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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Logical Understanding Of Trinity (elohim) - Establishing The Doctrine Of Godhead (8532 Views)
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Re: Logical Understanding Of Trinity (elohim) - Establishing The Doctrine Of Godhead by sonofthunder: 7:18am On Dec 10, 2016 |
Seun:really? Do yo care to explain how the OP isn't making any sense? |
Re: Logical Understanding Of Trinity (elohim) - Establishing The Doctrine Of Godhead by sonofthunder: 7:20am On Dec 10, 2016 |
KingEbukaNaija:do you care to buttress more on this... and please quote me when you do. |
Re: Logical Understanding Of Trinity (elohim) - Establishing The Doctrine Of Godhead by Barristter07: 8:19am On Dec 10, 2016 |
Seun: Exactly, doesnt make any sense |
Re: Logical Understanding Of Trinity (elohim) - Establishing The Doctrine Of Godhead by Barristter07: 8:27am On Dec 10, 2016 |
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Re: Logical Understanding Of Trinity (elohim) - Establishing The Doctrine Of Godhead by Barristter07: 8:28am On Dec 10, 2016 |
Richirich713: the Jews during the days of Moses and Aaron are monotheist, please how many persons do they worship ? |
Re: Logical Understanding Of Trinity (elohim) - Establishing The Doctrine Of Godhead by Richirich713: 9:11am On Dec 10, 2016 |
Barristter07: Why mention me then ignore everything I said in my post? "We can get to wat the bible teaches later, first show me how the basic trinitarian position that there is one God and God is three co-existing eternal persons is not monotheism (the doctrine or belief that there is one being who is God)." But I'll answer ur question anyway, the ancient jews worshiped and believed in one God, but they understood that there was a some kind of plurality in this one God, as is evident from the old testament and some other ancient jews writings. We can even see in the old testament how God manifests himself in three. U can see more of this here : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-aVQ8MELeg And here : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNt5NKSse0Y |
Re: Logical Understanding Of Trinity (elohim) - Establishing The Doctrine Of Godhead by DeepSight(m): 9:17am On Dec 10, 2016 |
Richirich713: There three gods referred to within the Trinity and then there is the claim that these three are all one God. It is a meaningless claim, as many worldviews have the idea of all things being "one" anyway. Thus the idea that Father, Son and Holy Ghost are one God does not lead to monotheism: especially when they are described with different personalities and manifestly different roles and attributes. That is nothing but a clear case of several gods. Christianity is both pagan (as it believes in human sacrifice) and polytheistic. 4 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Logical Understanding Of Trinity (elohim) - Establishing The Doctrine Of Godhead by Barristter07: 9:20am On Dec 10, 2016 |
Richirich713 Richirich713: I replied based on your stance that " first show me how the basic trinitarian position that there is one God and God is three co-existing eternal persons is not monotheism" to show this, we need to examine what the Jews like Moses and Aaron believed because they claimed to be monotheists. Are hebrews like Moses , Kind David or Aaron Trinitarians and how many persons do they worship ? |
Re: Logical Understanding Of Trinity (elohim) - Establishing The Doctrine Of Godhead by shadeyinka(m): 9:21am On Dec 10, 2016 |
Barristter07: Haven't I given the explanation? The OP is making perfect sense: 1. Base ten Arithmetic: 1+1+1=3 2. Base two Arithmetic: 1+1+1=11 3. Logical or Boolean Arithmetic: 1+1+1=1 Although, for me Trinity is best understood from the Physics point of view and not mathematics. In Physics, we have Wave:Particle duality of matter Or Mass:Energy equivalence In simple terms, Mass and Energy are different forms of the same thing. Yet both are distinctively different in nature Energy and Mass are different forms of the same thing. Yet both are distinctively different in nature Its like the more you look, the more confounded you are. Example: an electron is both a wave and a particle but a wave is distinctively different from a particle. |
Re: Logical Understanding Of Trinity (elohim) - Establishing The Doctrine Of Godhead by Richirich713: 9:23am On Dec 10, 2016 |
DeepSight: U making up ur own definitions, first u defined monotheism as unitarianism , now u defining the trinity as the claim that three gods are one God. 1 Like |
Re: Logical Understanding Of Trinity (elohim) - Establishing The Doctrine Of Godhead by Barristter07: 9:23am On Dec 10, 2016 |
DeepSight: Deepsight, One God indeed but the question is why didnt the Father and holy spirit also die when the son died for three days , arent they one being ? |
Re: Logical Understanding Of Trinity (elohim) - Establishing The Doctrine Of Godhead by Richirich713: 9:25am On Dec 10, 2016 |
Barristter07: Define monotheism. |
Re: Logical Understanding Of Trinity (elohim) - Establishing The Doctrine Of Godhead by Richirich713: 9:28am On Dec 10, 2016 |
Barristter07: Only the second person of the trinity became human, this is basic stuff. 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Logical Understanding Of Trinity (elohim) - Establishing The Doctrine Of Godhead by Barristter07: 9:29am On Dec 10, 2016 |
Richirich713:The doctrine or belief that there is ONLY one God . |
Re: Logical Understanding Of Trinity (elohim) - Establishing The Doctrine Of Godhead by Richirich713: 9:32am On Dec 10, 2016 |
Barristter07: That's exactly what the trinity says. That there is one God 1 Like |
Re: Logical Understanding Of Trinity (elohim) - Establishing The Doctrine Of Godhead by Barristter07: 9:35am On Dec 10, 2016 |
Richirich713: one died But the other is still Alive . that means the Father and son are two different beings . Two beings not one being |
Re: Logical Understanding Of Trinity (elohim) - Establishing The Doctrine Of Godhead by Barristter07: 9:39am On Dec 10, 2016 |
Richirich713: hehehehehe . see this 419 ONLY one God . monotheism how does people like Moses who speak with God and King David view God , how many persons do they worship or are they trinitarians ? |
Re: Logical Understanding Of Trinity (elohim) - Establishing The Doctrine Of Godhead by Richirich713: 9:42am On Dec 10, 2016 |
Barristter07: One died a human death becuz he took upon a human nature, he didn't cease to exist as u seem to be implying. 1 Like |
Re: Logical Understanding Of Trinity (elohim) - Establishing The Doctrine Of Godhead by Richirich713: 9:50am On Dec 10, 2016 |
Barristter07: Lol, okay u tell me what the trinity claims, key word being claims, u might say what they claim is impossible but you'll see what they are teaching is monotheism. Who was moses speaking at the burning bush nd why did he call him the god of Abraham and isaac? |
Re: Logical Understanding Of Trinity (elohim) - Establishing The Doctrine Of Godhead by Barristter07: 9:53am On Dec 10, 2016 |
Richirich713: its either you are alive or dead , tell me something new , was he alive or dead during the three days ? if he isnt alive , and the other is alive . they are two beings not one . get that straight ved [/i] 2 Likes |
Re: Logical Understanding Of Trinity (elohim) - Establishing The Doctrine Of Godhead by Richirich713: 9:58am On Dec 10, 2016 |
Barristter07: Explain to what u mean when u say the father is alive? I take that to mean u saying he still existed, right? So what I'm saying is Jesus still existed after he died, as a matter of fact he existed before he was born, his human death didn't mean he ceased to exist. The word of God became flesh, that word has and will always exist. 1 Like |
Re: Logical Understanding Of Trinity (elohim) - Establishing The Doctrine Of Godhead by Barristter07: 10:02am On Dec 10, 2016 |
Richirich713: stop being dubious, its not monotheism but polytheism. Father is Almighty God = 1 Son is Almighty God = 2 Holy spirit is Almighty God =3 three different Gods . for more, God the Father is DIFFERENT from God the Son, and God the Son is DIFFERENT from God the Holy spirit . separate Gods .
Yahweh , the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob speak to Moses through his Angel |
Re: Logical Understanding Of Trinity (elohim) - Establishing The Doctrine Of Godhead by KingEbukasBlog(m): 10:05am On Dec 10, 2016 |
Barristter07: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQkFlzFJ3kA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvj87QCF0lg If this animated video can't help , I'm not sure anything else can help well of course except God helps you understand . 2 Likes 2 Shares |
Re: Logical Understanding Of Trinity (elohim) - Establishing The Doctrine Of Godhead by Barristter07: 10:06am On Dec 10, 2016 |
Richirich713: You mean Jesus is still alive even while dead , what an OXYMORON , that isnt just a lie but rubbish his ressurection |
Re: Logical Understanding Of Trinity (elohim) - Establishing The Doctrine Of Godhead by Nobody: 10:41am On Dec 10, 2016 |
Barristter07: Pause....take a deep breathe and repeat after me I Barrister07 am confused! X 10 times Your head knowledge says you are right because you have no spiritual knowledge. All you need to understand has already been explained to you in writing and via videos. Do i now present you further explanation via Braille or sign Language if those 2 have failed? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLyGzsgK6c0 3 Likes 3 Shares |
Re: Logical Understanding Of Trinity (elohim) - Establishing The Doctrine Of Godhead by Richirich713: 11:41am On Dec 10, 2016 |
Barristter07: It is better to say that the trinity teaches monotheism (since it claims only one God), but u don't considered it monotheism because u think it is I'm impossible for God to be three co-existing persons. Just because it's impossible for humans to exist like this, doesn't mean it's impossible for God. Barristter07: The "is" is an "is of predication" not identity. In other words saying Jesus is God, means he is divine, it doesn't mean he is the whole of God as if he is the trinity. Jesus is identified as the second person of the trinity not the second God, u should be adding up three persons not three Gods. Barristter07: That's because they different persons. This again is basic stuff. Jesus isn't the father nor is he the spirit, he's the word OF God not the spirit OF God. Barristter07: Saying that God only spoke thru this messenger seems inconsistent with what the text says : "Now Moses was tending the flock of Jethro his father-in-law, the priest of Midian, and he led the flock to the far side of the desert and came to Horeb, the mountain of God. There the angel of the LORD appeared to him in flames of fire from within a bush. Moses saw that though the bush was on fire it did not burn up. So Moses thought, ‘I will go over and see this strange sight—why the bush does not burn up.’ When the LORD saw that he had gone over to look, God called to him from within the bush, ‘Moses! Moses!’ And Moses said, ‘Here I am.’ ‘Do not come any closer,’ God said. ‘Take off your sandals, for the place where you are standing is holy ground.’ Then he said, ‘I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob.’ At this, Moses hid his face, because he was afraid to look at God.’"Exodus 3:1-6 And : “Go, assemble the leaders of Israel. Say to them, ‘The Lord God of your ancestors, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, appeared to me." Exodus 3:16 Moreover this isn't the only place in the old testament where this messenger is called God by monotheistic jews, there's tons of places in the old testament where one can show that God is not just one person. 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Logical Understanding Of Trinity (elohim) - Establishing The Doctrine Of Godhead by Richirich713: 11:57am On Dec 10, 2016 |
Barristter07: u think that I meant Jesus was still alive after he died? , the post u just quoted said exactly what I meant and no wer did I say anything like that: Richirich713: I said Jesus still existed after he died, he even existed before he was born. Do u think humans cease to exist after they die? 2 Likes 2 Shares |
Re: Logical Understanding Of Trinity (elohim) - Establishing The Doctrine Of Godhead by Edenoscar(m): 12:21pm On Dec 10, 2016 |
4everGod: Excerps from the athanesian creed The Father uncreated; the Son uncreated; and the Holy Ghost uncreated. The Father unlimited; the Son unlimited; and the Holy Ghost unlimited. The Father eternal; the Son eternal; and the Holy Ghost eternal. And yet they are not three eternals; but one eternal. As also there are not three uncreated; nor three infinites, but one uncreated; and one infinite. So likewise the Father is Almighty; the Son Almighty; and the Holy Ghost Almighty. And yet they are not three Almighties; but one Almighty. So the Father is God; the Son is God; and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not three Gods; but one God Except you dont believe in the athanesian creed, how does this make any sense cc: kingebukasblog Richirich713 |
Re: Logical Understanding Of Trinity (elohim) - Establishing The Doctrine Of Godhead by KingEbukasBlog(m): 12:23pm On Dec 10, 2016 |
Edenoscar: They are simply saying that the Godhead are of one substance , essence and nature that makes the three One . 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Logical Understanding Of Trinity (elohim) - Establishing The Doctrine Of Godhead by Barristter07: 12:26pm On Dec 10, 2016 |
Richirich713 Richirich713: How does trinity teach ONLY one God ? God is said to have a throne in heaven, am wondering if its three people sitting on that throne or a single person. its funny you are advising me to add up persons and not God. an insult to rational thinking Jesus is also the son OF God , which God ? himself ?
Is this what Trinity does to people's understanding , Bad! when someone cant recognize that a messenger speaks on behalf of the one who sent him. Clap for yourself, you know scripture . The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is an Angel , right ? |
Re: Logical Understanding Of Trinity (elohim) - Establishing The Doctrine Of Godhead by Barristter07: 12:30pm On Dec 10, 2016 |
Richirich713: state of consciousness is the issue here , either he is DEAD or ALIVE ! Was he dead or Alive during the three days ? |
Re: Logical Understanding Of Trinity (elohim) - Establishing The Doctrine Of Godhead by Edenoscar(m): 12:36pm On Dec 10, 2016 |
KingEbukasBlog: simply put, the logic of the trinity defies common sense |
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