^^^So you are one of those i detected earlier hiding outside the thread? Please feel free to contribute. But really, the level of unbelief of some people on this thread is amazing.

^^^^ No these days I just try to respect the creator's will by not infringing on other peoples freewill. Those who seek the truth will find it. You shouldn't infringe on others freewill by feeding them the truth. Some peoples will is to remain in the dark you have to accept that. They will find their way when they ready ..When the student is ready the master always will be there..

@great genius,you are living up to your name as a great genius because even on wikipedia,there is a page where you can trace the present queen of england,the present king of spain and the present prince of monaco,all the way down to emperor constantine the great.

^^^ I know what you mean and you are right those royal lineages go all the way back. But I used " family" and meant it in a different light and context in my original post...

When I told people that the Illuminati never died after the Bavarian suppression,because it spread to other parts of Europe,they never believed me,well here is a copy of a 1919 document proving that truly,the illuminati had successfully incorporated themselves in all other societies and now they are all one!!!
Liber LII
Manifesto of the O.T.O.
Issued by Order:
BAPHOMET XI° O.T.O.,
HIBERNIAE IONAE ET OMNIUM BRITANNIARUM,
REX SUMMUS SANCTISSIMUS

Peace, Tolerance, Truth;
Salutation on All Points of the Triangle;
Respect To the Order.

To All Whom It May Concern: Greeting and Health.

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

1. The O.T.O. is a body of initiates in whose hands are concentrated the wisdom and the knowledge of the following bodies:

The Gnostic Catholic Church.
The Order of the Knights of the Holy Ghost.
The Order of the Illuminati.
The Order of the Temple (Knights Templar).
The Order of the Knights of St. John.
The Order of the Knights of Malta.
The Order of the Knights of the Holy Sepulchre.
The Hidden Church of the Holy Graal.
The Hermetic Brotherhood of Light.
The Holy Order of Rose Croix of Heredom.
The Order of the Holy Royal Arch of Enoch.
The Antient and Primitive Rite of Masonry (33 degrees).
The Rite of Memphis (97 degrees).
The Rite of Mizraim (90 degrees).
The Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Masonry (33 degrees).
The Swedenborgian Rite of Masonry.
The Order of the Martinists.
The Order of the Sat Bhai, and many other orders of equal merit, if of less fame.

It does not include the A.·.A.·., with which august body it is, however, in close alliance.

It does not in any way infringe the just privileges of duly authorized Masonic Bodies.

2. The dispersion of the original secret wisdom having led to confusion, it was determined by the Chiefs of all these Orders to recombine and centralize their activities, even as white light, divided in a prism, may be recomposed.

It embodies the whole of the secret knowledge of all Oriental Orders; and its chiefs are initiates of the highest rank, and recognized as such by all capable of such recognition in every country in the world.

In more remote times, the constituent originating assemblies of the O.T.O. included such men as:
Fohi Hippolytus
Laotze Merlin
Siddartha Arthur
Krishna Titurel
Tahuti Amfortas
Ankh-f-n-khonsu Percivale
Herakles Mosheh
Orpheus Odysseus
Vergilius Mohammed
Catullus Hermes
Martialis Pan
Apollonius Tyanaeus Dante
Simon Magus Carolus Magnus
Manes William of Schyren
Basilides Frederick of Hohenstaufen
Valentinus Roger Bacon
Bardesanes Jacobus Burgundus Molensis
King Wu Ko Hsuen
Christian Rosenkreutz Osiris
Ulrich von Hutten Melchizedek
Paracelsus Khem
Michael Maier Menthu
Jakob Boehme Johannes Dee
Francis Bacon Sir Edward Kelly
Andrea Thos. Vaughan
Robertus de Fluctibus Elias Ashmole
Chau Comte de Chazal
Saturnus Sigismund Bacstrom
Dionysus Molinos


And recently:
Wolfgang von Goethe Friedrich Nietzsche
Sir Richard Payne Knight Hargrave Jennings
Sir Richard Francis Burton Karl Kellner
Forlong Dux Eliphas Lévi
Ludovicus Rex Bavariae Franz Hartmann
Richard Wagner Cardinal Rampolla
Ludwig von Fischer Papus (Dr. Encausse)

The names of women members are never divulged.

It is not lawful here to disclose the name of any living chief.

It was Karl Kellner who revived the exoteric organization of the O.T.O. and initiated the plan now happily complete of bringing all occult bodies again under one governance.

The letters O.T.O. represent the words Ordo Templi Orientis (Order of the Temple of the Orient, or Oriental Templars), but they have also a secret meaning for initiates.

3. The Order is international, and has existing branches in every civilized country of the world.

4. The aims of the O.T.O. can only be understood fully by its highest initiates; but it may be said openly that it teaches Hermetic Science or Occult Knowledge, the Pure and Holy Magick of Light, the Secrets of Mystic attainment, Yoga of all forms, Gnana Yoga, Raja Yoga, Bhakta Yoga and Hatha Yoga, and all other branches of the secret Wisdom of the Ancients.

In its bosom repose the Great Mysteries; its brain has resolved all the problems of philosophy and of life.

It possesses the secret of the Stone of the Wise, of the Elixir of Immortality, and of the Universal Medicine.

Moreover, it possesses a Secret capable of realizing the world-old dream of the Brotherhood of Man.

It also possesses in every important centre of poÿulation a hidden Retreat (Collegium ad Spiritum Sanctum) where members may conceal themselves in order to pursue the Great Work without hindrance.

These houses are secret fortresses of Truth, Light, Power and Love, and their position is only disclosed under an oath of secrecy to those entitled to make use of them.

They are also temples of true worship, specially consecrated by Nature to bring out of a man all that is best in him.

5. The authority of the O.T.O. is concentrated in the O.H.O. (Outer Head of the Order), or Frater Superior. The name of the person occupying this office is never disclosed except to his immediate representatives.

6. The Authority of the O.H.O. in all English-speaking countries is delegated by charter to the Most Holy, Most Illustrious, Most Illuminated, and Most Puissant Baphomet X° Rex Summus Sanctissimus 33°, 90°, 96°, Past Grand Master of the United States of America, Grand Master of Ireland, Iona, and All the Britains, Grand Master of the Knights of the Holy Ghost, Sovereign Grand Commander of the Order of the Temple, Most Wise Sovereign of the Order of the Rosy Cross, Grand Zerubbabel of the Order of the Holy Royal Arch of Enoch, etc. etc. etc., National Grand Master General ad vitam of the O.T.O.

7. The National Grand Master General ad vitam is assisted by two principal officers, the Grand Treasurer General and the Grand Secretary General.

There are many other officers, but they do not concern those to whom the present manifesto is addressed.

8. The whole of the Knowledge dispersed among the bodies mentioned in paragraph 2 has been sifted and concentrated in the following degrees.

Oÿ Minerval
I° M.
II° M. .
III° M.·.
P.·.M.·.
IV° Companion of the Holy Royal Arch of Enoch.
Prince of Jerusalem.
Knight of the East and of the West.
V° Sovereign Prince of Rose Croix. (Knight of the Pelican and Eagle.)
Member of the Senate of Knight Hermetic Philosophers,
Knights of the Red Eagle.
VI° Illustrious Knight (Templar) of the Order of Kadosch, and Companion of
the Holy Graal.
Grand Inquisitor Commander, Member of the Grand Tribunal.
Prince of the Royal Secret.
VII° Very Illustrious Sovereign Grand Inspector General.
Member of the Supreme Grand Council.
VIII° Perfect Pontiff of the Illuminati.
IX° Initiate of the Sanctuary of the Gnosis.
X° Rex Summus Sanctissimus (Supreme and Most Holy King).

9. Every man and woman that is of full age, free, and of good report, has an indefeasible right to the III°.

Beyond this, admission is only granted by invitation from the governing body concerned.

The O.T.O., although an Academia Masonica, is not a Masonic Body so far as the 'secrets' are concerned in the sense in which that expression is usually understood; and therefore in no way conflicts with, or infringes the just privileges of, the United Grand Lodge of England, or any Grand Lodge in America or elsewhere which is recognized by it.

10. Application for admission to the Order may be made personally at headquarters, between the hours of Ten A.M. and Twelve Noon on week-days, or by letter to the Grand Secretary General. In the former case, applicants should be provided with the Twenty Dollars entitling them to the Third Degree; in the latter, it should be enclosed with the application.

The First Annual Subscription is payable on taking the Third Degree; if this is taken after June 30 in any year, only half the amount is due.

Subscriptions of old members are due on January 1, but the Brother is considered in good standing, and he does not lose his rights, if it is paid by March 1. Should he fail to discharge his obligation by this date, he ceases ipso facto to be a member of the Order, but may be reinstated on paying arrears and Five Dollars extra. If his lapse extend to the next year following, he can only be reinstated under special conditions, and by the express consent in writing of the National Grand Master General ad vitam.

11. The Constitution, Trust Deeds, Charters, Warrants and all other documents, are exhibited to candidates on their exaltation to the IV°, should they desire it.

12. Besides the free certificate of membership, special diplomas for framing are granted to all members at a uniform price of Ten Dollars. Special diplomas of the IX°, Twenty-five Dollars.

13. The privileges of members of the O.T.O. are very numerous. These are the principal:

They have not only access to, but instruction in, the whole body of hidden knowledge preserved in the Sanctuary from the beginning of its manifestation.

In the lower grades the final secrets are hinted and conveyed in symbol, beneath veil, and through sacrament.

In this way the intelligence of the initiate is called into play, so that he who well uses the knowledge of the lower grades may be selected for invitation to the higher, where all things are declared openly.
They become partakers of the current of Universal Life in Liberty, Beauty, Harmony, and Love which flames within the heart of the O.T.O., and the Light of that august fraternity insensibly illuminates them ever more and more as they approach its central Sun.
They meet those persons most complemental to their own natures, and find unexpected help and brotherhood in the whole world wherever they may travel.
They obtain the right to sojourn in the secret houses of the O.T.O., permanently or for a greater or lesser period of the year according to their rank in the Order; or, in the case of those of the Fifth and lower degrees, are candidates for invitation to these houses.
The Knowledge of the Preparation and Use of the Universal Medicine is restricted to members of the IX°; but it may be administered to members of the VIII° and VII° in special circumstances by favour of the National Grand Masters General, and even in particular emergency to members of lower degrees.
In the V° all members are pledged to bring immediate and perfect relief to all distress of mind, body, or estate, in which they may find any of their fellows of that degree. In the higher degrees the Bonds of Fraternity are still further strengthened. The Order thus affords a perfect system of insurance against every misfortune or accident of life.
Members of the IX° become part proprietors of the Estates and Goods of the Order, so that the attainment of this degree implies a return with interest of the fees and subscriptions paid.
The Order gives practical assistance in life to worthy members of even its lower degrees, so that, even if originally poor, they become well able to afford the comparatively high fees of the VII°, VIII°, and IX°. On exaltation to the IV° each Companion may file an account of his circumstances, and state in what direction he requires help.

14. In selecting members for advancement, attention is paid to their devotion to the Order, to their intelligence in apprehending the nature of its teaching, to their zeal in spreading the principles of the Order so far as they themselves understand them, though always with the discretion inseparable from the due guarding of the secrets, and to all those qualities of courage, honour, and virtue without which man is not worthy of that name.

15. The O.H.O. is only known to members of the VIII° and IX°.

The National Grand Master General ad vitam is not approachable as such by any person who has not reached the VI°.

All communications should be addressed to the Grand Secretary General, and all cheques drawn in favour of the Grand Treasurer General.

Issued by Order,

L. Bathurst IX°, Grand Secretary General

This is the link,.........................................www.sacred-texts.com/oto/lib52.htm

I also have the link on Freemasonry being overtaken by the Illuminati, an important goal: the infiltration of Freemasonry.
Infiltration of Freemasonry

In 1777, the year following the creation of the Illuminati, Weishaupt joined the Masonic lodge of Theodore of Good Counsel in Munich. Not only did he successfully propagate his views into the lodge, he also managed to get the lodge to be”virtually absorbed into the Illuminist order almost immediately”. 12

A definite alliance between the Illuminati and Freemasonry became possible in 1780 when a prominent figure by the name of Baron Adolf Franz Friederich Knigge was initiated into Weishaupt’s Order. The German diplomat’s Masonic connections and organizational skills were promptly put to use by the Order. Knigge would go on to accomplish two important tasks for the Illuminati: He revised the hierarchy of the Order, created new higher grades and allowed the full integration of Masonic lodges into the system.

This information is from www.secretarcana.com


The new method of spreading Illuminism by means of its affiliation with Masonic lodges promptly demonstrated its worth. Largely because of the fine strategy of seeking its recruits among the officers and other influential personages in the lodges of Freemasonry, one after another of the latter in quick succession went over to the new system. New prefectures were established, new provinces organized, and Provincials began to report a steady and copious stream of new recruits. (…) Students, merchants, doctors, pharmacists, lawyers, judges, professors in gymnasia and universities, preceptors, civil officers, pastors, priests — all were generously represented among the new recruits. Distinguished names soon appeared upon the rosters of the lodges of the new system. Duke Ferdinand of Brunswick, Duke Ernst of Gotha, Duke Karl August of Saxe-Weimar, Prince August of Saxe-Gotha, Prince Carl of Hesse, Baron Dalberg, the philosopher Herder, the poet Goethe, the educationist Pestalozzi, were among the number enrolled, By the end of 1784 the leaders boasted of a total enrollment of between two and three thousand members 106. and the establishment of the order upon a solid foundation seemed to be fully assured.” 15

The French Revolution

The violent overthrow of the French Monarchy in 1789 symbolizes to many the victory of Jacobinism and Illuminism over the traditional institutions of the time. The adoption of the Declaration of Human Rights officially recorded Masonic and Illuminist values into the core of the French government. The country’s new motto “Liberté, Égalité et Fraternité” (Freedom, Equality and Brotherhood) was said to be a famous Masonic saying that was used in French lodges for centuries.

The official document of the Declaration of Human Rights contains several occult symbols referring to Secret Societies. First, the symbol of the All Seeing Eye within a triangle, surrounded by the light of the blazing star Sirius, is found above everything else (this symbol is also found on the Great Seal of the United States). Underneath the title is depicted an Ouroboros (a serpent eating its own tail), an esoteric symbol associated with Alchemy, Gnosticism and Hermetism, the core teachings of Masonry. Right underneath the Ouroboros is a red phrygian cap, a symbol representing Illuminist revolutions across the world. The entire Declaration is guarded by Masonic pillars.
This is still from www.secretarcana.com

this the image of the declaration of the rites of man!!!

Propagation in America

Most of America’s Founding Fathers were part of Secret Societies, whether the Freemasons, the Rosicrucians or others. Some of them travelled to Europe and were well versed in the doctrines of the Illuminati.

From 1776 to 1785 – when the Bavarian Illuminati was openly active – Benjamin Franklin was in Paris serving as the ambassador of the United States to France. During his stay, he became Grand Master of the lodge Les Neufs Soeurs which was attached with the Grand Orient of France. This Masonic organization was said to have become the French headquarters of the Bavarian Illuminati. It was particularly influential in organizing of the French support for the American Revolution and was later part of the process towards the French Revolution.

In 1799, when German minister G.W. Snyder warned George Washington of the Illuminati plan “to overthrow all governments and religion”, Washington replied that he had heard “much of the nefarious and dangerous plan and doctrines of the Illuminati“. He however concluded his letter by stating: “I believe notwithstanding, that none of the Lodges in this country are contaminated with the principles ascribed to the society of Illuminati“.

This is still from www.secretarcana.com

Proof that the illuminati lives:This is the link https://sites.google.com/site/memphismizraimbg/o-c-i-


Fratres Lucis

Fratres Lucis (The Brotherhood of Light; Brothers of the Illuminated) is a schism of the masonic Order of the Rosy Cross. It was inspired by the Florence Order of the Brothers of Light, founded in 1498, as a secret continuation of the Platonic Academy of Marcelo Ficcino. After the death of Lorenzo de Medici, the Academy of Florence ceased to exist. In its place arose the Fratres Lucis, or Brothers of Light, a mystical fraternity founded in Florence in 1498 which continued in existence until the eighteenth century. Due to the tradition of intellectual brilliance associated with this institution, many groups have chosen to use the word "Academy" in their name.

Through the centuries, that order has changed its name a number of times: it was known by then as the "Brotherhood of the Illuminatti" (in a Christian sense). In 1882 was founded an order called "Grand Lamaistic Order of Light." The group also had a Latin name, "Fratres Lucis." However, they seemed to be largely inspired by Qabala and Masonry, while their altar was devoted to 'Great God,' an epithet favorite among Tibetan Buddhists. Also another Order of Light (Fratres Lucis), an occult body is founded in 1882 by the Jew, Maurice Vidal Portman. These Orders is not filiated to any iniciatic Order or Fraternity, even though they shares the high esoteric ideals, like those of the Rosecrucianism, Martinism and Freemasonry.

Fratres Lucis was designed to lead members from the darkness of sense-life into that Illumination of spiritual being which is our heritage. Emphasis was laid upon the Egyptianizing impulse exemplified by Kircher, the circulation of a Fratres Lucis-originated manuscript expounding initiatory and philosophical meanings. Among the members of this order were Pasqualis, Cagliostro, Swedenborg, St. Martin, Eliphaz Lévi, Franz Anton Mesmer, and many other eminent mystics. Its members were very much persecuted by the Inquisition. It is a small but compact body, the members being spread all over the world. A parallel tradition running through the eighteenth century Fratres Lucis and Asiatic Brethren on the one hand, and Cagliostro's Egyptian Rite of Freemasonry on the other. These fuse with primordial Egyptian traditions during the Napoleonic conquests in Egypt, passed on to Levi and other nineteenth century luminaries, down to Papus, Reuss, Kellner and, eventually, Aleister Crowley and his successors and heirs within OTO.

The Order is formed by iniciates from many Orders and Fraternities. Brooderhood of Light was founded in Germany by the baron Ecker Von Eckhoffen, a past member of the Golden Rosy+Cross and also founder of Asiatic Brethren (or Initiated Brethren of the Seven Cities in Asia). The Asiatic Brethren would become the Fratres Lucis, and the Fratres Lucis would be known as the real successor of the true Illuminati of Adam Weishaupt; and the Fratres Lucis would beget the Hermetic Brotherhood of Luxor, and the Hermetic Brotherhood of Luxor would beget Theosophical Society.

All these German fraternities were deeply involved with the practice of Alchemy. Many members belonging to the Asiatic Brethren of Fratres Lucis became members of a German masonic lodge called L'Aurore Naissante (or "the Nascent Dawn" founded in 1807. This lodge was a very ancient Rosicrucian Lodge were Lord Bulwer Lytton was received into Adeptship. The basis of the Asiatic Brethren, also known as the Fratres Lucis was the Rosicrucianism, Martinism, Freemasonry and the Illuminati. The Grand Master of the Asiatic Brethren, is also a leading member of the Illuminati. Another member of the Asiatic Brethren, the Comte de St. Germain. was a notorious alchemist, whom many believed to be immortal. He was the supposed Grand Master of Freemasonry.

In the Pansophic Rites, the order of the Fratres Lucis has been updated and renamed to match the needs of our time. Membership in the Sodalitas Lucis (the Sodality of Light) is available only to Master Masons in good standing within a Pansophic Lodge. It is an initiatory order and its degrees, which are based on the exploration of various esoteric currents, can be conferred privately or in open Lodge.

This is the link: https://sites.google.com/site/memphismizraimbg/o-c-i-
The O.T.O. and the revival of the Order of the Illuminati (O.I.)


The Oriental Masonic Order of the Ancient and Primitive Rite of Memphis and Misraim or Ancient and Primitive Rite of Memphis and Misraim, is a dual Masonic-Illuministic system. The creator of the of Egyptian Rite was the Count Alexander of Cagliostro (1749-1796). Alexander of Cagliostro was initiated to the secrets of the Egyptian Freemasonry by the mysterious Master Altothas in 1776, year of the foundation of the Illuminati Order. The summit of the Illuminati Order was constituted by 6 members: 4 were known (Weishaupt, von Knigge, Goethe, Herder) and 2 were secrets (Franklin and Cagliostro). In effects a secret connection existed between the Illuminati Order of Weishaupt and the Egyptian Freemasonry of Cagliostro that was officially founded in 1785, year of the suppression of the Illuminati Order. The Order of the Illuminati was established on May 1, 1776 at the University of Ingolstadt, then part of the Kingdom of Bavaria, in Germany, by a professor of law called Adam Weishaupt (1748-1830). The Illuminati were an organization, with both esoteric rituals and a political aim, based on the Enlightenment philosophy.

Around the turn of the 19 century, Theodor Reuss and Leopold Engel tried rather unsuccessfully to revive the O.I., as founded by Adam Weishaupt in the 18th century. Within the framework of the German occult revival at the end of the 19th century, Leopold Engel (1858-1931) “revived” the Bavarian Order of the Illuminati in 1901. He was a member of the Inner Circle of the loosely organized movement including the followers of the Austrian Christian visionary and mystic Jakob Lorber (1800-1864). In fact, Engel “received” spiritually (today, the word “channelled” would be used) the missing 11th volume of Lorber’s masterpiece The Great Gospel of John, a volume still accepted as a legitimate part of the Lorber canon by many (although by no means all) Lorberians. He was also a prolific science fiction and dime novels writer. In fact, he seemed to have led a double life, keeping his Lorberian and Illuminati activities quite separate, although the Illuminati materials written by Engel do show the influence of Lorber.

Engel and his associate Theodor Reuss (1855-1923) were spreading the word that the Illuminati Order had been revived since 1896. Later, they claimed that the revival took place in 1880. As usual, Engel and Reuss told the members of their newly founded order that it was both very old and a legitimate continuation of the Bavarian Illuminati, whose succession had been transmitted from father to son within Reuss’ family. Reuss met Leopold Engel in 1895, the year in which he revived his Order of the Illuminati at Berlin, and Engel joined the Order on 1896. But then in 1897 Engel founded his own Order of the Illuminati at Dresden but it united with Order of the Illuminati of Reuss in 1899. It is unlikely that the Reuss-Engel 'Illuminati' managed to recruit many members so in order to make the Order more attractive its chiefs resolved to give it a masonic complexion. With the exception of Reuss there is no evidence that any of those concerned had ever been initiated in a regular freemasons' Lodge. Indeed, Reuss himself does not appear to have been involved in any regular masonic activity since he had joined the Pilgrim Lodge in London in 1876.

Thus on 1901 'the Illuminati Theodor Reuss, Leopold Engel, August Weinholtz, Max Rahn and Siegmund Miller, who were joined by Max Heilbronner and Georg Gierloff ' met at Reuss’s home in the Belle Alliancestrasse at Berlin 'and resolved to re-open the (Ludwig) Lodge which had been founded at Munich in 1880. According to the minutes the dormant Ludwig Lodge was 'ancient and accepted', which infers an ignorance of masonic terminology. In any event, whatever the Ludwig Lodge at Munich may or may not have been, it was certainly never regular.

Since it appeared necessary to have a warrant the brethren had one printed by Seydel & Co., at Berlin. It was issued by the Order of the Illuminati and referred to the Order’s specific authority to form masonic lodges. Reuss was now accorded the sole right to found and consecrate masonic lodges according to the Order’s 'lodge regulations'. All masonic documents were to be signed and sealed at the Order’s office at Dresden. For some unknown reason this document was backdated to 1 January 1900.

There was yet another warrant or its equivalent. According to Leopold Engel it had been given to Adam Weishaupt when the latter was at Regensburg on 19 November 1786 by 'the Prince of Rose-Croix Bro. Louis-Gabriel Lebauche of Bazeille, near Sedan. It had always been in the possession of Illuminati and is now in the custody of the Ludwig Lodge.'.

The foundation of the Ludwig Lodge was duly announced in the Rahn-Weinholtz periodical Die Ubersinnliche Welt, where it was stated that 'the Order of the Illuminati founds and warrants masonic lodges. However, only master masons can be accepted in the high degrees or found freemasons' lodges.... The Order has close connections with freemasons in France, England and America.' It was also emphasized that the lodge was masonically regular and worked a recognized ritual based upon an old and genuine English exemplar. Apart from the three craft degrees there was also a fourth St. Andrew’s degree. 'Master masons who are in possession of the St Andrew’s degree and wish to pursue occult studies can be received into the Rosicrucian degree...'

The brethren soon began to hear objections that the Ludwig Lodge was nothing more than an offshoot of the Order of the Illuminati and not masonic. A solution was easily found. On 3 July 1901 the lodge ceased to have any official connection with the Order. In the meantime Reuss had fished around and netted some additional lodges so that by the end of 1901 in additional to the Ludwig Lodge his new 'Obedience' included:

· Adam zur Weisheit (Dresden)
· Phonix zur Wahreit (Hamburg)
· Zur hellen Morgenrote (Kattowirz.)
· Zur aufbluhenden Rose der Bestandigkeit (Zittau)
· Katharine zum stehenden Lowen (Rudolstadt)

None of them was recognized by any of the regular German Grand Lodges. The Hamburg and Kattowitz lodges had previously been affiliated to the Allgemeine Burgerloge at Berlin. The latter was a 'pseudo Grand Lodge' operated at Berlin by O. Hemfler, a bookseller who sold masonic pins and badges to the gullible. Some of the ABL lodges only had one or two members. Even so, several groups of Engel's survived both World Wars and came under Hermann Joseph Metzger's (1919-1990) presidency in 1963.

Although persecuted in Nazi Germany, the Illuminati were able to survive in Switzerland, particularly thanks to the efforts of Felix Lazerus Pinkus (1881-1947), a rich left-wing economist, supported in many ways by Metzger, a stage hypnotist, who maintained alive the Order of the Illuminati until his death in 1990, and created an Illuminati center in the Swiss village of Stein, in the canton of Outer Appenzell. The main aim of the Stein group, reduced to less than a dozen members, is to survive. Engel’s group did not have any particular power. It had a certain cultural influence and initiated two distinguished novelists, Gustav Meyrink (1868-1932) and Franz Spunda (1890-1963), but this was rather limited to the occult subculture itself. Metzger then regarded the O.I. as a framework for his compilation of orders (O.T.O., F.R.A.), and quickly integrated the Ecclesia Gnostica Catholica, too, into the higher grades of his O.I. A small number of his disciples still live or at least periodically meet there, and they are the only legitimate heirs of Engel’s Illuminati.

coogar:

lord_reed is not intelligent.....
in his shoes, i would take each of the names mentioned here and do extensive research on those names, the lineage, the connection, etc before coming out to criticise. how can you not know something and you argue against people who know? only nigerians reason this way........when you don't know - you shut up and listen!

I suppose you also are unintelligent because you went to college to seek for knowledge. Did you professors say you are unintelligent because you asked them questions? I asked you to prove your assertions and here you are telling me to search ℓ☺ℓ. I ask again what good is your knowledge?

Only those who don't understand how progress is made in acquiring knowledge speak the way you do.

Lord_Reed:

I suppose you also are intelligent because you went to college to seek for knowledge. Did you professors say you unintelligent because you asked them questions? I asked you to prove your assertions and here you are telling me to search ℓ☺ℓ. I ask again what good is your knowledge?

this is not some academic research where i can get a blackboard and a pink chalk...this is some deep schitzo......i would have to take you through so many hoops, many of which you won't even understand because your mind is set that we are just telling porkies!

Only those who don't understand how progress is made in acquiring knowledge speak the way you do.

but why do you seek knowledge in something you don't believe in? care to shed some light why you are so bent in seeking knowledge in something you deemed "conspiracy theory"? you sound a bit confused.......

coogar:

this is not some academic research where i can get a blackboard and a pink chalk...this is some deep schitzo......i would have to take you through so many hoops, many of which you won't even understand because your mind is set that we are just telling porkies!

I am not seeking lectures. Point out the facts as you know them
is good enough for me. What I don't accept is someone coming an
d saying unsubstantiated things.

but why do you seek knowledge in something you don't believe in? care to shed some light why you are so bent in seeking knowledge in something you deemed "conspiracy theory"? you sound a bit confused.......

In no way confused my good man. I said until you provide proof it is a conspiracy THEORY. You do know the meaning of a theory don't you?

If someone claims some organisation is capable of taking over the whole world at the drop of a hat why shouldn't I be curious, moreso when from the little I know the said organisation is in the shadows like the Boogey Man.

In the 80s & 90s the Freemasons were the favourite whipping boy for conspiracy theories and where are they today? Has the world been over taken by them? Now these days a new whipping boy has come on the scene, I will natural take all of this with a pinch of salt until I see evidence/proof.

coogar:

i appreciate.....
the thing about people like lord-reed is their lack of knowledge.....people that are not knowledgeable are supposed to be quiet - they are supposed to listen and learn not discarding what the eggheads are telling them! illuminati can be traced back as far as 2134(before christ) from their canaanite roots to rome......i don't wanna say much about this ish - but this chosen few of enlightened folks operate at a higher level bigger than kanye/jay-z!

Can you help me with the canaanite roots however skeletal the info? I will try to connect the dots. The reason is I would like to use or reference it for an essay I am currently drafting. Would you prefer contact via email?

@Niflheim, note that Lucis is cognate with Olósí which is translated as 'owner/bearer of the path of chaos/destruction/evil' not 'bearer of light' as the Indo-Europeans want the world to believe. Since the word 'luminate' is related to (and may have IMO from the same root as) 'Lucis', 'Illuminate' probably means 'to darken, cause chaos, destroy, which is what these people have been doing to the earth and to Negroes.

amor4ce: Can you help me with the canaanite roots however skeletal the info? I will try to connect the dots. The reason is I would like to use or reference it for an essay I am currently drafting. Would you prefer contact via email?

of course, i can - knowledge should be free....

Lord_Reed:
I am not seeking lectures. Point out the facts as you know them
is good enough for me. What I don't accept is someone coming an
d saying unsubstantiated things.

nah, you need lectures......
you cannot ask a stark illiterate to solve advanced calculus all of a sudden, you have to take him through the hoops....

In no way confused my good man. I said until you provide proof it is a conspiracy THEORY. You do know the meaning of a theory don't you?

If someone claims some organisation is capable of taking over the whole world at the drop of a hat why shouldn't I be curious, moreso when from the little I know the said organisation is in the shadows like the Boogey Man.

In the 80s & 90s the Freemasons were the favourite whipping boy for conspiracy theories and where are they today? Has the world been over taken by them? Now these days a new whipping boy has come on the scene, I will natural take all of this with a pinch of salt until I see evidence/proof.

i only provide proofs to believers or the neutral minds - not someone with a mindset that i am telling porkies......

greatgenius: ^^^^ No these days I just try to respect the creator's will by not infringing on other peoples freewill. Those who seek the truth will find it. You shouldn't infringe on others freewill by feeding them the truth. Some peoples will is to remain in the dark you have to accept that. They will find their way when they ready ..When the student is ready the master always will be there..

You are so right, that is my code of living these days. I say what i have to say, whether they believe it or not is between them and their god.

coogar, the true Hebrews are not Canaanites. The Hyksos are Amorites who invaded Egypt and enslaved the true Hebrews, a crime which they repeated again by invading the continent they renamed as Americas and enslaving Negroes there. Note that in Genesis 15:16 the people who enslaved the true Hebrews are identified as the Amorites, not the Egyptians. The Amorites are actually Indo-Europeans and one trait is common with them - obfuscating the truth using identity theft and claiming to be the original and chosen people. Another trait is violence. Christianity, Islam and Judaism are the 3 vertices of the triangle for their fake 'all-seeing eye', and this triangle is perhaps like a portal for the manifestation of the Anti- Imisi Iye (or Anti-Messiah). They have deceived the world into expecting the Anti-Christ whereas Christ is the one opposed to the Redeemer (Imisi Iye / Messiah). I'm going to prove these with that essay of mine and I will like you to give your own critique when it is ready.

amor4ce: coogar, the true Hebrews are not Canaanites. The Hyksos are Amorites who invaded Egypt and enslaved the true Hebrews, a crime which they repeated again by invading the continent they renamed as Americas and enslaving Negroes there. Note that in Genesis 15:16 the people who enslaved the true Hebrews are identified as the Amorites, not the Egyptians. The Amorites are actually Indo-Europeans and one trait is common with them - obfuscating the truth using identity theft and claiming to be the original and chosen people. Another trait is violence. Christianity, Islam and Judaism are the 3 vertices of the triangle for their fake 'all-seeing eye', and this triangle is perhaps like a portal for the manifestation of the Anti- Imisi Iye (or Anti-Messiah). They have deceived the world into expecting the Anti-Christ whereas Christ is the one opposed to the Redeemer (Imisi Iye / Messiah). I'm going to prove these with that essay of mine and I will like you to give your own critique when it is ready.

do that sir......i would be glad to read it!

.

amor4ce: How do I let you know when its ready? I doubt if I'll publish it on Nairaland but on my blog. Should I leave my email or send a PM when done?

send me a pm when it's ready.....
i also have something to show you when you are done - its all about sharing knowledge, isn't it?

Found this:

http://illuminatifordummies..com/2009/05/real-illuminati.html

A bit objective in approach. Nice Read.

Anybody with more?

A gentleman whose username is bermuda,accused me of lying when I said that the Five Percenters is a cult!!!.........................Check out the link!!!
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Godbody

Godbody

Godbody is a slang name for the members of the urban, Black empowerment, youth movement called the Five Percenters. It was founded circa 1964, in Harlem New York City by a former minister of the Nation of Islam named Clarence X 13, a.k.a The Father (he ministered in Mosque No.7, the same Mosque as Malcolm X). Five Percenters are considered to be a splinter group of the Nation of Islam, and a cult by the F.B.I. It is also considered to be a dangerous prison gang by some states' Department of Corrections. Their philosophy is closer to the Realist school of thought than any other. They don't believe in religion or the supernatural claiming that these are just concepts designed to keep people in fear of thinking independently and seeking truth. Among other things, they believe that the Black man was the Original Man on Earth, and all other races are descendents of ancient Africans. They also believe that only 5% of the population is truly free and possesses knowledge of self (hence the name Five Percenters). 85% is the slave population, or the deaf dumb and blind. The remaining 10% are the holders of knowledge that enslave the 85% by keeping them ignorant of their real history and true identity (in short, if there ever was an Illuminatti, they would fall under the 10%). Five Percenters refer to themselves as the Nation of Gods and Earths (Black men are considered Gods, Black women are considered Earths). Their members are considered Godbody. Some famous people believed to be Five Percenters, or Gods are: Wu Tang Clan, certain members of Mobb Deep, Nas, Busta Rhymes, De la Soul, Styles P, Smiff n Wesson, and Common. ...

Here is another link which refers to them as a gang,any gang claiming to be a religious organization is obviously a cult: http://njgangsurvey.civicimpulse.com/gang/gang5pcters
Another http://beto.stormpages.com/gang/page7lexingesp.htm
I also have a link from the National Gang Crime Research :http://www.ngcrc.com/gangface.html

Has anybody ever heard of Kenneth "Supreme" Mc Griff?The big time drug dealer?..........................A book was written about him,claiming that before he rose to power in the underworld,he had to take over the oldest gang in Queeens,which is the "5 Percenters"..............this is the link:www.crimemagazine.com/introduction-street-legends-vol-3-–-supreme-team?page=7

I would like to apologize to "Lord Reed" for the way and manner in which I spoke to him.Please forgive me.

Niflheim: I would like to apologize to "Lord Reed" for the way and manner in which I spoke to him.Please forgive me.

No sweat man.

The Lord of Reeds is a very curious man. .

thread for people with SCHISROPHENIA,MENTAL HEALTH DISORDER and PARANOIA, you people needs to go see your doctors

Good evening Lord Reed,I visited the website that you recommended,but it was not helpful:
1.The guy who runs the website is an editor(he specializes in adding and subtracting when it suits him)!!!
2.The guy who runs the website is a professional script writer(he creates his own fantasies and fictions at will)!!!
3.The guy who runs the website seems to be promoting masonic propaganda(anything negative about freemasonry is conspicously missing from the website)!!!

neophyte007: Good evening Lord Reed,I visited the website that you recommended,but it was not helpful:
1.The guy who runs the website is an editor(he specializes in adding and subtracting when it suits him)!!!
2.The guy who runs the website is a professional script writer(he creates his own fantasies and fictions at will)!!!
3.The guy who runs the website seems to be promoting masonic propaganda(anything negative about freemasonry is conspicously missing from the website)!!!

Well from the comments section I saw that the guy was willing to admit where he made mistakes or omissions kinda makes up for his shortcomings don't you think?