5solas:

The belief that a believer can lose salvation is false! You merely deceive the uninitiated while the initiated laugh at you. The belief is a conclusion founded on faulty premises. Keep it! Why those of us who believe we can't be lost will keep ours. Our belief is founded on the revealed truths which it is clear you are not ready to consider. Farewell!

You speak for yourself.

Ignore Jesus' words in John 15:2 at your own peril!

[size=15pt]Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
John 15:2[/size]

Here are several Scriptures on Election: God's sovereign purpose in salvation.
Those who believe and teach that salvation can be lost must get past these, at least, to be sucessful!

ELECTION * * * * * * * THE BIBLE TEACHES IT. STOP DENYING IT.

Here are several Scriptures on Election: God's sovereign purpose in salvation.


Exodus 33:19, "And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy."

Deut. 7:6-8, "For thou [art] an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that [are] upon the face of the earth. The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye [were] the fewest of all people: But because the LORD loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the LORD brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt."

Deut. 10:15, "Only the LORD had a delight in thy fathers to love them, and he chose their seed after them, [even] you above all people, as [it is] this day."

Joshua 11:20, "For it was of the LORD to harden their hearts, that they should come against Israel in battle, that he might destroy them utterly, [and] that they might have no favour, but that he might destroy them, as the LORD commanded Moses."

I Kings 20:42, "And he said unto him, Thus saith the LORD, Because thou hast let go out of [thy] hand a man whom I appointed to utter destruction, therefore thy life shall go for his life, and thy people for his people."

II Chronicles 6:6, "But I have chosen Jerusalem, that my name might be there; and have chosen David to be over my people Israel."

Psalm 33:12, "Blessed [is] the nation whose God [is] the LORD; [and] the people [whom] he hath chosen for his own inheritance."

Psalm 65:4 "Blessed [is the man whom] thou choosest, and causest to approach [unto thee, that] he may dwell in thy courts: we shall be satisfied with the goodness of thy house, [even] of thy holy temple."

Psalm 78:67-70, "Moreover he refused the tabernacle of Joseph, and chose not the tribe of Ephraim: But chose the tribe of Judah, the mount Zion which he loved. And he built his sanctuary like high [palaces], like the earth, which he hath established forever. He chose David also his servant, and took him from the sheepfolds:"

Psalm 135:4, "For the LORD hath chosen Jacob unto himself, [and] Israel for his peculiar treasure."

Proverbs 16:4, "The LORD hath made all [things] for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil."

Proverbs 21:1, "The king's heart [is] in the hand of the LORD, [as] the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will."

Isaiah 44:1-2, "Yet now hear, O Jacob my servant; and Israel, whom I have chosen: Thus saith the LORD that made thee, and formed thee from the womb, [which] will help thee; Fear not, O Jacob, my servant; and thou, Jesurun, whom I have chosen, "

Isaiah 45:4, "For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me."

Jeremiah 1:5, "Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, [and] I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations."

Malachi 1:2-3, "I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? [Was] not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob, And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness, "

Matthew 20:16, "So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen, "

Matthew 24:22, 24 "And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened, For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect, "

Mark 13:20, 22, 27 "And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days…For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if [it were] possible, even the elect…And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven."

Luke 8:10, "And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand." (Matthew 11:25)

Luke 18:7, "And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?."

John 10:14-16, "I am the good shepherd, and know my [sheep], and am known of mine. As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, [and] one shepherd , But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you."

John 13:18, "I speak not of you all: I know whom I have chosen: but that the scripture may be fulfilled, He that eateth bread with me hath lifted up his heel against me."

John 15:16, "Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, "

John 15:19, "If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you."

John 17:9, "I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine, "

Acts 2:23, "Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:"

Acts 2:46-47, "And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart, Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved."

Acts 4:27,28, "For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together, For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done."

Acts 13:48, "And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed."

Acts 22:14, "And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth."

Romans 8:29,30,33, "For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? [It is] God that justifieth, Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? [It is] God that justifieth."

Romans 9:6-26,
Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they [are] not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, [are they] all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these [are] not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. For this [is] the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son. And not only [this]; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, [even] by our father Isaac; (For [the children] being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that callethwink It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. What shall we say then? [Is there] unrighteousness with God? God forbid. For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then [it is] not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will [have mercy], and whom he will he hardeneth. Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed [it], Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? [What] if God, willing to shew [his] wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved. And it shall come to pass, [that] in the place where it was said unto them, Ye [are] not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.

Romans 11:5,7.8What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hearwink unto this day. Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. As concerning the gospel, [they are] enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, [they are] beloved for the fathers' sakes.

Cor. 1:27-29, "But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, [yea], and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: That no flesh should glory in his presence."

Galatians 1:15, "But it pleased God who separated me from my mother's womb at birth, and called me by his grace."

Ephesians 1:5,11, "Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:"

Ephesians 3:11, "According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:"

Colossians 3:12, "Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;"

1 Thessalonians 1:4, "Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God."

1 Thessalonians 5:9, "For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,"

2 Thessalonians 2:13, "But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:"

2 Timothy 2:10, "Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory."

Titus 1:1, "Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;"

1 Peter 1:1,2, "Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied."

1 Peter 2:9, "But ye [are] a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:"

1 Peter 5:13, "The [church that is] at Babylon, elected together with [you], saluteth you; and [so doth] Marcus my son."

2 Peter 1:10, "Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:"




The preceding has been what the Bible has to say concerning election. If at this juncture, one still refuses to believe the doctrine of election, then I am sorry to have to pronounce you dead. That is correct. Only the dead will not and cannot see this truth unless/until the Father of life opens the eyes and gives a new heart capable of believing, and this, ONLY, if it is His will to do so, Me thinks the Word of God is pretty clear on it though. My God be pleased to give you the understanding needed to have this precious security and Truth in your life too. Peace to you.


Iamproorizo paul

http://www.sovereignpotter.com/Election_the_Bible_teaches_it.html

5solas:

The belief that a believer can lose salvation is false! You merely deceive the uninitiated while the initiated laugh at you. The belief is a conclusion founded on faulty premises. Keep it! Why those of us who believe we can't be lost will keep ours. Our belief is founded on the revealed truths which it is clear you are not ready to consider. Farewell!

it is the will of the Father that all be saved... question is are all saved?
secondly are you one of those that only believe/read the new testament to the neglect of the old

promise10:


Is it not shameful that you read my post, which I proposed with real scriptures, but only replied with this response.

You said that I am twisting the scriptures to suit me? I won't take that serious until you DISPROVE me with BIBLICAL SCRIPTURE.

Until then, I will take you serious!

okay

sonofthunder:

it is the will of the Father that all be saved... question is are all saved?

So God is not omnipotent? Is that your argument?
What is the meaning of Jesus here? That He will save ALL?
Matthew 11

25 ¶ At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.

27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

sonofthunder:

secondly are you one of those that only believe/read the new testament to the neglect of the old

I believe in the whole Bible.

5solas:

So God is not omnipotent? Is that your argument?
What is the meaning of Jesus here? That He will save ALL?
Matthew 11



I believe in the whole Bible.

you didn't answer the first question or is my assertion in asking that question wrong.
God is omnipotent... undisputed.

sonofthunder:

you didn't answer the first question or is my assertion in asking that question wrong.
God is omnipotent... undisputed.

You didn't see or read Matthew 11:25-27?

5solas:


You didn't see or read Matthew 11:25-27?

I did. still doesn't answer my question... was Jesus revealed to Judas? was Judas saved?

sonofthunder:

I did. still doesn't answer my question... was Jesus revealed to Judas? was Judas saved?

Who better to tell you than Jesus Himself!
John 6:64

But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

John 17

6 ¶ I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest
them me; and they have kept thy word.
7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.
8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.
9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.
11 ¶ And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

5solas:

Who better to tell you than Jesus Himself!
John 6:64

John 17

please summarize your point in plain English.

sonofthunder:

please summarize your point in plain English.

In plain English, God saves in time all He chose to save in eternity past.

SHALOM!

"ETERNAL SECURITY" is based on the VIOLATION of a FUNDAMENTAL GOSPEL PRINCIPLE:

. LUKE 14:7-11.

7. And he put forth a Parable to those which were bidden,
when he marked how they chose out the Chief Rooms;
saying unto them.
8. "When thou art bidden of any man to a wedding,
sit not down in The Highest Room;
lest a more honourable man than thou be bidden of him;
9. "And he that bade thee and him come and say to thee,

'GIVE THIS MAN PLACE;'

and thou begin with shame to take The Lowest Room.
10. "But when thou art bidden, go and sit down in The Lowest Room;
that when he that bade thee cometh, he may say unto thee,

'FRIEND, GO UP HIGHER:'

then shalt thou have worship in the presence of them
that sit at meat with thee.
11. "For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased;
and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted."

PEOPLE ARE TAUGHT TO DECLARE THEMSELVES "SAVED:" because some MADMAN told them to do so.

THAT is contrary to YAHSHUA'S Teachings.

.   MATTHEW 7:21-29.

21. "Not every one
that saith unto me, 'Lord, Lord,'
shall enter into
The Kingdom of Heaven;
but he that doeth
The Will of my Father Which is in Heaven.
22. "Many will say to me in That Day,

'LORD, LORD, HAVE WE NOT PROPHESIED IN THY NAME?
AND IN THY NAME HAVE CAST OUT DEVILS?
AND IN THY NAME DONE MANY WONDERFUL WORKS?'

23. "And then will I profess unto them,

'I NEVER KNEW YOU:
DEPART FROM ME,
YE THAT WORK INIQUITY.'

24. "Therefore whosoever heareth
these Sayings of mine, and doeth them,
I will liken him unto a Wise Man,
which built his House upon a Rock:
25. "And the rain descended, and the floods came,
and the winds blew, and beat upon that House;
and it Fell not: for it was founded upon a Rock.
26. "And every one that heareth
these Sayings of mine, and doeth them not,
shall be likened unto a Foolish Man,
which built his house upon the Sand:
27. "And the rain descended, and the floods came,
and the winds blew, and beat upon that House;
and it Fell: and Great was The Fall of it."
28. And it came to pass,
when Jesus had ended these Sayings,
the People were astonished at his Doctrine:
29. For he Taught them as One having Authority,
and not as the scribes.

THE BIBLE SAYS that if you BELIEVE certain things, and SAY certain things, THEN YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO CALL YOURSELF "SAVED."

. ROMANS 10:5-13.

5. For Moses describeth the Righteousness which is of The Law,

"THAT THE MAN WHICH DOETH THOSE THINGS
SHALL LIVE BY THEM."

6. But the Righteousness which is of Faith speaketh on this wise,

“SAY NOT IN THINE HEART,

'WHO SHALL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN?'

[that is, to bring Christ down from above:]

7. “OR, WHO SHALL DESCEND INTO THE DEEP?”

[that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.]
8. But what saith it?

“THE WORD IS NIGH THEE,
EVEN IN THY MOUTH,
AND IN THY HEART:

That is, The Word of Faith, which we preach;

9. “THAT IF THOU SHALT
CONFESS WITH THY MOUTH
THE LORD JESUS,
AND SHALT BELIEVE IN THINE HEART
THAT GOD HATH RAISED HIM FROM THE DEAD,
THOU SHALT BE SAVED.”

10. For with the heart man believeth unto Righteousness;
and with the mouth confession is made unto Salvation.
11. For the Scripture saith,

“WHOSOEVER BELIEVETH ON HIM
SHALL NOT BE ASHAMED.”

12. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek:
for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13. For whosoever shall call upon
the Name of the Lord shall be Saved.

THE PROBLEM is that those who gace such guarantees ARE EITHER NOT AUTHORIZED TO TELL SAY THAT AT ALL- or else THEY were NOT talking to US.

^shikena

oaroloye:
SHALOM!

"ETERNAL SECURITY" is based on the VIOLATION of a FUNDAMENTAL GOSPEL PRINCIPLE:

. LUKE 14:7-11.

7. And he put forth a Parable to those which were bidden,
when he marked how they chose out the Chief Rooms;
saying unto them.
8. "When thou art bidden of any man to a wedding,
sit not down in The Highest Room;
lest a more honourable man than thou be bidden of him;
9. "And he that bade thee and him come and say to thee,

'GIVE THIS MAN PLACE;'

and thou begin with shame to take The Lowest Room.
10. "But when thou art bidden, go and sit down in The Lowest Room;
that when he that bade thee cometh, he may say unto thee,

'FRIEND, GO UP HIGHER:'

then shalt thou have worship in the presence of them
that sit at meat with thee.
11. "For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased;
and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted."

Playing to the gallery! It is not unexpected! It is one of the hallmarks of Arminians!
Pride or/and humility are not the issues here!
People who believe as I do, do not base their assurance of salvation in themselves. On the contrary, they fully rest it on Christ and His work on the cross. To quote some of my ilks, ''on His finished work.''
We say like Paul:

1 Whatever happens, my dear brothers and sisters, rejoice in the Lord. I never get tired of telling you these things, and I do it to safeguard your faith. 2 Watch out for those dogs, those people who do evil, those mutilators who say you must be circumcised to be saved. 3 For we who worship by the Spirit of God are the ones who are truly circumcised. We rely on what Christ Jesus has done for us. We put no confidence in human effort, 4 though I could have confidence in my own effort if anyone could. Indeed, if others have reason for confidence in their own efforts, I have even more! 5 I was circumcised when I was eight days old. I am a pure-blooded citizen of Israel and a member of the tribe of Benjamin—a real Hebrew if there ever was one! I was a member of the Pharisees, who demand the strictest obedience to the Jewish law. 6 I was so zealous that I harshly persecuted the church. And as for righteousness, I obeyed the law without fault. 7 I once thought these things were valuable, but now I consider them worthless because of what Christ has done. 8 Yes, everything else is worthless when compared with the infinite value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have discarded everything else, counting it all as garbage, so that I could gain Christ 9 and become one with him. I no longer count on my own righteousness through obeying the law; rather, I become righteous through faith in Christ. For God’s way of making us right with himself depends on faith. 10 I want to know Christ and experience the mighty power that raised him from the dead. I want to suffer with him, sharing in his death, 11 so that one way or another I will experience the resurrection from the dead! 12 I don’t mean to say that I have already achieved these things or that I have already reached perfection. But I press on to possess that perfection for which Christ Jesus first possessed me. 13 No, dear brothers and sisters, I have not achieved it, but I focus on this one thing: Forgetting the past and looking forward to what lies ahead, 14 I press on to reach the end of the race and receive the heavenly prize for which God, through Christ Jesus, is calling us. 15 Let all who are spiritually mature agree on these things. If you disagree on some point, I believe God will make it plain to you. 16 But we must hold on to the progress we have already made. 17 Dear brothers and sisters, pattern your lives after mine, and learn from those who follow our example. 18 For I have told you often before, and I say it again with tears in my eyes, that there are many whose conduct shows they are really enemies of the cross of Christ. 19 They are headed for destruction. Their god is their appetite, they brag about shameful things, and they think only about this life here on earth. 20 But we are citizens of heaven, where the Lord Jesus Christ lives. And we are eagerly waiting for him to return as our Savior. 21 He will take our weak mortal bodies and change them into glorious bodies like his own, using the same power with which he will bring everything under his control.

Phil. 3

oaroloye:
SHALOM!
PEOPLE ARE TAUGHT TO DECLARE THEMSELVES "SAVED:" because some MADMAN told them to do so.

THAT is contrary to YAHSHUA'S Teachings.

May God's peace and joy be multiplied in you, in Jesus' name, amen.

oaroloye:
SHALOM!
.   MATTHEW 7:21-29.

21. "Not every one
that saith unto me, 'Lord, Lord,'
shall enter into
The Kingdom of Heaven;
but he that doeth
The Will of my Father Which is in Heaven.
22. "Many will say to me in That Day,

'LORD, LORD, HAVE WE NOT PROPHESIED IN THY NAME?
AND IN THY NAME HAVE CAST OUT DEVILS?
AND IN THY NAME DONE MANY WONDERFUL WORKS?'

23. "And then will I profess unto them,

'I NEVER KNEW YOU:
DEPART FROM ME,
YE THAT WORK INIQUITY.'

Amen! He will say,''I never knew you!'' Not, ''I knew you until you lost your salvation!''[/quote]

oaroloye:
[b]SHALOM!
24. "Therefore whosoever heareth
these Sayings of mine, and doeth them,
I will liken him unto a Wise Man,
which built his House upon a Rock:
25. "And the rain descended, and the floods came,
and the winds blew, and beat upon that House;
and it Fell not: for it was founded upon a Rock.
26. "And every one that heareth
these Sayings of mine, and doeth them not,
shall be likened unto a Foolish Man,
which built his house upon the Sand:
27. "And the rain descended, and the floods came,
and the winds blew, and beat upon that House;
and it Fell: and Great was The Fall of it."
28. And it came to pass,
when Jesus had ended these Sayings,
the People were astonished at his Doctrine:
29. For he Taught them as One having Authority,
and not as the scribes.

This is nothing to the purpose! The argument is not whether a believer has to do good works after salvation.
So you have to give your list of what saves to prove your point.You have to tell us if you believe salvation is by faith alone or otherwise.

oaroloye:

THE BIBLE SAYS that if you BELIEVE certain things, and SAY certain things, THEN YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO CALL YOURSELF "SAVED."

. ROMANS 10:5-13.

5. For Moses describeth the Righteousness which is of The Law,

"THAT THE MAN WHICH DOETH THOSE THINGS
SHALL LIVE BY THEM."

6. But the Righteousness which is of Faith speaketh on this wise,

“SAY NOT IN THINE HEART,

'WHO SHALL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN?'

[that is, to bring Christ down from above:]

7. “OR, WHO SHALL DESCEND INTO THE DEEP?”

[that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.]
8. But what saith it?

“THE WORD IS NIGH THEE,
EVEN IN THY MOUTH,
AND IN THY HEART:

That is, The Word of Faith, which we preach;

9. “THAT IF THOU SHALT
CONFESS WITH THY MOUTH
THE LORD JESUS,
AND SHALT BELIEVE IN THINE HEART
THAT GOD HATH RAISED HIM FROM THE DEAD,
THOU SHALT BE SAVED.”

10. For with the heart man believeth unto Righteousness;
and with the mouth confession is made unto Salvation.
11. For the Scripture saith,

“WHOSOEVER BELIEVETH ON HIM
SHALL NOT BE ASHAMED.”

12. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek:
for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13. For whosoever shall call upon
the Name of the Lord shall be Saved.

THE PROBLEM is that those who gace such guarantees ARE EITHER NOT AUTHORIZED TO TELL SAY THAT AT ALL- or else THEY were NOT talking to US.

The problem you are having is that you are shutting your eyes to so many things the Bible is saying! All those passages of Jesus where He talks of people being given to Him, His choice of persons, some people being is sheep are nothing to you!
The fundamental problem you have is that of freewill.You don't even understand that man is not saved by freewill but by the grace of God.

8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son.
10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth ; )
12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14 ¶ What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
25 ¶ As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.
27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:
28 For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth.
29 And as Esaias said before, Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we had been as Sodoma, and been made like unto Gomorrha.
30 ¶ What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Romans 9

What is the use (profit), my brethren, for anyone to profess to have faith if he has no [good] works [to show for it]? Can [such] faith save [his soul]?

15If a brother or sister is poorly clad and lacks food for each day,

16And one of you says to him, Good-bye! Keep [yourself] warm and well fed, without giving him the necessities for the body, what good does that do?

17So also faith, if it does not have works (deeds and actions of obedience to back it up), by itself is destitute of power (inoperative, dead).

18But someone will say [to you then], You [say you] have faith, and I have [good] works. Now you show me your [alleged] faith apart from any [good] works [if you can], and I by [good] works [of obedience] will show you my faith.

19You believe that God is one; you do well. So do the demons believe and shudder [in terror and horror such as [a]make a man's hair stand on end and contract the surface of his skin]!

20Are you willing to be shown [proof], you foolish (unproductive, spiritually deficient) fellow, that faith apart from [good] works is inactive and ineffective and worthless?

21Was not our forefather Abraham [shown to be] justified (made acceptable to God) by [his] works when he brought to the altar as an offering his [own] son Isaac?(C)

22You see that [his] faith was cooperating with his works, and [his] faith was completed and reached its supreme expression [when he implemented it] by [good] works.

23And [so] the Scripture was fulfilled that says, Abraham believed in (adhered to, trusted in, and relied on) God, and this was accounted to him as righteousness (as conformity to God's will in thought and deed), and he was called God's friend.(D)

24You see that a man is justified (pronounced righteous before God) through what he does and not alone through faith [through works of obedience as well as by what he believes].

25So also with Rahab the harlot--was she not shown to be justified (pronounced righteous before God) by [good] deeds when she took in the scouts (spies) and sent them away by a different route?(E)

26For as the human body apart from the spirit is lifeless, so faith apart from [its] works of obedience is also dead.
...
emmm I'm not sure what else after this.

sonofthunder:
What is the use (profit), my brethren, for anyone to profess to have faith if he has no [good] works [to show for it]? Can [such] faith save [his soul]?

15If a brother or sister is poorly clad and lacks food for each day,

16And one of you says to him, Good-bye! Keep [yourself] warm and well fed, without giving him the necessities for the body, what good does that do?

17So also faith, if it does not have works (deeds and actions of obedience to back it up), by itself is destitute of power (inoperative, dead).

18But someone will say [to you then], You [say you] have faith, and I have [good] works. Now you show me your [alleged] faith apart from any [good] works [if you can], and I by [good] works [of obedience] will show you my faith.

19You believe that God is one; you do well. So do the demons believe and shudder [in terror and horror such as [a]make a man's hair stand on end and contract the surface of his skin]!

20Are you willing to be shown [proof], you foolish (unproductive, spiritually deficient) fellow, that faith apart from [good] works is inactive and ineffective and worthless?

21Was not our forefather Abraham [shown to be] justified (made acceptable to God) by [his] works when he brought to the altar as an offering his [own] son Isaac?(C)

22You see that [his] faith was cooperating with his works, and [his] faith was completed and reached its supreme expression [when he implemented it] by [good] works.

23And [so] the Scripture was fulfilled that says, Abraham believed in (adhered to, trusted in, and relied on) God, and this was accounted to him as righteousness (as conformity to God's will in thought and deed), and he was called God's friend.(D)

24You see that a man is justified (pronounced righteous before God) through what he does and not alone through faith [through works of obedience as well as by what he believes].

25So also with Rahab the harlot--was she not shown to be justified (pronounced righteous before God) by [good] deeds when she took in the scouts (spies) and sent them away by a different route?(E)

26For as the human body apart from the spirit is lifeless, so faith apart from [its] works of obedience is also dead.
...
emmm I'm not sure what else after this.

Faith without work is dead

Lolz is salvation really by faith or works

petra1:


Faith without work is dead

yes sir, many people like to 'spiritualise' many simple/basic doctrines in order to twist it to fit into their selfish desires.

Ferisidowu:
Lolz is salvation really by faith or works

what do you say sir?

sonofthunder:
what do you say sir?

am I justified because I have or exercise faith

I really thought we were done with this thread... I think 'freshers' should be encouraged to read from the first page.

Ferisidowu:
am I justified because I have or exercise faith

and what do we profit when we have but never exercise faith?
please scroll up a bit and read through the Bible verses I posted.

sonofthunder:

and what do we profit when we have but never exercise faith?

you don't seem ready to answer me

sonofthunder:

and what do we profit when we have but never exercise faith?
please scroll up a bit and read through the Bible verses I posted.

faith and works aren't divisible are they?

Ferisidowu:
you don't seem ready to answer me

I just modified
.

sonofthunder:
I just modified .

ok

Ferisidowu:
faith and works aren't divisible are they?

our works show forth the practical evidence of our faith, it is one thing that separate the true children of God from hypocrites.

sonofthunder:

our works show forth the practical evidence of our faith, it is one thing that separate the true children of God from hypocrites.

is justification by faith or works?

Ferisidowu:
is justification by faith or works?

if I tell you the evidence for faith is works, what does that tell you sir?

sonofthunder:

if I tell you the evidence for faith is works, what does that tell you sir?

young man are you afraid to talk plainly

Ferisidowu:
young man are you afraid to talk plainly

with the amount of time I spend here (among other factors), you can say yes.

sonofthunder:

if I tell you the evidence for faith is works, what does that tell you sir?

There are works of faith. they are outworking of faith