just curious about what u guys think.

litrarily herbal medcine or herbs is presumed to function as a result of recited incantations, believed to be evil.
the common african society tends to support this, notably in the name of juju and voodoo, which many of us have probably heard about.

but in the name of herbs, the likes of Dr Ayeni are selling drugs to cure several ailments. I have my doubts.
while medcine might have advanced to the use of herbs, does this fast growing practice in nigeria have a spiritual undertone?

well, herbal medication cannot absolutely be said to have spiritual undertone. While some herbal stuffs require incartations and the likes , some just come plain.
For instance, ppl take lemon grass, teabags (lipton , bongo etc) as antimalaria, while some use honey to treat some ailments. This is done without necessarily bringing forth incartations.
For the likes of Yemkem et al, they started with the incartation level, now that the biz is getting bigger, incartation would only be made on some , to rep the batch of product.

For the kind of herbal medicine that requires incantation, of course , spiritual undertone is evident, cos all that is said is to invke the "powers" of the authorities being sought on the medice.

@ Topic

If Jesus ever fell sick while He was on earth, what would he have used?

It is spirituality that has a herbal undertone.

Pastor AIO:

It is spirituality that has a herbal undertone.

uhmn!

how??

hmmnn I don't knowwww

noetic:

uhmn!

how??

There is spirituality in everything and it all goes hand in hand. Traditional societies all over the world believed that trees were inhabited by spirits,nymphs and the like. Well with that in mind I could well decide not to plant any trees in my garden. Heck let's cut all the trees in the world down.

To be honest, when I said it was spirituality that had a herbal undertone I was being tongue in cheek. I was reacting against what I perceived as the self loathing that we africans have for all things african. That was presumptions that I would like to take back if you don't mind. Sorry.

I want to bring this thread up again because of a conversation I had not too long ago with a JW. He was against the use of drugs. He said it was sorcery and God hates it. I found it hard to argue with him because nowhere in the bible could I find an example of someone using drugs to heal themselves. and then he quoted scripture for me.

Revelation 21:8 τοῖς δὲ δειλοῖς καὶ ἀπίστοις καὶ ἐβδελυγμένοις καὶ φονεῦσιν καὶ πόρνοις καὶ φαρμάκοις καὶ εἰδωλολάτραις καὶ πᾶσιν τοῖς ψευδέσιν τὸ μέρος αὐτῶν ἐν τῇ λίμνῃ τῇ καιομένῃ πυρὶ καὶ θείῳ, ὅ ἐστιν ὁ θάνατος ὁ δεύτερος.

But for the cowardly, unbelieving, sinners, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their part is in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death."

φαρμάκοις is pharmakoi which is translated as sorcerer. The same word is used to refer to drugs. In fact that is where we get our english word Pharmacy for drug related issues.

The idea of drugs and sorcery is linked in Greek language. I tried to explain to him that this is the case in many languages but a difference is recognised according to context. For instance in yoruba the word Ogun means both herbal medicine and magical practice. But when you tell a yoruba man to take his ogun for headache he understands that you don't mean he should do magic.
Alas the guy, not being a yoruba speaker did not get my point. As for as he was concerned Drug use and Sorcery are one and the same thing and those that do it will end up in the lake of fire.

What do you guys think?

most times it does, especially in africa.

Pastor AIO:

I want to bring this thread up again because of a conversation I had not too long ago with a JW. He was against the use of drugs. He said it was sorcery and God hates it. I found it hard to argue with him because nowhere in the bible could I find an example of someone using drugs to heal themselves. and then he quoted scripture for me.

Sure it was a JW? Or perhaps he was talking about sorcery and got the word drug mixed up? ALL the ones I know use medicinal drugs and encourage their use.

MyJoe:

Sure it was a JW? Or perhaps he was talking about sorcery and got the word drug mixed up? ALL the ones I know use medicinal drugs and encourage their use.

Actually I got it mixed up. He was talking about recreational drugs, igbo etc, and someone else brought in medicinal drugs. He said smoking igbo and other drugs was invited evil spirits and it leads sorcery. The guy was a recovered addict. Someone else extended what he was saying to all drugs.

As a reformed igbo expert, i can confirm that it makes one feel like a sorcerer in a dreamlike realm . . .

Deep Sight:

As a reformed igbo expert, i can confirm that it makes one feel like a sorcerer in a dreamlike realm . . .

I knew it!!

Pastor AIO:

I knew it!!

Lol. Have never denied it. School days sha.

But more seriously, the altered state of mind that it produces (at least for the spiritually minded), is mind-blowing (pun intended).

It enables one to view the world in all its astounding strangeness.

And I use that word "strangeness" . . . very advisedly.

Only when one is under igbo can one recognise something as simple and yet as strange as the fact that a man walking down the street is a very strange phenomenon and that men do not belong to nature as known on earth.

But abeg. Make I sharrap before una carry me go yaba-left.

Tried it once at the Bar Beach. I dream small sha.

Much of the "secret" to healthy and radiant life lie in what we refer to as nature. Herbs just like air are simply physical encapsulation of precipitated radiations of God. He who knows how to uncover or de-envelope air or herbs will be able to liberate the specific energy in them, energy that can literally work what we term miracles.  If we are shown how to eat, how to breathe and how to drink from infancy, then almost all the present illnesses that torment us today will cease to exist. When we start to see that what we eat, drink or breathe in its pure form is energy, then it will dawn on us that an incorrect mixing of the energies or uncontrolled liberation of the energies trapped in these so called physical things will lead to disaster. Today, science is already looking to find antimicrobial, anticancer drugs etc from herbs and they will certainly find but that is just a tip of the iceberg. The antimicrobial and anticancer drugs that are already found and will be found in these herbs are still trapped energy. There potency will benefit many but it is infinitesimal compared to tapping the "pure" energy from these herbs. A herbalist that is called by God can release the energy trapped in these herbs and produce results that are indeed miraculous. There are two things, the encapsulated energy in the raw herb  and the released energy from the herb. Science and every person can make use of the encapsulated energy but only the one called by God can mediate the power that releases the energy. It is for this reason that a blessed herbalist can achieve results with a particular herb or combinations of herbs which is not possible for others not called for it or even science to achieve. In addition, a blessed herbalist can combine herbs for person "A" and it will work and when used on person "B" it will not work and the opposite is also true. A blessed herbalist intuitively or consciously  sees the energy spectrum of his patients and tailore his prescriptions to suit the particular individual. Science is gradually moving towards personalized medicine but gifted servants of God have practiced personalized medicine for thousands of years. Best wishes.

Greetings M_Nwankwo

m_nwankwo:

If we are shown how to eat, how to breathe and how to drink from infancy, then almost all the present illnesses that torment us today will cease to exist.

The is the principle behind Yoga.

m_nwankwo:
A blessed herbalist intuitively or consciously  sees the energy spectrum of his patients and tailore his prescriptions to suit the particular individual.

This appears to be the principle behind Ayurvedic medicine. But they don't just rely on intuition anymore. Over thousands of years quizzes have been formulated to enable an individual determine his own energy spectrum or something like that and work out what suits him.

MyJoe:

Greetings M_Nwankwo
The is the principle behind Yoga.
This appears to be the principle behind Ayurvedic medicine. But they don't just rely on intuition anymore. Over thousands of years quizzes have been formulated to enable an individual determine his own energy spectrum or something like that and work out what suits him.

Hi Myjoe,

Sadly what happened with Ayurvedic  medicine as you pointed above is happening in every "spiritual" endeavor. A connection with God, the creator of all the worlds is essential for for the will of God to be manifest. Individuals who have these gifts or are blessed by God faithfully fulfill their mission and when they depart this earth life, there successors do not have the same ability and that is the beginning of distortions that we see in healing arts and similar stuff. Just an example, a man was given the gift of herbal medicine. Intuitively he is guided from ABOVE on what herbs do singly and in combination. He shares his knowledge with his apprentices including some of his children. These apprentices can learn from the blessed herbalist but they do not have the ability to receive guidance on herbs and its usage from God. From there apprenticeship, they learn various recipes which the blessed herbalists uses for different illness. Now the blessed herbalists passes on and the eldest child stepped into his shoes and continue the healing art. All that he has are rigid recipes that lacked the mobility of intuitive guidance  that his father was blessed with. Soon he comes to the realization that the prescriptions he learned from his blessed father is not working as it used to be. His herbal healing practice is loosing clients in droves. The survival of the healing practice is at stake. Now he has two choices: to be honest with his clients that he does not have the ability of his Father or pretend that he has the same ability as his father. Unfortunately, many follow the later and that is the beginning of charlatanism. Because he has no ability, he consciously or unconsciously exaggerates the success of his practice, indulges in outward bizarre display to convince his patients that he is guided. He tries to force himself into a trance and murmur some mumbo jumbo claiming to hear from the guides of his departed father or from his departed father. While his father silently prays to God to release the power in the herbs, his son turns every prescription into a ritual,   Thus what was once pure and mobile has become rigid and lacked life. This example with the blessed herbalist and his son that inherited his herbal medicine practice can be applied to all so called "spiritual" endeavors. One thing is clear, enthusiasm, learning or training cannot replace God-given ability and for an endeavor to manifest the power of God, mediators of that endeavor must have the ability that allow them to be guided by God. In addition even for the one who has the ability, such a person must be pure and honest and have the humility to tell those who look up to him that this ability is simply a gift of God. Thus all gratitude should and must be directed to GOD. All genuine servants of God in all spheres of life oppose personality cults. As always stay blessed.

^^^ Not sure I fully understand it, but if it's as you say, I guess the successors are just trying to fill a vacuum that has got to be filled.

Thank you for your response above.

what herbal medicine r we talkin about here , is it the normal boiled leaves, roots , seeds stuff drunk normally or is the same type but this time, u av a time frame and dress code or some other things to be done b4 drinkin it?

yes it does. bu nid 2 go to d riigh herbalist/shaman n na jus any fraud out der. ma grandma used 2 make dat stuff to cure day-2-day aiments. me mom still does.

You may have heard stories of people who traveled abroad to try ayahuasca, the psychoactive drink. You can read more about what is ayahuasca to be more advanced.

Generally, these anecdotes tend to focus on the immediate effects that occur during the ayahuasca "journey", some of which are enlightening while others are downright distressing.

However, scientists have found several long-term health benefits from taking ayahuasca.

PastorAIO:


Actually I got it mixed up. He was talking about recreational drugs, igbo etc, and someone else brought in medicinal drugs. He said smoking igbo and other drugs was invited evil spirits and it leads sorcery. The guy was a recovered addict. Someone else extended what he was saying to all drugs.

JWs actually support the use of medicines,drugs recommended by medical professionals but we are against recreational use of addictive, harmful substances in order to get "high",in order words,drug misuse and abuse of drugs.

Janosky:

JWs actually support the use of medicines,drugs recommended by medical professionals but we are against recreational use of addictive, harmful substances in order to get "high",in order words,drug misuse and abuse of drugs.

@underlined - so it must be a PROFESSIONAL but you entrusted your own interpretation of the Bible to UNPROFESSIONAL people at Bethel