.

Logicboy03:


supporters' club.


Feel free to air your grievances with me on this topic. You will be adequately debunked.

Lolol. You!! Debunk me? Lol.
So true and only when debunk can be substituted interchangeably for delusion.
To begin with it, if you were smart enough, commonsense should have told you whose opinion I intend to work with-not necessitating a repeat of an already written.
You can 'attack' me from there, that's if only you understand.

musKeeto: Bt inurmind's definitions, very few Christians would be 'freethinkers'...

Which brings another to mind?

Is anyone really a 'free' thinker?

As long as one exhibits one form of bias or another, can one be said to be a 'freethinker'?

Expect some extreme examples to follow.. On my mobile now...

Stop trying to please the christians here with this ambiguous boolshyt bro!



We all have biases due to the nature of the human mind


Freethinking allows one to understand his own biases.


A freethinker subjects his opinion to logic and reason.

God is not logical neither is faith.


A christian can not truly be a freethinker. End of.

Reyginus: Lolol. You!! Debunk me? Lol.
So true and only when debunk can be substituted interchangeably for delusion.
To begin with it, if you were smart enough, commonsense should have told you whose opinion I intend to work with-not necessitating a repeat of an already written.
You can 'attack' me from there, that's if only you understand.

butthurted

Logicboy03:



butthurted

Please knight, Debunk me.

Logicboy03:



Stop trying to please the christians here with this ambiguous boolshyt bro!



We all have biases due to the nature of the human mind


Freethinking allows one to understand his own biases.


A freethinker subjects his opinion to logic and reason.

God is not logical neither is faith.


A christian can not truly be a freethinker. End of.

One bias - an atheist makes an honest comment, and you claim he's trying to please christians.

2nd bias - a christian can not truly be a freethinker. In the same vein, an atheist(one who claims GOD(in terms of a creator does not exist) can not be said to be a freethinker.

Why? For all we know, reason and logic might lead us to a 'GOD'... One way less complex than us, maybe?

You say faith is not logical? I'd say love is also not logical.. In fact, logic is overrated. Logic is usually based on knowledge.

Take for example, when people believed the world was flat. It was only logical. As far as they could see, the world had a horizon beyond which nothing else was visible.

I'm of the opinion that the word 'freethinker' is at best absurd, at worst comical. We can never be 'free' of biases, whether or not we understand these biases is a whole different issue..

musKeeto: By inurmind's definitions, very few Christians would be 'freethinkers'...

Which brings another question to mind...

Is anyone really a 'free' thinker?

As long as one exhibits some form of bias or another, can one be said to be a 'freethinker'?

Expect some extreme examples to follow.. On my mobile now...

I don't fully agree with you.
First of all, a bias can only obstruct freethinking only when there are no basis for our acceptance of it.
That is, when we deliberately avoid to think through some of the things this bias seem to hold.
But if we can rationalize the content that hold for this bias and still hold unto it, freethinking still holds.

Now I find an ish with your stance...

Logicboy03:

Stop trying to please the christians here with this ambiguous boolshyt bro!

Logicboy03:
We all have biases due to the nature of the human mind


Freethinking allows one to understand his own biases.

Agreed!

Logicboy03:
A freethinker subjects his opinion to logic and reason.

Hmmm...let's see some definitions:


Definition of FREETHINKER - Merriam-webster

one who forms opinions on the basis of reason independently of authority; especially : one who doubts or denies religious dogma

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/freethinker

---

free·think·er (frthngkr) - Freedictionary
n.
One who has rejected authority and dogma, especially in religious thinking, in favor of rational inquiry and speculation.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/freethinker

---

free thinker - Urban dictionary

An individual whose opinions are formed on the basis of an understanding and rejection of tradition, authority or established belief.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=free%20thinker

---

free·think·er [free-thing-ker] - Dictionnary.com
noun
a person who forms opinions on the basis of reason, independent of authority or tradition, especially a person whose religious opinions differ from established belief.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/freethinker

---

Definition: Atheist-Dictionary

A freethinker is defined as one who arrives at their beliefs through the use of reason, science, logic, and empiricism rather than by relying on dogma, tradition, and authorities.
http://atheism.about.com/od/Atheist-Dictionary/g/Freethinker-Definition.htm

---

Interestingly the only definition that supports your case can be found in an Atheist/Agnostic website and the definition really has to do with a philosophical view-point as explained by Urban dictionary....see below:

Free Thinker - Urban dictionary
A philosophical viewpoint that opinions or beliefs of reality should be based on science, logic and reason. Ideas should not be derived from religion, authority, governments or dogmas.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=free%20thinker

---

Logicboy03:
God is not logical neither is faith.

God is outside the scope of logic...

Logicboy03:
A christian can not truly be a freethinker. End of.

I am not a freethinker but there are Christians who fit perfectly into the definition of a freethinker...

Morning Musky,

musKeeto: By inurmind's definitions, very few Christians would be 'freethinkers'...

Which brings another question to mind...

Is anyone really a 'free' thinker?

As long as one exhibits some form of bias or another, can one be said to be a 'freethinker'?

Expect some extreme examples to follow.. On my mobile now...

I don't think bias negates freethinking...

^^

A Christian can not be a freethinker cos he MUST trust God. Ihedinobi can vouch for that.

Kay 17: ^^

A Christian can not be a freethinker cos he MUST trust God. Ihedinobi can vouch for that.

Morning Kay,

My bible dictionary tells me that trusting in God has nothing to do with freethinking...

Kay 17: ^^

A Christian can not be a freethinker cos he MUST trust God. Ihedinobi can vouch for that.

Kay, I think it will only be so if the reason for trusting God is not given nor allowed to be reasoned.
And this is not the case.

striktlymi: Morning Musky,



I don't think bias negates freethinking...

Bias: a particular tendency or inclination, especially one that prevents unprejudiced consideration of a question; prejudice.

musKeeto:

Bias: a particular tendency or inclination, especially one that prevents unprejudiced consideration of a question; prejudice.

But Musky don't you think that free thought can make one have a bias for something?

striktlymi:

But Musky don't you think that free thought can make one have a bias for something?

And that's my point.. 'freethinking' is an absurd term...



Everyone forms an authority one way or the other.. You can be your own authority. What's reasonable to you may not be reasonable to another.... Even among atheists and theists....

musKeeto:

And that's my point.. 'freethinking' is an absurd term...



Everyone forms an authority one way or the other.. You can be your own authority. What's reasonable to you may not be reasonable to another.... Even among atheists and theists....

You are so on point Musky...I got to say that the bold killed it for me...

The bold is the heart of freethinking...deciding what works for you as against what the next individual, next constituted authority etc thinks...

Unlike you, I believe the concept of freethinking makes so much sense...it really has little to do with religion or ir-religion but a lot to do with the individual and how the individual arrives at his or her beliefs or what impacts this individuals decision making process...

Are his actions and thoughts based on independent thoughts or is it based on the thoughts and ideals of someone else? The authority that should be relevant here is that from outside this individual...

striktlymi:
Unlike you, I believe the concept of freethinking makes so much sense...it really has little to do with religion or ir-religion but a lot to do with the individual and how the individual arrives at his or her beliefs or what impacts this individuals decision making process...

Are his actions and thoughts based on independent thoughts or is it based on the thoughts and ideals of someone else? The authority that should be relevant here is that from outside this individual...

And on this, I concede..

When a Christian can make a case against homosexuality without resorting to Biblical verses, IMO, he's 'free-thinking'

Anony was a great 'freethinker', one theist I had much respect for. He could make valid arguments for 'GOD' without quoting verses.


If no Christian was a 'freethinker', there would be more harmony among the Christians on this section.

musKeeto:

And on this, I concede..

When a Christian can make a case against homosexuality without resorting to Biblical verses, IMO, he's 'free-thinking'

Anony was a great 'freethinker', one theist I had much respect for. He could make valid arguments for 'GOD' without quoting verses.


If no Christian was a 'freethinker', there would be more harmony among the Christians on this section.

Agreed!!!

striktlymi:

Morning Kay,

My bible dictionary tells me that trusting in God has nothing to do with freethinking...

Morning

It does, because the Christian is unable emotionally to suspend his belief in God before proving and confirming his existence.

Reyginus: Kay, I think it will only be so if the reason for trusting God is not given nor allowed to be reasoned.
And this is not the case.

from a surface view, yes BUT its unorganised to prove the existence of a being AFTER trusting it.

Kay 17:

Morning

It does, because the Christian is unable emotionally to suspend his belief in God before proving and confirming his existence.

Interesting thought but again I fail to see how one's belief in God or not has anything to do with freethinking...

If one decides not to suspend his belief in God...this does not mean the individual cannot make a case for the existence of God...this still is a completely different matter...

Kay 17:

Morning

It does, because the Christian is unable emotionally to suspend his belief in God before proving and confirming his existence.

...on the other hand, if you say there are Christians who submit themselves to religious dogmas (like my 'humble' self ) which can hinder the extent to which they can adopt free thoughts then I will agree...but note that not every Christian does this...

Logicboy03:


There are christian dogmas you reject- good

There are christian dogmas you accept- fail


You can not be a freethinker

does that ^ means that one who is a "free" thinker is no longer "free" to accept a belief partan that seems logical to him


how then can he be "free" to think/be a "free"thinker if he cannot apply his thinking process in action in whatever way he wants or whatever calling he so freely chooses?
.................................................................

Sounds contradictory and ironic to meeee!

Detailed answer is wellcome

Reyginus: @Okexy
well said!!
Do I expect a rebuttal from the accused?
Not at all.

In reply to Reginus:

Logicboy03: @Reginus


supporters' club.


Feel free to air your grievances with me on this topic. You will be adequately debunked.

Then this in reply to logicboy's post above to Reginus:

striktlymi: Morning Dark knight,



Nah...the above does not define me... you know I don't just join the bandwagon; if it makes sense I accept...haven't you seen me defend some Islam position



I don't have one yet cause I am yet to fully grasp your position on the matter...



Lol!!!...in your dreams man...in your dreams!

@ Strik.

why do you feel that the above is directed at you while reading?

(I know that you are a different person from @Reginus)
peace.

truthislight:

In reply to Reginus:



Then this in reply to logicboy's post above to Reginus:



@ Strik.

why do you feel that the above is directed at you while reading?

(I know that you are a different person from @Reginus)
peace.

Morning truthislight,

Oh...I just saw it...I thought he quoted me...didn't realize it was meant for Rey.


LB apologies for the mistake...

Thanks truthislight for the correction.

Edit:

@Bold: I thought LB was accusing me of supporting inurmind...

striktlymi:

Morning truthislight,

Oh...I just saw it...I thought he quoted me...didn't realize it was meant for Rey.


LB apologies for the mistake...

Thanks truthislight for the correction.

Edit:

@Bold: I thought LB was accusing me of supporting inurmind...

Ok.

musKeeto:

One bias - an atheist makes an honest comment, and you claim he's trying to please christians.

2nd bias - a christian can not truly be a freethinker. In the same vein, an atheist(one who claims GOD(in terms of a creator does not exist) can not be said to be a freethinker.

Why? For all we know, reason and logic might lead us to a 'GOD'... One way less complex than us, maybe?

You say faith is not logical? I'd say love is also not logical.. In fact, logic is overrated. Logic is usually based on knowledge.

Take for example, when people believed the world was flat. It was only logical. As far as they could see, the world had a horizon beyond which nothing else was visible.

I'm of the opinion that the word 'freethinker' is at best absurd, at worst comical. We can never be 'free' of biases, whether or not we understand these biases is a whole different issue..

It is rare that I would call an atheist pal a dubious douche but you deserve it.


You seriously fall my hand

You first wrongly define atheism as saying that there is no God
Even the very definition of Freethinker is irreligious....so what is your point? Are you now going to argue with the dictionary, just like how Ihedinobi argues against the encyclopedia of philosophy on a clear logical fact that has been proven?


You then go on to say that "freethinker" is absurd and comical. Do you think atheists just woke up and made the word to describe a person who reasons? How arrogant do yo ave to be to say that it is absurd. If freethinking, the use of reasoning and logic is absurd to you, then feel free to find a better word to describe someone that uses logic and reasoning to base his opinions on.

We have biases but how do we know what is biased without logic in the first place? Your point is moot.

mtchew...


how was the world being flat ever logical? Just people believed it? It was intuitive because the ground was flat but never logical. Please learn the meaning of words

I dont want to debunk you again

musKeeto:

And on this, I concede..

When a Christian can make a case against homosexuality without resorting to Biblical verses, IMO, he's 'free-thinking'

Anony was a great 'freethinker', one theist I had much respect for. He could make valid arguments for 'GOD' without quoting verses.


If no Christian was a 'freethinker', there would be more harmony among the Christians on this section.

You are silly. Is there any valid argument for god? See your life? Name one valid argument for God. I dare you


Please, stop trying to please christians, you only look silly


God is not logical...a freethinker can not be a christian talkless of a christian apologist

Even the very definition of freethinker is irreligious.

Furthermore, christians can engage in freethinking, just like how I can run but I am not a runner/professional athlete

truthislight:

does that ^ means that one who is a "free" thinker is no longer "free" to accept a belief partan that seems logical to him


how then can he be "free" to think/be a "free"thinker if he cannot apply his thinking process in action in whatever way he wants or whatever calling he so freely chooses?
.................................................................

Sounds contradictory and ironic to meeee!

Detailed answer is wellcome

A christian believes in God.

God is illogical

End of story.

Logicboy03:
It is rare that I would call an atheist pal a dubious douche but you deserve it.

No wahala. As Long AS Truth is proven to be on your side,

Logicboy03:
You seriously fall my hand

You first wrongly define atheism as saying that there is no God

LOL.
From wikipedia - Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities. In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities.

From dictionary: Atheism is the theory or belief that God does not exist.

I can't believe I'm having this aregument with you. Who is being dubious?

Also, if atheism can't be defined as saying there's no God, then Psalm 14:1 no longer applies to us.. And anytime I see you responding to that verse, I'll come over and whoop your ass..

Logicboy03:
Even the very definition of Freethinker is irreligious....so what is your point? Are you now going to argue with the dictionary, just like how Ihedinobi argues against the encyclopedia of philosophy on a clear logical fact that has been proven?

Indeed freethinker is irreligious, that's not under dispute... But can a Christian 'freethink'? Can he make personal conclusions without resort to the Bible?

In fact, just to be a bit silly, when a Christian goes against what the Bible stipulates, example seeing nothing wrong with fornication, would you say he's freethinking?

You love 'secular' Christians... Don't you understand that indirectly you refer to Christians who understand their 'religious biases' but are able to look beyond it? Isn't that freethinking?

Logicboy03:
You then go on to say that "freethinker" is absurd and comical. Do you think atheists just woke up and made the word to describe a person who reasons? How arrogant do yo ave to be to say that it is absurd. If freethinking, the use of reasoning and logic is absurd to you, then feel free to find a better word to describe someone that uses logic and reasoning to base his opinions on.

I already explained why I find it absurd. What exactly is free thinking? Can anyone think without resort to ANY form of authority? Or is it just for those who can reason beyond 'religious' text? If freethinking is limited to the bolded,then my bad... I'm wrong..

Logicboy03:
We have biases but how do we know what is biased without logic in the first place? Your point is moot.

Not logic, but knowledge.. What we know and how much we know affects our perceptions...

A shop was broken into. A black man was seen running across the shop. - To a racist, at this point, it's only logical for him to conclude the black man stole from the shop.


A shop was broken into. A black man was seen running across the shop. The black man caught up with the thief and apprehended him.

Logicboy03:
mtchew...

Lol, no wound your lips o..

Logicboy03:
how was the world being flat ever logical? Just people believed it? It was intuitive because the ground was flat but never logical. Please learn the meaning of words

The world being flat wasn't logical but intuitive. That people would fall off the earth when they got to the end was logical.

Logicboy03:
I dont want to debunk you again

Don't pop that champagne yet..

What of an individual subscribing after due scrutiny to a religious dogma as his personal belief??

Logicboy03:



A christian believes in God.

God is illogical

End of story.

I can't believe this..a dogmatic Atheist

The quintessential freethinker is in the mould of Socrates, the only man to know he is ignorant. The freethinker is consciously in search of the truth, he is willing to forsake all traditional "truth" even ethics. He is unbound by all authorities except Reason.

He will appear insensitive to society, disregard and subordinate Society's goals, aims and practices.

The freethinker is a rebel in short.