Was Judas Iscariot saved or did he lose his salvation?

OLAADEGBU: Was Judas Iscariot saved or did he lose his salvation?

I have thought about that too. But Jesus made a statement about Judas that pretty much describes someone who is doomed.

Mark 14v20-21

"And He (Jesus) answered and saith unto them, It is one of the twelve, that dippeth with me in the dish.

The Son of man indeed goeth, as it is written of Him: but woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! GOOD WERE IT FOR THAT MAN IF HE HAD NEVER BEEN BORN"

I don't think it is good for any man to had NEVER been born IF he made it to heaven. No matter how rough or bad your life was or is; if you make it to heaven, it is still good you were born.

I believe the ONLY end scenario that would make NEVER BEEN BORN a good thing is IF the person ends up in Hell and the Lake of fire.

And Jesus said concerning the person who would betray him, that it were good for that man if he had never been born.

If we do the math; it can imply only one thing about the end of Judas.

my Brother, don't mind these false teachers who teach that "once saved always saved" Judas is on the other side of eternity, he lost his salvation by failing to forgive himself and consequently taking his life.

Soloter: my Brother, don't mind these false teachers who teach that "once saved always saved" Judas is on the other side of eternity, he lost his salvation by failing to forgive himself and consequently taking his life.

Well, some people might argue with you that Judas was NEVER even saved

Look at this statement of Jesus about Judas:

John 6v70-71 -Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, AND ONE OF YOU IS A DEVIL?

He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray Him, being one of the twelve.

Notice, this statement was made by Jesus about a year before His crucifixion. So Judas had been A DEVIL all along. Coz Jesus did not say one of you WAS or SHALL BE a Devil! But IS A DEVIL.

So its arguable from here that He was NEVER saved.

Then even if he was saved and did lose his salvation, I don't think it would be for the reasons you gave up there -that he didn't forgive himself and he took his own life.

If Judas lost his salvation, It would be because he stopped believing Jesus is the Messiah. It was because Judas did not believe -or stopped believing that Jesus is the Messiah that he chose to betray Him.

John 6v64 -But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not; and who should betray Him.

Salvation is by grace through faith, and it can only be lost through unbelief.

No one can say for sure that Judas is in Hell. It takes more than the act of committing suicide to say that someone has gone to Hell. There are a number of factors we still have to put into consideration. Some of which would be:

1) The level of Grace granted to that individual.
2) The individual's knowledge of what is sinful.
3) The individual's willingness to commit the sin.
4) The sin is one that leads to 'death'.

It is very possible for someone who committed suicide to be truly sorry for the wrong done just before the individual breath's his last. No one, who sincerely call on the Lord with a repentant heart, will suffer the pangs of Hell for all eternity.

^^^
Re: Is Judas Iscariot Really A Villain?
- between BabaGnoni and shdemidemi:
https://www.nairaland.com/1820451/judas-iscariot-really-villain/1#24840613

striktlymi: No one can say for sure that Judas is in Hell. It takes more than the act of committing suicide to say that someone has gone to Hell. There are a number of factors we still have to put into consideration. Some of which would be:

1) The level of Grace granted to that individual.
2) The individual's knowledge of what is sinful.
3) The individual's willingness to commit the sin.
4) The sin is one that leads to 'death'.

It is very possible for someone who committed suicide to be truly sorry for the wrong done just before the individual breath's his last. No one, who sincerely call on the Lord with a repentant heart, will suffer the pangs of Hell for all eternity.

the picture Jesus paints of Judas, as the one "who chose to be lost", he who "it is better he was never born". Leave me with almost certainty that Judas actually was lost. He died with his sins intact.

ayoku777:



I have thought about that too. But Jesus made a statement about Judas that pretty much describes someone who is doomed.

Mark 14v20-21

"And He (Jesus) answered and saith unto them, It is one of the twelve, that dippeth with me in the dish.

The Son of man indeed goeth, as it is written of Him: but woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! GOOD WERE IT FOR THAT MAN IF HE HAD NEVER BEEN BORN"

I don't think it is good for any man to had NEVER been born IF he made it to heaven. No matter how rough or bad your life was or is; if you make it to heaven, it is still good you were born.

I believe the ONLY end scenario that would make NEVER BEEN BORN a good thing is IF the person ends up in Hell and the Lake of fire.

And Jesus said concerning the person who would betray him, that it were good for that man if he had never been born.

If we do the math; it can imply only one thing about the end of Judas.

I don't think Jesus meant eternal damnation by saying 'good were it for judas if he was never born', it could have meant the shame and the manner at which judas took his own life. If Jesus was referring to judas' salvation, He would not say-
Matthew 19
28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Jesus was speaking to the twelve special disciples, judas inclusive.

Ubenedictus:

the picture Jesus paints of Judas, as the one "who chose to be lost", he who "it is better he was never born". Leave me with almost certainty that Judas actually was lost. He died with his sins intact.

I don't think Jesus lost any of the disciples.. He couldn't have. If God is the one who works in believers to choose to believe, I don't think it is in the hands of man to de-save or refuse to heed. The bible says 'in the days of God's power, His people shall be willing', when God calls everything within you responds to that call.

John 15:16
16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

Ubenedictus:

the picture Jesus paints of Judas, as the one "who chose to be lost", he who "it is better he was never born". Leave me with almost certainty that Judas actually was lost. He died with his sins intact.

True!

But the question we should ask is whether Jesus was making reference to the Earthly life of Judas or the life after. Jesus called him the son of perdition which could mean one doomed for eternal damnation or a destructive end.

If we extend the meaning to life eternal, then I may be obliged to hold that Judas is surely in Hell but given that Judas took his life as a result of guilt for the wrong he did such that he was blind to the infinite mercies of God; it may be argued that he probably repented at the point the suicide was in progress.

Surely, he was not happy with what he dd to Jesus. A true son of perdition (like the Anti Christ) would be elated to do a wrong of that magnitude. Judas was not; which may indicate that the perdition talked about may just be related to just his Earthly life.

Also, it could be argued that Judas never had sufficient grace to overcome the temptation that was before him, unlike Peter who had the Master intercede directly on his behalf. If one's grace is not sufficient, that individual cannot be accused of a grave sin.

shdemidemi:

I don't think Jesus meant eternal damnation by saying 'good were it for judas if he was never born', it could have meant the shame and the manner at which judas took his own life. If Jesus was referring to judas' salvation, He would not say-
Matthew 19
28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Jesus was speaking to the twelve special disciples, judas inclusive.

That's a good point and very thoughtful too. But let's weigh those two statements of Christ.

If Judas still gets to sit on a throne in the kindgom of God and judge the twelve tribes in the millenial, is it still better for him not to have been born because he ended his earthly ministry shamefully?

So not being born and not existing at all is better than ending your earthly life shamefully, even though you still get to sit on a throne and judge and have authority in the age to come

I believe, what that promise to sit on thrones and judge proves is that "Pre-destination is not cast in iron", and "Pre-destination does not over-ride freewill or personal choice".

You still need to believe to the end to be saved. When Jesus told Peter to "Come" on the water, Peter walked on water. But when He stopped believing he fell. The word "Come" did not keep him walking independently of his choice to keep believing. You can't stop believing in Christ as the Messiah and expect the promise Christ made to you as a believer or His follower to still stand. Pre-destination is not cast in iron.

Jesus when praying to the Father in John 17v12:

"While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: THOSE THAT THOU GAVEST ME I have kept, and NONE OF THEM IS LOST, BUT the son of perdition; that the scriptures might be fulfilled."

I believe Judas was the son of perdition in this passage, not the Devil, coz Jesus was talking about THOSE THAT THOU GAVEST ME. And He said none of them is lost BUT or EXCEPT. Jesus didn't lose the Devil.

The son of perdition here was someone among THOSE THAT THOU GAVEST ME

Ubenedictus:

the picture Jesus paints of Judas, as the one "who chose to be lost", he who "it is better he was never born". Leave me with almost certainty that Judas actually was lost. He died with his sins intact.

Erm... Just a thought... The bible record most times that Jesus knew it who was going to betray. Now, its clear Judas was acting according to the will in line with Christ's mission on earth. Now assuming Judas after listening to Christ's statement (it is better he was never born) decided to repent, who would have betrayed Christ...

ayoku777:



I have thought about that too. But Jesus made a statement about Judas that pretty much describes someone who is doomed.

Mark 14v20-21

"And He (Jesus) answered and saith unto them, It is one of the twelve, that dippeth with me in the dish.

The Son of man indeed goeth, as it is written of Him: but woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! GOOD WERE IT FOR THAT MAN IF HE HAD NEVER BEEN BORN"

I don't think it is good for any man to had NEVER been born IF he made it to heaven. No matter how rough or bad your life was or is; if you make it to heaven, it is still good you were born.

I believe the ONLY end scenario that would make NEVER BEEN BORN a good thing is IF the person ends up in Hell and the Lake of fire.

And Jesus said concerning the person who would betray him, that it were good for that man if he had never been born.

If we do the math; it can imply only one thing about the end of Judas.

I must respectfully disagree with you here.

Remember, what Judas did Peter did. Judas betrayed Jesus while Peter denied Jesus. Equal sins against Jesus. To deny somebody when he needed you most is a callous stab in the back, much the same, if not worse, as a deceitful kiss on the cheeks. If Peter had died when he denied Jesus, it would have been as shameful as Judas' death.

The difference is that Peter repented of his denial. He knew Jesus would forgive him. On the other hand, Judas decided to take his life knowing full well Jesus would still forgive him if he repented.

What Judas did is what millions of Christians continue to do; they keep nailing Jesus to the cross by denying Him and going back to the world.

Jesus knew the end of Judas; He knew how Judas' life would end and that is why He made that statement.

If the statement meant that Judas would lose his salvation and end up in hell because he betrayed Jesus, then what hope is there for Christians as we betray Jesus many times by our words and actions?

ayoku777:

That's a good point and very thoughtful too. But let's weigh those two statements of Christ.

If Judas still gets to sit on a throne in the kindgom of God and judge the twelve tribes in the millenial, is it still better for him not to have been born because he ended his earthly ministry shamefully?

So not being born and not existing at all is better than ending your earthly life shamefully, even though you still get to sit on a throne and judge and have authority in the age to come

I believe, what that promise to sit on thrones and judge proves is that "Pre-destination is not cast in iron", and "Pre-destination does not over-ride freewill or personal choice".

I do not think anyone in Christ will be ashamed on that day based on their works. No man could have been justified by their works anyway, we are all bad just as judas or more. But, Christ stands in the gap to justify us as if we were not guilty of sins.

Paul revealed a mystery between a righteousness that comes by keeping the law and a righteousness through belief in Christ.
Romans
10 Brothers and sisters, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is that they may be saved. 2 For I can testify about them that they are zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge. 3 Since they did not know the righteousness of God and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness. 4 Christ is the culmination of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.

If God were to judge us based on our own righteousness, it will be impossible to meet God's standard of righteousness. Based on this, I believe judas shame is limited to his body and not his soul.

ayoku777:

You still need to believe to the end to be saved. When Jesus told Peter to "Come" on the water, Peter walked on water. But when He stopped believing he fell. The word "Come" did not keep him walking independently of his choice to keep believing. You can't stop believing in Christ as the Messiah and expect the promise Christ made to you as a believer or His follower to still stand. Pre-destination is not cast in iron.

The bible says 'the gift of God is without repentance', Salvation is a gift to anyone who believe and not a wage that we must work to acquire. It can't be of works and be of grace at the same time, can it?

As for Peter, if you check the verse properly, another miracle happened there that we do not seem to take note of. Peter never sank, the bible say he was beginning to sink... I don't think it takes more than a second to sink, but he had time to call Jesus, Jesus had time to go to him before pulling a man of Peter's size.

ayoku777:
Jesus when praying to the Father in John 17v12:

"While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: THOSE THAT THOU GAVEST ME I have kept, and NONE OF THEM IS LOST, BUT the son of perdition; that the scriptures might be fulfilled."

I believe Judas was the son of perdition in this passage, not the Devil, coz Jesus was talking about THOSE THAT THOU GAVEST ME. And He said none of them is lost BUT or EXCEPT. Jesus didn't lose the Devil.

The son of perdition here was someone among THOSE THAT THOU GAVEST ME

The son of perdition couldn't be judas.. If he was, then God must have made a mistake when He called him to be one of the special disciples.. You and I know that isn't the case.

The son of perdition is in the world is the devil himself. The only person that can not be forgiven is the devil. Judas was remorseful, he tried returning the money he got from betraying Jesus. I believe God forgave him.

Judas was never saved short and simple.John 6:70-71 nailed it for me.

Jesus emphatically said Judas is a devil, he never said Judas is LIKE a devil. The way i see it God used the devil to achieve the salvation of man from sin. Funny isn't it? That the devil is the most used fellow to achieve the purposes of God. A mystery really.

Cain killed Abel a type and shadow replayed when Judas killed Jesus.

There is a vast difference between the betrayal of Judas and the denial of Peter. Peter Loved Jesus ( John 21:15-17) Judas did not if he did he wouldn't have discussed extensively with chief priests how he might betray Jesus looking for the slightest opportunity because of money. He was the money bag and he always helps himself to it. The love of money is the root of evil.

The betrayal wasn't a one day event like that of Peter's denial. It took months of calculative and adequate preparations by him to betray Jesus.

Jesus knew who loved him. He prayed for Peter.He never did for Judas. A lesson for us is Love conquers evil.

But Jesus called peter a devil too, didn't he?

Was he referring to the inward man in them as the devil or the outward influence of evil they were exposed to?

shdemidemi: But Jesus called peter a devil too, didn't he?

Was he referring to the inward man in them as the devil or the outward influence of evil they were exposed to?

Peter yielded to the things that pleases the sense/flesh or carnality. He thought he was doing the right thing by appealing to emotions. Jesus sharp rebuke was against the spirit behind those words spoken and not against peter.It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.John 6:63


Satan always appeal to sensual knowledge that is the way he operates.
This wisdom is not a wisdom that cometh down from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish. James 3:15

That wisdom is of course corrupted by the fallen nature of man.
Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
.......the wisdom which none of the rulers of this age has understood; for if they had understood it they would not have crucified the Lord of glory; 1 Cor 2:6/8.

Jesus had to fulfill the Father's will for the Holy Spirit( the wisdom giver) to be released at Pentecost.

(1 Corinthians 2:10-14 NKJV) But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. {11} For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. {12} Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God. {13} These things we also speak, not in words which man's wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. {14} But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.


16do not cease giving thanks for you, while making mention of you in my prayers; 17that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you a [size=16pt]spirit of wisdom[/size] and of revelation in the knowledge of Him Eph 1.

You did not get the argument- you said:

Bidam:
Jesus emphatically said Judas is a devil, he never said Judas is LIKE a devil. The way i see it God used the devil to achieve the salvation of man from sin.

He called Peter a devil too, didn't he?

Going by your quote, is Peter the devil too?

shdemidemi:

I don't think Jesus meant eternal damnation by saying 'good were it for judas if he was never born', it could have meant the shame and the manner at which judas took his own life. If Jesus was referring to judas' salvation, He would not say-
Matthew 19
28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Jesus was speaking to the twelve special disciples, judas inclusive.

or i could say he was speaking in prophesy of the twelve with matthais instead of judas.

shdemidemi:

I don't think Jesus lost any of the disciples.. He couldn't have. If God is the one who works in believers to choose to believe, I don't think it is in the hands of man to de-save or refuse to heed. The bible says 'in the days of God's power, His people shall be willing', when God calls everything within you responds to that call.

John 15:16
16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

when i said Judas was lost i wasn't trying to be smart i was alluding to the words of Jesus.

"while i was with them, I kept them in thy name, which thou hast given me; I guarded them and none of them is lost [b]but the son of perdition, that the scriptures might be fulfilled" Jn 17;12

those where the words of Christ, none was lost BUT, he who chose to be lost, the son of pedition.


From the context, judas is as lost as lost can be.

striktlymi:
True!
But the question we should ask is whether Jesus was making reference to the Earthly life of Judas or the life after. Jesus called him the son of perdition which could mean one doomed for eternal damnation or a destructive end.

If we extend the meaning to life eternal, then I may be obliged to hold that Judas is surely in Hell but given that Judas took his life as a result of guilt for the wrong he did such that he was blind to the infinite mercies of God; it may be argued that he probably repented at the point the suicide was in progress.

Surely, he was not happy with what he dd to Jesus. A true son of perdition (like the Anti Christ) would be elated to do a wrong of that magnitude. Judas was not; which may indicate that the perdition talked about may just be related to just his Earthly life.

i beg to differ, the one who was lost, the son of perdition, who it would have been better he wasn't born, that doesn't sound like a life that ended in salvation. If i messed up big time and fooled myself and repented at the ended then i couldn't be described as "it would have been better he wasn't born". I would be like the good thief who managed to steal the kingdom of God with his last acts.

If judas did repent then he is a happy man the words of Jesus would mean little.

Also, it could be argued that Judas never had sufficient grace to overcome the temptation that was before him, unlike Peter who had the Master intercede directly on his behalf. If one's grace is not sufficient, that individual cannot be accused of a grave sin.

hmmm...i do not believe that God ever gives insufficient grace, in essence i think it is doctrinally flawed to even believe in an insufficient grace. God GIVES SUFFICIENT GRACE TO ALL MEN. God isn't the reason why one didn't resist temptation, grace is always sufficient, the only question is, is it efficient?

Put simply anyone who willingly sins gravely has commited mortal sin, no be God fault.

shdemidemi: You did not get the argument- you said:



He called Peter a devil too, didn't he?

Going by your quote, is Peter the devil too?

Did he directly tell Judas to his face that he was a devil? Like i said he was addressing the spirit behind the words of Peter. It was the same Jesus that called Peter the rock on which the revelation of what he said Jesus would build His Church. Was it ever mentioned that Jesus acknowledged Judas on any "revelation"?

Ubenedictus: i beg to differ, the one who was lost, the son of perdition, who it would have been better he wasn't born, that doesn't sound like a life that ended in salvation. If i messed up big time and fooled myself and repented at the ended then i couldn't be described as "it would have been better he wasn't born". I would be like the good thief who managed to steal the kingdom of God with his last acts.

If judas did repent then he is a happy man the words of Jesus would mean little.

The above still does not conclusively state that Judas is in Hell. The best we can do is assume! That assumption is the very reason I say no one knows for sure.

Ubenedictus:
hmmm...i do not believe that God ever gives insufficient grace, in essence i think it is doctrinally flawed to even believe in an insufficient grace. God GIVES SUFFICIENT GRACE TO ALL MEN. God isn't the reason why one didn't resist temptation, grace is always sufficient, the only question is, is it efficient?

Put simply anyone who willingly sins gravely has commited mortal sin, no be God fault.

Simply put: Grace is the undeserved favour we get from God which helps us on our journey of faith, without which we cannot become God's children. In Baptism we achieve the rare privilege of being adoptive Children of God here on Earth.

This privilege is not enjoyed by everyone. In other words, some are more favoured than others. The question then arises: at what point does someone receives enough Grace?

Is it at the point of baptism? the hour of our death? after we pass on? or is it all through life and beyond? Irrespective of when God decides to shower us with his graces, one thing is clear: it is desirable to do the will of God both now and the hereafter.

In my opinion, God's grace would be sufficient at the point where we have the 'tools' needed to achieve the desired height of sanctity both now and beyond. Not every man is given these 'tools', hence the insufficiency of God's Grace.

Bidam: Did he directly tell Judas to his face that he was a devil? Like i said he was addressing the spirit behind the words of Peter. It was the same Jesus that called Peter the rock on which the revelation of what he said Jesus would build His Church. Was it ever mentioned that Jesus acknowledged Judas on any "revelation"?

First- he didn't call Peter the rock on which the church will be built. The church is built on what Simon(the one that hears) heard.


The issue isn't how Jesus said it, where he said it or to whom it was said, but if he said it. He called them both devils does not mean they are actually the devil. God and God's plan is the only thing good, anything outside God is evil and the devil. We all have the devil in us, everytime we make statements or think outside God, we can as well be called devils.
2 cor 10
4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds

5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

The war we fight is the ability to suppress the force that propels our actions that are not within the confines of God's will. Only Jesus circumvented nature to come like a man but not as a man thus He didn't have the devil in him.

striktlymi:

The above still does not conclusively state that Judas is in Hell. The best we can do is assume! That assumption is the very reason I say no one knows for sure.



Simply put: Grace is the undeserved favour we get from God which helps us on our journey of faith, without which we cannot become God's children. In Baptism we achieve the rare privilege of being adoptive Children of God here on Earth.

This privilege is not enjoyed by everyone. In other words, some are more favoured than others. The question then arises: at what point does someone receives enough Grace?

Is it at the point of baptism? the hour of our death? after we pass on? or is it all through life and beyond? Irrespective of when God decides to shower us with his graces, one thing is clear: it is desirable to do the will of God both now and the hereafter.

In my opinion, God's grace would be sufficient at the point where we have the 'tools' needed to achieve the desired height of sanctity both now and beyond. Not every man is given these 'tools', hence the insufficiency of God's Grace.

I have heard about this 'level of grace' doctrine, is it scriptural?

Ubenedictus: when i said Judas was lost i wasn't trying to be smart i was alluding to the words of Jesus.

"while i was with them, I kept them in thy name, which thou hast given me; I guarded them and none of them is lost but the son of perdition, that the scriptures might be fulfilled" Jn 17;12

those where the words of Christ, none was lost BUT, he who chose to be lost, the son of pedition.


From the context, judas is as lost as lost can be.

John 17
12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

If judas suddenly becomes the son of perdition, what scripture could Jesus have been referring to?

Ubenedictus: or i could say he was speaking in prophesy of the twelve with matthais instead of judas.

No, asides Where Matthais was picked as a disciple, we heard nothing about him in scripture. God picked judas, He made no mistake picking him, he couldn't have.

Ubenedictus:

hmmm...i do not believe that God ever gives insufficient grace, in essence i think it is doctrinally flawed to even believe in an insufficient grace. God GIVES SUFFICIENT GRACE TO ALL MEN. God isn't the reason why one didn't resist temptation, grace is always sufficient, the only question is, is it efficient?

Put simply anyone who willingly sins gravely has commited mortal sin, no be God fault.

If I may ask, what is the essence of grace, could it be to help us live holy lives or a gift unto salvation?

shdemidemi:

No, asides Where Matthais was picked as a disciple, we heard nothing about him in scripture. God picked judas, He made no mistake picking him, he couldn't have.

first according to the scriptures matthias was with the apostles when the lord was amongst them, from the baptism to the asension. (act 1:21 follows) he wasn't a JJC.
Secondly i didn't say he made a mistake i simply repeated the words of Christ, that it was better he wasn't born, that he is the son of perdition who chose to be lost.

shdemidemi:
John 17
12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

If judas suddenly becomes the son of perdition, what scripture could Jesus have been referring to?

the son of perdition who fulfills scriptures is judas, the scripture he fulfils is ps 41:9

Ubenedictus:
first according to the scriptures matthias was with the apostles when the lord was amongst them, from the baptism to the asension. (act 1:21 follows) he wasn't a JJC.

I agree

Ubenedictus:
Secondly i didn't say he made a mistake i simply repeated the words of Christ, that it was better he wasn't born, that he is the son of perdition who chose to be lost.

He isn't the son of perdition bro, he couldn't have been.

Son of perdition describe one who is unsaved hereafter (the devil). God created man to show his attribute of love and mercy, no man can sin beyond God's grace.

'where sin abounded, grace did much more abound'