JesusisLord85:

Did any of us say that observing the law makes one righteous?

if y'all not saying keeping da law makes one righteous,what does the titke of da tread says and where does the teaching wrong that u turned it into distraction n battleground?da title says righteousness of da law n righteousness of Christ by faith in grace.do you then receive God's righteousness by keeping da law or by faith in christ as da goshen teach?

HumbledbYGrace: Thanks, I needed this, just a reminder. Have been going through a battle with myself, trying to take away what God created. *sigh*

There's a seed of God in everyone who believes in Christ and they are made anew, a new creature they are. The devil is always wanting to attack the righteousness of God in you but you have to fight the good fight of faith.

ayoku777: This is what we need to be hearing, on TV and in church, not all these deliverance from demons on tv that mocks christianity. The church needs deliverance from ignorance and from the Law. If believers are taught grace, trust me, we will have less things to be delivered from.

Yes bro. The Law keeps in bondage and grace sets free. The law is the POWER that sin operates on\with. Take the power of sin away, then sin shall not have dominion or power over you\us or the church. Glory to God!

shdemidemi:
Lets say I agree with you, Paul went on to verse 2

2 For the woman who has a husband is bound by the law to her husband as long as he lives. But if the husband dies, she is released from the law of her husband.

What law is he talking about in the bolded?


My question is still pending @ jesusislord

Ok brother, let me break down what this Romans 7 is. I know you hate long posts so I will be succint

Deuteronomy 24:1-4
"If a man marries a woman who becomes displeasing to him because he finds something indecent about her, and he writes her a certificate of divorce, gives it to her and sends her from his house, 2 and if after she leaves his house she becomes the wife of another man, 3 and her second husband dislikes her and writes her a certificate of divorce, gives it to her and sends her from his house, or if he dies, 4 then her first husband, who divorced her, is not allowed to marry her again after she has been defiled. That would be detestable in the eyes of the Lord. Do not bring sin upon the land the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance."

God was a husband to Israel:

Isaiah 54:5
"For your Maker is your husband, the Lord of hosts is his name; and the Holy One of Israel is your Redeemer, the God of the whole earth he is called"

Jeremiah 31:32 "Not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the Lord"

God divorced Israel for "playing the harlot", adultery:

Jeremiah 3:8 "And I saw , when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away , and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also."

Jeremiah 3 prophecy:
"They say, If a man put away his wife,and she go from him, and become another man’s, shall he return unto her again? shall not that land be greatly polluted? but thou hast played the harlot with many lovers;yet return again to me, saith the Lord."

So Israel played the harlot. God divorced her, gave her a letter of divorce as the law demands. BUT the prophecy also states he will bring her back into covenant.
Well, that would be breaking the law wouldn't it. A woman is bound to her husband as long as he lives. So that is the mystery, how will God make Israel his bride again when he had already divorced her once.

Well, there it is, Romans 7. That is why the Messiah had to come and die on the cross. The gospel is not the fact that he dies. The gospel was preached BEFORE he died. They {in Sinai} even heard the gospel, they just never mixed it with faith.

Hebrews 4:1 "Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. 2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it."

So while they had the law, they did not mix it with faith. We do this, but you say be are "Judaizers" in bondage - God help you.

Anyway that is context of Romans 7. But how can you know the great mysteries you claim to understand, when you do not read the law and the prophets?

Now I'm sure that you can read Romans 7 through the correct lense. This your "answer me now, I'm waiting" approach is boring. Go read the front of the book, then come back and tell me what the back of it truly means.

Shalom

Goshen360:

Yes bro. The Law keeps in bondage and grace sets free. The law is the POWER that sin operates on\with. Take the power of sin away, then sin shall not have dominion or power over you\us or the church. Glory to God!

Hilarious! But, sadly, the gentleman truly believes every word he said. The true gospel offends, we can;t expect everyone that hears to turn. I pray the spirit shall minister unto the gentleman.

Goshen360: It is faith and faith alone that made Abraham counted righteous. A foreshadow of how God will raise Christ from the dead and the bring back of Isaac to life again. That's what Abraham believe God for and he was declared righteous BEFORE he offer Isaac (do a work, showing the evidence of his believe). It is not the work that justified him nor made him righteous. So James is saying, if you say you believe God had already blessed you in wealth, then show that believe or faith by also blessing others NOT blessing others BECAUSE you want God to bless you. If you say (have faith or believes) that you are already made righteous in Christ, then live it out from inside, let people see that righteousness of Christ in you. If you have faith or believe you have already being forgiven, then forgive other NOT forgive other because you want God to forgive you etc. James is saying, works is the evidence that you already believe or have faith. That is, something had already taken place on your inside, then the proof is seen of men on the outside.

Well, that's all, folks. I think we have all arrived at the same place. We Christians do the works we do BECAUSE we are saved. We do not pay tithes, for instance, in order that we might be blessed but because God has blessed us and we love those who have devoted themselves to the Ministry of the Word and Prayer. We know that the Law is good if it is used lawfully and using it lawfully is not hanging it over the heads of Christians. We use it to examine ourselves and be sure that we are still in the Faith and have not strayed by some carelessness.

Evidently, there is a lot more technical work to do here but we need not make this too arcane. We have always been on the same page, thank God that it is now evident.

What has the analogy of two husbands and one wife got to do with your long sermon bro. The man was trying to put a point across from chapter 6.

First illustration - plant

Second illustration - slave and master

Third illustration - marriage


Take it easy bro.


2 For the woman who has a husband is bound by the law to her husband as long as he lives. But if the husband dies, she is released from the law of her husband.


Now, what law bounds the woman to her husband in the highlighted part?

shdemidemi:

The bible says the risen Christ picked Paul up to take His message to the Gentiles, I happen to be one. If you believe Christ rose, don't you think we should follow the instructions he gives us?

If I remember correctly math 19:28 they are all equal before him none higher than the other

Being sent to preach to the gentiles does not imply conversion to the gentile way of life

I wouldn't know about that, I am no gentile unbeliever

I is a JEW.

Period.

shdemidemi: What has the analogy of two husbands and one wife got to do with your long sermon bro. The man was trying to put a point across from chapter 6.

First illustration - plant

Second illustration - slave and master

Third illustration - marriage


Take it easy bro.


2 For the woman who has a husband is bound by the law to her husband as long as he lives. But if the husband dies, she is released from the law of her husband.


Now, what law bounds the woman to her husband in the highlighted part?

You can talk to yourself, I have tried to help you. I will still pray for you.
I have pointed out your poor interpretations of Paul on numerous occasion. That should spur you to go read scripture. Good luck

Bidam:

Thus, Israel is not to ignore God’s establishing of his covenantal righteousness and rely upon their own
righteousness. But this is precisely what Israel has done according to Paul in Rom 10:3: “For, not recognizing the righteousness of God and seeking to establish their own righteousness they have not submitted to the righteousness of God..

Now concerning the LAW i believe it is still valid as a way for Christians to live an upright and moral life in accord with God’s Spirit. Indeed, as Paul insisted previously, we do not nullify the Law through faith, “on the contrary, we uphold the Law”( Romans3:31). Those who have been made righteous by faith and have thus received the holy Spirit are now able to fulfill the requirements of the Law (Romans8:4), and by loving one an
other Christians fulfill the Law (Romans 13:8-10).

This is one teaching where you err as a servant of Christ. You are a servant of Christ but still pledging your allegiance to MOSES. What have MOSES done for you? Redeemed you? Died for you or POINT YOU TO THE SAVIOUR? Now that you have the saviour? Why do you still pledge your allegiance to Moses who sometimes tells you to cut your hands when you sin? We are talking about obeying requirements of the law to be made righteous back to God after we all sinned in Adam? Is keeping the law made you righteous with God or what Christ did for you?

Now concerning the LAW i believe it is still valid as a way for Christians to live an upright and moral life in accord with God’s Spirit. Indeed, as Paul insisted previously,[color=#990000] we do not nullify the Law through faith, “on the contrary, we uphold the Law”( Romans3:31). Those who have been made righteous by faith and have thus received the holy Spirit are now able to fulfill the requirements of the Law (Romans8:4), and by loving one an other Christians fulfill the Law (Romans 13:8-10).[/color]

Again you err!

New Living Translation (©2007)
I do not treat the grace of God as meaningless. For if keeping the law could make us right with God, then there was no need for Christ to die. Galatians 2:21

Bidam, telling Christians that they received the Holy Spirit in order to help them or empower them to fulfill the requirements of the Law is PURE ERROR! Did you receive the Holy Spirit by keeping any Law? Why do you then think you can retain the Holy Spirit by keeping law or to help you keep the law. The Holy Spirit is to help us live the NEW life in Christ and teach us and comfort us, help our infirmities NOT KEEPING THE MOSAIC which was a yoke to Israel and they could not keep and a bondage. The death and resurrection of Christ is the RELEASE from that bondage of the Law.

Goshen360:

This is one teaching where you err as a servant of Christ. You are a servant of Christ but still pledging your allegiance to MOSES. What have MOSES done for you? Redeemed you? Died for you or POINT YOU TO THE SAVIOUR? Now that you have the saviour? Why do you still pledge your allegiance to Moses who sometimes tells you to cut your hands when you sin? We are talking about obeying requirements of the law to be made righteous back to God after we all sinned in Adam? Is keeping the law made you righteous with God or what Christ did for you?

Now concerning the LAW i believe it is still valid as a way for Christians to live an upright and moral life in accord with God’s Spirit. Indeed, as Paul insisted previously,[color=#990000] we do not nullify the Law through faith, “on the contrary, we uphold the Law”( Romans3:31). Those who have been made righteous by faith and have thus received the holy Spirit are now able to fulfill the requirements of the Law (Romans8:4), and by loving one an other Christians fulfill the Law (Romans 13:8-10).[/color]

Again you err!

New Living Translation (©2007)
I do not treat the grace of God as meaningless. For if keeping the law could make us right with God, then there was no need for Christ to die. Galatians 2:21

Bidam, telling Christians that they received the Holy Spirit in order to help them or empower them to fulfill the requirements of the Law is PURE ERROR! Did you receive the Holy Spirit by keeping any Law? Why do you then think you can retain the Holy Spirit by keeping law or to help you keep the law. The Holy Spirit is to help us live the NEW life in Christ and teach us and comfort us, help our infirmities NOT KEEPING THE MOSAIC which was a yoke to Israel and they could not keep and a bondage. The death and resurrection of Christ is the RELEASE from that bondage of the Law.

Oh my, you are worse than your evil twin brother.

Did Moses invent the law? Or tdid he write down God's instruction?

He broke the tablets because of the people's sin, and God made him write it all over again.

Chei, God help this man.

Goshen360:

The death and resurrection of Christ is the RELEASE from that bondage of the Law.

Exodus 20:2 "I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage."
So he brought them out of bondage and imposed bondage?

I bet when you read the bible you see contradictions. Well, that is because you read one part and misinterpret the other. God gave the law in written form. Then the prophecy of the new covenant states he will write it in their hearts. simple

shdemidemi: What has the analogy of two husbands and one wife got to do with your long sermon bro. The man was trying to put a point across from chapter 6.

First illustration - plant

Second illustration - slave and master

Third illustration - marriage


Take it easy bro.


2 For the woman who has a husband is bound by the law to her husband as long as he lives. But if the husband dies, she is released from the law of her husband.


Now, what law bounds the woman to her husband in the highlighted part?

i like you systematic approach with them dis folks.waiting for him to answer if he doesn't run away.

JesusisLord85:

Exodus 20:2 "I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage."
So he brought them out of bondage and imposed bondage?

I bet when you read the bible you see contradictions. Well, that is because you read one part and misinterpret the other. God gave the law in written form. Then the prophecy of the new covenant states he will write it in their hearts. simple

Look at this man o! You mean EGYPT (house of bondage) is a SPIRITUAL location that is ON A GEOGRAPHICAL LOCATION? Why are you comparing physical things with SPIRITUAL?

Exodus 20:2 "I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage."

flourishG: if y'all not saying keeping da law makes one righteous,what does the titke of da tread says and where does the teaching wrong that u turned it into distraction n battleground?da title says righteousness of da law n righteousness of Christ by faith in grace.do you then receive God's righteousness by keeping da law or by faith in christ as da goshen teach?

please note God is HOLY.

Righteousness is only an extension of his Holiness.

For Moses writes that the law's way of making a person right with God requires obedience to all of its commands. rom 10:5

Yashua obeyed all the commands to the end so you would be brave enough to do so yourself (carry ur cross)

That is why the pharasees could not ever accuse him of sinning john 8:34

Goshen360:

Look at this man o! You mean EGYPT (house of bondage) is a SPIRITUAL location that is ON A GEOGRAPHICAL LOCATION? Why are you comparing physical things with SPIRITUAL?

Exodus 20:2 "I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage."

The law was given by God. So how can it be bondage?

flourishG: i like you systematic approach with them dis folks.waiting for him to answer if he doesn't run away.

Look at this one encouraging lawlessness

Ihedinobi:

Well, that's all, folks. I think we have all arrived at the same place. We Christians do the works we do BECAUSE we are saved. We do not pay tithes, for instance, in order that we might be blessed but because God has blessed us and we love those who have devoted themselves to the Ministry of the Word and Prayer. We know that the Law is good if it is used lawfully and using it lawfully is not hanging it over the heads of Christians. We use it to examine ourselves and be sure that we are still in the Faith and have not strayed by some carelessness.

Evidently, there is a lot more technical work to do here but we need not make this too arcane. We have always been on the same page, thank God that it is now evident.

Tithe! All joined in this discussion bro What does the law say about this tithe? Did it say tithe BECAUSE YOU ARE ALREADY BLESSED? It is the same message of the law you still preaching bro. The law says tithe SO THAT GOD CAN OPEN WINDOWS OF HEAVEN FOR YOU. But Grace-giving says, give BECAUSE YOU ARE ALREADY BLESSED NOT BECAUSE YOU WANT A WINDOW OPENED TO YOU. Do you see the difference?

flourishG: so u ignorant of dispensations of God n u trynna argue d truth? Look here,I hv read all what u talking but u saying NOTHING.Can u answer da questions on dispensations asked by shdemidemi or I show u d way out of dis topic cos dont see NOTHING u saying than insult.others trynna discuss scriptures as mature but u busy insulting.

Look at this one making demands and then you go hide in a corner and watch

Lawless that's what you are

And you shall get your reward

Pure lake of fire

I tell ya.

JesusisLord85:

The more you type the more worried I become:
How can anybody, given knowledge of the whole bible, conclude that Paul is trying win them from the law?
Is this not the same Paul that was "reasoning with them {the Jews} in the synagogue", trying to convince them about Christ. Not every Jew was a believer.

Lol, you think rabbi Paul would enter the synagogue, teach false doctrine and they would not have stoned him on the spot?
The reason they could not stone Jesus was because he kept the law perfectly, they tried and tried to catch him out.

Chei, the people perish for lack of knowledge.

Brother they prefer death.

Lawlessness is death.

Goshen360:

Tithe! All joined in this discussion bro What does the law say about this tithe? Did it say tithe BECAUSE YOU ARE ALREADY BLESSED? It is the same message of the law you still preaching bro. The law says tithe SO THAT GOD CAN OPEN WINDOWS OF HEAVEN FOR YOU. But Grace-giving says, give BECAUSE YOU ARE ALREADY BLESSED NOT BECAUSE YOU WANT A WINDOW OPENED TO YOU. Do you see the difference?

I would have been very pleasantly surprised if you did not find some way to disagree with me. You who said that we do the works now not in order to receive something from God or to be saved, does the Law say that you ought to do the works BECAUSE YOU ARE ALREADY SAVED?

JesusisLord85:

The more you type the more worried I become:
How can anybody, given knowledge of the whole bible, conclude that Paul is trying win them from the law?
Is this not the same Paul that was "reasoning with them {the Jews} in the synagogue", trying to convince them about Christ. Not every Jew was a believer.

Lol, you think rabbi Paul would enter the synagogue, teach false doctrine and they would not have stoned him on the spot?
The reason they could not stone Jesus was because he kept the law perfectly, they tried and tried to catch him out.

Chei, the people perish for lack of knowledge.

Brother mutually exclusive just made my week I tell you

More strength brother.

MostHigh:

Brother mutually exclusive just made my week I tell you

More strength brother.

It is really worrying. Shdemidemi I think we have spoken long enough that I know what he is all about. But at least he knows what the bible says, and his contradictions are easy to spot only for those of us that know the law. But Goshen? My oh my, this guy is an entirely different animal. I once suspected they were the same person, but his ignorance of basic things quickly evaporated that

JesusisLord85:

The law was given by God. So how can it be bondage?

Hahahaha! I thought you quoted a PHYSICAL EGYPT so equate to our SPIRITUAL LIFE. Do you know the life we NOW live in Christ, you live in and by the Spirit? Yes, the law is a boundage TO THE LIFE OF THE SPIRIT WE ARE CALLED TO LIVE IN CHRIST. I give you scriptures and you will answer questions too.

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Galatians 5:1

What is the yoke of BONDAGE in that ^ context?

flourishG: my answer is a vow is a vow n debt.if he had made a vow before coming to Christ,he bound to fulfill it. Does keeping a vow makes a man righteous before God? Remember our righteous is like a filthy rag before God.does keeping a vow makes one righteous?

Presumptuous fellow

See how you put Pauls good works aside and then the next second you are quoting him elsewhere to achieve your Lawless appetites

Who ever said the vow was before

Is act 18:18 not after his conversion

Just to give you a heads up the same Paul took the vow again within the gospels much later on A JUADIZER AS YOU PUT IT TO THE CORE.

MostHigh:

Look at this one making demands and then you go hide in a corner and watch

Lawless that's what you are

And you shall get your reward

Pure lake of fire

I tell ya.

are u sure u wanna discuss peacefully?

Goshen360:

Hahahaha! I thought you quoted a PHYSICAL EGYPT so equate to our SPIRITUAL LIFE. Do you know the life we NOW live in Christ, you live in and by the Spirit? Yes, the law is a boundage TO THE LIFE OF THE SPIRIT WE ARE CALLED TO LIVE IN CHRIST. I give you scriptures and you will answer questions too.

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Galatians 5:1

What is the yoke of BONDAGE in that ^ context?

To quote from my recent Galatians thread:

People often use 8-11 to suggest Paul was telling them to turn from Judaism (e.g. not keep the Sabbath). But as I just showed you, these were gentiles that never knew God to begin with. Verse 8 shows they have never been Jewish in their lives. Every cult/pagan society has its own Sabbath days/holy days and feast days etc. What do you think Easter was birthed from? What they were turning back to was the pagan traditions and associated special days that they once knew.
How can you read this and say “gentiles are turning back to observing the holy Sabbath”, when they were previously worshipping false gods. Another part of Galatians that is totally misunderstood.
Paul is saying that you were once enslaved by a pagan religious system that took advantage of you (you had to perform ceremonies, rituals etc), and if you now follow these religious groups that believe you are saved by works, you are no different to when you were enslaved under the pagan gods you worshipped. But believe in Jesus that you are saved by faith, and not like them (the circumcision group) who boast and think they are saved by their own works.


That was from my thread. I say again, how can they who never knew God, are now being begged to turn from the bondage they never knew.

4:8 "“Formerly, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those who by nature are not gods.”

THAT is the bondage. Come on friend, how can a rabbi say the word of God is bondage? Chei. That is blasphemy

Ihedinobi:

I would have been very pleasantly surprised if you did not find some way to disagree with me. You who said that we do the works now not in order to receive something from God or to be saved, does the Law say that you ought to do the works BECAUSE YOU ARE ALREADY SAVED?

The Law says DO THIS and GOD does that. Grace says DO this BECAUSE God had already DONE THAT. What is it that is not clear in my teachings?

JesusisLord85:

It is really worrying. Shdemidemi I think we have spoken long enough that I know what he is all about. But at least he knows what the bible says, and his contradictions are easy to spot only for those of us that know the law. But Goshen? My oh my, this guy is an entirely different animal. I once suspected they were the same person, but his ignorance of basic things quickly evaporated that

Spot on

Goshen is constantly propelled by demons on this site

Each one appealing and polishing to his vanity

Lawlessness is their Bread

JesusisLord85:

To quote from my recent Galatians thread:

People often use 8-11 to suggest Paul was telling them to turn from Judaism (e.g. not keep the Sabbath). But as I just showed you, these were gentiles that never knew God to begin with. Verse 8 shows they have never been Jewish in their lives. Every cult/pagan society has its own Sabbath days/holy days and feast days etc. What do you think Easter was birthed from? What they were turning back to was the pagan traditions and associated special days that they once knew.
How can you read this and say “gentiles are turning back to observing the holy Sabbath”, when they were previously worshipping false gods. Another part of Galatians that is totally misunderstood.
Paul is saying that you were once enslaved by a pagan religious system that took advantage of you (you had to perform ceremonies, rituals etc), and if you now follow these religious groups that believe you are saved by works, you are no different to when you were enslaved under the pagan gods you worshipped. But believe in Jesus that you are saved by faith, and not like them (the circumcision group) who boast and think they are saved by their own works.


That was from my thread. I say again, how can they who never knew God, are now being begged to turn from the bondage they never knew.

4:8 "“Formerly, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those who by nature are not gods.”

THAT is the bondage. Come on friend, how can a rabbi say the word of God is bondage? Chei. That is blasphemy

and rolling on the floor! So the context of Galatians Epistle is ^ the highlighted in RED Just answer simple question o, don't go copy and paste because I really wanna deal with you today.

Goshen360:

The Law says DO THIS and GOD does that. Grace says DO this BECAUSE God had already DONE THAT. What is it that is not clear in my teachings?

So what does 'grace' say exactly?
Because this 'new law' that you advocate came out of a brief encounter on the road to Damascus. I wonder just how much God said to Paul that caused you to think of a fluffy new set of laws by which all you need to do is acknowledge God exists and that qualifies you to enter the Kingdom.

See, if one truly believes God exists, he will use all his strength to please God. What pleases him? When we obey his commandments.

Goshen360:


and rolling on the floor! So the context of Galatians Epistle is ^ the highlighted in RED Just answer simple question o, don't go copy and paste because I really wanna deal with you today.

I copied my own words from other thread. I don't think you are worthy of a fresh response. Not all of it was meant for you, but you are a man of wisdom, are you not.