francis247:
God is perfect by virtue of his position; because he is GOD. Even more than our parents, He's perfect in all things. And no, He doesn't need your worship but desires it. We need Him to survive but he does not need us to, just like a child needs a parent.

seguun:
Hello Hardmirror,


indeed I salute your efforts in simply being human. our consciousness is no doubt the greatest weapon we possess as humans.


this whole concept of God and human relationship I will advice will be best understood by going for a SAFARI holidays (if you can afford it ofcourse. if you cant, pay more attention to the wild life documentaries on your local cables). you will realize that the SAFARI guides will instruct you never to interfere with whatever wildlife behavior you may experience in the wild. it's for your own safety first, but the ultimate reason is because whatever happens in the wild is exactly what makes the wild "alive" and "balances" the entire ecosystem. for instance, it's may be so terrifying to you to see a lion tearing a cute baby deer to pieces but if deers are left to proliferate, it may turn out harmful to the entire ecosystem. Hence, predators such as lions are natural agent to check their population.


Now coming to our own 'world' as humans with consciousness and all sorts of emotions. the sight of a boy without anus or famine ravaged community, or a blind man from birth...is really disturbing. While it becomes necessary for us to offer some help, it might just be the best thing for that particular time or situation. for instance, you missed your flight and it hurts you so much only to discover that the same flight crashed later. I know the next you will say is ; " so those who all died in the crash are not humans abi?!...you see my friend, the best thing aren't always what we like or desire. one of the passengers might be a very good person and a look into his future life, he might later turn evil. So death at that time might be the best thing for him to end it up on goodwill. Another passenger might be a hired assassin who has to go take the life of an innocent man...Even though it is necessary for all the agencies including the pilots and even passengers to make sure they have a safe flight...Also necessary for the authority to investigate the cause of the crash in other to avoid such later,whatever happens ultimately is the best at that particular time.


The problem with your former faith is that it pays so much emphasis on MIRACLES AND WONDERS...there is no way such faith won't continue to record situations like yours. Even though miracles exist, God occasionally performs miracles through any of his creatures when VERY NECESSARY. just in the case of war situation in a country, and the elephants were all killed for their ivory in other to purchase arms during the war. After the war, the government may result to buying elephants from other countries and reintroduced to the wild to balance the ecosystem again. if the animals in the SAFARI were humans and the government is God, you can see it's a necessary miracle because there's no way elephants would have gotten back to that wild without the intervention of a higher power because the elephants have been totally wiped out during the the war. Now in the case of you and your colleague "forcing" the poor dumb boy to speak, how do you determine at that time it is necessary for the boy to speak and that is the best thing for him.


So in essence my brother, you cannot force God to act out of your own ordinary human emotional feelings.


Think about this then we go next to "why there must be a God and the universal concept of God".


Thanks.

femicyrus:
if at the end, God is REAL!!! hardmirror have a lot to lose compared to other atheist. I should envy your reward for your labour but what a huge waste it will be.

but if at the end, God is not real; what do you think will be your gain apart from mocking Christian like you are doing already

seguun:
Hello Hardmirror,


indeed I salute your efforts in simply being human. our consciousness is no doubt the greatest weapon we possess as humans.


this whole concept of God and human relationship I will advice will be best understood by going for a SAFARI holidays (if you can afford it ofcourse. if you cant, pay more attention to the wild life documentaries on your local cables). you will realize that the SAFARI guides will instruct you never to interfere with whatever wildlife behavior you may experience in the wild. it's for your own safety first, but the ultimate reason is because whatever happens in the wild is exactly what makes the wild "alive" and "balances" the entire ecosystem. for instance, it's may be so terrifying to you to see a lion tearing a cute baby deer to pieces but if deers are left to proliferate, it may turn out harmful to the entire ecosystem. Hence, predators such as lions are natural agent to check their population.


Now coming to our own 'world' as humans with consciousness and all sorts of emotions. the sight of a boy without anus or famine ravaged community, or a blind man from birth...is really disturbing. While it becomes necessary for us to offer some help, it might just be the best thing for that particular time or situation. for instance, you missed your flight and it hurts you so much only to discover that the same flight crashed later. I know the next you will say is ; " so those who all died in the crash are not humans abi?!...you see my friend, the best thing aren't always what we like or desire. one of the passengers might be a very good person and a look into his future life, he might later turn evil. So death at that time might be the best thing for him to end it up on goodwill. Another passenger might be a hired assassin who has to go take the life of an innocent man...Even though it is necessary for all the agencies including the pilots and even passengers to make sure they have a safe flight...Also necessary for the authority to investigate the cause of the crash in other to avoid such later,whatever happens ultimately is the best at that particular time.


The problem with your former faith is that it pays so much emphasis on MIRACLES AND WONDERS...there is no way such faith won't continue to record situations like yours. Even though miracles exist, God occasionally performs miracles through any of his creatures when VERY NECESSARY. just in the case of war situation in a country, and the elephants were all killed for their ivory in other to purchase arms during the war. After the war, the government may result to buying elephants from other countries and reintroduced to the wild to balance the ecosystem again. if the animals in the SAFARI were humans and the government is God, you can see it's a necessary miracle because there's no way elephants would have gotten back to that wild without the intervention of a higher power because the elephants have been totally wiped out during the the war. Now in the case of you and your colleague "forcing" the poor dumb boy to speak, how do you determine at that time it is necessary for the boy to speak and that is the best thing for him.


So in essence my brother, you cannot force God to act out of your own ordinary human emotional feelings.


Think about this then we go next to "why there must be a God and the universal concept of God".


Thanks.

HardMirror:


I want to agree with you my dear brother.
Please what is the proof that man was created for the pleasure of God.

At least the possessions you mentioned have no choice. My phone has no choice but to serve me and do what it was designed to do.
So how do you know you were created for God's pleasure?

Awaiting your answer.

HardMirror:


Which one should we believe? Is God a god that answers His children? Yes or No. All I see here are excuses not to hold God accountable for his so called promises in the bible.

I will yet again bring up the issue of the baby born without anus.

Oh yes God is not emotional He does things for a purpose you claim. Hmmm. Nice.

So God created this baby without an anus, I am sure he did it to maintain the balance of the ecosystem just as you claim in your post right?

Then you also said we should not interfere with the balance God is trying to maintain.

Ok so we should leave the baby to die of accumulated toxins that would result from his inability to defecate?

Are you if doctors should operate on this baby they are interfering with God's original plan for the baby to die? Because it is obvious if we pray for the baby God won't do shiit even though you claim he created the baby and you will also claim God loves the baby, yet he will allow that baby to die a painful death?

Now it is making sense to me. Maybe God also created you with the inability to reason so the ecosystem will be balanced. Having too many smart people will be bad.

Answer me regarding that baby and other babies born crippled, born with heart defects, born with down syndrome, born with cancer, born with brain defects, born dumb, born deaf, born with 3 legs, born with 2 heads, born with 2 sex organs etc

How many of them has God restored? How many have surgeons fixed?

1.Does it mean surgeons are more capable than God?

2. Or does it mean surgeons are more compassionate than God?

3.Or does it mean Surgeons are Interfering with God?

femicyrus:


I know for sure that God is real and your opinion Is that He is not existing.
I don't want to be bias like you people in my write up hence I gave that conditional statement.

I can't force you to believe what I believe

francis247:
We have a choice unlike our gadgets.
Joshua 24:15 (KJV) And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.
Man is a free moral agent. It's because of his mercies that we are not consumed when we refuse to serve him. The proof that man was created for God's pleasure lies in different things He uses man to accomplish in different ways. From the strange, bizzare, unimaginable and unexplainable things happening accross the world, to the great, mighty and incomprehensible. For example you becoming an atheist from being a fervent christian, back to being an even more fervent christian again, drawing men back to christ.

frank317:


Ok... now I understand u.

Good, u cannot force me. But don't think ordinarily I should know? Forcing is even going to far.... u should even tell me in the first place. If God exists... everyone should know... have u seen anyone preaching that the sun exists and give us light by the day?

femicyrus:

You think the sun was constructed by a scientist
or the Moon a water Mellon in suspension
or the stars street lights from a city in another planet?

THE BIBLE TELLS US GOD CREATED THE SUN AND MOON AND OTHER LIGHT EMITTING BODIES, DAYS AFTER HE CREATED "DAY AND NIGHT " AND SEPARATED DAY FROM NIGHT!

HOW IS THAT EVEN POSSIBLE?

HOW CAN THERE BE LIGHT WITHOUT THE SUN?
BUT ON THE FIRST DAY HE SAID "LET THERE BE LIGHT, AND THERE WAS LIGHT ". ONLY FOR HIM TO GO ON TO MAKE THE SUN AND OTHER FIRMAMENTS DAYS AFTER, HOW IMPOSSIBLE!


LET ME TELL YOU SOMETHING BROE,
THERE'S JUST ONE "GOOD" REASON TO BELIEVE IN GOD; AND ITS BECAUSE THE BIBLE SAYS WE SHOULD

BUT THEN THERE'S ANOTHER ONE MILLION "BETTER" REASONS TO NOT BELIEVE IN HIM... THEY'RE EVIDENT IN EVERY SINGLE ASPECT OF LIFE!

taurus25:

from your long rant if i simply replace GOD with TOMATO it would make more sense

ALL HAIL OUR ALMIGHTY TOMATO! !!

francis247:
God is perfect by virtue of his position; because he is GOD. Even more than our parents, He's perfect in all things. And no, He doesn't need your worship but desires it. We need Him to survive but he does not need us to, just like a child needs a parent.

God is perfect by virtue of his position

He doesn't need your worship but desires it

We need Him to survive but he does not need us to

just like a child needs a parent

seguun:
Hello Hardmirror,


indeed I salute your efforts in simply being human. our consciousness is no doubt the greatest weapon we possess as humans.


this whole concept of God and human relationship I will advice will be best understood by going for a SAFARI holidays (if you can afford it ofcourse. if you cant, pay more attention to the wild life documentaries on your local cables). you will realize that the SAFARI guides will instruct you never to interfere with whatever wildlife behavior you may experience in the wild. it's for your own safety first, but the ultimate reason is because whatever happens in the wild is exactly what makes the wild "alive" and "balances" the entire ecosystem. for instance, it's may be so terrifying to you to see a lion tearing a cute baby deer to pieces but if deers are left to proliferate, it may turn out harmful to the entire ecosystem. Hence, predators such as lions are natural agent to check their population.


Now coming to our own 'world' as humans with consciousness and all sorts of emotions. the sight of a boy without anus or famine ravaged community, or a blind man from birth...is really disturbing. While it becomes necessary for us to offer some help, it might just be the best thing for that particular time or situation. for instance, you missed your flight and it hurts you so much only to discover that the same flight crashed later. I know the next you will say is ; " so those who all died in the crash are not humans abi?!...you see my friend, the best thing aren't always what we like or desire. one of the passengers might be a very good person and a look into his future life, he might later turn evil. So death at that time might be the best thing for him to end it up on goodwill. Another passenger might be a hired assassin who has to go take the life of an innocent man...Even though it is necessary for all the agencies including the pilots and even passengers to make sure they have a safe flight...Also necessary for the authority to investigate the cause of the crash in other to avoid such later,whatever happens ultimately is the best at that particular time.


The problem with your former faith is that it pays so much emphasis on MIRACLES AND WONDERS...there is no way such faith won't continue to record situations like yours. Even though miracles exist, God occasionally performs miracles through any of his creatures when VERY NECESSARY. just in the case of war situation in a country, and the elephants were all killed for their ivory in other to purchase arms during the war. After the war, the government may result to buying elephants from other countries and reintroduced to the wild to balance the ecosystem again. if the animals in the SAFARI were humans and the government is God, you can see it's a necessary miracle because there's no way elephants would have gotten back to that wild without the intervention of a higher power because the elephants have been totally wiped out during the the war. Now in the case of you and your colleague "forcing" the poor dumb boy to speak, how do you determine at that time it is necessary for the boy to speak and that is the best thing for him.


So in essence my brother, you cannot force God to act out of your own ordinary human emotional feelings.


Think about this then we go next to "why there must be a God and the universal concept of God".


Thanks.

HardMirror:

You are yet to tell us how you know all this. Just tell me how you know all this shikena

frank317:


Ok... now I understand u.

Good, u cannot force me. But don't think ordinarily I should know? Forcing is even going to far.... u should even tell me in the first place. If God exists... everyone should know... have u seen anyone preaching that the sun exists and give us light by the day?

SIMPLE!

geesampower:

I think the question being asked is VERY SIMPLE, you are yet to answer it. HOW DO YOU KNOW WE WERE CREATED FOR GOD'S PLEASURE? Simple. Just give a straight answer.

HardMirror:


Which one should we believe? Is God a god that answers His children? Yes or No. All I see here are excuses not to hold God accountable for his so called promises in the bible.

I will yet again bring up the issue of the baby born without anus.

Oh yes God is not emotional He does things for a purpose you claim. Hmmm. Nice.

So God created this baby without an anus, I am sure he did it to maintain the balance of the ecosystem just as you claim in your post right?

Then you also said we should not interfere with the balance God is trying to maintain.

Ok so we should leave the baby to die of accumulated toxins that would result from his inability to defecate?

Are you if doctors should operate on this baby they are interfering with God's original plan for the baby to die? Because it is obvious if we pray for the baby God won't do shiit even though you claim he created the baby and you will also claim God loves the baby, yet he will allow that baby to die a painful death?

Now it is making sense to me. Maybe God also created you with the inability to reason so the ecosystem will be balanced. Having too many smart people will be bad.

Answer me regarding that baby and other babies born crippled, born with heart defects, born with down syndrome, born with cancer, born with brain defects, born dumb, born deaf, born with 3 legs, born with 2 heads, born with 2 sex organs etc

How many of them has God restored? How many have surgeons fixed?

1.Does it mean surgeons are more capable than God?

2. Or does it mean surgeons are more compassionate than God?

3.Or does it mean Surgeons are Interfering with God?

seguun:



But if you read my post carefully Hardmirror, I've covered your questions already. read the part about "the flight", there I said, all the agencies, the pilots, and even the passengers have to work to make sure they have a safe flight. further I said also that the government has to investigate the cause of the crash in other to avoid such in the future. However after doing what we are supposed to do as humans, whatever happens ULTIMATELY is the best for that moment.
The best thing doesn't have to be what we like.
in the case of a boy without anus, people living with deadly diseases, and so on, it is our responsibility to make sure we provide adequate medical help to them. after all our efforts, whatever happens my friend, is meant have happened.


Do you realised that the so called science itself is among those miracles from God you so much want to experience. in my last post I said God can perform miracle through any of his creatures. then I also said our consciousness as humans is the greatest weapon we possess. With our intelligence, without asking for God's direct intervention we can sort ourselves out. Miracles steers you in the face in science. The gift of intelligence which God created and imbedded into man in other to make him survive in his environment. Prophet Muhammad (saw) once told his companions that : "when a man can listen to himself talking, then the HOUR is near". those people around him 1400 years ago believed that would be a miracle. But in this age, it appears normal to us...i can simply record my voice and playback...not knowing it's part of God's miracles using us to perform through the gift of intelligence. But you rather want to see a mighty angelic figure from the skies or a face appearing from heaven commanding the boy anus to have holes immediately. If we will get such direct help everytime then what's the use of our intelligence?


You may also want to bring up the atheist argument that our intelligence is as a result of evolution. But how come its only the human specie that is able to evolve into been intelligent and rational. How come other animals who have been in existence millions of years before humans are yet to possess this powerful weapon?


Again I have to repeat, so much emphasis and importance placed on direct miracles from God leads you to your present state.

swaggzo:


YOU STARTED A LITTLE BIT INTELLIGENTLY AND I STARTED TO FEEL YOU'RE REASONABLE... . BUT IN THE END YOU WENT ON TO EXPOSE YOUR "UN-COVERABLE" DUMBNESS.

geesampower:

Na wa o!
You are yet to answer his questions. There are 4 direct questions there.

Abeg pick them and answer. You dribbled and avoided them claiming doctors have to do their jobs. So if that baby dies before the parents can pay for the surgery, whose fault is it. Why can't they just pray and the God miraculously give the baby an anus? At least that would save a lot of money and stress and then we can all be happy?

seguun:



But if you read my post carefully Hardmirror, I've covered your questions already. read the part about "the flight", there I said, all the agencies, the pilots, and even the passengers have to work to make sure they have a safe flight. further I said also that the government has to investigate the cause of the crash in other to avoid such in the future. However after doing what we are supposed to do as humans, whatever happens ULTIMATELY is the best for that moment.
The best thing doesn't have to be what we like.
in the case of a boy without anus, people living with deadly diseases, and so on, it is our responsibility to make sure we provide adequate medical help to them. after all our efforts, whatever happens my friend, is meant have happened.


Do you realised that the so called science itself is among those miracles from God you so much want to experience. in my last post I said God can perform miracle through any of his creatures. then I also said our consciousness as humans is the greatest weapon we possess. With our intelligence, without asking for God's direct intervention we can sort ourselves out. Miracles steers you in the face in science. The gift of intelligence which God created and imbedded into man in other to make him survive in his environment. Prophet Muhammad (saw) once told his companions that : "when a man can listen to himself talking, then the HOUR is near". those people around him 1400 years ago believed that would be a miracle. But in this age, it appears normal to us...i can simply record my voice and playback...not knowing it's part of God's miracles using us to perform through the gift of intelligence. But you rather want to see a mighty angelic figure from the skies or a face appearing from heaven commanding the boy anus to have holes immediately. If we will get such direct help everytime then what's the use of our intelligence?


You may also want to bring up the atheist argument that our intelligence is as a result of evolution. But how come its only the human specie that is able to evolve into been intelligent and rational. How come other animals who have been in existence millions of years before humans are yet to possess this powerful weapon?


Again I have to repeat, so much emphasis and importance placed on direct miracles from God leads you to your present state.

seguun:


praying to God to operate the boy when you already have his gift of intelligence that made you invent various medical practices that can correct the boy's situation?.

My holistic reply has answered all his questions unless you want me to start numbering like kindergarten.

seguun:


praying to God to operate the boy when you already have his gift of intelligence that made you invent various medical practices that can correct the boy's situation?.

My holistic reply has answered all his questions unless you want me to start numbering like kindergarten.

lepasharon:


Why should we even need medical practices anyway when we have God? why does God need to work through medical personnel

HardMirror:
You can read Part 1 here is you missed it www.nairaland.com/3078223/pastor-atheist-why-never-christian

Had to create this new thread because the other one was saturated with junks.

iamphill:


Read this and reflect on it.....Have a great day bro.........

In a mother’s womb were two babies. One asked the other: “Do you believe in life after delivery?” The other replied, “Why, of course. There has to be something after delivery. Maybe we are here to prepare ourselves for what we will be later.”
“Nonsense” said the first. “There is no life after delivery. What kind of life would that be?”
The second said, “I don’t know, but there will be more light than here. Maybe we will walk with our legs and eat from our mouths. Maybe we will have other senses that we can’t understand now.”
The first replied, “That is absurd. Walking is impossible. And eating with our mouths? Ridiculous! The umbilical cord supplies nutrition and everything we need. But the umbilical cord is so short. Life after delivery is to be logically excluded.”
The second insisted, “Well I think there is something and maybe it’s different than it is here. Maybe we won’t need this physical cord anymore.”
The first replied, “Nonsense. And moreover if there is life, then why has no one has ever come back from there? Delivery is the end of life, and in the after-delivery there is nothing but darkness and silence and oblivion. It takes us nowhere.”
“Well, I don’t know,” said the second, “but certainly we will meet Mother and she will take care of us.”
The first replied “Mother? You actually believe in Mother? That’s laughable. If Mother exists then where is She now?”
The second said, “She is all around us. We are surrounded by her. We are of Her. It is in Her that we live. Without Her this world would not and could not exist.”
Said the first: “Well I don’t see Her, so it is only logical that She doesn’t exist.”
To which the second replied, “Sometimes, when you’re in silence and you focus and you really listen, you can perceive Her presence, and you can hear Her loving voice, calling down from above.

urahara:





So when. she gives birth to them . does she throw her child into a fire to be tortured infinitely for infinity just because he didnt believe she existed.

iamphill:



Relax and read my post again you missed the salient point potrayed. Dont be in a rush to showcase your ignorance on issues you know nothing about.

iamphill:


Read this and reflect on it.....Have a great day bro.........

In a mother’s womb were two babies. One asked the other: “Do you believe in life after delivery?” The other replied, “Why, of course. There has to be something after delivery. Maybe we are here to prepare ourselves for what we will be later.”
“Nonsense” said the first. “There is no life after delivery. What kind of life would that be?”
The second said, “I don’t know, but there will be more light than here. Maybe we will walk with our legs and eat from our mouths. Maybe we will have other senses that we can’t understand now.”
The first replied, “That is absurd. Walking is impossible. And eating with our mouths? Ridiculous! The umbilical cord supplies nutrition and everything we need. But the umbilical cord is so short. Life after delivery is to be logically excluded.”
The second insisted, “Well I think there is something and maybe it’s different than it is here. Maybe we won’t need this physical cord anymore.”
The first replied, “Nonsense. And moreover if there is life, then why has no one has ever come back from there? Delivery is the end of life, and in the after-delivery there is nothing but darkness and silence and oblivion. It takes us nowhere.”
“Well, I don’t know,” said the second, “but certainly we will meet Mother and she will take care of us.”
The first replied “Mother? You actually believe in Mother? That’s laughable. If Mother exists then where is She now?”
The second said, “She is all around us. We are surrounded by her. We are of Her. It is in Her that we live. Without Her this world would not and could not exist.”
Said the first: “Well I don’t see Her, so it is only logical that She doesn’t exist.”
To which the second replied, “Sometimes, when you’re in silence and you focus and you really listen, you can perceive Her presence, and you can hear Her loving voice, calling down from above.

God does exist because you cant see him doesnt mean he doesnt exist. I know you are smart and you will try and poke holes in this write-up, note am not contesting your belief with you, am just suggesting you reflect deeply on this. Cheers Bro

urahara:



U saying atheist lack the belief in god because they cant see him is absurd. We cant see the sub atomic particles because we know they exist because of there is a lot of evidence to back up their existence .


What of gamma rays , microwaves , photons , .


What. Of. Infra red , gluons and positerons



But on the issue of god ,


There is ........ .....



No single shred of evidence for his existence .




......


On the bolded , nigga u so dont want to start with me dis morning.

iamphill:


Read this and reflect on it.....Have a great day bro.........

In a mother’s womb were two babies. One asked the other: “Do you believe in life after delivery?” The other replied, “Why, of course. There has to be something after delivery. Maybe we are here to prepare ourselves for what we will be later.”
“Nonsense” said the first. “There is no life after delivery. What kind of life would that be?”
The second said, “I don’t know, but there will be more light than here. Maybe we will walk with our legs and eat from our mouths. Maybe we will have other senses that we can’t understand now.”
The first replied, “That is absurd. Walking is impossible. And eating with our mouths? Ridiculous! The umbilical cord supplies nutrition and everything we need. But the umbilical cord is so short. Life after delivery is to be logically excluded.”
The second insisted, “Well I think there is something and maybe it’s different than it is here. Maybe we won’t need this physical cord anymore.”
The first replied, “Nonsense. And moreover if there is life, then why has no one has ever come back from there? Delivery is the end of life, and in the after-delivery there is nothing but darkness and silence and oblivion. It takes us nowhere.”
“Well, I don’t know,” said the second, “but certainly we will meet Mother and she will take care of us.”
The first replied “Mother? You actually believe in Mother? That’s laughable. If Mother exists then where is She now?”
The second said, “She is all around us. We are surrounded by her. We are of Her. It is in Her that we live. Without Her this world would not and could not exist.”
Said the first: “Well I don’t see Her, so it is only logical that She doesn’t exist.”
To which the second replied, “Sometimes, when you’re in silence and you focus and you really listen, you can perceive Her presence, and you can hear Her loving voice, calling down from above.

God does exist because you cant see him doesnt mean he doesnt exist. I know you are smart and you will try and poke holes in this write-up, note am not contesting your belief with you, am just suggesting you reflect deeply on this. Cheers Bro