analice107:

Really
This is new. I never heard this. But I thought Jesus said the torment over there never stops, day and night

Don't act like you don't know simple biology, the nerves in your skin receive the signals which is is called stimulus and transmit the signals to your brain, then your brain will process the information and will make the muscles react, which is why when you touch a hot object and quickly remove your hand, if that brain dies, then how will those stimuli be processed? How then will the pain receptors work?

analice107:

It sounds impossible you to ba? Well, maybe Apostle Paul is a fictitious character to you. But Johnnydon is a toy compared to Saul.
Pleaton is confused. He is neither here nor there, so I don't take him serious. They are all the seed of the son of perdition though.
Just like Saul, Johnnydon cup go full. Hahahahaha, When him cup full, nobody go tell am. All this talking tough go cease.

You think?

^^^^
Do you know that the brain has no stimuli receptor nerves like your skin, that is why brain surgery patients are fully awake during the surgery, because the brain can not feel any pain. So I wonder what will process the stimulus in a clinically dead person.

analice107:

These people are so deep into arguments. Smh for them.

that is what you are to expect, while quoting deeply indoctrinated folks.

johnw74:

One so called jw said: why are so called jw's not given enough attention

another supposed jw said: we are persecuted

they say anything that's written in watchtower or that comes from that dark spirit in them.

one supossed jw posted scripture about the Church being persecuted and murdered,
and they are daily in some parts of the World, but so called jw are not persecuted and murdered,
they are rejected.
Of course they don't care about wrongly using scripture.

Whenever you are told the truth you start causing others, this is what you have been doing on all the threads that bothers on JW.
Stop behaving like a child, be a man and stand and defend the truth for once stop looking for straws here and there to hold.
I am glad you have been shown maturity no one is retaliating or acting like you.
Why don't you stop misrepresenting the Bible and support the truth. Come on I expected some decorum from you in this forum.

cocoduck:
Don't act like you don't know simple biology, the nerves in your skin receive the signals which is is called stimulus and transmit the signals to your brain, then your brain will process the information and will make the muscles react, which is why when you touch a hot object and quickly remove your hand, if that brain dies, then how will those stimuli be processed? How then will the pain receptors work?

Now I see why you are an atheist or a Jw. You don't understand.
The body which will go either to heaven or hellfire is not this very body we have now. That body will be indestructible. Consider the scene when Mouse encountered Yahweh for the first time. The Bush was burning, but it wasn't getting consumed. That's how it's going to be.
Young man if you have all along thought it's with this body you would go to hellfire with, then indeed God is a fool as you consider him to be.
Do you remember that hellfire was originally meant for Satan and his demons? Do they have flesh like you and I? How are they going to be tormented in hellfire if the torment is going to be to the flesh?
Man is triune in nature dear. He is primarily a spirit, who has a soul (consciousness) and lives in a house(the body or flesh). The soul of a man is attached to his spirit, not to his body.
My dear, I have spent too much time on this issue. Just be sure of this one thing. There's hellfire and anyone who rejects the love God to us through Christ, have rejected life eternal, so will spend it with Satan. remember Satan is not the master over hellfire. He didn't create it. He hasn't been there himself, not yet. When the time comes, all of you shall be thrown down there. Him and you all will burn equally.

analice107:

Now I see why you are an atheist or a Jw. You don't understand.
The body which will go either to heaven or hellfire is not this very body we have now. That body will be indestructible. Consider the scene when Mouse encountered Yahweh for the first time. The Bush was burning, but it wasn't getting consumed. That's how it's going to be.
Young man if you have all along thought it's with this body you would go to hellfire with, then indeed God is a fool as you consider him to be.
Do you remember that hellfire was originally meant for Satan and his demons? Do they have flesh like you and I? How are they going to be tormented in hellfire if the torment is going to be to the flesh?
Man is triune in nature dear. He is primarily a spirit, who has a soul (consciousness) and lives in a house(the body or flesh). The soul of a man is attached to his spirit, not to his body.
My dear, I have spent too much time on this issue. Just be sure of this one thing. There's hellfire and anyone who rejects the love God to us through Christ, have rejected life eternal, so will spend it with Satan. remember Satan is not the master over hellfire. He didn't create it. He hasn't been there himself, not yet. When the time comes, all of you shall be thrown down there. Him and you all will burn equally.

My dear please before you start throwing us inside hell,
Have you thought about this portions of the scriptures to see if they align with the hell fire doctrine?

1: Psalm 146:4, It says at death our thoughts do perish, If our thoughts do perish at death does it not mean that we'll be unconscious?
That's Bible's say about the dead, if so can an unconscious (spirit as you guys say concerning dead ones) experience pain?
Supporting scriptures (Ecclesiastics 9:5,10)

2: Revelations 20:13,14, How come those dead in hell came out, and hell itself was thrown into the lake of fire which Bible clearly says it means second death?
Will God construct another hell fire? support with Bible portion if so.

3: Why did the Bible said this concerning sin/sinners in Romans 6:7$ Romans 6:23.

4: Jude verse 9 said Sodom and Gomorrah suffered the vengeance of "eternal fire", is fire still burning them?

I also noticed you mentioned that hellfire was prepared for the devil, Does it mean the Devil will be made to become flesh to experience pain?
Or will the supposedly humans who will share hellfire with him be made spirits?
If so will them including the devil become special spirits so they can experience literal pains of a fire?

Please answer and support with scriptures, I still have some other questions but answer these ones first.

goodnews201668:


My dear please before you start throwing us inside hell,
Have you thought about this portions of the scriptures to see if they align with the hell fire doctrine?

1: Psalm 146:4, It says at death our thoughts do perish, If our thoughts do perish at death does it not mean that we'll be unconscious?
That's Bible's say about the dead, if so can an unconscious (spirit as you guys say concerning dead ones) experience pain?
Supporting scriptures (Ecclesiastics 9:5,10)

2: Revelations 20:13,14, How come those dead in hell came out, and hell itself was thrown into the lake of fire which Bible clearly says it means second death?
Will God construct another hell fire? support with Bible portion if so.

3: Why did the Bible said this concerning sin/sinners in Romans 6:7$ Romans 6:23.

4: Jude verse 9 said Sodom and Gomorrah suffered the vengeance of "eternal fire", is fire still burning them?

I also noticed you mentioned that hellfire was prepared for the devil, Does it mean the Devil will be made to become flesh to experience pain?
Or will the supposedly humans who will share hellfire with him be made spirits?
If so will them including the devil become special spirits so they can experience literal pains of a fire?

Please answer and support with scriptures, I still have some other questions but answer these ones first.

Finish him.
FATALITY

goodnews201668:


My dear please before you start throwing us inside hell,
Have you thought about this portions of the scriptures to see if they align with the hell fire doctrine?

1: Psalm 146:4, It says at death our thoughts do perish, If our thoughts do perish at death does it not mean that we'll be unconscious?
That's Bible's say about the dead, if so can an unconscious (spirit as you guys say concerning dead ones) experience pain?
Supporting scriptures (Ecclesiastics 9:5,10)

2: Revelations 20:13,14, How come those dead in hell came out, and hell itself was thrown into the lake of fire which Bible clearly says it means second death?
Will God construct another hell fire? support with Bible portion if so.

3: Why did the Bible said this concerning sin/sinners in Romans 6:7$ Romans 6:23.

4: Jude verse 9 said Sodom and Gomorrah suffered the vengeance of "eternal fire", is fire still burning them?

I also noticed you mentioned that hellfire was prepared for the devil, Does it mean the Devil will be made to become flesh to experience pain?
Or will the supposedly humans who will share hellfire with him be made spirits?
If so will them including the devil become special spirits so they can experience literal pains of a fire?


Please answer and support with scriptures, I still have some other questions but answer these ones first.

After now, I won't reply to you anymore.
Your number 1point.
Amplified Bible Psalm 146:4
When his breath leaves him, he returns to his earth; in that very day his [previous] thoughts, plans, and purposes perish.

What does perish in this context mean?
It means what ever patterns to this physical world is cut off from him. Everything. His plans, purposes and thoughts. Cut off, until he resurrects to answer for the way he lived while a life. It doesn't matter how long he laid dead. There's no time in death. But at the appropriate time, he will be raised.
But consider this passage of the Bible.

Amplified Bible Revelation 20:12 I [also] saw the dead, great and small; they stood before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is [the Book] of Life. And the dead were judged (sentenced) by what they had done [their whole way of feeling and acting, their aims and endeavors] in accordance with what was recorded in the books.

At this point, everyone who had died in the past comes back to life again. You will account for how you lived you life. It doesn't matter if you believe it or not. And which consciousness will you be judged with if your real consciousness gets cut off?
Your consciousness gets put on pause as long as you lay dead. When u resurrect your consciousness returns to you.

Point 2. Have you ever heard this word, Carnal Christian? That's you. You are a carnal christian. Do you know what it means to be a carnal christian? It means you live and operate with your 5 natural senses. You are not spiritual. How do you follow God in the flesh. Thinking and looking at things only in the natural aspects.

The word hell is not the same as hellfire.
There are three kinds of Hells.
1. The common grave where every one is buried.
This kind of hell everyone one born of woman goes there, because everyone dies. This we see example
In Psalm 16:10 For You will not abandon my soul in hell (Sheol) (the place of the dead), neither will You suffer Your holy one [Holy One] to see corruption.
This was a prophecy about Jesus' resurrection.
Jesus went to this hell.

Amplified Bible Psalm 139:8 If I ascend up into heaven, You are there; if I make my bed in hell (Sheol) (the place of the dead), behold, You are there.
There are many more examples because of want of time, I will just take this ones.

Point 3 what did Romans 6 say?

Point 4. So, you don't think that Sodom and Gomorrah shall also resurrect to answer for their deeds?
The fire that blazed out Sodom and Gomorrah can be put out. And it ceased from burning. That kind of fire burns and consumes flesh, but the fire of fire hell is not like the natural fire. That one burns but doesn't consume.
Let me show you that Sodom and Gomorrah shall also resurrect to stand Judgement.

Amplified Bible Mark 6:11 And if any community will not receive and accept and welcome you, and they refuse to listen to you, when you depart, shake off the dust that is on your feet, for a testimony against them. Truly I tell you, it will be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrah in the judgment day than for that town.

Amplified Bible Matthew 11:24 But I tell you, it shall be more endurable for the land of Sodom on the day of judgment than for you.

Did you see 'tolerable' on judgement day?
Sodom Gomorrah shall again raised to stand judgement. No one is exempted.

I think you meant Jude 1: 7. Jude 1:7 [The wicked are sentenced to suffer] just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the adjacent towns—which likewise gave themselves over to impurity and indulged in unnatural vice and sensual perversity—are laid out [in plain sight] as an exhibit of perpetual punishment [to warn] of everlasting fire.
Yes, Sodom and Gomorrah suffered natural fire here and shall suffer spiritual eternal fire here after. Their lot is fire.

Seriously? The devil needs to become a special spirit to burn in that fire?
O Jesus! That fire doesn't burn flesh, it burns spirits. I told you that man is truine right? You are created in God's image. Who is God? He is a spirit. The image the Bible talks about is not the flesh of man, the image the Bible means is the spirit of man. God is not flesh, he created us like him. We are actually God's clones in the spirit realm.
That's the part which will stand judgement not the flesh. The flesh will perish.

And you doubt that hell was created for the devil and not for man originally?
Here it is.

Amplified Bible Matthew 25:41 Then He will say to those at His left hand, Begone from Me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels!

So, you see? Hell was for Satan.

analice107:

Now I see why you are an atheist or a Jw. You don't understand.
The body which will go either to heaven or hellfire is not this very body we have now. That body will be indestructible. Consider the scene when Mouse encountered Yahweh for the first time. The Bush was burning, but it wasn't getting consumed. That's how it's going to be.
Young man if you have all along thought it's with this body you would go to hellfire with, then indeed God is a fool as you consider him to be.
Do you remember that hellfire was originally meant for Satan and his demons? Do they have flesh like you and I? How are they going to be tormented in hellfire if the torment is going to be to the flesh?
Man is triune in nature dear. He is primarily a spirit, who has a soul (consciousness) and lives in a house(the body or flesh). The soul of a man is attached to his spirit, not to his body.
My dear, I have spent too much time on this issue. Just be sure of this one thing. There's hellfire and anyone who rejects the love God to us through Christ, have rejected life eternal, so will spend it with Satan. remember Satan is not the master over hellfire. He didn't create it. He hasn't been there himself, not yet. When the time comes, all of you shall be thrown down there. Him and you all will burn equally.

what a heartless being you are ?


those who worship a cruel god becomes exactly like their god . the last line said it all

Jesus said BODY go to hell , not ur crazy theories up there . " Your WHOLE BODY IN Hell "
matthew 5:29 to 30

analice107 , as uv seen that ur lie lie spiri spiri theory is CRUSHED and Exposed in that Matthew, can you now tell me how many Body uv seen disappearing to ur imaginary hellfire ?



if none, does it mean Jesus lied ?

goodnews201668:


Whenever you are told the truth you start causing others, this is what you have been doing on all the threads that bothers on JW.
Stop behaving like a child, be a man and stand and defend the truth for once stop looking for straws here and there to hold.
I am glad you have been shown maturity no one is retaliating or acting like you.
Why don't you stop misrepresenting the Bible and support the truth. Come on I expected some decorum from you in this forum.

Why do you still think I want to have a discussion with evil jw,
I have showed you and every other jw wrong at one time or another,
and I will again.

Trying to show supposed jw truth would be like teaching satan how to be good.

Are you still seeing Paul Grundy's? that's the devil in you, you know.

You couldn't be more wrong, the truth doesn't need defending, It just needs being told.
I show truth with scripture, and supossed jw's reject it.

Supposed jw are constantly defending, not the truth, but their false beliefs.

I never misrepresent the Bible, but supposed jw who changed the Word was God, to the Word was "a" god cannot help but lie and misrepresent and change the Bible.

MizJanet:


what a heartless being you are ?


those who worship a cruel god becomes exactly like their god . the last line said it all

Jesus said BODY go to hell , not ur crazy theories up there . " Your WHOLE BODY IN Hell "
matthew 5:29 to 30

analice107 , as uv seen that ur lie lie spiri spiri theory is CRUSHED and Exposed in that Matthew, can you now tell me how many Body uv seen disappearing to ur imaginary hellfire ?



if none, does it mean Jesus lied ?

Yes his last line said it all,
with all the evil you have said about the Christian God and the Bible,
the LAKE OF FIRE is for you.

you shall be thrown down there. Him and you all will burn equally

You are an atheist and you use the Bible to mock baby Christians who don't know much.
You don't do it with the supposed jw's or rc's because even though they don't know much, truth that is, you are scared, knowing that not just one but many will oppose you.

johnw74:


Yes his last line said it all,
with all the evil you have said about the Christian God and the Bible,
the LAKE OF FIRE is for you.





You are an atheist and you use the Bible to mock baby Christians who don't know much.
You don't do it with the supposed jw's or rc's because even though they don't know much, truth that is, you are scared, knowing that not just one but many will oppose you.

Don't mind the witch. Am glad at least she quotes the Bible. That's what will be used against her on judgement day. As a matter of fact, she knows she's going straight to hellfire.

MizJanet:


what a heartless being you are ?


those who worship a cruel god becomes exactly like their god . the last line said it all

Jesus said BODY go to hell , not ur crazy theories up there . " Your WHOLE BODY IN Hell "
matthew 5:29 to 30

analice107 , as uv seen that ur lie lie spiri spiri theory is CRUSHED and Exposed in that Matthew, can you now tell me how many Body uv seen disappearing to ur imaginary hellfire ?



if none, does it mean Jesus lied ?

Hey witch, if you go through what I posted. It's the Bible, I didn't write the Bible. You think you will escape? Oh Witch, you won't, except you repent.
Hellfire is imaginary, then why are you wailing ? If you don't repent you will end up there, whether it's your spirit, your soul or your body which will burn, facts is, you Witch will burn. Call me whatever you like. You will burn. Daughter of serpent.

Nothing was made except what the Word made, the Word - God's Spirit, has of course always existed

Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Job 33:4 The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.

Can you see that, the Spirit of God - the Word Jesus Christ, has made me,
the Word is God, He is God's own Spirit, the breath of the Almighty, God and the Word is God.



Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

goodnews201668:



Why don't you stop misrepresenting the Bible

You must be referring to those verses I posted in the other thread showing that the Word is God,
and to which you replied:

"Stop misrepresenting the Bible, all those scriptures doesn't in any way support Trinity."

analice107:


After now, I won't reply to you anymore.
Your number 1point.
Amplified Bible Psalm 146:4
When his breath leaves him, he returns to his earth; in that very day his [previous] thoughts, plans, and purposes perish.

What does perish in this context mean?
It means what ever patterns to this physical world is cut off from him. Everything. His plans, purposes and thoughts. Cut off, until he resurrects to answer for the way he lived while a life. It doesn't matter how long he laid dead. There's no time in death. But at the appropriate time, he will be raised.
But consider this passage of the Bible.

Amplified Bible Revelation 20:12 I [also] saw the dead, great and small; they stood before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is [the Book] of Life. And the dead were judged (sentenced) by what they had done [their whole way of feeling and acting, their aims and endeavors] in accordance with what was recorded in the books.

At this point, everyone who had died in the past comes back to life again. You will account for how you lived you life. It doesn't matter if you believe it or not. And which consciousness will you be judged with if your real consciousness gets cut off?
Your consciousness gets put on pause as long as you lay dead. When u resurrect your consciousness returns to you.

Point 2. Have you ever heard this word, Carnal Christian? That's you. You are a carnal christian. Do you know what it means to be a carnal christian? It means you live and operate with your 5 natural senses. You are not spiritual. How do you follow God in the flesh. Thinking and looking at things only in the natural aspects.

The word hell is not the same as hellfire.
There are three kinds of Hells.
1. The common grave where every one is buried.
This kind of hell everyone one born of woman goes there, because everyone dies. This we see example
In Psalm 16:10 For You will not abandon my soul in hell (Sheol) (the place of the dead), neither will You suffer Your holy one [Holy One] to see corruption.
This was a prophecy about Jesus' resurrection.
Jesus went to this hell.

Amplified Bible Psalm 139:8 If I ascend up into heaven, You are there; if I make my bed in hell (Sheol) (the place of the dead), behold, You are there.
There are many more examples because of want of time, I will just take this ones.

Point 3 what did Romans 6 say?

Point 4. So, you don't think that Sodom and Gomorrah shall also resurrect to answer for their deeds?
The fire that blazed out Sodom and Gomorrah can be put out. And it ceased from burning. That kind of fire burns and consumes flesh, but the fire of fire hell is not like the natural fire. That one burns but doesn't consume.
Let me show you that Sodom and Gomorrah shall also resurrect to stand Judgement.

Amplified Bible Mark 6:11 And if any community will not receive and accept and welcome you, and they refuse to listen to you, when you depart, shake off the dust that is on your feet, for a testimony against them. Truly I tell you, it will be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrah in the judgment day than for that town.

Amplified Bible Matthew 11:24 But I tell you, it shall be more endurable for the land of Sodom on the day of judgment than for you.

Did you see 'tolerable' on judgement day?
Sodom Gomorrah shall again raised to stand judgement. No one is exempted.

I think you meant Jude 1: 7. Jude 1:7 [The wicked are sentenced to suffer] just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the adjacent towns—which likewise gave themselves over to impurity and indulged in unnatural vice and sensual perversity—are laid out [in plain sight] as an exhibit of perpetual punishment [to warn] of everlasting fire.
Yes, Sodom and Gomorrah suffered natural fire here and shall suffer spiritual eternal fire here after. Their lot is fire.

Seriously? The devil needs to become a special spirit to burn in that fire?
O Jesus! That fire doesn't burn flesh, it burns spirits. I told you that man is truine right? You are created in God's image. Who is God? He is a spirit. The image the Bible talks about is not the flesh of man, the image the Bible means is the spirit of man. God is not flesh, he created us like him. We are actually God's clones in the spirit realm.
That's the part which will stand judgement not the flesh. The flesh will perish.

And you doubt that hell was created for the devil and not for man originally?
Here it is.

Amplified Bible Matthew 25:41 Then He will say to those at His left hand, Begone from Me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels!

So, you see? Hell was for Satan.

Don't go yet I told you I still have other questions.

Well I appreciate the fact that you believe that thoughts, plans and purposes stops at death which is in agreement with the Bible.

Though you still believe one can still be alive after death, yes through your statement that man is truine in nature.
If so it betrays the idea that thoughts, purposes and plans cease to exist at death and that would also contradict the Bible that stated the dead are unconscious.
I also noticed you embrace the resurrection hope.
Resurrection means to revive or bring back to life, if you alive after death the hope of resurrection will be meaningless.
Opposite of life is death!, either you are alive or you are dead helpless, unconscious and awaits resurrection.
The Bible doesn't teach anything like half dead or dead physically and alive in spirit.
One is either dead or alive.
Two extremes.
You didn't explain the portions of the Bible I cited(Romans 6:7 and 6:23).
Again we are created in God's image as you said right. But the scriptures does not support the idea that man is spirit, I believe those were you ideas or what you think.
Being created in God's image doesn't mean we are spirits like God rather we can live and reflect God's qualities.
God already created uncountable number of spirit beings in heaven before creating humans so he had in mind something different.
1 Corinthians 15:40 says there is earthly body and heavenly body.
The last time I checked the Bible said only after resurrection can one possibly assume a spirit body.
1 Corinthians 15:43,44 Talks about faithful ones going to heaven as been down like a seed in flesh(describes death) and are made alive in spirit (That's resurrection)
PONDER OVER THIS if one is dead and his spirit is alive the Bible won't talk about resurrecting a person as a spirit being.
Again at (Luke 20:34-36) Jesus made mention of faithful resurrected ones not getting married because they'll be like Angels and will be sons of God!
So transforming someone to a spirit life means the person is worthy of a heavenly life and have no need to dwell on the earth. Because corruption can't inherit incorruptible.
Jude 1:7 is not talking about what will happen in the future as you said, because you rightly pointed out it will serve as a warning example. So the Bible using fire in this instance was figurative, the fire burned enternal in the sense the destruction was everlasting.

Lastly I actually cited (Revelations 20:15) That said hell and death were thrown into the lake of fire which means the second death.
You didn't say anything about it, are they (death and hell) also sinners? Doesn't the fire mentioned mean destruction or second death?

goodnews201668:


Don't go yet I told you I still have other questions.

Well I appreciate the fact that you believe that thoughts, plans and purposes stops at death which is in agreement with the Bible.

Though you still believe one can still be alive after death, yes through your statement that man is truine in nature.
If so it betrays the idea that thoughts, purposes and plans cease to exist at death and that would also contradict the Bible that stated the dead are unconscious.
I also noticed you embrace the resurrection hope.
Resurrection means to revive or bring back to life, if you alive after death the hope of resurrection will be meaningless.
Opposite of life is death!, either you are alive or you are dead helpless, unconscious and awaits resurrection.
The Bible doesn't teach anything like half dead or dead physically and alive in spirit.
One is either dead or alive.
Two extremes.
You didn't explain the portions of the Bible I cited(Romans 6:7 and 6:23).
Again we are created in God's image as you said right. But the scriptures does not support the idea that man is spirit, I believe those were you ideas or what you think.
Being created in God's image doesn't mean we are spirits like God rather we can live and reflect God's qualities.
God already created uncountable number of spirit beings in heaven before creating humans so he had in mind something different.
1 Corinthians 15:40 says there is earthly body and heavenly body.
The last time I checked the Bible said only after resurrection can one possibly assume a spirit body.
1 Corinthians 15:43,44 Talks about faithful ones going to heaven as been down like a seed in flesh(describes death) and are made alive in spirit (That's resurrection)
PONDER OVER THIS if one is dead and his spirit is alive the Bible won't talk about resurrecting a person as a spirit being.
Again at (Luke 20:34-36) Jesus made mention of faithful resurrected ones not getting married because they'll be like Angels and will be sons of God!
So transforming someone to a spirit life means the person is worthy of a heavenly life and have no need to dwell on the earth. Because corruption can't inherit incorruptible.
Jude 1:7 is not talking about what will happen in the future as you said, because you rightly pointed out it will serve as a warning example. So the Bible using fire in this instance was figurative, the fire burned enternal in the sense the destruction was everlasting.

Lastly I actually cited (Revelations 20:15) That said hell and death were thrown into the lake of fire which means the second death.
You didn't say anything about it, are they (death and hell) also sinners? Doesn't the fire mentioned mean destruction or second death?

Duh, who cares about supposed jw questions,

analice said: "After now, I won't reply to you anymore."

but supposed jw doesn't know the truth when they see it.


Like jmano who said "I won't reply to you again"

and replied to me the very next day

When supposed jw lie they are speaking naturally.

johnw74:


Duh, who cares about supposed jw questions,
analice said: "After now, I won't reply to you anymore."
but supposed jw doesn't know the truth when they see it.

Like jmano who said "I won't reply to you again"
and replied to me the very next day
When supposed jw lie they are speaking naturally.

What's your problems Stop behaving like a kid.

goodnews201668:

What's your problems Stop behaving like a kid.

better leaves him.

goodnews201668:


Don't go yet I told you I still have other questions.

Well I appreciate the fact that you believe that thoughts, plans and purposes stops at death which is in agreement with the Bible.

Though you still believe one can still be alive after death, yes through your statement that man is truine in nature.
If so it betrays the idea that thoughts, purposes and plans cease to exist at death and that would also contradict the Bible that stated the dead are unconscious.
I also noticed you embrace the resurrection hope.
Resurrection means to revive or bring back to life, if you alive after death the hope of resurrection will be meaningless.
Opposite of life is death!, either you are alive or you are dead helpless, unconscious and awaits resurrection.
The Bible doesn't teach anything like half dead or dead physically and alive in spirit.
One is either dead or alive.
Two extremes.
You didn't explain the portions of the Bible I cited(Romans 6:7 and 6:23).
Again we are created in God's image as you said right. But the scriptures does not support the idea that man is spirit, I believe those were you ideas or what you think.
Being created in God's image doesn't mean we are spirits like God rather we can live and reflect God's qualities.
God already created uncountable number of spirit beings in heaven before creating humans so he had in mind something different.
1 Corinthians 15:40 says there is earthly body and heavenly body.
The last time I checked the Bible said only after resurrection can one possibly assume a spirit body.
1 Corinthians 15:43,44 Talks about faithful ones going to heaven as been down like a seed in flesh(describes death) and are made alive in spirit (That's resurrection)
PONDER OVER THIS if one is dead and his spirit is alive the Bible won't talk about resurrecting a person as a spirit being.
Again at (Luke 20:34-36) Jesus made mention of faithful resurrected ones not getting married because they'll be like Angels and will be sons of God!
So transforming someone to a spirit life means the person is worthy of a heavenly life and have no need to dwell on the earth. Because corruption can't inherit incorruptible.
Jude 1:7 is not talking about what will happen in the future as you said, because you rightly pointed out it will serve as a warning example. So the Bible using fire in this instance was figurative, the fire burned enternal in the sense the destruction was everlasting.

Lastly I actually cited (Revelations 20:15) That said hell and death were thrown into the lake of fire which means the second death.
You didn't say anything about it, are they (death and hell) also sinners? Doesn't the fire mentioned mean destruction or second death?

Ahh. Na waoo. Plans, purposes and thoughts ceases to exist where nah?
The earth we live in is a realm. It's called the realm of the physical. Where you and I exists in right now. When we die everything about this physical world terminates. Example. This present riot in the University of Port Harcourt. Peter, the dead victim got into the front line, he is dead.
Peter's plans, his purpose on earth, his aspirations, every of his thoughts. Ends on the day he gave up the ghost. But does that mean in the spiritual realm Peter ceases to exist? No.

The scriptures I gave earlier pointing to the common grave which every man must be buried in. Does our soul which is attached to our spirit stays there with the body? No. The Bible says, the body returns to the ground from where it came, but the spirit returns to his maker to awaiting judgement.

He ceases to exist amongst us the living. But what happens to his sprit? Remember, he is also a spirit?
Let me explain what just happened to Peter. Peter has just been evicted from his house, because his physical body was his house.

Amplified Bible 2 Corinthians 5:1-4
For we know that if the tent which is our earthly (body) is destroyed (dissolved), we have from God a building (Spirit) , a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. Here indeed, in this [present abode, body], we sigh and groan inwardly, because we yearn to be clothed over [we yearn to put on our celestial body like a garment, to be fitted out] with our heavenly dwelling, So that by putting it on we may not be found naked (without a body). For while we are still in this tent, we groan under the burden and sigh deeply (weighed down, depressed, oppressed)—not that we want to put off the body (the clothing of the spirit), but rather that we would be further clothed, so that what is mortal (our dying body) may be swallowed up by life [after the resurrection].

Pls note the use of the TENT. Tent here means this flesh which houses our soul and spirit. When the body is put down in death, there's where our souls which is attached to out spirit goes.

Luke 16:19-30
There was a certain rich man who [habitually] clothed himself in purple and fine linen and reveled and feasted and made merry in splendor every day.

And at his gate there was [carelessly] dropped down and left a certain utterly destitute man named Lazarus, [reduced to begging alms and] covered with [ulcerated] sores.

He [eagerly] desired to be satisfied with what fell from the rich man’s table; moreover, the dogs even came and licked his sores.

And it occurred that the man [reduced to] begging died and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom.

The rich man also died and was buried. And in Hades (the realm of the dead), being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far away, and Lazarus in his bosom.

And he cried out and said, Father Abraham, have pity and mercy on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.

But Abraham said, Child, remember that you in your lifetime fully received [what is due you in] comforts and delights, and Lazarus in like manner the discomforts and distresses; but now he is comforted here and you are in anguish.

And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, in order that those who want to pass from this [place] to you may not be able, and no one may pass from there to us. And [the man] said, Then, father, I beseech you to send him to my father’s house— For I have five brothers—so that he may give [solemn] testimony and warn them, lest they too come into this place of torment.

But Abraham said, They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear and listen to them. But he answered, No, father Abraham, but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent (change their minds for the better and heartily amend their ways, with abhorrence of their past sins).

Jesus used the known to reveal the unknown to us.

Hades, which is also referred to as Hell, is a location, a place. This realm of the dead is where the souls of men are kept AWAITING judgement. Here, everyone dies goes here according to the passage above. Nobody gets judged immediately they die.
And this realm comprises of two chasms, Paradise for those who lived right on earth like Lazarus, and Hades("hell", where there's torment but, the torment here can not be compared to the torment in the lake of fire).

When resurrection takes place, everyone, both good and bad shall be taken up out of this realm, place, location, and be judged. Some to everlasting life and some to the lake of fire. And Hades, which is also called hell, which is a location, or a place, shall also be cast into the lake of fire.

Pls what do you mean by 'If we live after resurrection, the hope of resurrection is meaningless?" So when we resurrect we don't
Continue to live on?
Young man, Spirits don't die. We die only in our bodies. Our spirits forever, either in Hellfire or in Heaven with Christ.
You know what? Am done. You approach the scriptures with a preconceived mindset.
For real, keep off my mention. Am done.

I am replying for others to see you are wrong and that you are misquoting the scriptures not for you, if you like run.

Start that chapter from beginning and get a clearer understanding.
Verse 1 says:
For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
(Apostle Paul was talking about his rewards in the heavens not what you meant.
He is not claiming to be a spirit rather was referring to heavenly reward and life. Read that 2 Corinthians 5 from begining youll understand ehat that place is saying, you are only assuming what that place never said.
Like i told you earlier one assumes a spirit body only after resurrection and it's supported in the Bible (1 Corinthians 15:40-44)
The Bible clearly states there are two types of body heavenly and earthly. Stop saying you are somehow spirit and that dead people are somewhere as spirits, that would betray your hope of resurrection unless you no longer believe in resurrection because resurrection means bringing back to life. Death is opposite of life, if one is not alive he is dead and will await resurrection.
That's the only hope of such ones being alive again.

2Co 5:2
For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven,
Verse 2 of that chapter clearly stated that Paul was desiring to be in the heavens and as a spirit not while he was alive here on earth.
He was talking about something that would happen in the future.

The story in Luke is a parable, yes Jesus himself said no man has been to heaven in John 3:13 except him that comes down from heaven.
So Abraham and Lazarus weren't in heaven. Otherwise Jesus will be lying.

Once again I'll remind you that you fail to explain Romans 6:7 and 6:23.

And to prove to you again that fire meant destruction I cited (Revelations 20:15) Which shows death and hell were also hurled into the lake of fire which means second death, What sins did they commit? You didn't say anything about it.

analice107:


Ahh. Na waoo. Plans, purposes and thoughts ceases to exist where nah?
The earth we live in is a realm. It's called the realm of the physical. Where you and I exists in right now. When we die everything about this physical world terminates. Example. This present riot in the University of Port Harcourt. Peter, the dead victim got into the front line, he is dead.
Peter's plans, his purpose on earth, his aspirations, every of his thoughts. Ends on the day he gave up the ghost. But does that mean in the spiritual realm Peter ceases to exist? No.

your thoughts and purpose ceases to exist not only on earth, but anywhere you might think the dead goes.

King James Version
Ec 9:5For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not ANY THING, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

the dead dnt know anything at all, where they are, why they are there, no thoughts, no thinking, no existence, no pain.
you where not alive before you became alive, such experience is what you will get when you lose the life you where given.

King James Version
Ec 9:6Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

This personal feelings of man does not exist in him after death, because at death, his feelings ceases to exist!
King James Version
Ec 9:10Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest .

not only is there no thoughts or feelings when someone dies, the scriptures also includes no actions whatsoever. It states that there is no knowledge in the place where one goes at death.

note what that verse says again, it says "you", not "part of you" goes to the grave/realm of the death/ sheol/ hell. and when you are there, you know nothing, feel nothing, do nothing, NO KNOWLEDGE, NO WISDOM, NO DEVISE IN HELL!

part of your post, which i underlined above, supports these view: peters thoughts ceases to exist when he died! unless you want to say god gave him a new thought in hell and he cant think about what happened when he was alive.
There are other verses which supports this and which I'll quote as we go along.

The scriptures I gave earlier pointing to the common grave which every man must be buried in. Does our soul which is attached to our spirit stays there with the body? No. The Bible says, the body returns to the ground from where it came, but the spirit returns to his maker to awaiting judgement.

the underlined parts of your statements does not have Scriptural surpport, and cannot be found anywhere in the scriptures.
The scriptures never said our soul is attached to our spirits, it never says the spirit leaves our body and returns to the maker to await judgement.(will also come back to this later)

He ceases to exist amongst us the living. But what happens to his sprit? Remember, he is also a spirit?

not according to the creator and not according to the scriptures.

King James Version
Ge 2:7And the LORD God FORMED MAN OF THE DUST OF THE GROUND, and breathed into HIS nostrils the breath of life; and man BECAME a living soul.

the scriptures tell us that man was formed from the ground, it did not say that man is spirit, it continues by saying " and breathed into his( the man) nostrils" the breathe of life. This spirit is not the man , this spirit is the means, force, power by which the man came to be a LIVING SOUL!.
The man was not giving a soul, he is a soul, a living one
like the animals God had created before him, they too had the spirit in them, and are called souls or living things.

God comfirmed these makeup of man when Adam sinned, he told adam:

Ge 3:19In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, FOR OUT OF IT YOU WHERE TAKEN. FOR DUST YOU ARE AND TO DUST YOU WILL RETURN.”

can you see what God , man's maker , called man in that verse? God said " DUST YOU ARE" not "spirit you are"
can you also see where God said man will return to ? he said " and to dust you will return to".
What should one expect when one returns to dust, he ceases to exist!
Adam did not go back to God, Adam is not a spirit, he is a physical being animated by the spirit in him, when such spirits leaves him, the animation stops, and he dies!, returning to what he really is , dust!

do we have other scriptures to surpport these?
Ps 104:29When you hide your face, they are disturbed. If you take away their spirit, they die and return to the dust.
Ec 3:20All are going to the same place. They all come from the dust, and they all are returning to the dust.
Ec 12:7Then the dust returns to the earth, just as it was, and the spirit returns to the true God who gave it.

Let me explain what just happened to Peter. Peter has just been evicted from his house, because his physical body was his house.

Amplified Bible 2 Corinthians 5:1-4
For we know that if the tent which is our earthly (body) is destroyed (dissolved), we have from God a building (Spirit) , a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. Here indeed, in this [present abode, body], we sigh and groan inwardly, because we yearn to be clothed over [we yearn to put on our celestial body like a garment, to be fitted out] with our heavenly dwelling, So that by putting it on we may not be found naked (without a body). For while we are still in this tent, we groan under the burden and sigh deeply (weighed down, depressed, oppressed)—not that we want to put off the body (the clothing of the spirit), but rather that we would be further clothed, so that what is mortal (our dying body) may be swallowed up by life [after the resurrection].

Pls note the use of the TENT. Tent here means this flesh which houses our soul and spirit. When the body is put down in death, there's where our souls which is attached to out spirit goes.

do you know where you got it wrong, the verses where talking about those who where promised heavenly hope, those who will live in heaven, not those who will go to your hell fire.
It is also talking about there body after the resurrection, not before the resurrection. so these verses does not surpport your view that man will have a celestial body in hell prior to resurrection.
If you believe that Peter who died, and is in hell before resurrection, has a celestial body, what body do you think he will now receive after resurrection, another celestial body, or no body at all?
The use of tent shows the writers view of being in existence in a physical, human body as temporary. His aim is for his body to be changed from a physical one to a celestial one.

Luke 16:19-30
There was a certain rich man who [habitually] clothed himself in purple and fine linen and reveled and feasted and made merry in splendor every day.

And at his gate there was [carelessly] dropped down and left a certain utterly destitute man named Lazarus, [reduced to begging alms and] covered with [ulcerated] sores.

He [eagerly] desired to be satisfied with what fell from the rich man’s table; moreover, the dogs even came and licked his sores.

And it occurred that the man [reduced to] begging died and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom.

The rich man also died and was buried. And in Hades (the realm of the dead), being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far away, and Lazarus in his bosom.

And he cried out and said, Father Abraham, have pity and mercy on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.

But Abraham said, Child, remember that you in your lifetime fully received [what is due you in] comforts and delights, and Lazarus in like manner the discomforts and distresses; but now he is comforted here and you are in anguish.

And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, in order that those who want to pass from this [place] to you may not be able, and no one may pass from there to us. And [the man] said, Then, father, I beseech you to send him to my father’s house— For I have five brothers—so that he may give [solemn] testimony and warn them, lest they too come into this place of torment.

But Abraham said, They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear and listen to them. But he answered, No, father Abraham, but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent (change their minds for the better and heartily amend their ways, with abhorrence of their past sins).

Jesus used the known to reveal the unknown to us.

Hades, which is also referred to as Hell, is a location, a place. This realm of the dead is where the souls of men are kept AWAITING judgement. Here, everyone dies goes here according to the passage above. Nobody gets judged immediately they die.
And this realm comprises of two chasms, Paradise for those who lived right on earth like Lazarus, and Hades("hell", where there's torment but, the torment here can not be compared to the torment in the lake of fire).

if we follow your explanation, it means there is a pre judgment before actual judgement, some will be tomented before there case comes up for judgement.

taking the parable about lararus literally shows that the scriptures contracdict itself, ive shown you the condition of the dead earlier, and it does not correspond with the literal condition of lazarus and the rich man.
You ones said man is spirit which returns to God for judgment, this does not correspond with your literal belief in the parable of Lazarus and the rich man.
Lazarus died, his spirit goes to God, then gets judged, then gets sent to a part of hell.
Yet you said, while in hell, Lazarus has not yet been judged. can you see how your views contradict each other!

you mentioned paradise, by your explanation, it means paradise is in hell right?
1. can you surpport this with scripture
2. what happens to that paradise when hell is being thrown into the lake of fire?

have you ever read about the spirits going to hell? no.

are there other scriptures that do not surpport your views? yes.
King James Version
Ps 88:10Wilt thou shew wonders to the dead? shall the dead arise and praise thee? Selah.

King James Version
Ps 115:17The dead PRAISE NOT the LORD, neither ANY that go down into SILENCE.

Ps 115:17The dead do not praise Jah; Nor do any who go down into the silence of death.

the dead are silent, no discussion in hell. The dead are silent, Lazarus could not have been able to talk about God.


King James Version
Isa 38:18For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth.

When resurrection takes place, everyone, both good and bad shall be taken up out of this realm, place, location, and be judged. Some to everlasting life and some to the lake of fire. And Hades, which is also called hell, which is a location, or a place, shall also be cast into the lake of fire.

What happens to Hades in the lake of fire, why does God throw the paradise into the lake of fire?

Pls what do you mean by 'If we live after resurrection, the hope of resurrection is meaningless?" So when we resurrect we don't
Continue to live on?
Young man, Spirits don't die. We die only in our bodies. Our spirits forever, either in Hellfire or in Heaven with Christ.

the scriptures does not surpport your views.
do you know that the scriptures does not teach that we have individual spirits? , all our spirits(breathe of life are the same) . that's why when talking about that spirit, the scriptures use "spirit"and not "spirits" even when talking about more than one person.
The scriptures even went on to state that the spirit in you and I and animals are the same.

Ec 3:19for there is an outcome for humans and an outcome for animals; they all have the same outcome. As the one dies, so the other dies; and they all have but one spirit. So man has no superiority over animals, for everything is futile.
So what happens to the spirit in animals when they die?

The issues of Hellfire starts breaking apart when one looks at what burns there, the soul, the spirit , or the body. Some claim it's the spirit, some claim it's the soul, some claim it's the spirit and soul, while some claim it's the three, but they cannot surpport such views using the scriptures.

discussing what the soul really is gives credence to the bibles statement " adam became a living soul".



[/quote]

Sorry, You sound like a sadist ., Thts the effect of sleeping with the fear of religious hell .

analice107

Hey witch, [b] if you go through what I posted. It's the Bible, I didn't write the Bible.
[\b] You think you will escape? Oh Witch, you won't, except you repent.

But am yet to see dat part of ur holy book that said indestructible soul or spirit will go to hellfire !Not even one .All u wrote na analice107 philosophy

Instead , the bible Jesus keep saying " YOUR WHOLE BODY " as i show you from matt 5:29 and 30 .

now there is a problem with that verse , how many body have disapeared into hell ?

If you don't repent you will end up there, whether it's your spirit, your soul or your body which will burn, facts is, you Witch will burn. Call me whatever you like. You will burn. Daughter of serpent.

I see that matthew has just did a factory reset On you , you became confuse , see bold " WHETHER "

analice107:

Hey witch, if you go through what I posted. It's the Bible, I didn't write the Bible. You think you will escape? Oh Witch, you won't, except you repent.
Hellfire is imaginary, then why are you wailing ? If you don't repent you will end up there, whether it's your spirit, your soul or your body which will burn, facts is, you Witch will burn. Call me whatever you like. You will burn. Daughter of serpent.

Why cause people? This is a public forum and it's against the rules, We are here to learn and exchange ideas. Please apologize to her. Then you can now throw her into hellfire since you have the power to determine who goes to hellfire, Thanks.

MizJanet:
Sorry, You sound like a sadist ., Thts the effect of sleeping with the fear of religious hell .



But am yet to see dat part of ur holy book that said indestructible soul or spirit will go to hellfire !Not even one .All u wrote na analice107 philosophy

Instead , the bible Jesus keep saying " YOUR WHOLE BODY " as i show you from matt 5:29 and 30 .

now there is a problem with that verse , how many body have disapeared into hell ?



I see that matthew has just did a factory reset On you , you became confuse , see bold " WHETHER "

My joy is that, you have seen that you will go to hellfire if you don't repent. It's not important which part of you goes, you will go there if you remain a reprobate.

MizJanet:
Sorry, You sound like a sadist ., Thts the effect of sleeping with the fear of religious hell .



But am yet to see dat part of ur holy book that said indestructible soul or spirit will go to hellfire !Not even one .All u wrote na analice107 philosophy

Instead , the bible Jesus keep saying " YOUR WHOLE BODY " as i show you from matt 5:29 and 30 .

now there is a problem with that verse , how many body have disapeared into hell ?



I see that matthew has just did a factory reset On you , you became confuse , see bold " WHETHER "

Am so. Sorry to have called you a witch. That was way out of line. Pls forgive. Am sorry.

analice107:

My joy is that, you have seen that you will go to hellfire if you don't repent. It's not important which part of you goes, you will go there if you remain a reprobate.

even the bible will pity ur lack of understanding , the verse says body in hell when in reality Body go to grave . think ?

am not surprised, if u had given knowledge a chance , you will know that even the hell in that verse is a SCAM

virginboy1:

That's what I want if possible.
When the imaginary fantasies or postulations of miracles,healing with prayers,dividing of sea into two, commanding of dry bones to walk,sticks turning into snakes, becomes reality then maybe many of us might be convinced.

[b[Imagine johnnydon2 and platteon preaching the gospel. Choi...[/b]

What? what do these people know about science? Is it because of the noise they make on Nairaland? how many research have they done in a lab to verify facts for themselves?

Am not saying they are nobody sha, they are still humans, but do not think they are too tough to change. Compared to staunch evolutionist and scientists who have changed there beliefs, they are nothing. I don't think that any of them have really dwelve into this issues on there own.

These two guys you mentioned may not have done any single experiment in a lab to really see how strong or otherwise there stand is.

We have many REAL scientists that later changed. I give you an eg; Professor Yan-Der Hsuuw is the Director of embryo research at Taiwan's National Ping tung University of Science and Technology and once evolutionist. But what changed his belief was his study of embryo development.

There are others. I think someone here on Nairaland has knowledge of biology and he even kicks against evolution. I can't remember his moniker, but it seems like he is one David who claim to have PhD in his field. I do enjoy his arguments here though I don't know him too well.

If God wants to draw anyone, He will.

MizJanet:


what a heartless being you are ?


those who worship a cruel god becomes exactly like their god . the last line said it all

Jesus said BODY go to hell , not ur crazy theories up there . " Your WHOLE BODY IN Hell "
matthew 5:29 to 30

analice107 , as uv seen that ur lie lie spiri spiri theory is CRUSHED and Exposed in that Matthew, can you now tell me how many Body uv seen disappearing to ur imaginary hellfire ?



if none, does it mean Jesus lied ?

No ma! Jesus did not lie

those translators are actually stupid to insert hell into that verse , which is why it doesnt make sense .. of cos , your question is valid , how many whole body have been disposed to hell ? none, that show the cluelessness of using hell in bible translation , its makes the texts vague


in reality , Jesus did not lie .. he actually talked about putting the whole body in gehenna . yes dead bodies are thrown in Gehenna ( valley of hinnom, Gehinnom) of Jesus day . its not a place of conscious torment but a place of destruction . garbage dumped into gehenna are destroyed once and for all . Jesua use it to symbolize destruction .

matt 10:28 " fear him who can DESTROY both soul (life ) and BOdy in gehenna " destroy , not conscious torment .

^^^
atheist Miz Janet and follower of supossed jw's are allies in faith.

The master sowed good seeds while men were asleep the enemy devil came and sow weeds!