MosesAlex:

The spirit of error is the one leading you.
You conveniently ignored where I showed you lied. Who is then in error? That you lie to defend your way of thinking

Now you have jumped to another one.
Why are u quoting me out of context.

where is the error?
how can you imitate christ when you don't do his word?


the issue is that man should not seek to the dead which means consulting, praying through or to the dead.

Isaiah 8:19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?

Jesus never seek to any dead but he prayed to the father do you truly imitate christ?

Do you not ask people to pray for you. Your problem is that you think you can only ask those on earth to pray for you. But the truth which should also inspire you is that the holy ones on heaven can still pray for us . Death has not separated them. And I have showed you that the holy ones are hidden in Christ. And the prayers of a righteous person availeth much (James 5:16)

you shouldn't seek to the dead but the living.
is there any evidence the dead saints can pray for you? now you agree that the saints which are dead are dead.
no need of going round in circles.

topic here is about if the saints can pray for us. The answer is yes. And that their prayers are very efficacious.
It is ignorance and a plus to the devil for you to neglect what can help you.

James 5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:

5:15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

5:16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.


it is clear that James was not talking about the dead saints but believers praying for each other within the local church.

Paul was not writing to dead saints but to living saints so it can't be applied to dead saints

xproducer:


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Indeed - "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;" -1 Timothy 2:5


Keeping the Word is paramount - "And it happened, as He spoke these things, that a certain woman from the crowd raised her voice and said to Him, “Blessed is the womb that bore You, and the breasts which nursed You!” But He said, “More than that, blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it!” - Luke 11:27-28

I love this

bloodofthelamb:


And what is wrong with the prayer?

And what is wrong with Hail Mary?

bloodofthelamb:


This question is irrelevant. The question should be, what is the foundation of the prayer and to whom is it directed to?

That's the same question!

bloodofthelamb:
I pray different kind of prayer everyday directed to God my Father.

Why? Did Jesus teach you that?

budaatum:

And what is wrong with Hail Mary?

We pray to God and not to any saint. We have only one mediator and intercessor in heaven, the man Jesus Christ who always live to intercede for us before the Father.

bloodofthelamb:


We pray to God and not to any saint. We have only one mediator and intercessor in heaven, the man Jesus Christ who always live to intercede for us before the Father.

You assume to be sinless, yet you thank your Lord that you are not like that Catholic over there! You yourself mentioned how Jesus asked you to specifically "pray to your Father, who is unseen". Yet your prayer today was more than "Our Father".

Since you have judged, shall you too not be judged by the same measure?

budaatum:

You assume to be sinless, yet you thank your Lord that you are not like that Catholic over there! You yourself mentioned how Jesus asked you to specifically "pray to your Father, who is unseen". Yet your prayer today was more than "Our Father".

Since you have judged, shall you too not be judged by the same measure?

So correcting a friend who seems to be heading a wrong path is now judging? Jesus gave us a pattern of how to pray. He did not say we must pray exactly the same way he showed us.

bloodofthelamb:


So correcting a friend who seems to be heading a wrong path is now judging? Jesus gave us a pattern of how to pray. He did not say we must pray exactly the same way he showed us.

Shouldn't one check one's own path before concerning oneself about the path of another? Or are there not enough references in the God book for you to learn the errors of your own ways? Have you removed the twig in your own eye?

If Jesus did not say "pray exactly the same way he showed us", why do you assume to think how another prays is not pleasing enough?

Please stop with the "friend"!

solite3:
where is the error?
how can you imitate christ when you don't do his word?


the issue is that man should not seek to the dead which means consulting, praying through or to the dead.

Isaiah 8:19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?

Jesus never seek to any dead but he prayed to the father do you truly imitate christ?

you shouldn't seek to the dead but the living.
is there any evidence the dead saints can pray for you? now you agree that the saints which are dead are dead.
no need of going round in circles.



James 5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:

5:15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

5:16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.


it is clear that James was not talking about the dead saints but believers praying for each other within the local church.

Paul was not writing to dead saints but to living saints so it can't be applied to dead saints

God does not see them as dead.
Exodus 3:15 God also said to Moses, "Say to the Israelites, 'The LORD, the God of your fathers--the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob--has sent me to you.' "This is my name forever, the name you shall call me from generation to generation.

God is not the God of the Dead, but He is the God of Abraham, God of Isaac, and God of Jacob", why are you insisting they are dead when God said He is their God and that He is not the God of the Dead?

The problem is that you considered those who have died in Christ as dead, as though they are in the grave but they are with Christ.

Simple question , are the souls of those who have died in Christ separated from Him by death? Or are they with Him or hidden in Him?

2 Corinthians 5:8
We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord.

Now Luke 15:7 says there is great rejoicing in heaven when a sinner repents. So this means that the saints in heaven are aware of what is happening on earth.

Now Mt 18:10 says
"See that you do not despise one of these little ones. For I tell you that their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father in heaven.

The communion of saints have their God given role. I hope you get to understand this and stop quoting blindly. For a every truth the devil has its counterfeit. We are taking about heavenly allies and you are talking about the devil's counterfeit of Is 8:19.

How come you didn't accuse Jesus of that at the Transfiguration or the holy ones who appeared to many when Jesus resurrected with your quote of Is 8:19?

solite3:

you shouldn't seek to the dead but the living.
is there any evidence the dead saints can pray for you? now you agree that the saints which are dead are dead.
no need of going round in circles.

How many times would I have to remind you that Jesus spoke to some you called dead during the Transfiguration. The saints are living in Christ.

bloodofthelamb:


Did the Lord ask us to pray such? He layed a foundation of prayer for his disciples in Luke 11.

See question. Did the lord ask you to open churches here and there leaving the mother church.

You know what, Catholics are not bothered
about other churches and however they choose to worship.

You guys should leave them alone to worship however they wish..

Simple...

adelee777:

If you read through that prayer as a christian and you can't see what is wrong with it, then I think something is wrong somewhere. Pls point to a single scripture that insinuates that Mary can intercede for you.

The prayer is working for us ooo.

solite3:
I love this

+++++++

To God be all glory, my friend.

xproducer:


+++++

Indeed - "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;" -1 Timothy 2:5


Keeping the Word is paramount - "And it happened, as He spoke these things, that a certain woman from the crowd raised her voice and said to Him, “Blessed is the womb that bore You, and the breasts which nursed You!” But He said, “More than that, blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it!” - Luke 11:27-28

I have just taken some verses in which St Paul asked for prayers from others. Does his request for others to pray for him conflict with where same St Paul says 1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus

“…I know that through your prayers and the help of the Spirit of Jesus Christ this will turn out for my deliverance…” Philippians 1:19

“…strive together with me in your prayers to God on my behalf…” Romans 15:30

Romans 15:31-32, “Pray that…my service in Jerusalem may be acceptable to the saints there, so that by God’s will I may come to you with joy and together with you be refreshed.”

2 Corinthians 1:10-11
10 He has delivered us from such a deadly peril, and he will deliver us again. On him we have set our hope that he will continue to deliver us, 11 as you help us by your prayers.


Waiting for your response

MosesAlex:


I have just taken some verses in which St Paul asked for prayers from others. Does his request for others to pray for him conflict with where same St Paul says 1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus

“…I know that through your prayers and the help of the Spirit of Jesus Christ this will turn out for my deliverance…” Philippians 1:19

“…strive together with me in your prayers to God on my behalf…” Romans 15:30

Romans 15:31-32, “Pray that…my service in Jerusalem may be acceptable to the saints there, so that by God’s will I may come to you with joy and together with you be refreshed.”

2 Corinthians 1:10-11
10 He has delivered us from such a deadly peril, and he will deliver us again. On him we have set our hope that he will continue to deliver us, 11 as you help us by your prayers.


Waiting for your response

++++++++++++++++++++++
There are truly no conflicts in the Bible (even though some perceive some parts so).

Asking people to pray to GOD for you is not a bad thing. In fact, we are encouraged to pray for one another (1 Samuel 12:23, Matthew 5:44, James 5:16... "The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much." ), etc.

The context within which the Apostle Paul refers to the Lord Jesus Christ as the one (only) mediator between God and men in 1 Tim 2:5, is that of - the only Peacemaker, the only Atonement (Acts 4:12); the only One by, because of, and through Whom prayer can even be made (Ephesians 5:20), without which we would be in enmity with GOD (Ephesians 2:15-17), stemming from the fall of man.

Thank GOD for so great salvation!

xproducer:

++++++++++++++++++++++
There are truly no conflicts in the Bible (even though some perceive some parts so).

Asking people to pray to GOD for you is not a bad thing. In fact, we are encouraged to pray for one another (1 Samuel 12:23, Matthew 5:44, James 5:16... "The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much." ), etc.

The context within which the Apostle Paul refers to the Lord Jesus Christ as the one (only) mediator between God and men in 1 Tim 2:5, is that of - the only Peacemaker, the only Atonement (Acts 4:12); the only One by, because of, and through Whom prayer can even be made (Ephesians 5:20), without which we would be in enmity with GOD (Ephesians 2:15-17), stemming from the fall of man.

Thank GOD for so great salvation!

So you see that, you brought 1 Timothy 2:5 as though it contradicts the Hail Mary prayer. While in actually fact the same the St Paul who wrote that verse, asked others for prayer. So an interpretation of 1 Timothy 2:5 that speaks against request for intercessory prayers is a false interpretation.

...I know that through your prayers and the help of the Spirit of Jesus Christ this will turn out for my deliverance…” Philippians 1:19

St James adds
.Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective. James 5:16

MosesAlex:


So you see that, you brought 1 Timothy 2:5 as though it contradicts the Hail Mary prayer. While in actually fact the same the St Paul who wrote that verse, asked others for prayer. So an interpretation of 1 Timothy 2:5 that speaks against request for intercessory prayers is a false interpretation.

...I know that through your prayers and the help of the Spirit of Jesus Christ this will turn out for my deliverance…” Philippians 1:19

St James adds
.Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective. James 5:16

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Since you cannot read the heart and mind, you do not truly know what my intent was in citing 1 Timothy 2:5.

There is no argument here... we are to pray without ceasing (1 Thessalonians 5:17) to the Almighty GOD (there is only One), through and in the name of His Son, The Lord JESUS CHRIST... the only One through, and because of Whom we might be saved and be heard. It's that straightforward.

Deviation from this, is typically doctrine of men, not of GOD.

Peace and blessings.

xproducer:

+++++

Since you cannot read the heart and mind, you do not truly know what my intent was in citing 1 Timothy 2:5.

There is no argument here... we are to pray without ceasing (1 Thessalonians 5:17) to the Almighty GOD (there is only One), through and in the name of His Son, The Lord JESUS CHRIST... the only One through, and because of Whom we might be saved and be heard. It's that straightforward.

Deviation from this, is typically doctrine of men, not of GOD.

Peace and blessings.

So some questions
So what is your intent?

Are you against asking for Mary and the saints for intercession? Because they now with Christ and are not on earth?

2 Corinthians 5:8
We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord.

Do you think asking Mary and the saints in heaven who are hidden in Christ to pray us or to use St. Paul words in Rom 15:30 " strive with us in prayers is wrong?

Do you think scripturally that death has separated them from Christ?

Do you think they on aware of what goes on earth, when the scripture says there is great rejoicing in heaven when one sinner repents Luke 15:7?

To whose profit would it be for us to strive alone, when we can have heavenly backup?

“…I know that through your prayers and the help of the Spirit of Jesus Christ this will turn out for my deliverance…” Philippians 1:19

Ignorance is a tool of the devil (Hosea 4:6)

We know from experience that the prayers of the saints are efficacious, but James 5:16 confirms why it so. Remember nothing unclean shall enter into the Kingdom of God. So those in heaven are righteous and are our allies. Pls make use of them. Ask to them to strive with you in prayers.


Rev 8:3
And another angel came, and stood before the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given to him much incense, that he should offer of the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar, which is before the throne of God.

MosesAlex:

So some questions
So what is your intent?

Are you against asking for Mary and the saints for intercession? Because they now with Christ and are not on earth?

2 Corinthians 5:8
We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord.

Do you think asking Mary and the saints in heaven who are hidden in Christ to pray us or to use Sy Paul words in Rom 15:30 " strive with us in prayers is wrong?

Do you think scripturally that death has separated them from Christ?

Do you think they on aware of what goes on earth, when the scripture says there is great rejoicing in heaven when one sinner repents Luke 15:7?

To whose profit would it be for us to strive alone, when we can have heavenly backup?

“…I know that through your prayers and the help of the Spirit of Jesus Christ this will turn out for my deliverance…” Philippians 1:19

Ignorance is a tool of the devil (Hosea 4:6) to deter people.

We know from experience that their prays are efficacious, but James 5:16 confirms why it so. Remember nothing unclean shall enter into the Kingdom of God. So in heaven are righteous and are our allies. Pls make use of them. Ask to them to strive with you in prayers.


Rev 8:3
And another angel came, and stood before the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given to him much incense, that he should offer of the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar, which is before the throne of God.

=========

"But avoid foolish disputes, genealogies, contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and useless." - Titus 3:9

Peace and blessings!

xproducer:

=========

"But avoid foolish disputes, genealogies, contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and useless." - Titus 3:9

Peace and blessings!

St Paul saw intercession as very useful.

..I know that through your prayers and the help of the Spirit of Jesus Christ this will turn out for my deliverance…” Philippians 1:19


2 Corinthians 1:11
as you help us by your prayers.

Matthew 5:37
37 But let [a]your ‘Yes’ be ‘Yes,’ and your ‘No,’ ‘No.’ For whatever is more than these is from the evil one.

Well, we are fighting an enemy, that would want to limit the help we can receive by the intercession of the saints and seeking to confuse those who rightly make use of it.

MosesAlex thank you. I see you have put all of them to shame. They claim they know d bible, they read d scripture literally, and then begin to criticize others faith. Is the hail Mary ur prayer, is d prayer directed to u. Who told u it is right or wrong...r u now God.??..is it wit that tiny mind of urs u want to start discerning what prayer is acceptable to God or not.

Hypocrites!!!!!!

MosesAlex:

St Paul saw intercession as very useful.

..I know that through your prayers and the help of the Spirit of Jesus Christ this will turn out for my deliverance…” Philippians 1:19


2 Corinthians 1:11
as you help us by your prayers.

Matthew 5:37
37 But let [a]your ‘Yes’ be ‘Yes,’ and your ‘No,’ ‘No.’ For whatever is more than these is from the evil one.

Well, we are fighting an enemy, that would want to limit the help we can receive by the intercession of the saints and seeking to confuse those who rightly make use of it.

What are you saying, confusing yourself with scriptures? Are there not dead saints during the days of apostle Paul, Peter and John? Why didn't they find it appropriate to seek their intercession and prayers?

It is clear from scriptures that Paul requested intercession from the living and not from the dead who have gone to be with the Lord.

bloodofthelamb:


What are you saying, confusing yourself with scriptures? Are there not dead saints during the days of apostle Paul, Peter and John? Why didn't they find it appropriate to seek their intercession and prayers?

It is clear from scriptures that Paul requested intercession from the living and not from the dead who have gone to be with the Lord.

To be dead in the physical,simply means to be away from the body. Those in heaven keep worshiping God And God does not see his people that have left the body as dead. Hence He says he is the God of Abraham, God of Isaac, God of Jacob. And that would be His name forever.(Exodus 3:15) And that He is not the God of the dead.

Jesus himself spoke with those whom you called dead, during the transfiguration It is important to note that the event happen while He was in prayer).

Luke 9:28-31
28 About eight days after Jesus said this, he took Peter, John and James with him and went up onto a mountain to pray. 29 As he was praying, the appearance of his face changed, and his clothes became as bright as a flash of lightning. 30 Two men, Moses and Elijah, appeared in glorious splendor, talking with Jesus.


As you have rightly said are the Saints with the Lord. Jesus himself warned us not to offend small children, because their angels have guaranteed access to the Father: "See that you do not despise one of these little ones; for I tell you that in heaven their angels always see the face of my Father who is in heaven" (Matt. 18:10). The Saints also have guaranteed access.

David, even made use of those who spiritually or physically stand before God in prayers.
Thus, in Psalm 103 we pray, "Bless the Lord, O you his angels, you mighty ones who do his word, hearkening to the voice of his word! Bless the Lord, all his hosts, his ministers that do his will!" (Ps. 103:20–21). And in the opening verses of Psalms 148 we pray, "Praise the Lord! Praise the Lord from the heavens, praise him in the heights! Praise him, all his angels, praise him, all his host!" . (Do you think the angels heard David?do think the saints hear? )

Saints in heaven are with the Our Lord, Jesus Christ.

In Rev 5. You see the twenty four elders praying and worshiping, you would even see them offering the prayers of all God's people with incense. You even see one of the elders consoling John the beloved.

The place I love most, those in heaven and on earth in joint prayers
Rev 5:13-14
13 Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, saying:

“To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb
be praise and honor and glory and power,
for ever and ever!”

14 The four living creatures said, “Amen,” and the elders fell down and worshiped.

The Apostles creed, we received from the early Church clearly states "We believe in the Communion of Saints"

MosesAlex:


To be dead in the physical,simply means to be away from the body. Those in heaven keep worshiping God And God does not see his people that have left the body as dead. Hence He says he is the God of Abraham, God of Isaac, God of Jacob. And that would be His name forever.(Exodus 3:15) And that He is not the God of the dead.

Jesus himself spoke with those whom you called dead, during the transfiguration It is important to note that the event happen while He was in prayer).

Luke 9:28-31
28 About eight days after Jesus said this, he took Peter, John and James with him and went up onto a mountain to pray. 29 As he was praying, the appearance of his face changed, and his clothes became as bright as a flash of lightning. 30 Two men, Moses and Elijah, appeared in glorious splendor, talking with Jesus.


As you have rightly said are the Saints with the Lord. Jesus himself warned us not to offend small children, because their angels have guaranteed access to the Father: "See that you do not despise one of these little ones; for I tell you that in heaven their angels always see the face of my Father who is in heaven" (Matt. 18:10). The Saints also have guaranteed access.

David, even made use of those who spiritually or physically stand before God in prayers.
Thus, in Psalm 103 we pray, "Bless the Lord, O you his angels, you mighty ones who do his word, hearkening to the voice of his word! Bless the Lord, all his hosts, his ministers that do his will!" (Ps. 103:20–21). And in the opening verses of Psalms 148 we pray, "Praise the Lord! Praise the Lord from the heavens, praise him in the heights! Praise him, all his angels, praise him, all his host!" . (Do you think the angels heard David?do think the saints hear? )

Saints in heaven are with the Our Lord, Jesus Christ.

In Rev 5. You see the twenty four elders praying and worshiping, you would even see them offering the prayers of all God's people with incense. You even see one of the elders consoling John the beloved.

The place I love most, those in heaven and on earth in joint prayers
Rev 5:13-14
13 Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, saying:

“To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb
be praise and honor and glory and power,
for ever and ever!”

14 The four living creatures said, “Amen,” and the elders fell down and worshiped.

The Apostles creed, we received from the early Church clearly states "We believe in the Communion of Saints"

1000000000 likes

MosesAlex:

God does not see them as dead.
Exodus 3:15 God also said to Moses, "Say to the Israelites, 'The LORD, the God of your fathers--the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob--has sent me to you.' "This is my name forever, the name you shall call me from generation to generation.

God is not the God of the Dead, but He is the God of Abraham, God of Isaac, and God of Jacob", why are you insisting they are dead when God said He is their God and that He is not the God of the Dead?

did he say they were not dead?

The problem is that you considered those who have died in Christ as dead, as though they are in the grave but they are with Christ.

Simple question , are the souls of those who have died in Christ separated from Him by death? Or are they with Him or hidden in Him?

2 Corinthians 5:8
We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord.

you are not making sense, who is talking about separation from God,


Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

the dead have no knowledge of things done under the sun, eccelsiates is speaking of physical death.

Now Luke 15:7 says there is great rejoicing in heaven when a sinner repents. So this means that the saints in heaven are aware of what is happening on earth.

Now Mt 18:10 says
"See that you do not despise one of these little ones. For I tell you that their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father in heaven.

@ bold, it does not. it is the angels of God that rejoice over one sinner that repents

Luke 15:10 Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth.

angels can carry prayers to God but they do not pray for or answer any prayer.

The communion of saints have their God given role. I hope you get to understand this and stop quoting blindly. For a every truth the devil has its counterfeit. We are taking about heavenly allies and you are talking about the devil's counterfeit of Is 8:19.

see who is quoting blindly, which role? the saints who are dead are asleep they can do no work.

How come you didn't accuse Jesus of that at the Transfiguration or the holy ones who appeared to many when Jesus resurrected with your quote of Is 8:19?
How many times would I have to remind you that Jesus spoke to some you called dead during the Transfiguration. The saints are living in Christ.

the Transfiguration was ordained by God to glorify Jesus.
Jesus never conjure Elijah and Moses or pray with or pray to them.
read Isaiah 8:19 it speaks of conjuring or seeking the dead or praying to or with the dead which Jesus never did.

solite3:
did he say they were not dead?

you are not making sense, who is talking about separation from God,


Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

the dead have no knowledge of things done under the sun, eccelsiates is speaking of physical death.

You are focusing on physical existence that ends with death. But spiritual existence continues. I am referring to ones spiritual existence which Ecclesiastes 9:5 does not talk about.

For definitely after death, the soul which is a spirit has knowledge and reward. Are you contesting this? See this bolded part in the Luke 16:25 below.

Luke 16:25 “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony.

solite3:

@ bold, it does not. it is the angels of God that rejoice over one sinner that repents

Luke 15:10 Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth.

Luke 15:7 I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent.
Souls were not in heaven until Our Lord Jesus Christ opened it for them. So now that souls are in heaven. It refers to all those in heaven simple.

solite3:

angels can carry prayers to God but they do not pray for or answer any prayer.

Angels pray, don't say what you don't know.

Zechariah 1:12-21
Then the angel of the LORD said, "O LORD of hosts, how long will You have no compassion for Jerusalem and the cities of Judah, with which You have been indignant these seventy years?" The LORD answered the angel who was speaking with me with gracious words, comforting words.

Luke 2:13-14
13And suddenly there appeared with the angel a great multitude of the heavenly host, praising God and saying: 14“Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace to men on whom His favor rests!”

Gensis 32:26-29

26 Then the man said, “Let me go, for it is daybreak.”
But Jacob replied, “I will not let you go unless you bless me.”
27 The man asked him, “What is your name?”
“Jacob,” he answered.
28 Then the man said, “Your name will no longer be Jacob, but Israel,[f] because you have struggled with God and with humans and have overcome.”
29 Jacob said, “Please tell me your name.”
But he replied, “Why do you ask my name?” Then he blessed him there.

solite3:

see who is quoting blindly, which role? the saints who are dead are asleep they can do no work.

So the ones who appeared during the Transfiguration were asleep too. Or the ones came out of their graves and appeared to many at Jesus Resurrection.
So you believe the souls now in heaven, are not praising God but asleep? Or is it that you don't know there are souls in heaven?

solite3:

the Transfiguration was ordained by God to glorify Jesus.
Jesus never conjure Elijah and Moses or pray with or pray to them.
read Isaiah 8:19 it speaks of conjuring or seeking the dead or praying to or with the dead which Jesus never did.

Wow! Elijah and Moses were not conjured. Sure because that sounds evil. Well we are not also conjuring anybody.
We are simply asking our brethren in heaven to pray with us and for us simple.

MosesAlex:

You are focusing on physical existence that ends with death. But spiritual existence continues. I am referring to ones spiritual existence which Ecclesiastes 9:5 does not talk about.

For definitely after death, the soul which is a spirit has knowledge and reward. Are you contesting this? See this bolded part in the Luke 16:25 below.

Luke 16:25 “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony.

I didn't say they have cease to exist neither does ecclesiastes


Luke 15:7 I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent.
Souls were not in heaven until Our Lord Jesus Christ opened it for them. So now that souls are in heaven. It refers to all those in heaven simple.


Angels pray, don't say what you don't know.

Zechariah 1:12-21
Then the angel of the LORD said, "O LORD of hosts, how long will You have no compassion for Jerusalem and the cities of Judah, with which You have been indignant these seventy years?" The LORD answered the angel who was speaking with me with gracious words, comforting words.

Luke 2:13-14
13And suddenly there appeared with the angel a great multitude of the heavenly host, praising God and saying: 14“Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace to men on whom His favor rests!”

Gensis 32:26-29

26 Then the man said, “Let me go, for it is daybreak.”
But Jacob replied, “I will not let you go unless you bless me.”
27 The man asked him, “What is your name?”
“Jacob,” he answered.
28 Then the man said, “Your name will no longer be Jacob, but Israel,[f] because you have struggled with God and with humans and have overcome.”
29 Jacob said, “Please tell me your name.”
But he replied, “Why do you ask my name?” Then he blessed him there.


So the ones who appeared during the Transfiguration were asleep too. Or the ones came out of their graves and appeared to many at Jesus Resurrection.
So you believe the souls now in heaven, are not praising God but asleep? Or is it that you don't know there are souls in heaven?



Wow! Elijah and Moses were not conjured. Sure because that sounds evil. Well we are not also conjuring anybody.
We are simply asking our brethren in heaven to with us and for us simple.

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MosesAlex:

You are focusing on physical existence that ends with death. But spiritual existence continues. I am referring to ones spiritual existence which Ecclesiastes 9:5 does not talk about.

For definitely after death, the soul which is a spirit has knowledge and reward. Are you contesting this? See this bolded part in the Luke 16:25 below.

Luke 16:25 “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony.

I can hardly understand the things you wrote bit let me explain what ecclesiastes says about the dead.

Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

the phrase 'under the sun' refers to the physical world
a dead man can no more partake in anything done under the earth, they don't even know what is going on, in the earth, their memory is gone.

Luke 15:7 I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent.
Souls were not in heaven until Our Lord Jesus Christ opened it for them. So now that souls are in heaven. It refers to all those in heaven simple.

Luke 15:10 Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth.

this verse proves he was referring to angels not dead saints.

Angels pray, don't say what you don't know.

Zechariah 1:12-21
Then the angel of the LORD said, "O LORD of hosts, how long will You have no compassion for Jerusalem and the cities of Judah, with which You have been indignant these seventy years?" The LORD answered the angel who was speaking with me with gracious words, comforting words.

there is great tendency that the angel of the Lord is no ordinary angel, it is one of the ways Christ manifested before his incarnation.

Luke 2:13-14
13And suddenly there appeared with the angel a great multitude of the heavenly host, praising God and saying: 14“Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace to men on whom His favor rests!”

Gensis 32:26-29

26 Then the man said, “Let me go, for it is daybreak.”
But Jacob replied, “I will not let you go unless you bless me.”
27 The man asked him, “What is your name?”
“Jacob,” he answered.
28 Then the man said, “Your name will no longer be Jacob, but Israel,[f] because you have struggled with God and with humans and have overcome.”
29 Jacob said, “Please tell me your name.”
But he replied, “Why do you ask my name?” Then he blessed him there.

again it was clearly stated that the person Jacob struggled with God and he was blessed that angel of the Lord was probanly God not a mere angel.

So the ones who appeared during the Transfiguration were asleep too. Or the ones came out of their graves and appeared to many at Jesus Resurrection.
So you believe the souls now in heaven, are not praising God but asleep? Or is it that you don't know there are souls in heaven?



Wow! Elijah and Moses were not conjured. Sure because that sounds evil. Well we are not also conjuring anybody.
We are simply asking our brethren in heaven to with us and for us simple.

they are asleep in the sense that they have ceased from any earthly labor that includes prayers etc.
Jesus did not pray to them or seek their help did he?

solite3:
I can hardly understand the things you wrote bit let me explain what ecclesiastes says about the dead.

Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

the phrase 'under the sun' refers to the physical world
a dead man can no more partake in anything done under the earth, they don't even know what is going on, in the earth, their memory is gone.





Luke 15:10 Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth.

this verse proves he was referring to angels not dead saints.

Angels pray, don't say what you don't know.

there is great tendency that the angel of the Lord is no ordinary angel, it is one of the ways Christ manifested before his incarnation.


again it was clearly stated that the person Jacob struggled with God and he was blessed that angel of the Lord was probanly God not a mere angel.


they are asleep in the sense that they have ceased from any earthly labor that includes prayers etc.
Jesus did not pray to them or seek their help did he?

Much grammar.
The simple question is how do you reconcile these two bible verses below with respect to the dead knowing anything & reward
Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

Luke 16:25 “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony.

solite3:
they are dead physically, meaning they are not aware of you.
Ecclesiastes 9:5-6 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

HE is the God of the living. To die physically is to live with him. Do you serve a dead god?

MosesAlex:

Much grammar.
The simple question is how do you reconcile these two bible verses below with respect to the dead knowing anything & reward
Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

Luke 16:25 “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony.

Ecclesiastes is Speaking of the dead in relation to the physical world not in the spiritual.
Read it slowly, the dead has no relationship with anything on earth such that they cannot receive any earthly honor or praise or reward neither can they pray intercede for anybody.
they have no knowledge of what is happening on earth.

Luke 16 is talking about the judgement of the dead immediately the die.

2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

alexdidi:
HE is the God of the living. To die physically is to live with him. Do you serve a dead god?

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

solite3:

the phrase 'under the sun' refers to the physical world
a dead man can no more partake in anything done under the earth, they don't even know what is going on, in the earth, their memory is gone.

Luke 16:25 “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony.

You cant ask someone without memory to remember. So you interpretation is wrong.

solite3:


there is great tendency that the angel of the Lord is no ordinary angel, it is one of the ways Christ manifested before his incarnation.

Great tendency indeed. The angel was speaking to the Lord of Host for goodness sake. Well because it does not align with your thinking, it is a great tendency. The passage is clear where the angel of the Lord was speaking and where the Lord was speaking. Well in your words, there is a tendency that you accept that you may be wrong.

solite3:

again it was clearly stated that the person Jacob struggled with God and he was blessed that angel of the Lord was probanly God not a mere angel.

So you accept that there is a tendency that you are wrong.

solite3:

they are asleep in the sense that they have ceased from any earthly labor that includes prayers etc.
Jesus did not pray to them or seek their help did he?

Ceased from prayers you say? Look at below and see that they dont only pray, they also serve
Rev 5
11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.