This is an obituary for Tbaba's credibility when he failed to defend his Koran from being accused of being unfair to women by less marriage rights and beatings.

Here is the thread that exposes Tbaba;
https://www.nairaland.com/914444/abandoned-religion-god-today-im/25#10662851 (Starting from my comment)

logicboy:

2)Concerning the equal rights of women, I had a muslim girlfriend whom I could not marry or even allow her family or friends know that I am not a muslim because of the Koran- yet my muslim butchers from Pakistan toast my christian sisters from Nigeria with no backlash from muslim customers. Is that fair?

How do you expect me to ever love islam/the koran when the only girl that loved me is banned from marrying me because of my atheism? Do you think that I will ever find Islam tolerant to non-muslims?

Furthermore, why should a husband beat tap his wife? You expect to beleive that the translation of the arabic word in that context means "tap lightly". How does tapping lightly stop a disobedient wife? Even if we agree that its translation is "tap" (since your knowledge of Arabic/koran is clearly better than mine), why should you touch your wife when you are having disagreements?


Also, as for women in power, how do you expect your American women, who are very independent react when they are told that their place is secondary to men? Why cant a woman lead prayers?

tbaba1234:


The Quran came, at a time when the arab men will beat their wives at the slightest provocation. A ruling comes that essentially stops them from beating their wives and limit any hostile touch to a light hit/tap that leaves no mark.

tbaba1234:


Everyone will agree on the point that you do not leave any marks on your wife or strike her on the face.

Pastor AIO: So the only thing wrong with physical violence is if you leave a mark.

hmmm . . .

Mazaje, koran is just a text allow everybody to translate it the way they want. If tBaba is a violent person he will use the koran to justify his violence. If he is not a violent person he will use the koran to justify his non-violence. The Koran in and of itself does not change anything.

Please, use this opportunity to write your condolences here.

If I respond unfavourably, I would will condemned as being disrespectful to Islam. And Islam doesn't like criticism. That's why the Kuwaiti parliament being all muslims, passed a law punishing blasphemy with the death penalty. Why? Because Islam is too "peace"

Kay 17: If I respond unfavourably, I would will condemned as being disrespectful to Islam. And Islam doesn't like criticism. That's why the Kuwaiti parliament being all muslims, passed a law punishing blasphemy with the death penalty. Why? Because Islam is too "peace"

Islam has a a problem dealing with apostacy and criticism. Blasphemy laws are unfair

Right.
We must recognize that while they beat women on the face, at least not leave marks ...
This is indefensible ...
I invite all Muslims to hit women helpless to do so with a man ...
I can assure you that none of them has the guts to do.
A religion of prehistory.

I never knew Tbaba is the founder of a religion.what is the name of Tbaba's religion that have come to an end?

as for the "wife beating",there is nothing as such.

1.) The Quran goes against harming women

2.) Hadiths of the Prophet (sa) and the holy Imams of the Ahlul-Bayt (as) oppose "wife beating".

3.) Verse 4:34 is mistranslated and saying the Quran supports "wife beating" goes against the Quranic logic which suggests reconcilation rather than divorce between the couple.

in my subsequent post,i'd present the details.

LagosShia: I never knew Tbaba is the founder of a religion.what is the name of Tbaba's religion that have come to an end?

as for the "wife beating",there is nothing as such.

1.) The Quran goes against harming women

2.) Hadiths of the Prophet (sa) and the holy Imams of the Ahlul-Bayt (as) oppose "wife beating".

3.) Verse 4:34 is mistranslated and saying the Quran supports "wife beating" goes against the Quranic logic which suggests reconcilation rather than divorce between the couple.

in my subsequent post,i'd present the details.

This film cost him his life who filmed it.
http://loquenodije.lacoctelera.net/post/2007/12/02/un-cortometraje-sobre-violencia-contra-mujer-y-islam-


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mr6VHfsczLU


As hitting a woman in Islam - Rules


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_niR-KbiQ_s


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2w1imoTZeiQ&feature=related


Best regards!

Hmmm. . . Incriminating BUT they are not real muslims. Besides you might get banned soon for not saying good things about Islam.

Kay 17: Hmmm. . . Incriminating BUT they are not real muslims. Besides you might get banned soon for not saying good things about Islam.

lol....I hope that I dont get banned though

Ptolomeus:

This film cost him his life who filmed it.
http://loquenodije.lacoctelera.net/post/2007/12/02/un-cortometraje-sobre-violencia-contra-mujer-y-islam-


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mr6VHfsczLU


As hitting a woman in Islam - Rules


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_niR-KbiQ_s


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2w1imoTZeiQ&feature=related


Best regards!

Do you live in Nigeria? Or you're in South America? I would love to speak spanish/portuguese

Holy Quran 2:231
"And when you divorce women and they have [nearly] fulfilled their term, either retain them according to acceptable terms or release them according to acceptable terms, and do not keep them, [u]intending harm, to transgress [against them]. [/u]And whoever does that has certainly wronged himself. And do not take the verses of Allah in jest. And remember the favor of Allah upon you and what has been revealed to you of the Book and wisdom by which He instructs you. And fear Allah and know that Allah is Knowing of all things".

Holy Quran 30:21
"And of His signs is that He created for you from yourselves mates that you may find tranquillity in them; and He placed between you affection and mercy. Indeed in that are signs for a people who give thought".

Sayings of the Prophet Muhammad (sa) against "wife beating":

1.) "Can you expect to hug your wife at night, having beaten her in the day time?"

2.) "I wonder about a man who beats his wife, while he himself deserves to be beaten more".

3.) "Could any of you beat his wife as he would beat a slave, and then lie with her in the evening?"

4.) "How does anyone of you beat his wife as he beats the stallion camel and then embrace (sleep with) her?” (Al-Bukhari, English Translation, vol. 8, Hadith 68, pp. 42-43)

5.) " Do not beat Allah's handmaidens".

6.) "Those men who beat their wives are not the best among you".

1- Wife beating is not allowed in Islam!
Wife beating anytime and for any reason is never allowed in Islam. There is however a questionable condition where Allah Almighty seems to allow the husband to beat his wife, and that is after he gives her two warnings to stop showing ill-conduct and disloyalty.

Before we start, I'd like to first say that because Arabic is a complex language, and because Allah Almighty purposely and carefully chose certain words to be placed in certain Noble Verses, I strongly believe that Allah Almighty allowed for the interpretation of NOT beating wives to be valid. In other words, a Muslim man would not be going against Allah Almighty's Divine Will if he doesn't beat his wife, and instead, deserts her by leaving the house and living for instance with his parents for a period of time until the disobedient wife comes back to her senses, which would be as equivalent as the first interpretation, since the end result is the same, which is to discipline the bad wife and to get her back on the Right Path of what makes GOD Almighty satisfied with her.

Let us look at Noble Verses 4:34-36 "(34). Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).

(35). If ye fear a breach between them twain, appoint (two) arbiters, one from his family, and the other from hers; if they wish for peace, Allah will cause their reconciliation: For Allah hath full knowledge, and is acquainted with all things.

(36). Serve Allah, and join not any partners with Him; and do good- to parents, kinsfolk, orphans, those in need, neighbours who are near, neighbours who are strangers, the companion by your side, the wayfarer (ye meet), and what your right hands possess: For Allah loveth not the arrogant, the vainglorious;"

The Arabic word used in Noble Verse 4:34 above is "idribuhunna", which is derived from "daraba" which means "beat". The thing with all of the Arabic words that are derived from the word "daraba" is that they don't necessarily mean "hit". The word "idribuhunna" for instance, could very well mean to "leave" them. It is exactly like telling someone to "beat it" or "drop it" in English.

Allah Almighty used the word "daraba" in Noble Verse 14:24 "Seest thou not how Allah sets (daraba) forth a parable? -- A goodly Word Like a goodly tree, Whose root is firmly fixed, And its branches (reach) To the heavens". "daraba" here meant "give an example". If I say in Arabic "daraba laka mathal", it means "give you an example".

Allah Almighty also used the word "darabtum", which is derived from the word "daraba" in Noble Verse 4:94, which mean to "go abroad" in the sake of Allah Almighty:

"O ye who believe! When ye go abroad (darabtum) In the cause of Allah, Investigate carefully, And say not to anyone Who offers you a salutation: 'Thou art none of a Believer!' Coveting the perishable good Of this life: with Allah Are profits and spoils abundant. Even thus were ye yourselves Before, till Allah conferred On you His favours: therefore Carefully investigate. For Allah is well aware Of all that ye do. (The Noble Quran, 4:94)"

So "daraba" literally means "beat", or "go abroad", or "give" but not in the sense to give something by hand, but rather to give or provide an example.

Important Note: Notice how Allah Almighty in Noble Chapter (Surah) 4 He used "daraba (4:34" and "darabtum (4:94)", which are both derived from the same root. He used both words in the same Chapter, which tells me that "daraba" in Noble Verse 4:34 means to desert or leave, since that's what its derived word meant in Noble Verse 4:94. The next section below will further prove my point.

I am sure there are more Noble Verses that used words derived from "daraba" in the Noble Quran, but these are the only ones I know of so far. In the case of Noble Verse 4:34 where Allah Almighty seems to allow men to hit their wives after the two warnings for ill-conduct and disloyalty, it could very well be that Allah Almighty meant to command the Muslims to "leave" the home all together and desert their wives for a long time in a hope that the wives would then come back to their senses and repent.



2- Noble Verses and Sayings that support the prohibition of any type of wife beating:
The following Noble Verses and Sayings from the Noble Quran and Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him respectively seem to very well support the above interpretation:

"...Do not retain them (i.e., your wives) to harm them...(The Noble Quran, 2:231)"

"If a wife fears cruelty or desertion on her husband's part, there is no blame on them if they arrange an amicable settlement between themselves; and such settlement is best; even though men's souls are swayed by greed. But if ye do good and practise self-restraint, God is well-acquainted with all that ye do. (The Noble Quran, 4:128)"

Narrated Mu'awiyah al-Qushayri: "I went to the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) and asked him: What do you say (command) about our wives? He replied: Give them food what you have for yourself, and clothe them by which you clothe yourself, and do not beat them, and do not revile them. (Sunan Abu-Dawud, Book 11, Marriage (Kitab Al-Nikah), Number 2139)"

Narrated Mu'awiyah ibn Haydah: "I said: Apostle of Allah, how should we approach our wives and how should we leave them? He replied: Approach your tilth when or how you will, give her (your wife) food when you take food, clothe when you clothe yourself, do not revile her face, and do not beat her. (Sunan Abu-Dawud, Book 11, Marriage (Kitab Al-Nikah), Number 2138)"

Abu Huraira (Allah be pleased with him) reported Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) as saying: "He who believes in Allah and the Hereafter, if he witnesses any matter he should talk in good terms about it or keep quiet. Act kindly towards woman, for woman is created from a rib, and the most crooked part of the rib is its top. If you attempt to straighten it, you will break it, and if you leave it, its crookedness will remain there. So act kindly towards women. (Translation of Sahih Muslim, The Book of Marriage (Kitab Al-Nikah), Book 008, Number 3468)"

"O ye who believe! Ye are forbidden to inherit women against their will. Nor should ye treat them with harshness, that ye may take away part of the dower [money given by the husband to the wife for the marriage contract] ye have given them, except where they have been guilty of open lewdness; on the contrary live with them on a footing of kindness and equity. If ye take a dislike to them it may be that ye dislike a thing, and God brings about through it a great deal of good. (The Noble Quran, 4:19)"

"And among God's signs is this: He created for you mates from amongst yourselves (males as mates for females and vice versa) that you might find tranquillity and peace in them. And he has put love and kindness among you. Herein surely are signs for those who reflect. (The Noble Quran 30:21)"

"Women impure for men impure. And women of purity for men of purity. These are not affected by what people say. For them is forgiveness and an honorable provision. (The Noble Quran 24:26)"

Narrated Abu Huraira: "Allah's Apostle said, 'The strong is not the one who overcomes the people by his strength, but the strong is the one who controls himself while in anger. (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Good Manners and Form (Al-Adab), Volume 8, Book 73, Number 135)"

Narrated Abu Huraira: "A man said to the Prophet , 'Advise me! 'The Prophet said, 'Do not become angry and furious.' The man asked (the same) again and again, and the Prophet said in each case, 'Do not become angry and furious.' (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Good Manners and Form (Al-Adab), Volume 8, Book 73, Number 137)"

Abu Huraira reported: "I heard Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: One is not strong because of one's wrestling skillfully. They said: Allah's Messenger, then who is strong? He said: He who controls his anger when he is in a fit of rage. (Translation of Sahih Muslim, The Book of Virtue, Good Manners and Joining of the Ties of Relationship (Kitab Al-Birr was-Salat-I-wa'l-Adab), Book 032, Number 6314)"

Allah Almighty loves those who restrain anger: "Those who spend (freely), whether in prosperity, or in adversity; who restrain anger, and pardon (all) men; for Allah loves those who do good. (The Noble Quran, 3:134)"


3- The Prophet forbade striking on the face:
Let us look at the following narrations about Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him:

Narrated Salim: "....Umar said: 'The Prophet forbade beating on the face.' (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Hunting, Slaughtering, Volume 7, Book 67, Number 449)"

Narrated AbuHurayrah: "The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: When one of you inflicts a beating, he should avoid striking the face. (Sunan Abu-Dawud, Book 38, Prescribed Punishments (Kitab Al-Hudud), Number 4478)"

These narrations do not prove the interpretation that wife beating being ok as long as it is not done on the face, because the narrations are general and do not mention any wives. The striking could be done on our children when we discipline them. In this case, the above two narrations would fit perfectly with the situation, because while we can still physically discipline our children, we are not allowed to hit them on the face.



4- What about the saying about striking the wife lightly on her hand with a siwak?
There is not a single Saying or Noble Verse from Prophet Muhammad or the Noble Quran respectively that mentions any such beating.

A siwak is a small piece of wood that is approximately twice as long as an index finger and as thick as a thumb, which was used 1400 years ago to brush the teeth and the bad breath.

This saying actually belongs to Imam Shafie, and not to Prophet Muhammad. Imam Shafie or Minister Shafie is a popular Muslim scholar that came 100s of years after Prophet Muhammad. I used to have the reference information to his saying about this subject, but unfortunately I lost it. When I find it insha'Allah (if Allah Almighty wills it) I will post it.


5- More proofs about the translation of Noble Verse 4:34:
The following is an email that sent to me by brother A. Tilling; may Allah Almighty always be pleased with him.

From: ARJTilling@aol.com
To: ISLM4EVR1@aol.com
Subj: Another Reply to Mr O Abdallah
Date: 3/28/02 3:16:15 AM Central Standard Time

Peace,

I have visited the link and it was what I expected. But the question I am asking is a linguistic one, not one based on interpretations and jurisprudence. Here again is the extract I provided:

>>>>>>>
(4:34) [...]as for those women on whose part ye fear rebellion (nushuz), admonish them and banish them to beds apart, (and last) beat (adriboo) them. Then, if they obey you, seek not a way against them.

Note from me Osama Abdallah: Actually the Arabic word is not "adriboo" which is a plural for beating men. It is "idribuhunna" which is a plural for beating women. But the two Arabic words mean the same thing, which is "beating".

Continuing with brother A. Tilling email....

The key to the problem is the mistranslation of the two key words nushuz and adriboo. Some of the possible meanings for both the words, according to the lexicon,3 are given below. Again, the appropriate meaning will depend on the context of the verse.

Nushuz: Animosity, hostility, rebellion, ill-treatment, discord; violation of marital duties on the part of either husband or wife.

Adriboo (root: daraba): to beat, to strike, to hit, to separate, to part.

In the context of the above verse the most appropriate meaning for nushuz is 'marital discord' (ill-will, animosity etc), and for adriboo is 'to separate' or 'to part'. Otherwise, it is inviting the likelihood of a divorce without any reconciliation procedure. Such a step would blatantly contravene the Qur'anic guidance shown in verse 4:35 below. Therefore, a more accurate and consistent translation of the above verse would be:

(4:34) [...]as for those women whose animosity or ill-will you have reason to fear, then leave them alone in bed, and then separate; and if thereupon they pay you heed, do not seek a way against them.

The separation could be temporary or permanent depending on the reconciliation procedure. Such as construction is legitimate within the terms of the language and fits in very well with the divorce procedure outlined in the Qur'an (see 8.5).

The verse following the above verse gives further weight to the above translation.

(4:35) And if ye fear a breach between them twain (the man and the wife), appoint an arbiter from his folk and an arbiter from her folk. If they desire amendment Allah will make them of one mind. Lo! Allah is ever Knower, Aware.

Added weight to the meanings outlined above is given by verse 4:128 quoted below. Here, in the case of a man, the same word nushuz is used, but it is rendered as 'ill-treatment' as against 'rebellion' in the case of a woman as shown earlier in the traditional translation of verse 4:34. One find oneself asking whether since the ill-treatment is on the part of the husband, a process of reconciliation is here to be encouraged!

(4:128) If a wife fears ill-treatment (nushuz) or desertion on her husband's part, there is no blame on them if they arrange an amicable settlement between themselves; and such settlement is best[...]

This, obviously, is a double standard and the only way to reconcile the meanings of the two verses, in the contexts they are being used, is to accept the meaning of adriboo as: 'to separate' or to 'part'. In this connection I would like to refer the reader to an excellent article by Rachael Tibbet from which I quote:

(a) Qur'anic commentators and translators experience problems with the term Adribu in the Qur'an not just in this verse but in others, as it is used in different contexts in ways which appear ambiguous and open to widely different translations into English. 'Daraba' can be translated in more than a hundred different ways.

(b) The translation of adribu as 'to strike' in this particular verse (4:34) is founded upon nothing more than:

(i) The authority of hadiths (Abu Daud 2141 and Mishkat Al-Masabih 0276) that this is what Adribu means in this context.

(ii) The prejudices and environment of the early commentators of the Qur'an which led them to assume that 'to strike', given the overall context of the verse, was the most likely interpretation of the many possible interpretations of adribu.
>>>>>>>>>

Thanks
A Tilling



6- Conclusion:
According to the Noble Quran and the Sayings of Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him above, wife beating in Islam is definetly prohibited, possibly even in the case where the wife fails after she was warned twice for her ill-conduct and disloyalty.

It is definetly a valid interpretation for Noble Verse 4:34 that Allah Almighty commanded the Muslim men to desert and leave their wives, and not to physically beat them as many scholars believe.

I personally favor this non-violent interpretation, because (1) It is very well supported in Islam as clearly and unquestionably shown above; and (2) It makes more sense and seems more practical in dealing with the bad wife who insists on showing ill-conduct and disloyalty toward her husband and family.

And Allah Almighty knows best, and may He forgive me if I made any mistake here.

http://www.answering-christianity.com/beating_no.htm

LagosShia: Sayings of the Prophet Muhammad (sa) against "wife beating":

1.) "Can you expect to hug your wife at night, having beaten her in the day time?"

2.) "I wonder about a man who beats his wife, while he himself deserves to be beaten more".

3.) "Could any of you beat his wife as he would beat a slave, and then lie with her in the evening?"

4.) "How does anyone of you beat his wife as he beats the stallion camel and then embrace (sleep with) her?” (Al-Bukhari, English Translation, vol. 8, Hadith 68, pp. 42-43)

5.) " Do not beat Allah's handmaidens".

6.) "Those men who beat their wives are not the best among you".

Sorry, I am a strict Koranist and this is the verse that appalls me;

Men have authority over women because God has made the one superior to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient. They guard their unseen parts because God has guarded them. As for those whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and send them to beds apart and beat them. Then if they obey you, take no further action against them. Surely God is most high Koran 4;34

other threads with the topic already discussed-please review:

https://www.nairaland.com/817561/devine-permition-beat-hit-ur

https://www.nairaland.com/545232/wife-beating-rules-muslims-take

LagosShia: I never knew Tbaba is the founder of a religion.what is the name of Tbaba's religion that have come to an end?

as for the "wife beating",there is nothing as such.

1.) The Quran goes against harming women

2.) Hadiths of the Prophet (sa) and the holy Imams of the Ahlul-Bayt (as) oppose "wife beating".

3.) Verse 4:34 is mistranslated and saying the Quran supports "wife beating" goes against the Quranic logic which suggests reconcilation rather than divorce between the couple.

in my subsequent post,i'd present the details.

Verse 4;34 is not mistranslated, it clearly means "beat" because it is the only action/word that fits into the scenario. What is the effect of "tapping lightly" a disobedient wife?

LagosShia: other threads with the topic already discussed-please review:

https://www.nairaland.com/817561/devine-permition-beat-hit-ur

https://www.nairaland.com/545232/wife-beating-rules-muslims-take

Please dont make the same mistake that Tbaba made, that I havent read the Koran

logicboy:


Sorry, I am a strict Koranist and this is the verse that appalls me;

Men have authority over women because God has made the one superior to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient. They guard their unseen parts because God has guarded them. As for those whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and send them to beds apart and beat them. Then if they obey you, take no further action against them. Surely God is most high Koran 4;34

the translation you presented is wrong in more than one way.the verse says in the beginning:"men are maintainers of women" and does not describe men being "superior".also,the verse contains a word that could mean to "separate" instead of "to beat".going by the Quran alone,in the same chapter 4,the same word is used without need of translation to indicate "separation" (see verse 4:94).moreover,the verse itself and also in 2:231 present ways for a couple to reconcile instead of being in disagreement,quarrel or divorce.so it is illogical that reconcilation which is the spirit of the verse could be achieved by suggesting beating.

c

logicboy:

Verse 4;34 is not mistranslated, it clearly means "beat" because it is the only action/word that fits into the scenario. What is the effect of "tapping lightly" a disobedient wife?

i am telling you it can also mean something else other than "beating" and you are acting stupid by asking me about "effect".those hadiths that talk about "tapping lightly" or using a "toothbrush" and "avoiding the face" are ridiculous because there is no effect.in the spirit of the Quranic verse and other translations of the word,it is only logical to believe that the verse is presenting separation as an option and not physical measure (beating).

LagosShia:

the translation you presented is wrong in more than one way.the verse says in the beginning:"men are maintainers of women" and does not describe men being "superior".also,the verse contains a word that could mean to "separate" instead of "to beat".going by the Quran alone,in the same chapter 4,the same word is used without need of translation to indicate "separation" (see verse 4:94).moreover,the verse itself and also in 2:231 present ways for a couple to reconcile instead of being in disagreement,quarrel or divorce.so it is illogical that reconcilation which is the spirit of the verse could be achieved by suggesting beating.

Is there any difference between "maintainers" or "superior". I am not a maintainer of my girlfriend neither her superior.

As for Daba in Koran 4;34, it clearly means "beat"

http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/ArabChristian30907.htm

Lol!!

tbaba1234: Lol!!

Not surprising.

Maybe you should have read his signature

not a scholar or a preacher; Just a regular dude, who makes mistakes too

You just wanted to start a new thread abi!!

All your points were addressed: you fail to quote a large portion of what i said.

Islam proposes equity between the sexes not equality because we hold the view that men and women are fundamentally different. Physically, emotionally and in many other ways.

However, they will be judged each one according to their actions and no one will be wrong.

You do not have to like the laws; We are not a liberal community.

We do not batter our women, it is prohibited to leave marks on the body of your wife or strike her on the face.

This is agreed upon by all muslims. You guys like to tell us what the Quran says without even understanding Arabic.

You must be a newscaster with these sensational headlines and incredibly shallow contents.

tbaba1234: You just wanted to start a new thread abi!!

All your points were addressed: you fail to quote a large portion of what i said.

Islam proposes equity between the sexes not equality because we hold the view that men and women are fundamentally different. Physically, emotionally and in many other ways.

However, they will be judged each one according to their actions and no one will be wrong.

You do not have to like the laws; We are not a liberal community.

We do not batter our women, it is prohibited to leave marks on the body of your wife or strike her on the face.

This is agreed upon by all muslims. You guys like to tell us what the Quran says without even understanding Arabic.

You must be a newscaster with these sensational headlines and incredibly shallow contents.

1) The ran clearly allows you to hit your wife. What difference does it make in an assault case if you hit her on the face or didnt leave a mark. Furthermore, most of the English translations put the translation of daba in the verse as "beat". It's only modern apologists that replace it with commentary and euphemisms to make it look good. http://www.faithfreedom.org/articles/women-in-islam/wife-beating-in-islam/

2) You talk about equity between women and men. How is it fair that a woman has less marriage rights than men? Is that what you call equity? That my girlfriend can not get married to me just because she is a woman and I am not muslim? Is that fair in your eyes? Or are you blinded by faith? What is your Korans business with me and my mulsim girlfriend?

3)It's even good that I do not understand Arabic because it clearly alerts me of the failure of the Koran. I can read the bible in English, Yoruba or French without knowing Hebrew or Greek or Aramaic.

4) Even if do not understand Arabic, there are muslim scholars who have their translations and are well respected. If you are not happy with the way most of them translated it, you dont have to like it- like you said, Islam is conservative, you dont have to like it's laws.


Boom. Destroyed your arguent again. Am I too much.


BTW, yes, I wanted to be a newscaster

@logic mind...please what's wrong with men or husbands superior to women?


Is that not nature my freind??

Been superior doesn't mean d men shuld beat d women but that they have greater authority than women do...

@LagosShia
You had to write, and then quote, volumes to attempt to explain that small verse of a few lines! Anyway,

1. Are you, a serious Shi'ite, seriously quoting the Hadiths as a response to a serious enquiry?

2. What was your response to someone who quoted the Hadiths in Nairaland to show Mohammed believed Adam was 90 foot tall?

3. Are you quoting a Hadith to counter something stated in the Quran?

Thank you.

MyJoe: @LagosShia
You had to write, and then quote, volumes to attempt to explain that small verse of a few lines! Anyway,

yes i had to,to make sure i present all the arguments with answers.i presented verses from the Quran,hadiths and then commentary of the Quranic verse.is anything wrong with that at all?

1. Are you, a serious Shi'ite, seriously quoting the Hadiths as a response to a serious enquiry?

Shia do accept hadiths after scrutiny to confirm authenticity.yes i am Shia.

2. What was your response to someone who quoted the Hadiths in Nairaland to show Mohammed believed Adam was 90 foot tall?

not all hadiths are acceptable and every muslim will admit to that be he a sunni or shia.if all hadiths are sound and acceptable,our scholars would not have had to develop a grading system for hadith and methodology to distinguish between what hadith is "sahih" and what is not.

3. Are you quoting a Hadith to counter something stated in the Quran?

i did not do that.the hadiths i quoted are in line with the Quran.if any hadith contradicts the Quran,the hadith is rejected.

Thank you.

welcome.

ijawkid: @logic mind...please what's wrong with men or husbands superior to women?


Is that not nature my freind??

Been superior doesn't mean d men shuld beat d women but that they have greater authority than women do...

This is why Nigeria is a backwards country.

Female babies survive better than males. Is that not natural?

Women have more lower body strength and men have stronger upper body strength. Women are more flexible than men.


Tell me what is means to be naturally superior?



Women deserve equal rights

ijawkid: @logic mind...please what's wrong with men or husbands superior to women?


Is that not nature my freind??

Been superior doesn't mean d men shuld beat d women but that they have greater authority than women do...

Logic Mind is an old man....I'm logicboy

logicboy:

1) The ran clearly allows you to hit your wife. What difference does it make in an assault case if you hit her on the face or didnt leave a mark. Furthermore, most of the English translations put the translation of daba in the verse as "beat". It's only modern apologists that replace it with commentary and euphemisms to make it look good. http://www.faithfreedom.org/articles/women-in-islam/wife-beating-in-islam/

2) You talk about equity between women and men. How is it fair that a woman has less marriage rights than men? Is that what you call equity? That my girlfriend can not get married to me just because she is a woman and I am not muslim? Is that fair in your eyes? Or are you blinded by faith? What is your Korans business with me and my mulsim girlfriend?

3)It's even good that I do not understand Arabic because it clearly alerts me of the failure of the Koran. I can read the bible in English, Yoruba or French without knowing Hebrew or Greek or Aramaic.

4) Even if do not understand Arabic, there are muslim scholars who have their translations and are well respected. If you are not happy with the way most of them translated it, you dont have to like it- like you said, Islam is conservative, you dont have to like it's laws.


Boom. Destroyed your arguent again. Am I too much.

Destroyed what argument

1. first of all, Faithfreedom is hardly a site for authentic islamic information.
Even translations that use "beat" as the translation of daraba always put "lightly" in the parenthesis to show the correct application of the word, you can NOT cause physical harm to your wife. Ofcourse, you fail to acknowledge that. You also fail to acknowledge that the Quran does not promote a reactionary response to the actions of the wife but details steps that must be taken before touching your wife and when it does, It only allows a light response.

The point is straightforward, you will not find any ancient muslim scholar that promotes spousal abuse. Ibn kathir, Ibn abbass It is not a modernist idea that muslim should not hurt their wives. So whether it is translated as a light "hit" or a gentle "tap". It does not mean start throwing punches at your wife.


2.) Again you look at one angle... As a man i can argue that the fact that all the financial responsibilty of the household rests on me is unfair. Remember what ever a muslim woman earns belongs to her alone and she can spend it on her parents, herself, her friends whatever... She is not compelled to contribute a dime to the house.

Not only do i have to take care of my home, i am responsible for my mother and sisters that are unmarried if there is no other man.

A muslim woman does not pray in her menses but gets the reward of one who does>>> That must be unfair tooo....

The fact is simple, a non-muslim man does not guarantee the rights of a muslim woman.

A muslim man has the religious obligation to fulfill those rights.

3.The existence of the Quran in Arabic is actually the proof of its divine origins... Understanding the deep meaning and miracles of the Quran is essential. Translations are shallow at best. So even if i read the translation, i have the arabic reference to show what it really means in the language of the prophet it was revealed to.

On the other hand, old testament manuscripts are in Hebrew, Moses did not speak hebrew

New testament in greek, Jesus spoke aramaic::

A lot of essence is lost in the translation of these books and a lot of interpolation have taken place as a result..

So the Quran in Arabic is one of its biggest strengths.

4.Every translator can only capture some part of the meaning of the word not its full meaning: That is why a reference to the original is vital.

Stop being a child... these your shallow points make you scream boom...

Islam has answers to all the questions and you do not have to like it....

logicboy:

This is why Nigeria is a backwards country.

Female babies survive better than males. Is that not natural?

Women have more lower body strength and men have stronger upper body strength. Women are more flexible than men.


Tell me what is means to be naturally superior?



Women deserve equal rights

the verse says that men are maintainers of women because of what Allah has given one over the other.islamically,it is the duty of the man to maintain trhe family through providing sustenance.the woman has no responsibility to work or provide feeding or clothing or shelter.there is no where based on that that the verse says men are "superior" as you want to make it sound.

now let me go a step further and accept for argument's sake that men are allowed to literally strike or beat their wives only on one condition and after two other steps presented as measures to be taken fail and ofcourse if the man still has interest in living with that woman after he misconduct.the verse clearly puts a condition that the man can strike the wife if she is doing an indescent act of shame or misconduct.and even if she is,he can only raise his hand to beat her after two measures are taken without effect.the man must first warn her verbally and then he separates bed with her avoiding intimacy.yet still in this situation,the verse is proposing settlement and reconciliation rather than divorce,an option not given.the verse still sees the hope of salvaging the marriage and bringing the strayed party to sense.the verse doesn't suggest the man kicking the woman out of his house and separating her from her children.the verse suggests three calculated steps that should be taken.now you as a non-muslim man,what would you do if you find your wife with another man in a compromising situation? are you going to first tell her:"honey,please stop this thing you are doing.i dont like it".then you find her in that situation again and come home to separate rooms with her and avoid intimacy.and lastly you find her in the same situation for the third time and you finally give her a hot slap.are those the steps you as a non-muslim man would take? what would you do? would you take those steps given in the Quran or would you beat the hell out of her and send her to her father's house disgracing her? which proposition is more merciful to the woman,in giving her chances to warn her and saving her image and marriage by not divorcing her or directly dealing with her severely and absolving the marriage? or would you just be talking and talking while she refuses to heed your warning? will you accept living with her? how many non-muslim men have battered their wives?were they following Islam?i dont think so!!! if the man afterall does not want to continue living with her,or if she no longer wants to fulfill her own part in the marriage as a contract between two people,then there is easily the option of divorce.ofcourse,if i am to repeat yet again,the verse is suggesting ways for positive change to reconcile two people than proposing separation as a direct order.

muslim coming back to this section like rats.
what's wrong with your islam for muslims only section?