pickabeau1:


Let me know what you think

"We have class members who are firefighters with other jurisdictions. We have class members who are triathletes, marathon runners," said attorney Susan Malone, according to ABC Chicago. "No candidates were told what the required passing score was or how to achieve it, which made their training for the test significantly harder."

I think they had a point. These are people who are able to pass tests in other jurisdictions so why the lack of transperency. Switching to the CPAT test should make things more transparent and is the kind of solutions we should be looking to implement.

Rashaunda Dooley, whose mother is a Chicago firefighter, told ABC Chicago she just wants the chance to be like her mom.

"[Mom] would come home saying what she had to do," Dooley said. "And I'm like, 'Wow, my mom's a hero. She's making a difference.'"

These women were not looking for a free pass but for transparency. Good for them.

Pickabeau.

From what I read on the lawsuit, the method of testing was indeed arbitrary back then, how will one know for sure. that the women failed, if there really was no transparent method of testing?

I see now that has changed though, however, if firefighting is more about physical strength(i don't know much about it)then by all means, the tests should be largely based on that and more men will definitely excel above women in it, but if it's not more of physical strength, then the system of testing is biased.

You know, many people don't understand feminism, they think it's about wanting to be a man but it's not, it's just about giving women the chances a man has, if the woman is up to it, then let her do it,nothing like "no, it's not a woman's job" it's just that simple.

LordReed:


Is it a bat? Is it a train? It's Ssuuppeerr LordReed! *he swoops in and lifts bed and armoire on his head* Where you want it sugar?

In the atttic.

MrsChima:


In the atttic.

Attic here I come! Flazooom! *he drops it in the attic* Up, up and away!

Nonso23:


Is that not the exception This world is not ideal. You even acceded to people circumventing rules and still have a problem facing this reality.
That is a portfolio and should count for all the difference.
There is no bias. We are just being pragmatic. If you release a criminal on death row today for parole he will need to check back once in a while for the security agents to determine his level of threat to the society. He is not allowed to roam 'freely' unlike honest citizens smart enough to play by the rules. It doesn't matter whether he is truly changed or not, he will have to do more to prove himself and will not get a free pass. Very sensible system.

I cannot understand how not hiring a team mate who can significantly contribute to your team simply because she's a woman is not a bias. You call not hiring a high performer because she's a woman pragmatic? Wonderful.

Timbuktou:
LordReed
Nonso23
5MinsMadness
Pickabeau1

Feminists are welcome to explain this away. I'm all ears.

[b]If you’re ever trapped in a burning building, just pray the firefighter
climbing up to rescue you isn’t Rebecca Wax. Or someone like her, who’s
been given an EZ-Pass through firefighting training for the sake of gender
equity.
This week Wax, who repeatedly flunked the rigorous physical test
required by the New York City Fire Department, will graduate anyway,
The Post reported.
All over the nation, fire departments are easing physical standards, in
response to litigation to increase the number of women firefighters.
It’s roiling fire departments, and the turmoil is a preview of what’s to
come for the US military, which has committed to opening all combat
roles to women by 2016.
Wax tried six times to pass New York’s Functional Skills Test within the
17-minute, 50-second deadline. Five times she couldn’t finish at all; on
the sixth try, she needed 22 minutes. Women’s groups claim the test is
needlessly difficult and unfairly bars women.
Trainees wearing 50 pounds of gear and breathing through an air tank
must climb six stories, raise ladders, break down doors and drag a dummy
through a dark tunnel, all at breakneck speed. Sounds like firefighting.
The city’s test is tougher than some tests elsewhere, but city buildings are
higher. Nevertheless, Fire Commissioner Daniel Nigro gave Wax a pass
because she had good performance on other measures, including academic
tests.
Nigro wants to significantly boost the number of women in the FDNY —
now only 0.5 percent of the rank-and-file — and he wants to do it before
he’s staring at a court order.
Court orders are compelling Chicago to relax its standards. Two federal
class-action lawsuits brought by women who flunked that city’s
firefighting tests claimed that the exams required more than what is
actually needed to be an effective firefighter.
Women account for 3.4 percent of the Chicago force, compared with 5.7
percent of firefighters nationally. Chicago authorities settled the case last
month, admitting into training the previously rejected women and paying
millions to others no longer eligible.
In Los Angeles, Mayor Eric Garcetti is plainly unhappy with this year’s
all-male class of firefighting graduates.
There were four women among the 44 recruits who started last December,
but they all dropped out.
Desperate to diversify, Garcetti paid the RAND Corp. a whopping
$270,000 for advice. RAND’s brilliant insight was that LA should recruit
women athletes who can take the grueling training. Well, duh!
That’s what San Marcos, Calif., learned upon hiring Siene Freeman.
Several other female recruits had washed out, but for her — a former
marathoner and weight-lifter — the training was a piece of cake.
Municipalities that already have women firefighters are being hit with
lawsuits.
But more often these are about sexual harassment rather than
qualifications.
This year alone, Philadelphia, Tampa and at least a dozen other cities are
being sued for allowing a culture of bawdy, suggestive behavior. Tampa’s
fire department personnel chief, known as “Uncle Touchy,” just resigned
after admitting he had hugged, massaged and flirted with female
firefighters.
Many departments face the practical problem that firefighters — male and
female — work 24 hour shifts, and sleep in an open bunk room, with no
privacy curtains or separate changing area.
That’s hardly conducive for a professional working environment. Nigro
says he is going to remedy these problems in New York.
Then again, the Tampa female firefighters are fanning the flames.
To raise money for burn victims, they put out a calendar. Trouble is, some
of them posed in bikinis, sending a mixed message.
The touchy issue of women in traditional men’s occupations will be center
stage this fall, when the Pentagon announces its “gender-neutral” rules for
military assignments.
Some feminists argue that the Marine Corps’ grueling Combat Endurance
Test is more of an “initiation rite” than a fair appraisal of physical ability,
the same argument Wax’s supporters use about New York’s firefighting
exam.
Joint Chiefs Chairman Martin Dempsey ominously announced at a
Pentagon briefing that if “a particular standard is so high that a woman
couldn’t make it, the burden is now on the service to come back and
explain . . . does it really have to be that high?”
Military brass — like officials overseeing New York’s fire department —
are too ready to lower standards, never mind the consequences in the field.
Is that really a victory for women?[/b]


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zb_WYGtZ7K4



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4UfEE0NDfs


www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvdqyJk-Hfk

Reminds me of the rebellious attack satan launched against God thousands of years ago. This is what happens when u try to cheat nature...
I just feel for lives that are going to be lost for giving certain jobs to some incompetent & weak hands in the nearest future, all for the sake of equality.....

Nonso23:


This is by no means an isolated case as the reviews for training requirements for the U.S marine is also possibly going to be skewed again in favor of incompetence just because some lazy people are asking:

"is all that training necessary?"

My guy cool down. The way you sound it would make someone think they completely overhauled the training. They only changed one requirement and that was for 3 chin ups. One woman wrote an article and said they should be given more training and they'd pass so no need for the change. They are implementing that extra training. Does that sound like lazy people or people who want a free pass?

LordReed:


Attic here I come! Flazooom! *he drops it in the attic* Up, up and away!

Smh
All this for a bit of cornbread...

Nonso23:


This is by no means an isolated case as the reviews for training requirements for the U.S marine is also possibly going to be skewed again in favor of incompetence just because some lazy people are asking:

"is all that training necessary?"

The question is a very vital one.

If all the trainings not necessary, why set it as a standard?

Nonso23:


Not hiring a great team mate because she is a woman happens but it is the exception.
Requiring them to pass their tests first regardless of their gender before hiring is pragmatic.
Stop misconstruing my posts it doesn't advance your argument.

I am not miscontruing your post. I'm simply pointing you to that study. The candidates all had similar abilities so it was not a matter of passing tests.

5minsmadness:

Smh
All this for a bit of cornbread...

A bit? Ever heard of all you can eat?

freecocoa:
The question is a very vital one.

If all the trainings not necessary, why set it as a standard?

Abeg don't mind him they did not cut down the training. In fact they planned to increase it for those determined to pass.

LordReed:


Abeg don't mind him they did not cut down the training. In fact they planned to increase it for those determined to pass.

That's obviously very biased.

Nonso23:


Of course it becomes a vital question when the woman cannot meet up I mean people can win wars and create strategies by solving multiple choice questions because they are women.
The U.S marines are an elite force they need all the training they can get. If the woman can't meet up with the ever increasing standard she gets the boot.
The military is not a place for whiners. Shape up or leave.

Are you saying that the level of physical training one can take, determines who's fit for the job? It doesn't matter what the standards are, the question is, how necessary are they?

freecocoa:
That's obviously very biased.

How do you mean? The additional training was to help them pass. And so far it seems to be helping from what I've read.

LordReed:


How do you mean? The additional training was to help them pass. And so far it seems to be helping from what I've read.

I'm sorry, guess I got lost somewhere.

I thought you meant the additional training was added to see if they can still pass.

LordReed:


Attic here I come! Flazooom! *he drops it in the attic* Up, up and away!

You are not well.

5minsmadness:

Smh
All this for a bit of cornbread...

Why are you hating?

Let the man work for this cornbread!

LordReed:


How do you mean? The additional training was to help them pass. And so far it seems to be helping from what I've read.

I was watching a documentary about officers in the Navy Seal training and the training was brutual! It was about individuals who applied for the Navy Seal and had to undergo strenuous training in water and on land.

It started with 1200 applicants and 30 of them were women. The training was for 6 weeks and they had to at one point sleep in the pool until their body went into hyperthermia.

By the end of 6 weeks only 2 men and 1 woman graduated! What was shocking is that these men were fit or appears to be fit and couldn't handle the training.

The point I am making is that if you don't have determination and stamina to complete a training....not even your gender can help you.

I believe many of them underestimated the training and failed.

Nonso23:


There is a benchmark level of physical fitness required for the military. It is the lower limit. Soldiers are pushed beyond this often because the warfront is not a playground and you are built to last longest under tough situations.
The major criterion is physical fitness and if ladies cannot meet the lower benchmark then they are potential liabilities and should be dropped as fast as you would a hot metal ball.

They are completely necessary. Liabilities are not welcome into the military.

Honestly, this argument is becoming rather silly, one can't be making an obvious point all the time, men get booted out of the military for having flat feet, pot belly, bow legs, anything that can hamper their performance, matter of fact, they don't even make it through the regular screening... why should a lady who can't scale the hurdle be allowed to pass, if a man was kicked out for the same reason, no one would make noise about it....

MrsChima:


I was watching a documentary about officers in the Navy Seal training and the training was brutual! It was about individuals who applied for the Navy Seal and had to undergo strenuous training in water and on land.

It started with 1200 applicants and 30 of them were women. The training was for 6 weeks and they had to at one point sleep in the pool until their body went into hyperthermia.

By the end of 6 weeks only 2 men and 1 woman graduated! What was shocking is that these men were fit or appears to be fit and couldn't handle the training.

The point I am making is that if you don't have determination and stamina to complete a training....not even your gender can help you.

I believe many of them underestimated the training and failed.

I read that success rate in Ranger school is 45% for men and 42% for women not so bad really.

LordReed:


I read that success rate in Ranger school is 45% for men and 42% for women not so bad really.

Cool.

Nonso23:


And prostitution and child murder is a female thing too! of course

Except men literally murder and rape children all over the world around 200 million times more than women.

freecocoa:
Pickabeau.

From what I read on the lawsuit, the method of testing was indeed arbitrary back then, how will one know for sure. that the women failed, if there really was no transparent method of testing?

I see now that has changed though, however, if firefighting is more about physical strength(i don't know much about it)then by all means, the tests should be largely based on that and more men will definitely excel above women in it, but if it's not more of physical strength, then the system of testing is biased.

You know, many people don't understand feminism, they think it's about wanting to be a man but it's not, it's just about giving women the chances a man has, if the woman is up to it, then let her do it,nothing like "no, it's not a woman's job" it's just that simple.

Ok

I like how you raised your hands about not knowing much about firefighting training

The physical test are important

Let me send u some links...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xds5O4p2iek


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKKY7jU0eEA