JackBizzle:


cc sapiosexuality
joshthefirst

Anyone can make up an OFFENSIVE list of contorted mixes of ignorance and foolish labelling against practices or beliefs and tag any religious or irreligious group to that particular list.

Doesn't make it right.

You blame religion and Christianity for our problems, I blame ignorance and abandonment of truth.

I can't think of how to address you and your cohorts, because you are a combination of several levels of wrong thinking and ideology and will need patient and intensive intellectual and logical discussions of reason to at least realize the wrongness of your worldview, even if you choose to remain in it.

Try and look at history at least, at the birth of the scientific age, and see that the men who founded the scientific method were men of faith. Look and see that any ideology of ignorance and persecution of any people for their beliefs will always result in darkness and oppression. The Marxist nation's forced atheism on their people(at least they had guts enough to use force) and the result was violence and oppression.

What angers me the most is the way you rationalize murder and try to justify murdering of unborn humans in the womb. I'm disgusted at the way your foolish worldviews have caused you to devalue human life and justify taking it for selfish reasons as right and good.

Is it better to save a child from the dumpster or to remove the broken remains of a developing human and throw it into the bin?

This is what the ideology of the atheistic cage breeds. Murderers, who try to rationalize their taking of life. Deceivers who themselves are deceived. Nigeria and Africa doesn't need people who think that assaulting faith will solve their problems. We need educators and men of good moral and people to empower us. Not ignorant belly rubbers who will take away hope and leave us helpless.

Spirituality is indeed therapeutic that's why there is a growing number of people who meditate, however, they leave out all the bogus stories of Adam, Eve, Moses and Mohammed. Besides, the form of christianity common in Nigeria is the love child of superstition and ignorance. No reasonable human being would look at pentecostals in Nigeria and call them spiritual Who would even read the New Testament and continue adherence to Nigerian pentecostalism?

The irony is that early church fathers were men of high intellect and christian literature has quite interesting arguments, of course with gory history.

Faith healing? I would believe when there is accurate faith diagnosis before the healing that way the 'futility' of education and medicine would be illuminated by the power of god.

People should be pushing for better healthcare not more faith in nonsense. The president is a very religious man but he is in London getting treatment. Deizani, also very religious, is still alive in London getting treatment. Let me add they are being treated by Sikhs, Hindus and atheists and of course they don't object but they come back and build more churches and religious centres and do massive thanksgivings. Aren't black people retarded? Just so you know, the previous ghanian president died in a military hospital in his country. These are indicators of how optimal the education and health systems are in a country.

You, or anyone else can continue being religious, but I'd only advise that you use religious lingo to explain nothing other than your spirituality because anything other than that is false and only exposes one's ignorance.

Sapiosexuality:
Is there any part of the Christian faith that discourage medications? And do you really think anything is wrong with Faith healing? Isn't spirituality(I'm not talking about religion here) therapeutic? And isn't faith Spiritual? How then is it a wrong method of healing?

Doctors are not scientists and there are many of them like that and it only supports my assertion of training education as opposed to the kind that inspires research and has brought about all the modernities present today.

Also, i think quite a number of medical practitioners would relate to 'spiritual healing' of some of their patients albeit rare, however, it does not make christian theology or islamic teaching true. They are far too inefficient to be relied upon. God is too inefficient in his/her/its healing to be taken seriously, not even worth anyone's time if we analyse such beneficial unexplained occurences statistically.

The mixture has a significant potential of being toxic and harmful.

JackBizzle:



How can a doctor not believe in Evolution? How can a doctor believe in spiritual healing?


This is what happens when you mix a heavy dose of religion with poor education

tosyne2much:
This is nothing nothing but the truth. Permit me to elaborate more on how religion has ruined this Africa

Christianity in Africa, especially Nigerian lacks several attributes that has kept us stagnant and backward. These attributes we lack are

Exposure, logic, facts, evidence, science, common sense, proof, reasoning, probability, thinking, intelligence, feasibility, confirmation, wisdom, likelihood, knowledge, rationality, realism, plausibility, intellect, open mindedness, analysis, induction, deduction, logistics, brainpower, coherence , saneness, consistency, congruity, enlightenment, sensibility, legitimacy, authenticity, predictability, believability, and foresight.

Religion has kept us back and stagnant in Africa and our over-spirituality as regards religion don't want science to advance any further, finding more evidence for evolution or perhaps the non-deistic mechanism of the universe’s creation. However, it doesn’t want people to become more knowledgeable about the origins and evolution and to unravel mystery.

In fact, it doesn’t want school children to be taught critical thinking skills but their thinking should only be within religion sentiments or superstition, hence, causing us to be unproductive

You can see that those who are able to think outside religion are the movers of yhe earth. They are people that have made landmarks across the world

May God help us in this part of the world

tell that to Albert Einstein

spartan117:
tell that to Albert Einstein

Am I on track?

JackBizzle:


Faith healing is the issue here.

Go and heal malaria spiritually now.

If only you know your science enough.

TheEminentLaity:
Spirituality is indeed therapeutic that's why there is a growing number of people who meditate, however, they leave out all the bogus stories of Adam, Eve, Moses and Mohammed. Besides, the form of christianity common in Nigeria is the love child of superstition and ignorance. No reasonable human being would look at pentecostals in Nigeria and call them spiritual Who would even read the New Testament and continue adherence to Nigerian pentecostalism?

The irony is that early church fathers were men of high intellect and christian literature has quite interesting arguments, of course with gory history.

Faith healing? I would believe when there is accurate faith diagnosis before the healing that way the 'futility' of education and medicine would be illuminated by the power of god.

People should be pushing for better healthcare not more faith in nonsense. The president is a very religious man but he is in London getting treatment. Deizani, also very religious, is still alive in London getting treatment. Let me add they are being treated by Sikhs, Hindus and atheists and of course they don't object but they come back and build more churches and religious centres and do massive thanksgivings. Aren't black people retarded? Just so you know, the previous ghanian president died in a military hospital in his country. These are indicators of how optimal the education and health systems are in a country.

You, or anyone else can continue being religious, but I'd only advise that you use religious lingo to explain nothing other than your spirituality because anything other than that is false and only exposes one's ignorance.

Okay. Every advancement of modern medicine and science were by people who are religious. Religious people are not as stupid as you think.

Sapiosexuality:
Okay. Every advancement of modern medicine and science were by people who are religious. Religious people are not as stupid as you think.

How did you arrive at that? Advancement in medicine and science are a composite of individual contributions within research groups, even today individuals are contributing to the body of knowledge in the sciences. I agree many religious people are not stupid, however, Nigerian pentecostalism - a flourishing descendant of the American evangelical and pentecostal groups - is a pantheon of many of the most ignorant and deluded set of people. Within those circles ignorance is glorified, stupidity is encouraged and irrationality is coined as faith and this is nauseating. Nobody really complains about the more conservative orthodox faiths which has all the good history or the non-invasive moderate islam but most if not all the backlash on christianity and its detrimental effects on Nigerians is always focused on pentecostalism and the likes.

Pentecostal apologetics typically use christian scholars, to promote their cause but even the distinguished scholars of christianity from Augustine, Athanasius, Origen to Luther, Zwingli and Calvin would consider all pentecostals heretics, a perversion of their doctrine of god, and you should know what the fate of heretics was. Check Arius and Nestorius. So when some people talk about old scientists believing in god, you should ask which one because even within christianity there are many gods, which one is yours?

Scientists may have been religious 500 years ago but they didn't have the internet, they didn't know that DNA fingerprinting proved Darwin right and it is extremely ignorant to argue with evolution especially using god and creation as the alternative explanation. They never explored space, they did not have evidence of fossils that show that Humans existed at least a 100,000 years ago. That the earth is about 4 billion years ago and the world was indeed not created in 6 days. Christianity and Islam are relatively young religions of about 2000 years ago so what happened to the other humans 92,000 years ago? God didn't reveal himself to them or they didn't look like him then? what of us black people? did the all knowing Jesus not see anything wrong with slavery and in fact we came to know he died for us to save us through colonialism and slavery. Ask yourself if it is really sensible to believe all this crap when with google and your smartphone you can look for all the answers about your reality and history and the world? then one idiot would tell you that god likes this and that and that you rob him. How did they know god is a man?

There are still many erudite scientists today that believe somehow in christianity but I would place my last penny that none active in research would subscribe to the nonsense version of christianity common in Nigeria.

Joshthefirst:
Anyone can make up an OFFENSIVE list of contorted mixes of ignorance and foolish labelling against practices or beliefs and tag any religious or irreligious group to that particular list.

Doesn't make it right.

You blame religion and Christianity for our problems, I blame ignorance and abandonment of truth.

Let's define ignorance as holding unsubstantiated beliefs and beliefs that cannot be proven true or false. Then truth as an objective fact that is testable and reproducible. That said, how does religion and christianity fit these definitions?

I can't think of how to address you and your cohorts, because you are a combination of several levels of wrong thinking and ideology and will need patient and intensive intellectual and logical discussions of reason to at least realize the wrongness of your worldview, even if you choose to remain in it. Try and look at history at least, at the birth of the scientific age, and see that the men who founded the scientific method were men of faith. Look and see that any ideology of ignorance and persecution of any people for their beliefs will always result in darkness and oppression. The Marxist nation's forced atheism on their people(at least they had guts enough to use force) and the result was violence and oppression.

It is only persecution when it is not christianity or religion is doing the oppression. The Spanish inquisition, the crusades, the reformation clashes and the muslim conquest of the Ottoman empire were not persecution on others. Christianity moved from victims of persecution to oppressors as soon as Constantine adopted christianity and sort to unite the Roman empire with a state religion. That by the way, men who founded the scientific method may have had beliefs of some sort but the scientific method was not found because of beliefs the individuals had. The oppressors in Nigeria are all religious folks. Very spiritual but highly intolerant and wicked. Today, nobody is forcing anyone to become atheists rather people are only exposing the unfounded and bogus beliefs that has held a large number of people captive. Beliefs that an increasing large number of progressive people are leaving behind because not only are they untrue but are the most divisive institutions present today.

What angers me the most is the way you rationalize murder and try to justify murdering of unborn humans in the womb. I'm disgusted at the way your foolish worldviews have caused you to devalue human life and justify taking it for selfish reasons as right and good.

Is it better to save a child from the dumpster or throw remove the broken remains of a developing human and throw it into the bin?

This is what the ideology of the atheistic cage breeds. Murderers, who try to rationalize their taking of life. Deceivers who themselves are deceived. Nigeria and Africa doesn't need people who think that assaulting faith will solve their problems. We need educators and men of good moral and people to empower us. Not ignorant belly rubbers who will take away hope and leave us helpless.

I am also repulsed by the thought of forcefully removing a developing foetus but I rather leave the moral dilemma for the mother, the father and the doctor or quack. I personally think it is irresponsible for anyone to get pregnant and always choose to go for serial abortions. However, some medical conditions and situations may require one and it would be very wicked to deny anyone the right to have an abortion.

Joshthefirst:
Anyone can make up an OFFENSIVE list of contorted mixes of ignorance and foolish labelling against practices or beliefs and tag any religious or irreligious group to that particular list.

Doesn't make it right.

You blame religion and Christianity for our problems, I blame ignorance and abandonment of truth.

Christianity carries its own ignorance too!

You sir, have been brainwashed to only see the good in christianity. Just go to the front page of nairaland and everyday, we see fraudulent pastors and end-time churches.

Bro, lets be honest, if a Nigerian walked up to you on the road and said that he is pastor, would your internal alarm bells not be ringing? It is so bad that "pastor" is now synonymous with "fraudster".

Aside from that, there are problems with the christian doctrine. Are you not worried that there are so many conflicting doctrines? Each church denomination has its own version of what is "Godly". Some dont drink alcohol, some worship on saturday, some dont wear earrings, some don't fraternize with other church members, some dont celebrate birthdays, some take holy communion, some have their own bible versions etc.


Your religion also promotes ignorance. This is a fact that cannot be denied. Many church members are slaves to their pastors. Not only that, the bible praises "believing without seeing"- that is the basis of faith.

Joshthefirst:

I can't think of how to address you and your cohorts, because you are a combination of several levels of wrong thinking and ideology and will need patient and intensive intellectual and logical discussions of reason to at least realize the wrongness of your worldview, even if you choose to remain in it.

What do you mean by this? I knew you when you were Chibubuem. You were very ignorant of global politics and history. You barely understood logic. To prove this, I will point out your ignorance by decimating your next point below-

Joshthefirst:

Try and look at history at least, at the birth of the scientific age, and see that the men who founded the scientific method were men of faith. Look and see that any ideology of ignorance and persecution of any people for their beliefs will always result in darkness and oppression. The Marxist nation's forced atheism on their people(at least they had guts enough to use force) and the result was violence and oppression.

There are three problems that come up when you talk about the early scientists being men of faith.

1) There was punishment for blasphemy in the olden days and so, many scientists would not exactly come out as atheists or unbelievers. In fact, the further you go backwards in history, the less you see of atheists and unbelievers.

2) Which faith are you talking about? Men of different religions and beliefs contributed to science in the past. Einstein was a deist. There was the islamic golden age where muslims were at the forefront of science. The Greeks and the Egyptians too had their own religions. The last time I checked, you are neither a muslim or a pagan.

3) Science is a faithless endeavor that does not require belief or religion. Science is simply observation and testing to learn and make conclusions. Having faith in a god or religion makes no difference to scientific discovery. Science does not deal with the spiritual.

Joshthefirst:

What angers me the most is the way you rationalize murder and try to justify murdering of unborn humans in the womb. I'm disgusted at the way your foolish worldviews have caused you to devalue human life and justify taking it for selfish reasons as right and good.

I, like many other humanists, am pro-choice and not pro-abortion. We are not saying that abortion is the best option na dshould be done whenever someone doesnt want a child. We are saying that the option should be on the table when other options like adoption are not feasible.

Pro-choice and pro-abortion are not the same thing. But then, you are ignorant, even as a doctor, on abortion. May I never be your patient.

Joshthefirst:

Is it better to save a child from the dumpster or to remove the broken remains of a developing human and throw it into the bin?

This is what the ideology of the atheistic cage breeds. Murderers, who try to rationalize their taking of life. Deceivers who themselves are deceived. Nigeria and Africa doesn't need people who think that assaulting faith will solve their problems. We need educators and men of good moral and people to empower us. Not ignorant belly rubbers who will take away hope and leave us helpless.

Pro-choice and not pro-abortion. Go and read.

Sapiosexuality:
If only you know your science enough.

Faith healing na scam

Great thread

Felixomor, did you read the op?

Great thread. I wonder where Joshthefirst is.

JackBizzle:

1) Religion
As long as black people follow foreign religions that have been used to enslave them in the past, we will always be mental slaves. Like it or not islam ultimately benefits the Arabs and Christianity the whites. GO to Jerusalem and see how black pilgrims are treated. Go to Mecca and see the difference between African pilgrims and Arab ones.

We are one of the most homophobic, sexist and ignorant races as a result of religion.

2) Survivalist mentality.
Just because you are alive doesn't mean that you are living. Poverty makes you focus on surviving and not living. You care about your next food or salary instead of taking time to look At art or do some philosophy on nature. You focus on yourself rather than the bigger picture of the community. You become so materialistic rather than perceptive. When a black man hammers, it is to pop champagne in the club, while the typical white man eats out with family and friends.


3) ignorance of our history (as a result of colonization)
If you knew that most powerful Christian churches and Muslims in the early centuries were supporters of slavery of Africans, would you be a Christian?

If you knew that your prophet regarded blacks as inferior would you follow him?

If you knew that your tribe or culture is older than Jews, Arabs or Judaism, would you claim to be descendants of Jews and Arabs?

If you knew that your tribes had inventions like sculpting techniques with bronze, hunting weapons, pottery etc, would you say that only the white and asian men could invent?


Cc tingtingz, vedaxcool, Hahn, hopefullandlord, jonbellion, deepsight, lepasharon, scepticalpyhrro, decide, tosyne2much, naptu2, joshthefirst, demmzy15, onyenze123, galaman, theeminentlaity

Empiree, how far?

It is only religion that can make an African man eat live uncooked snake like "Madagascan Mongoose" in the Mozambican mangrove swamps!!!!!!

JackBizzle:

1) Religion
As long as black people follow foreign religions that have been used to enslave them in the past, we will always be mental slaves. Like it or not islam ultimately benefits the Arabs and Christianity the whites. GO to Jerusalem and see how black pilgrims are treated. Go to Mecca and see the difference between African pilgrims and Arab ones.

We are one of the most homophobic, sexist and ignorant races as a result of religion.

2) Survivalist mentality.
Just because you are alive doesn't mean that you are living. Poverty makes you focus on surviving and not living. You care about your next food or salary instead of taking time to look At art or do some philosophy on nature. You focus on yourself rather than the bigger picture of the community. You become so materialistic rather than perceptive. When a black man hammers, it is to pop champagne in the club, while the typical white man eats out with family and friends.


3) ignorance of our history (as a result of colonization)
If you knew that most powerful Christian churches and Muslims in the early centuries were supporters of slavery of Africans, would you be a Christian?

If you knew that your prophet regarded blacks as inferior would you follow him?

If you knew that your tribe or culture is older than Jews, Arabs or Judaism, would you claim to be descendants of Jews and Arabs?

If you knew that your tribes had inventions like sculpting techniques with bronze, hunting weapons, pottery etc, would you say that only the white and asian men could invent?


Cc tingtingz, vedaxcool, Hahn, hopefullandlord, jonbellion, deepsight, lepasharon, scepticalpyhrro, decide, tosyne2much, naptu2, joshthefirst, demmzy15, onyenze123, galaman, theeminentlaity

I agree with your three things as topics making Nigeria backward, but disagree with your content. We don't practice good religion, we struggle with fear and survival, and we have the worst modern history as a people on earth. But there is hope. God is currently my only hope.

halalMACburger:
Great thread. I wonder where Joshthefirst is.

Mars man?

Joshthefirst:


I agree with your three things as topics making Nigeria backward, but disagree with your content. We don't practice good religion, we struggle with fear and survival, and we have the worst modern history as a people on earth. But there is hope. God is currently my only hope.

Lol.....God is very good at failing his people. The bible says that Israelites were in slavery for 400 years. The same Jews suffered a holocaust.

God is not hope. God will fail you, according to his record. No wonder Nigeria has been failing since the 90s

Joshthefirst:
Mars man?

Logic man

JeromeBlack:



Lol.....God is very good at failing his people. The bible says that Israelites were in slavery for 400 years.

And were delivered mightily by God from Egypt. How is that failing?

The same Jews suffered a holocaust.

And became a nation after that, fulfilling biblical prophecy. Today they are economically prosperous and have the power to defend themselves. How is that failing?

God is not hope. God will fail you, according to his record. No wonder Nigeria has been failing since the 90s

God is the only hope in our reality. Even if Nigeria slumps into total disaster, I have hope of heaven. What is your hope as an atheist? Who are you to even speak of hope? What is the point of your existence? Where is the purpose and hope for the future and life in atheism?

Joshthefirst:


I agree with your three things as topics making Nigeria backward, but disagree with your content. We don't practice good religion, we struggle with fear and survival, and we have the worst modern history as a people on earth. But there is hope. God is currently my only hope.

What has God done to help Nigeria since independence?

So far things have only been getting worse?

How can you rely on what is obviously a collosal failure?

1)Thinking and reasoning like elated177
2)Thinking and reasoning like olaadegbu
3) Thinking and reasoning like kingebukasblog

hahn:


What has God done to help Nigeria since independence?

So far things have only been getting worse?

How can you rely on what is obviously a collosal failure?

Nigeria is in a terrible state, and there are many factors involved, but God doesn’t promise anything special or specific about Nigeria, what he definitely promises is a new heavenly nation where there’s no corruption or injustice, and I’m happy to be a citizen of that country through faith in Christ. Nigeria may get better, Nigeria may get worse, I continue to trust God and look for a new heaven and a new earth filled with righteousness and justice.

The problem with Nigeria and the world at large is the heart of men. Corruption and wickedness stem from the heart, and the only true and permanent fix is a change in man’s very nature.

Joshthefirst:
Nigeria is in a terrible state, and there are many factors involved, but God doesn’t promise anything special or specific about Nigeria, what he definitely promises is a new heavenly nation where there’s no corruption or injustice, and I’m happy to be a citizen of that country through faith in Christ. Nigeria may get better, Nigeria may get worse, I continue to trust God and look for a new heaven and a new earth filled with righteousness and justice.

The problem with Nigeria and the world at large is the heart of men. Corruption and wickedness stem from the heart, and the only true and permanent fix is a change in man’s very nature.

God has not done anything to solve the situation since 1960.

I don't think trusting in it is a wise decision because it either doesn't give a fvck or has more important things to do.

Like touching Buhari's heart to release terrorists back into the society

Joshthefirst:
Mars man?

Where are you, Josh?

whitelotus:



Where are you, Josh?

I’m still here. Mars man?

Joshthefirst:
I’m still here. Mars man?

I am not amanfrommars. He goes by muskeeto aka happypagan

I am his right hand man

Joshthefirst:
And were delivered mightily by God from Egypt. How is that failing?

I may be wrong. But did he not put them there in the first place. An omniscient God. He knew and he purposely sent them to their doom. I recon the people and babies that died in Egypt are not feeling happy that he later took the rest of them out of Egypt. Im willing to bet at the time of death they cursed their lives.

Joshthefirst:

And became a nation after that, fulfilling biblical prophecy. Today they are economically prosperous and have the power to defend themselves. How is that failing?

Again the ones that dies horribly before are not feeling so lucky or blessed. Its easier to speak for the new gen. But what of the ones that went through hell?

Joshthefirst:

God is the only hope in our reality. Even if Nigeria slumps into total disaster, I have hope of heaven. What is your hope as an atheist? Who are you to even speak of hope? What is the point of your existence? Where is the purpose and hope for the future and life in atheism?

If I live in a society I will pray to my god. Who is my god? The people i dwell with. My people are my god. The children are my god. And i will pray to my god everyday that s/he joins me hand in hand that we may elevate our society/country to greater heights. So that I can protest on the streets because i am full not because i am starving. For if my god listens to me...all shall be well and atleast some progress can be made. But if not, no amount of allahu akbar or jesus will save my country. Pray to your god...let her/him see eye to eye with you so that you can create the heaven here on earth...so you stop craving for that which cannot be verified until you dead(where you cannot warn us even if its a fallacy)

Joshthefirst:
Nigeria is in a terrible state, and there are many factors involved, but God doesn’t promise anything special or specific about Nigeria, what he definitely promises is a new heavenly nation where there’s no corruption or injustice, and I’m happy to be a citizen of that country through faith in Christ. Nigeria may get better, Nigeria may get worse, I continue to trust God and look for a new heaven and a new earth filled with righteousness and justice.

The problem with Nigeria and the world at large is the heart of men. Corruption and wickedness stem from the heart, and the only true and permanent fix is a change in man’s very nature.

This way of thinking is why we as a people have become docile and take all the beatings we get.
Its ironic that you mean to disagree with op's post while openly demonstrating his points.
When we turn here the rain beats us, when we turn here the sun beats us, yet some of us sit on the fence and jux stare... Hoping that a good samaritan is building a better tomorrow elsewhere for us. Meanwhile a strong umbrella, this single entity can solve both issues in a single swoop. And its not like we dont have the blueprint to build one. We jux feel better fantasizing over the better tomorrow elsewhere.

Please i would like you to take a critical look at things..you dnt need to abandon your religion but be liberal in your reasoning. You seem smart enough to do so.

kimco:


This way of thinking is why we as a people have become docile and take all the beatings we get.
Its ironic that you mean to disagree with op's post while openly demonstrating his points.
When we turn here the rain beats us, when we turn here the sun beats us, yet some of us sit on the fence and jux stare... Hoping that a good samaritan is building a better tomorrow elsewhere for us. Meanwhile a strong umbrella, this single entity can solve both issues in a single swoop. And its not like we dont have the blueprint to build one. We jux feel better fantasizing over the better tomorrow elsewhere.

Please i would like you to take a critical look at things..you dnt need to abandon your religion but be liberal in your reasoning. You seem smart enough to do so.

Oga it’s like you don’t live in Nigeria oh. Your so called liberal reasoning will get you nowhere. Nigeria’s problem is a deeply human problem. Corrupt men live above the law and lead very poorly and pervert justice. No amount of wishful thinking and worshipping of your children will miraculously change our situation. Our only change will be divine intervention through a change of hearts.

We are humanly hopeless, our only hope is God. And He will do what He purposes to do, as I’ve said earlier.

Joshthefirst:
Oga it’s like you don’t live in Nigeria oh. Your so called liberal reasoning will get you nowhere. Nigeria’s problem is a deeply human problem. Corrupt men live above the law and lead very poorly and pervert justice. No amount of wishful thinking and worshipping of your children will miraculously change our situation. Our only change will be divine intervention through a change of hearts.

We are humanly hopeless, our only hope is God. And He will do what He purposes to do, as I’ve said earlier.

You clearly missed the whole point of my post...you only saw my metaphors as literals and went straight back into ur spiritual world again.

Someone must start somewhere. Its funny you say im indulging in wishful thinking.

Well if you will not try to bond with your brother to make a better nation then so be it. Hopefully there are others who are will to start things.

Good luck in your fantasy world of spiritual haven