alBHAGDADI:
Why are you saying what the Bible never said?

Where is it written that those saints are the ones that accept Christ during the tribulation?

Stop lying.

NumbEmotions:


Very funny, did you read Jeremiah 30:7 at all? The church has no business with the great tribulation. It's the time of JACOB'S TROUBLE. It's not the church's problem. Bless u sir/ma.

alBHAGDADI:


Jeremiah 30:7 King James Version (KJV)
Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble, but he shall be saved out of it.


Where in the above verse does it say the tribulation is only for Jacob?

NumbEmotions:


Behold a fool that saith in his heart 'there is no God, I shall live a just life, age gracefully and die peacefully'....Of a truth your life is meaningless because there is no God in your lifeless world...Get a life!

alBHAGDADI:


Jiggaz, I can't believe you of all people, who go about preaching that only Jesus saves, and that humans cannot save themselves, is the same person saying that those left behind in your concept of rapture will have to pay for their salvation with their own blood.

Now, you said Mathew chapter 24 wasn't written to the church but to the Jews. That is totally wrong. Jesus was the one speaking in Mathew 24 and he was doing that to his disciples, not to the Jews. Remember it was his disciples that asked him to tell them what the signs of the end time will be.

Mathew 24:3
And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Now you claim that the church will be raptured before the tribulation. This is also wrong, my friend. The Genesis of your misunderstanding is you thinking the tribulation is actually the same thing as God's wrath poured on the wicked. That's why you think Christians won't be around. Christians won't be around during God's wrath on the wicked because they are not appointed onto wrath.

1 Thessalonians 5:9
For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

Now, how did I know that the church will be around during the tribulation? It is there in the same Mathew chapter 24.

Mathew 24:29-31

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

As you can see in verse 29, the tribulation occurs before the elect are raptured in verse 31. Jesus second coming is not a secret event as many false teachers have taught. It will be witnessed by all who will be alive then. Verse 30 proves that.

People have mistaken the phrase "as a thief in the night" to mean no one will see Jesus when he comes i.e he will come secretly to rapture the church, then he will now come a third time to destroy the wicked. This is false. The phrase like a thief in the night simply means no one knows the hour or time he will come. If you've ever been robbed by thieves, I believe you never saw it coming nor did they announce to you that they will be coming. That is what Christ meant when he used that phrase. No one knows the hour or day he will come.

The same language used in Mathew 24:29-31 is the same language used below.

1 Thessalonians 4:16

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


My friend, you need to study more on rapture to know what it truly is.

cc izzou

echodrum:
fool you called me? Wow.. of course your Bible preachers teach you to abuse anyone who dare to disagree with your believe which is the same reason why ISIS , Boko haram, Ishbab and others kill for thier teachers. I still maintain that you are ignorance of how things work. You have no idea how life works. Your thinking abilities depend on your teachers. Which ever idea they come up with, that's what is best for you. Nigeria for instance, is made of at least 80% of people like you (worshipers). I can see how meaningful thier life's are. With thier meaningful life they constantly blame thier Government for the terrible life they leave in Nigeria but never for once blame thier all powerful God for not doing his own part in making life easy for them.

NumbEmotions:


That still hast not redeemed thee from the folly which thou hath embraced. I calleth no man a fool but thou art surely called thyself a fool by indeed being a fool that is ye hast seen thyself to be wise in thine own eyes ..lo, thou exclaimed with pride that there is no God and to such a man God (not I) calleth he a fool. Me too when I had known not God was a FOOL. sorry sir but thou art surely a fool.

tstx:
If you were born into a muslim home this post would have been about Allah and Mohammed.
We are all victims of circumstances.
The white man shaped us, told us which God to serve, how to dress and which language is best... As a result of their meddle... what we are today and what we will ever be tomorrow will be as a result of colonialism..

echodrum:
your argument is baseless and meaningless because you can hardly establish any fact apart from referring to your Bible. What about you leave Bible alone and make one single sense that is sound and based on life reality. To your understanding, I'm a fool simply because your Bible said so. You can't reason at all. All your reasoning is circling around your Bible. All the facts I pointed out in my earlier reply to are substances that you can not even defend because you lack the technical ideas and facts to defend them.

Rolly22:


True talk

jiggaz:
My brother, Matthew 24 is not for the church but the Jewish remnant. When Jesus was addressing His disciples, he was addressing them as the Jews because He hasn't died yet and His disciples have no knowledge that there will be anything like the church. Hence they asked him when He is going to restore the kingdom to Israel. Note, Israel, they didn't know that there will be something called the church cos that's how God planned to save the gentiles. They thought Jesus is going to restore the kingdom to Israel immediately not knowing that there will be an interval of 2,000 years before God restore the kingdom to Israel during the Millenial reign of Christ. During the 2,000 years ( the Church age) God is going to save the gentiles from different nations of the world until the last person is saved, then He will tell Christ to go get his bride ( the Church), thats the rapture of the church. Then the unbelievers that are left behind will see what happened and many will turn to Christ but to be a believer after the rapture will be very hard because the Antichrist will be reigning by then. Most of the tribulation saints will be murdered by the Antichrist but most of them will be saved. They are the group of saints John saw in the book of Revelation. A great multitude from all over the world that no one can number, and they were before the throne of God wearing white garments.

Every believer in Christ will rapture during the rapture. No believer will be left behind. It's only unbelievers that will be left behind. My bro please stop mixing Thesolonians with Matthew. In the book of Thessolonians, Paul was telling the church about the Rapture while Matthew 24, Jesus was telling his disciples ( representatives of the Jewish remnant) about the endtimes.

The rapture you think u saw in Matthew 24 was not the rapture, it's the Second coming of Christ. When He appears in the cloud with His raptured saints and his feet will touch down on Mount Olives for the battle of Armageddon to save the Jews from the Antichrist. Remember, the tribulation is the time of Jacob's trouble when God allow the Antichrist to deal with the Jews for rejecting Christ. The church has no business with the tribulation. Jacob's trouble means Israel's trouble not the church. During the tribulation, the church will be in heaven celebrating the marriage supper of the lamb.

I know so much about the rapture, the endtimes and the millenial kingdom cos i read widely. I enjoy reading about the end. I have so many articles from Pastor Jack Kelley( he's a Bible scholar that specializes on God's grace and also the end times) about the endtimes with Bible references.

tstx:
If you were born into a muslim home this post would have been about Allah and Mohammed.
We are all victims of circumstances.
The white man shaped us, told us which God to serve, how to dress and which language is best... As a result of their meddle... what we are today and what we will ever be tomorrow will be as a result of colonialism..

alBHAGDADI:



You say I should not mistake Mathew 24 with 1 Thessalonians 4:16. If you check very well, but passages are speaking about the rapture. Both events speak of the same thing e.g a trumpet, angels, Jesus descending from heaven and the elect getting gathered. How you think they are separate events is what baffles me. Read the passages again.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


Mathew 24:29-31

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


Now, you say the passage in Mathew 24 was Jesus speaking to Jews, which means everything in that passage is for the Jews alone and not for Christians. That is wrong. If you go to Mark 13, you will see the same story there. As if God knew some people will come up with a clever lie that Jesus was only talking to the Jews, God ensured that the last verse of Mark 13, which speaks of the same story in Mathew 24, clearly state that it was a story for ALL.

Mark 13:37
And what I say unto you I say unto ALL, Watch.


What Jesus said wasn't for the Jews only but for everybody.

You say the rapture as seen in Mathew 24 isn't the rapture, yet you haven't shown me where the Bible speaks of another rapture apart from Mathew 24. Perhaps you think 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 is another rapture. I just showed you that the event in that passage is the same as we see in Mathew 24.

Mathew 24 doesn't say Jesus is coming down with his saints. It simply says He appears in the sky and sends his angels to GATHER His elects from the four winds i.e from all corners of the earth. But you say he is coming down with them. Where is that written?

Forget about what jack Kelly says and focus on the Bible for yourself. Jack Kelly is a man who can get things wrong but not the Bible.

alBHAGDADI:
jiggaz, I will advise you read the transcript below. It totally exposes the falsehood of pre-tribulation rapture.

www.faithfulwordbaptist.org/after_the_tribulation.html

jiggaz:
My brother, Matthew 24 is not for the church but the Jewish remnant. When Jesus was addressing His disciples, he was addressing them as the Jews because He hasn't died yet and His disciples have no knowledge that there will be anything like the church. Hence they asked him when He is going to restore the kingdom to Israel. Note, Israel, they didn't know that there will be something called the church cos that's how God planned to save the gentiles. They thought Jesus is going to restore the kingdom to Israel immediately not knowing that there will be an interval of 2,000 years before God restore the kingdom to Israel during the Millenial reign of Christ. During the 2,000 years ( the Church age) God is going to save the gentiles from different nations of the world until the last person is saved, then He will tell Christ to go get his bride ( the Church), thats the rapture of the church. Then the unbelievers that are left behind will see what happened and many will turn to Christ but to be a believer after the rapture will be very hard because the Antichrist will be reigning by then. Most of the tribulation saints will be murdered by the Antichrist but most of them will be saved. They are the group of saints John saw in the book of Revelation. A great multitude from all over the world that no one can number, and they were before the throne of God wearing white garments.

Every believer in Christ will rapture during the rapture. No believer will be left behind. It's only unbelievers that will be left behind. My bro please stop mixing Thesolonians with Matthew. In the book of Thessolonians, Paul was telling the church about the Rapture while Matthew 24, Jesus was telling his disciples ( representatives of the Jewish remnant) about the endtimes.

The rapture you think u saw in Matthew 24 was not the rapture, it's the Second coming of Christ. When He appears in the cloud with His raptured saints and his feet will touch down on Mount Olives for the battle of Armageddon to save the Jews from the Antichrist. Remember, the tribulation is the time of Jacob's trouble when God allow the Antichrist to deal with the Jews for rejecting Christ. The church has no business with the tribulation. Jacob's trouble means Israel's trouble not the church. During the tribulation, the church will be in heaven celebrating the marriage supper of the lamb.

I know so much about the rapture, the endtimes and the millenial kingdom cos i read widely. I enjoy reading about the end. I have so many articles from Pastor Jack Kelley( he's a Bible scholar that specializes on God's grace and also the end times) about the endtimes with Bible references.

NumbEmotions:


All right my friend lets be logical and technical too.
Give me reasons why u deny the existence of a God? ...and precisely why don't you bliv d bible?

solite3:
alBHAGDADI you are wrong here, Jesus promised to keep those that keeps his word from the hour of temptation that will come on the whole world.
note that Jesus said he will keep them from that hour not that he would keep them in the hour of temptation the later would have met that they would pass through it but kept alive but the former means they will not partake of it at all.




Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

jiggaz:
No don't bother... Let's let this thing rest. There's no point arguing.

solite3:
Biblical Proof Of A Pretribulation Rapture


Matthew 24:42-44, “Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up . Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.” —Hebrews 11:5

Our Lord Jesus Christ taught that He might come back at any time, suddenly, imminently, without any notice or signs. The most important characteristic of Christ's return is that it could happen without warning, suddenly, catching us off guard if we're not faithfully serving our Master...
Mark 13:32-37, “But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father. Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is . For the Son of man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch. Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning: Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping. And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch. ”

The Lord told us TO WATCH, because He might come back at any time, suddenly. For anyone to teach that the Rapture cannot happen until after the 7-year Tribulation period is blatant heresy. There's absolutely no way that the Rapture could happen after the Tribulation. There are numerous reasons. The following passage of Scripture 100% proves the Pretribulation return of Christ...
Matthew 24:42-44, “Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.”

If Steve Anderson and Alex Jones are correct in their Postribulation heresy, then we would know absolutely that Christ cannot return until after the Rapture (which would make Matthew 24:42-44 impossible). How can we watch for the Lord's imminent and sudden return if He cannot return until after all the tragic events of the 7-year Tribulation period (as taught in the book of Revelation)? The only logical and workable conclusion is a Pretribulation Rapture, that is, the Rapture will take place BEFORE the Tribulation Period .

Was Enoch The First Man To Be Raptured?
"By faith Enoch was TRANSLATED that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had
TRANSLATED him: for before his TRANSLATION he had this testimony, that he pleased God." —Hebrews 11:5
In Hebrews 11:5 we learn that Enoch was “translated” that he should not see death. However, this presents a problem because Romans 6:23 teaches that the wages of sin is death, and Romans 5:15 says that all men have sinned and therefore must die. Elijah was also caught up into a whirlwind of fire the Bible says, escaping natural death (2nd Kings 2:11). This is why some Bible students believe that Enoch and Elijah will be the two End Time prophets during the Revelation, who will be killed by the Antichrist (Revelation 11:3-12). This is speculation, as we do not know for certain.


I have heard some Bible scholars teach that Enoch was the first man to be Raptured, i.e., translated; but I do not agree with that. The Bible teaches that Jesus is the “firstfruits” in 1st Corinthians 15:20 and 23, “But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept... But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.” Jesus was killed, and then rose from the dead victorious in a glorified body. Likewise, believers will be changed; corruption shall put on incorruption; and our mortal bodies will be changed into immortal bodies, glorified in the likeness of our precious Lord's body. This will happen only at the Rapture when the Lord physically returns FOR His own, and not before.
The Lord Jesus Christ is the only Person to ever have died and then raised up and given a glorified body. Enoch and Elijah were miraculously removed from the world, but the Bible does not say that they were changed nor that they received glorified bodies. I would tend to agree that these two men are likely the prophets whom God will send to preach for 3 1/2 years during the Tribulation and then they will be killed, but again, I do not know for certain nor would I argue the point.

The Bible Plainly Teaches A Pretribulation Rapture

The Church will be removed from the earth BEFORE the appearing of the Antichrist (2nd Thessalonians 2:7,. There isn't one verse in the entire Bible which indicates that the Church will go through the Tribulation period. In fact, if you want proof of a Pretribulation Rapture, you'll find it simply by studying the Bible. If we compare Scriptures having to do with the Translation of the Church (i.e., the Rapture), with those passages relating to the setting up of Christ's Kingdom, one can only reasonably conclude that it would be utterly

IMPOSSIBLE for these two events to occur simultaneously . Let's look at some of the comparisons:
1. Matthew 25:31,32 - " When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory. And before him shall be gathered all nations " Carefully notice that Jesus is going to sit upon His throne in Jerusalem when He returns, and the nations of earth will be gathered before Him to be judged. How can this fact be reconciled with 1st Thessalonians 4:17, which states that the saints will be caught up together to meet with the Lord in the air?

2. Matthew 25:32 to 34 - " And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. " When the Lord returns to the earth at the Second Coming WITH His own, He is going to gather the nations of the earth together—separating the sheep from the goats (vs. 32), i.e., the righteous from the unrighteous. The sheep (saved) will simply enter the Kingdom, and the goats (unbelievers) be cast into everlasting fire. The test in this judgment is the treatment accorded by the nations to those whom Christ here calls "my brethren." These brethren are the Jewish remnant (i.e., the 144,000) who will have preached the Gospel of the kingdom to all nations during the Tribulation. Carefully notice, there is NO mention of a resurrection and the persons judged are the nations of the earth. In sharp contrast, according to 1st Corinthians 15:52 there WILL BE a resurrection at the time of the Rapture.

It is important to recognize that when Jesus returns to set up His Kingdom there is NO Rapture, i.e., no one is caught up into the air to be with the Lord. People who become Christians during the Tribulation Period will enter with their earthly bodies into the Millennium. Proof of this is found in Isaiah 65:20-25, and in Zechariah 8:5 where children are mentioned playing during the Millennium. Those saved during the Tribulation will enter physically into the Millennial Kingdom. Where will these humans come from if the saints are ALL raptured and changed at the END of the Tribulation, i.e., a Postribulation Rapture? Obviously this cannot be. The only logical conclusion is a Pretribulation Rapture!
3. Jude 1:14 - " And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints. " Carefully notice that NO mention is made of a Rapture at this time. Quite the contrary, here the Lord Jesus is returning with TEN THOUSANDS of His saints to the earth. That is drastically different than having our bodies changed, in the twinkling of an eye, and being "caught up" into the clouds to meet with the Lord. It would make no sense to say that Jesus is going to Rapture the saints, while coming to set up His Kingdom at the same time. Proof that this is not the case is the fact that Jesus will gather the nations and separate the sheep from the goats, i.e., the saved from the unsaved, at His Second Coming. Why would Jesus separate the saints TWICE? That is, why would Jesus Rapture the saints into the air, and then regather the SAME people a short time later when He arrived on the earth? Do you see the dilemma of the Postribulation heresy?

4. Revelation 19:11 to 14 - " And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. " Here we read about ARMIES from Heaven, riding upon white horses, following Christ into the Battle of Armageddon. There is NO mention of a Rapture. There is NOTHING in 1st Corinthians 15:51-54 or 1st Thessalonians 4:13-18 about armies, or ten thousands of saints, coming to earth to war. The exact opposite is stated... we will be LEAVING this sin-cursed earth! Amen!

These are but a few clear and irrefutable Scriptural evidences teaching a Pretribulation Rapture.
Further Evidence of a Pretribulation Rapture
God will NOT allow the Church to go through the
Tribulation Period . It will be a time of atrocities as the world has never known! God wouldn't destroy the wicked in Noah's day until Noah and his family were all safely aboard the ark. Not one drop of rain fell until Noah and his family were on the ark, and God had shut the door. Afterwards, the rains fell and the wicked were utterly destroyed.

The same is true of Lot and his family. Although Lot was a backslidden believer, he was nevertheless a "just man," a righteous man (2nd Peter 2:7,. We read in Genesis 19:22, " Haste thee, escape thither; for I cannot do any thing till thou be come thither. " These words were spoken by the angel whom God had sent to reign down fire and brimstone upon Sodom and Gomorrah. No judgment could fall upon Sodom, until Lot and his family were removed. Likewise, the Church will be Translated (Raptured) away from this sin-cursed world before the Tribulation.

"Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth." -Revelation 3:10
The "word of my patience" in Revelation 3:10 is the Word of God. Here we have God's promise that because we have kept HIS WORD concerning salvation, i.e., because we have OBEYED the Gospel, He will keep us "from the hour of temptation" (i.e., the Tribulation Period). This seven-year period of tribulation is referred to in the Old Testament as The Time of Jacob's Trouble in Jeremiah 30:7-11...
" Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble ; but he shall be saved out of it. For it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will break his yoke from off thy neck, and will burst thy bonds, and strangers shall no more serve themselves of him ... Therefore fear thou not, O my servant Jacob, saith the LORD; neither be dismayed, O Israel: for, lo, I will save thee from afar, and thy seed from the land of their captivity; and Jacob shall return, and shall be in rest, and be quiet, and none shall make him afraid. For I am with thee, saith the LORD, to save thee: though I make a full end of all nations whither I have scattered thee, yet will I not make a full end of thee: but I will correct thee in measure, and will not leave thee altogether unpunished. "
It will be when the Church is removed from the earth (i.e., after the Rapture) that God will again recognize the nation Israel in a special covenant relationship with Himself. During the Great Tribulation, a remnant out of Israel will repent and turn to their Messiah. They will become His witnesses (Revelation 7:3-.
.
of God.

solite3:


2) The Rapture is described as occurring at any time without warning.

Jesus stated in Matthew 24:42 , 44 to “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come… So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.” Not only do believers in Christ not know when to expect Him, but the Father Himself seems to have left Jesus out on the exact time His Son is to return. As Jesus stated in Matthew 24:36 , “No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.” These and other verses ( Mat. 24:36 , 42, 44 , 50; 25:13 ; 1 Thes. 4:18 ; Tit. 2:13 ; 1 Jn. 2:28 ; 3:2-3 ) indicate that Jesus’ arrival will come when nobody expects it.
The Second Coming, on the other hand, is preceded by many events, such as the rise of the Antichrist ( Rev. 12:13-17 ; Zech; 13:7-9), a treaty with Israel ( Dan. 9:27 ), the rebuilding of the Jewish Temple ( Mat. 24:15 ; 2 Thess. 2:3-4 ; Rev. 11:1-2 ), as well as plagues and judgments and persecutions destroying most of the world’s population (Rev. 6-18 ). The Book of Revelation reports these events as occurring during the 7-year Tribulation, which Revelation reveals precede the Second Coming.

Because the Rapture could happen at any moment and without warning and the Second Coming is preceded by so many signs, then the Rapture and Second Coming must be different events. The Rapture has to occur before the seven years’ worth of signs, because Christians are called to look for the Lord’s return rather than signs such as the Antichrist’s arrival. Once the signs begin, then the seven year countdown begins towards its end with Christ’s return at the Second Coming.

Jesus’ imminent return dismisses any of the other viewpoints related to a rapture that occur within or at the end of the Tribulation.

3) The Rapture and the removal of the “Restrainer” occur at the same time.
In 2 Thessalonians, the church at Thessalonica was afraid due to a false report that they had entered the Day of the Lord (Tribulation) and had somehow missed the Rapture. The Apostle Paul assured them that the Antichrist would not be revealed until a restraining force would be taken away so that the Man of Lawlessness could be revealed.
Because the revealing of the Antichrist coincides with the beginning of the 7-year Tribulation starting with his peace treaty with Israel ( Dan. 9:27 ), then the Restrainer has to be removed before the Tribulation. As the Holy Spirit also works in salvation ( Jn. 16:8-11 ; 1 Jn. 5:7 ) during the Tribulation, then it is the Church that must be the Restrainer that is removed. Therefore, the Rapture and the removal of the Church must coincide, and at the beginning of the seven years.

4) The Tribulation is for Israel’s redemption.
Jeremiah 30:7 describes the Tribulation as the “time of Jacob’s trouble” — “How awful that day will be! None will be like it. It will be a time of trouble for Jacob, but he will be saved out of it.”
In the Book of Matthew, whose primary audience is the Jews, Jesus explains to his Jewish followers what life will be like during the Tribulation. Also, Revelation 12 describes picturesquely a woman who gives birth and has to flee due to persecution during the Tribulation. The context shows the woman is Israel. And again, the Battle of Armageddon is the world against Israel. Two-thirds of the Jewish people will be killed from these battles. These texts and others show that the Tribulation is meant for the redemption of the Jewish people.

Why are the Jews the object of persecution during the Tribulation? For one, Satan hates the Jewish people for giving the world the Scriptures and the Messiah, as well as he wishes to thwart God’s promises to the Jews (see Bedrock #4). Secondly, the Jews have to be so desperately brought low that they finally call out to their Messiah “Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord” ( Mat. 23:39 ; Lk. 13:35 ). The Tribulation, then, is used for Israel’s redemption which also results in the punishment of the wicked. The Church does not fit into this scenario, and are left out of the purposes of the Tribulation. They would need to be removed — caught up — before the Tribulation begins.
5) The Tribulation is not for the Church.

The Tribulation is God’s wrath upon the unbelieving world, and not for those who are saved from Christ’s resurrection to the Rapture — called the Church. Yes believers have suffered all throughout human history, but there is a special time (just like the Flood) set apart called the Day of the Lord for God’s wrath. Christians suffering and the Tribulation/Day of the Lord are different.

True believers in Christ during the Church Age, represented by the Church of Philadelphia, are promised in Revelation 3:10 , “Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who live on the earth.” Paul states in 1 Thessalonians 1:10 , “and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead—Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath.” He also states in 1 Thessalonians 5:9 , “For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.” Romans 5:9 states,

“Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him!” Ephesians 5:6 states, “Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient.” Colossians 3:4 states, “When Christ, who is your life, appears, then you also will appear with him in glory.” Again and again, Scripture states the Church is not meant to endure God’s wrath.

alBHAGDADI:


You took that verse out of context. First and foremost, that was Jesus and he was speaking to the church in Philadelphia. This has nothing to do with Christians of the end time, neither those it have anything to do with end time. Otherwise, why would he say he wants to keep them from the temptation of that hour, when. the church in Philadelphia has stopped existing?

Secondly, he said he would keep them from the temptation of that hour. I thought you people said the tribulation is a period of 7 years. When did it become an hour?

izzou:


God bless you

alBHAGDADI:
I had to cut some of your post off cos they made this post too long for submission.

You wrote a long epistle which actually contradicts you and proves our point.

Your friends here have been saying Mathew 24 wasn't written to Christians but to the Jews, hence it can't be the rapture. But here you are citing verses 42-44 of Mathew 24 to show that it is the rapture because no one knows when Jesus will come. Aren't you all funny?

You say Jesus said no one knows the hour he will come.Yes, no one knows the HOUR, but it will be immediately after the Tribulation of those days as he said in verse 29 of the same chapter.

What part of AFTER don't you guys understand?

Mathew 24:29

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Matthew

echodrum:
fare enough. Just so you know I was born and raised in the Christian family. And I practiced Christianity for more than 35 years of my life. I was a choir master and a Sunday school teacher at a point. All along I have always noticed that some if not all of the teaching and preaching from our preachers doesn't connect. Through life experiences, I have come to realize that almost everything I was tough about prayers and Good answering prayers was not true. I have realized that whatever I have asked from God never come from unseen God but from me or from my fellow human being. Anything I can't do for myself no unseen God has ever done for me. No matter how I pray or go to church, all decisions, all actions, plans are all on me. I don't need to ask for permission from any unseen God for me to prosper or be successful in life
That is why, believers and unbelievers succeed or fail alike. Both get sick and iether die or recover alike. I believe that in life, once you apply the basic principles that guied anything you do, you will succeed with or without any God. It has work for me and I believe it has been working for so many people who do not even know what Bible is. So that means all the believes that There is God who we must ask permission to guide us and provide for us are false. If there is God how come poeple who don't care about him do even better in life endeavors than believers? How come Saudi Arabia, Dubai and other countries like China, who do not care about Bible and God are doing far more better than Nigeria where Christian abound? But if you Insist that God exit, then answer these.
1. if there is God who created heaven and Earth, where was God before the creation?
2. If there is God who is omnipotent and omniscience how come God created Eve even when he knows quite well that Eve would eat the fruit?
3. Why complain about the sinful world when he knew that it was going to be so?
4. Why Bother sent your son to die when as a matter of fact he knew that it was not going to change anything?
There are thousands of questions to ask but let me break it here until I hear from you.