debosky: ^^

Nothing unscriptural about giving a percentage of your income to the group of believers you fellowship with, be it tithe or tenth or any other percentage. Whether you like it or not, instances of abuse or even prevalence of abuse cannot and will not render the genuine giving of others invalid.

Don't make your opinion into a rule, else you're doing the same thing as you're accusing others of doing.

Now I understand your point, yes pay your club fees or tithes or whatever it is called to your MOG, but dont call it tithe to God because the money does not go to God or his people in most cases.

My opinion : Spread your wealth to the brethren and your neighbors, all the unfortunate ones around you , Gods house is not a casino

debosky:

No you can't - many tithe of their own volition and it is acceptable to God as true giving. Your man made condemnation is meaningless in their regard.

So you see, you just want your own rules to replace the rules of others. No difference.

You are wrong here Debo, many tithe because they have been deceived into believing that God requires it of them as believers. The real problem remains preachers who use a very potent weapon (the word of God) to manipulate people into believing God demands a tithe of their income.

frosbel:

Now I understand your point, yes pay your club fees or tithes or whatever it is called to your MOG, but dont call it tithe to God because the money does not go to God or his people in most cases.

My opinion : Spread your wealth to the brethren and your neighbors, all the unfortunate ones around you , Gods house is not a casino

Tithe in English Language can be defined as one-tenth of income donated voluntarily for support of the elders/ministers, so yes it can be validly called tithe and be acceptable to God. Last I checked, ministers/elders are also your brethren/God's people too.

Again, the abuse of some/many/most does not invalidate the acts of those doing it from the right perspective and motives.

Pastor Kun:

You are wrong here Debo, many tithe because they have been deceived into believing that God requires it of them as believers. The real problem remains preachers who use a very potent weapon (the word of God) to manipulate people into believing God demands a tithe of their income.

I'm not talking of those misled here, I'm talking about those doing so voluntarily in full knowledge that it's not a requirement. No one is authorised to condemn tithing wholesale simply because it's abused by many/most.

debosky:

Tithe in English Language can be defined as one-tenth of income donated voluntarily for support of the elders/ministers, so yes it can be validly called tithe and be acceptable to God. Last I checked, ministers/elders are also your brethren/God's people too.

Again, the abuse of some/many/most does not invalidate the acts of those doing it from the right perspective and motives.



I'm not talking of those misled here, I'm talking about those doing so voluntarily in full knowledge that it's not a requirement. No one is authorised to condemn tithing wholesale simply because it's abused by many/most.

Well an overwhelming majority of tithers tithe because they have been misled.

debosky:

I'm not talking of those misled here, I'm talking about those doing so voluntarily in full knowledge that it's not a requirement. No one is authorised to condemn tithing wholesale simply because it's abused by many/most.

Irrespective of how and when you pay this so called 'tithe' , it is not money paid to God , God does not need a paycheck. Besides, any monies not used for the intended purposes as laid down by Jesus and supported by early church accounts is 'useless' and does not further the truth.

So, pay your 'tithe' , 1 % 10000% , your prerogative, but do not bring the name of God into it.

Pastor Kun:

Well an overwhelming majority of tithers tithe because they have been misled.

People Tithe for the following reasons :

1. Fear of a curse from the devourer as screamed from most pulpits on a Sunday, quoting Malachi 3:9 but not Malachi 1:6.
2. Fear that they may lose health, income and even life if they do not pay this fee
3. Fear of Hell
4. Gambling, akin to money doubling only in this case it does not materialize because God is not a money doubler.
5. Brainwashing or indoctrination that the money is for God and the Temple is the church , which we know is total nonsense.

These 5 reasons account for 99.999% of reasons why people pay the tithe , it has nothing to do with GOD , though if you give money or even use this concept ignorantly , but the money goes to really help the needy ( 0.1% of cases ) you will be blessed.

frosbel:

People Tithe for the following reasons :

1. Fear of a curse from the devourer as screamed from most pulpits on a Sunday, quoting Malachi 3:9 but not Malachi 1:6.
2. Fear that they may lose health, income and even life if they do not pay this fee
3. Fear of Hell
4. Gambling, akin to money doubling only in this case it does not materialize because God is not a money doubler.
5. Brainwashing or indoctrination that the money is for God and the Temple is the church , which we know is total nonsense.

These 5 reasons account for 99.999% of reasons why people pay the tithe , it has nothing to do with GOD , though if you give money or even use this concept ignorantly , but the money goes to really help the needy ( 0.1% of cases ) you will be blessed.

I know a clinical trial from america, from different Universities about the healing prayer they make in the new churches in America and they are the same like this new churches in Nigeria and the truth is that they didnot find that prayer or this so called great man of God could realy heal there followers from ther illness. The truth is that many people die and also some so called great man of God couldnot help the own familymember when they where sick. I know from one so called great man of God you dies on cancer and he couldnot help himself.

Pastor Kun:

Well an overwhelming majority of tithers tithe because they have been misled.

This may well be true, but that still does not permit a crass generalisation that all tithe = daylight robbery and theft.

frosbel:

Irrespective of how and when you pay this so called 'tithe' , it is not money paid to God , God does not need a paycheck. Besides, any monies not used for the intended purposes as laid down by Jesus and supported by early church accounts is 'useless' and does not further the truth.

So, pay your 'tithe' , 1 % 10000% , your prerogative, but do not bring the name of God into it.

God loves a cheerful giver - I or anyone else can give tithe as I've decided in my heart, not under compulsion and in a cheerful manner so I can bring God's name into it because He brought his name into it.

Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

Your opinion is completely irrelevant in this regard and is no more than another man-made rule.

debosky:

God loves a cheerful giver - I or anyone else can give tithe as I've decided in my heart, not under compulsion and in a cheerful manner so I can bring God's name into it because He brought his name into it.

Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

Your opinion is completely irrelevant in this regard and is no more than another man-made rule.

You do not give to GOD when the money does not go to the intended recipients or is used for another purpose !

frosbel:
You do not give to GOD when the money does not go to the intended recipients or is used for another purpose !

The above was never in debate, duh.

Pay attention - your blanket condemnation of tithe is the issue. The latter is simply frosbel's man-made rule and no different from those you seek to criticise.

debosky:

The above was never in debate, duh.

good !

Pay attention - your blanket condemnation of tithe is the issue. The latter is simply frosbel's man-made rule and no different from those you seek to criticise.

And I stand by it, if it is not truth then it is a lie. Besides asking the poor to pay tithe is also robbery -

frosbel:
And I stand by it, if it is not truth then it is a lie. Besides asking the poor to pay tithe is also robbery -

So people should not follow other man made rules, but should follow the rules of frosbel.

Do I see the definition of hypocrite here?

You cannot make a blanket condemnation of tithe - regardless of how much it is abused.

Christians can give tithe in a truthful, voluntary and cheerful way that is acceptable to God. No amount of noise by frosbel can change that.

debosky:

So people should not follow other man made rules, but should follow the rules of frosbel.

Do I see the definition of hypocrite here?

You cannot make a blanket condemnation of tithe - regardless of how much it is abused.

Christians can give tithe in a truthful, voluntary and cheerful way that is acceptable to God. No amount of noise by frosbel can change that.

"That is acceptable to God" is a good qualifying statement which I agree with and I dare add that a huge chunk of the loot does not go to God.

I repeat : The modern day Tithe is a fraud , no amount of noise from Debosky can change that.

frosbel:
"That is acceptable to God" is a good qualifying statement which I agree with and I dare add that a huge chunk of the loot does not go to God.

Finally we are getting through.

I repeat : The modern day Tithe is a fraud , no amount of noise from Debosky can change that.

Not quite there yet, you'll need to define what 'modern day tithe' means in order to make what you're saying clear. At least now you've moved on from a blanket condemnation of tithe, which was the intent all along.

debosky:


Not quite there yet, you'll need to define what 'modern day tithe' means in order to make what you're saying clear. At least now you've moved on from a blanket condemnation of tithe, which was the intent all along.

No, I have not, it remains.