Negro_Ntns:

thanks!


Well, I am not proving aything. I am only presenting. . . take it the way you want.

I'm not asking for proof. . . .can you enlighten us on OBA ATALA's links to Atlantis?

tpia@:

i knew it wouldnt be long before debosky showed up here on the warpath.


i wonder why debosky never fights the arrant criminals on nl but always chooses the[b] easy going people [/b]to disagree with.

eg myself, oyinda, negro ntns, etc.

Your amazing sense of humour is what makes me love you.

^^oro e o lesi.

yes, i said e.

i'm older than you.

debosky:

I'm not asking for proof. . . .can you enlighten us on OBA ATALA's links to Atlantis?



Your amazing sense of humour is what makes me love you.

Debo,

Dont trespass 

whoever owns dayokanu had better come carry him.

tpia@:

^^oro e o lesi.

yes, i said e.

i'm older than you.

Age aint nothing but a numba.

But seriously, does N_N have access to any historical accounts, narratives or evidence or is he simply playing with words to arrive at the conclusion?

We're talking Yoruba history here and it shouldn't be hidden from Yoruba people. . . .we want to learn.

I belong to T___

Tpiah,

He is not picking on people. . . debo is preoccupied with settling scores. . . past and long forfotten scores if I may say. I have noticed this in him.

He asked me for evidence and I wanted to know what evidence would satisfy him so we can fix the goalpost. . . but his response back was pre-emptive and calculating so that's why I said to him to make what he wants out of what I have written.

Normally when people ask me for proof I tell 'em to f-u-c-k off. . . .but I never tell debo that, but since he lacks wisdom enough to tell the difference in my approach I may have to bare my hands for him to see.

Debo, what does Atala in Yoruba mean and what is its symbol? You tell me that and I will show you the proof. The proof is in the staff of Obatala itself.

.

Negro_Ntns:

Tpiah,

He is not picking on people. . . debo is preoccupied with settling scores. . . past and long forfotten scores if I may say. I have noticed this in him.

Hehehehe. . . .you’ve added quack psychology to your list of occupations?

He asked me for evidence and I wanted to know what evidence would satisfy him so we can fix the goalpost. . . but his response back was pre-emptive and calculating so that's why I said to him to make what he wants out of what I have written.

My response was no such thing - there is no universally accepted evidence of the existence of Atlantis, so why would I subject your claim to more demanding evidential requirements than those for the city itself?

In plain English, give me what you have - any evidence is better than conjecture.

Normally when people ask me for proof I tell 'em to f-u-c-k off. . . .but I never tell debo that, but since he lacks wisdom enough to tell the difference in my approach I may have to bare my hands for him to see.

So you tell people wise people to f - off but you’ll gladly indulge my lack of wisdom? Interesting

Debo, what does Atala in Yoruba mean and what is its symbol? You tell me that and I will show you the proof. The proof is in the staff of Obatala itself.

I don’t know what Atala means, neither do I know its symbol. . . . .can you simply explain? I really hope this isn’t another one of your long winded merry go rounds.

My response was no such thing - there is no universally accepted evidence of the existence of Atlantis

Did u see this?

To the person asking about OBATALA,. . . .  it is OBA ATALA.  He was a mythical deity.

Besides, doesn't your mind query things you have no knowledge of?   Set your mind in motion to understand what Atala mean.  I have heard that you are Yoruba but I cannot be sure.  If Atala is Yoruba language then search for its meaning and tell us. 

FYI. . . its not on Google or Wiki, you will need to talk to the Elders to get the knowledge.

Are you saying that OBA ATALA never existed?

I don't have 'elders' living close by, and I am not inclined to fly to Ile Ife today to ask them. You need to stop this mildly irritating condescending behaviour and just speak plainly. I fear that will always be too much to ask when it comes to N_N.

Continuing on. from topic. . . .

From the settlemetn of the spiritual center in Ile Ife, the Yorubas formed a political kingdom with its capital in Gobir and was called OYO.  There was gradual downward push Southward, terminated by the coastal line.  The first ruling dynasty was set up in Ife, with Oduduwa as first King and thereafter created the Seven states.  The political structure of a Seven-state Empire was an imported knowledge. The seven states are Sabe, Popo, Ila-Orangun, Bini, Ketu, Oyo and Owu.  

Bini and Oyo were spurned off as individual Kingdoms later in history.

Are you saying that OBA ATALA never existed?

This is plain talk. Oba Atala was a myth. Atlantis was a myth. Sango, as god of thunder, was a myth. Sango was a king, not a god. Plain talk!

Ok. . . and in N_N's mythology you can make it up as you go along? What folklore led you to believe that OBA ATALA was ever connected with Atlantis?

Is this based on any knowledge/historical accounts you've come across or is this wholly your invention?

That is the simple question you fail to answer

You give the example of Sango. . . .there are established mythologies on Sango which are readily available, where is the Obatala linkage to Atlantis?

Plain talk my foot. . . . .I might as well say ADEBOLA created the EBOLA virus because his princeship was rejected by the People of the Congo.

I might as well say ADEBOLA created the EBOLA virus because his princeship was rejected by the People of the Congo

. , and Why can't you?

Negro_Ntns:

. , and Why can't you?

I can say my grandma is the first tooth fairy as well. . . .does that make it Yoruba History?

The point is, historical accounts should have some veracity, or basis in history for them to be accepted. There is no value in reading something simply thought up by the poster - that is called fiction, not history.


Are you here to make things up on the fly or to give a historical account with some basis outside of your imagination? If the latter is the case, kindly answer the question. If you're just formulating things as they please you, just say so.

Surely this is not beyond you?

debo, it willprofit you to sometimes put your logic to side and use inner light. All ofa sudden everyone now thinks anything they can't find in google and wiki must be false. How did you verify information before these tool aids? What I'm giving is information. . . . you have to take it the way you find convenient for your mind. If you can't digest it does not mean no one else can.

There is more to hstory than just links and references, . . .

The scriptures, the paintings, the artifacts, the secret doctrines and the mythologies; the deeds of kings, priests and heroes; the literatures of the poets and the scribes; the praise songs of the griots and the drummers. . . . . all of these records become the identity, the soul, the pride and the living blood of a nation.

It's like an optical arrangement - looking back in the mirror their past is recounted. It can also be a telescope - looking ahead through the lenses their future is magnified.

The arrangement must be carefully handled and it is imperative that it be done with precise focus otherwise the image of a people is inverted, resulting in a distorted and confused interpretation of their history and vision. . . .everything the've ever stood for or ever hope to become turned upside down! A once magnified throne of nobles, now a squatter waiting in line hoelessly for a promised aid that will never materialize.

Do you posess inner understanding at all? I just talked about how the Binis are changing Yoruba history, and we are silent but when one of us calling ourselves Yoruba rise up to the challenge you are always outthere with your self-proclaimed intelligence and reasonng trying to prove your worth.

What are you really worth to the Yoruba conscience? You don't impress at all. . . .maybe to the rivals you do! Fool!

plz can we get back on track before una start fighting over woman or whatever. As usual.



@ negro ntns

what are your views on the question of ancient oman and yoruba history. Is there any link or is it all mere conjecture.

i happened to come across a legend of a dynasty called yaaruba or Yoruba in medieval oman, but the trail always runs cold. I remember an old history book i read while young which mentioned oman as a possible source of some yoruba migration.

however, i think oman today has little or no links with any such story.


came across this interesting omani folk music too. I like the modern edge they gave it:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_0KM31MuzA&feature=player_embedded


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Y0i_IyrS8I&feature=related

this nko

Where did I limit you to google or wiki as evidence sources? I asked you a simple question - what is the source of your claim?

Instead of answering that, you resort to your asinine 'inner light' claptrap and a compendium of utter rubbish.

Historical claims must of necessity have a basis - be it oral narrative, lore passed on from previous generations or the songs and other such sources you mentioned. You have provided NO BASIS for your claim.

If you can't answer the simple question simply shut up and move on. Your attempts to becloud a simple query with long winded and convoluted statements are pointless.

Fools like you think long replies denote intelligence - it doesn't. Answer the simple question or keep your moronic ideas to yourself.

what are your views on the question of ancient oman and yoruba history. Is there any link or is it all mere conjecture.

i happened to come across a legend of a dynasty called yaaruba or Yoruba in medieval oman, but the trail always runs cold. I remember an old history book i read while young which mentioned oman as a possible source of some yoruba migration.

Tpia, Oman is in Southern Arabia and in ancient times the entire area was called Havilah. The Monarchies of Saudi Arabia, Oman, Yemen, UAE, Bahrain, Kuwait and Qatar all claim ancestry from Qahtan.

In the age where European philosophy and image is the standard bearer for humanity. . . . there is no desire out there whatsoever to associate any link, however true and factual, to an African philosophy. So the materials online will not give you a good and traceable connection dotting the limb to the root. But I want to assure you that Jewish scholars, Arab scholars, European scholars know who the Yorubas are. Have you used JSTOR before? You may have to subscribe to access it, its a library and contains some info that will shock you.

In 1850, a King in Lagos fought against British Navy invasion to defend Lagos and sank their assault ship and killed a number of sailors including the Captain of the ship. This info will never get online because it promotes the greatness and superiority of a people British Empire labeled uncivilized and barbaric. This is just example for you on how the facts of history are sometimes tweaked or completely hidden to shape impression. We cannot stand still and be an observer if we intend to achieve our own greatness. The world will not give us access. . . we have to grab it!

On the Oman connection. . . there is a people in Ethiopia called the Oramiyas. They were in the same branch with Yoruba in the Yemeni/Abyssinia emigration.

debo, you come to mind everytime I hear Igbos and Hausas say Yorubas are cowards. You are the prototype for that label. You should change your handle from debo to "deborah". You weak-willed buffoon!

wordsmithing is not the same as intelligence. Intelligence eludes you. . .and sodoes wisdom

debosky's wives- una dey do face as if una no see this thread o.

negro ntn's wife or wives- you dont know you should come and calm him down, abi?

abi which kind fair weather wives be these?

una no go dey far if it's Hot talk but in serious matters like these you're nowhere to be found.

o ga o.

As time evolves a hereditary stamp with  physiologically and historically based differences will separate the two. The dark color have a distinctive approach to reality in which knowledge is based on feelings rather than logic, where the arts are privileged over the sciences and where the emotions are aided over cerebral analysis. The light color on the other hand analyzes reality from an objective distance, never trusting his survival to faith.

@Negro

The above has to be the best paragraph I have seen on a post on Nairaland in a very long while. Thanks.

Any idea what sort of time we are talking about here regarding emigration from Havillah? When Ife was established, were Yoruba's advanced enough to have writings? In the decades and centuries that followed, did they manage to document the true stories? Surely the "pure" truth has been passed down, otherwise what purpose did the cults serve?


I am fed up with people having to refer to the Bible and the Quran. We know that these books mostly contain, at best, only half truths.


Agreed there are things reserved only for the initiated, encoded in the arts, etc. But something as basic as "where are we from" ought to be "in public domain". No? I want my kids to know the truth, not the cock and bull, obviously fabricated nonsense that they are told in Social Studies classes in elementary schoool.


I particularly like your theory of how the elements resulted in a "heriditary stamp" on the races. I have long held this view and was once slaughtered on a public forum (not Nairaland) for daring to air such an opinion.

*bookmarks thread*

Negro_Ntns:

debo, you come to mind everytime I hear Igbos and Hausas say Yorubas are cowards. You are the prototype for that label. You should change your handle from debo to "deborah". You weak-willed buffoon!

wordsmithing is not the same as intelligence. Intelligence eludes you. . .and sodoes wisdom

Coming from a buffoon like yourself who doesn't have the balls to defend his idiotic bunkum? That's rich.

You keep diverting from the simple question - what is the basis of your claim of OBA ATALA's link to ATLANTIS?

Do you even have a basis?

Try answering the questions - if you fail to do so, that suggests my initial assertion was correct - another example of high sounding, empty bullshite from Negro.

Negro_Ntns:

In 1850, a King in Lagos fought against British Navy invasion to defend Lagos and sank their assault ship and killed a number of sailors including the Captain of the ship. This info will never get online because it promotes the greatness and superiority of a people British Empire labeled uncivilized and barbaric. This is just example for you on how the facts of history are sometimes tweaked or completely hidden to shape impression. We cannot stand still and be an observer if we intend to achieve our own greatness. The world will not give us access. . . we have to grab it!

Rubbish, yet there are accounts of how the 'barbaric' Zulu defeated the English in battles in Kwazulu Natal? Another attempt to give yourself some grandiose importance by claiming to have some information others aren't privy to.

beyond your maniacal imaginations, there's little else to your posts beyond word play.


E.g. Terry G (from Delta state) sings a song titled 'Sangolo'. . . .which incidentally happens to be the name of a village in Burkina Faso. What is the conclusion? According to Negro, the people of Delta state must have migrated from Burkina Faso.

What a classy example of beer parlour scholarship from Negro's 'inner candle'.

The above has to be the best paragraph I have seen on a post on Nairaland in a very long while. Thanks.

Thank You!

Any idea what sort of time we are talking about here regarding emigration from Havillah? When Ife was established, were Yoruba's advanced enough to have writings? In the decades and centuries that followed, did they manage to document the true stories? Surely the "pure" truth has been passed down, otherwise what purpose did the cults serve?

Great question!

I do not have a time frame but I suspect it had to be after Judaism was already established and before Christianity had spread. This time will coincide with when the children of Israel returned from the Babylonian exile.

Yes, Yoruba had writings. When I was growing up I used to wonder at the symbols and writings on indigo ties - Adire. Any culture that had symbolic arts had a means of communication. Now did Yoruba had writing? Yes, they did. Much of the history and the customs were in oral form but there existed written records of official events and diplomatic alliances between kingdoms. The alphabets that we have today - A, B, D, E, F, G, GB. . . .etc. . . - are transliteration of accents and sounding words rendered in English letters. Sallam Alaikum is a transliteration of an Arabic language rendered in English letters to convey the accent and sound. We may have to look into articles of heirloom such as ancient adire clothings passed down generations to recollect the full text and symbols.

I am fed up with people having to refer to the Bible and the Quran. We know that these books mostly contain, at best, only half truths.

I cannot talk to the religious perspective because I actually opened this post on a political ground but it got moved to culture. It is running parallel with another post. Now, if we were discussing religion, I have an answer for your view. . . . .

Every great nation in the past and today and into the future will use the Bible and the Quran as the historical marker to burrow into the sand of humanity for their place. We cannot be an exception. I know I'm focusing on the Yorubas but the same applies to Igbo and Hausa. . . . . their history is in the Bible, they just need to find it.

Agreed there are things reserved only for the initiated, encoded in the arts, etc. But something as basic as "where are we from" ought to be "in public domain". No? I want my kids to know the truth, not the cock and bull, obviously fabricated nonsense that they are told in Social Studies classes in elementary schoool.

The only people who can counter that textbook bu-ll s-h-i-t is people like you asking the right question and creating, in the public domain, building blocks of information based on their discoveries. That's what I do. The information we discover and relay may need fine tuning as time goes on and our children make their own discoveries and add to the blocks. . . .but if it never gets started, however rudimentary it is in the beginning, then there will be no block for them to learn from or to add to. . . .and they continue in that circular orb of BS!

There are other people. . . cowards, with genteel tolerance. . . needing to create an image of educated minds and in that attempt they beat down on the building blocks. They have no alternative blocks or view because their minds are not conditioned to examine and reflect inward, or to envision. . . .they were educated to defend the textbook bu-ll s-h-i-t so that our children and our future will continue in its cycle of servitude. . . .copying, imitating but never originating an authentic African concept and independence of thought. One of these types is here as you can see. He has gone on google and wiki and since the info is not there he concludes if it was true that Obatala was linked with Atlantis, then the white man would have said so. White man never said so, the info had to be a falsehood. How many of Homer's stories are indeed true? Homer himself was nothing but a myth. . . but yet it is a curriculum read in Western academia. . . and I'm sure this coward debo never questioned the authenticity of Illiad. I have no doubt he read Shakespeare and I wonder if he ever questioned the fables for authenticity. Makes one wonder if certain Africans ought to be educated. . .

I particularly like your theory of how the elements resulted in a "heriditary stamp" on the races. I have long held this view and was once slaughtered on a public forum (not Nairaland) for daring to air such an opinion.

I am not surprised at all. . . . you were dealing with defenders of textbook bu-ll s-h-i-t! They are afraid to deviate from whitey and embrace African accounts.

I'll leave the question here for others to try to answer - can you explain your linkage of OBA ATALA to ATLANTIS?

I'm done here - meaningless drivel and no intent to depart from your well established patterns of long winded nonsense.

The first civilization to navigate the seas were the Pheonicians - Canaanites. They were the original cartographers and invented various ways for calculating bearings and the zenith as well as astronomy. These people were AFRO-ASIATICS and influenced cultures around the Meditarrenean as well as Egypt, Babylon and all in that area. Their Biblical root is Hamitic. All of Hamitic people have knowledge close to the origin of nature and are thus more inclined to practice secret cults. In these practices they often introduce heretics into the worship of GOD. GOD in turn punish their acts of disobedience and scatters them around to dedimate their power and influence over mankind.

IFA came out of the same land and was a pure religion of mankind until it was thus corrupted with heretics. Every Prophet in the monotheistic religion has travelled through this land of Cannan and every one of them that went through there has also sojourned in Egypt for safety. While Canaan is a hot bed. . . .Egypt is a refuge!

IFA, The Obelisk in Ile-Ife, Atala, Osugbo, Yemoja. . . .all of Yoruba deities and devotional worship came from these two lands. Even Orisa Ibeji. . .the mystery of twin births!

Atlantis, Atlas, Atala, . . . . all came from the first Navigators of the seas - the Canaans.

If any one challenge the claim, then come up with the meaning of Atala in Yoruba.

Negro_Ntns:

The first civilization to navigate the seas were the Pheonicians - Canaanites. They were the original cartographers and invented various ways for calculating bearings and the zenith as well as astronomy. These people were AFRO-ASIATICS and influenced cultures around the Meditarrenean as well as Egypt, Babylon and all in that area. Their Biblical root is Hamitic. All of Hamitic people have knowledge close to the origin of nature and are thus more inclined to practice secret cults. In these practices they often introduce heretics into the worship of GOD. GOD in turn punish their acts of disobedience and scatters them around to dedimate their power and influence over mankind.

IFA came out of the same land and was a pure religion of mankind until it was thus corrupted with heretics. Every Prophet in the monotheistic religion has travelled through this land of Cannan and every one of them that went through there has also sojourned in Egypt for safety. While Canaan is a hot bed. . . .Egypt is a refuge!

IFA, The Obelisk in Ile-Ife, Atala, Osugbo, Yemoja. . . .all of Yoruba deities and devotional worship came from these two lands. Even Orisa Ibeji. . .the mystery of twin births!

Atlantis, Atlas, Atala, . . . . all came from the first Navigators of the seas - the Canaans.

If any one challenge the claim, then come up with the meaning of Atala in Yoruba.

I am defiantly not challenging your claim.

Does ATALA in Yoruba mean white?

Negro_Ntns:

The first civilization to navigate the seas were the Pheonicians - Canaanites. They were the original cartographers and invented various ways for calculating bearings and the zenith as well as astronomy.

These people were AFRO-ASIATICS and influenced cultures around the Meditarrenean as well as Egypt, Babylon and all in that area.

Their Biblical root is Hamitic. All of Hamitic people have knowledge close to the origin of nature and are thus more inclined to practice secret cults. In these practices they often introduce heretics into the worship of GOD. GOD in turn punish their acts of disobedience and scatters them around to dedimate their power and influence over mankind.

IFA came out of the same land and was a pure religion of mankind until it was thus corrupted with heretics. Every Prophet in the monotheistic religion has travelled through this land of Cannan and every one of them that went through there has also sojourned in Egypt for safety. While Canaan is a hot bed. . . .Egypt is a refuge!

IFA, The Obelisk in Ile-Ife, Atala, Osugbo, Yemoja. . . .all of Yoruba deities and devotional worship came from these two lands. Even Orisa Ibeji. . .the mystery of twin births!

Atlantis, Atlas, Atala, . . . . all came from the first Navigators of the seas - the Canaans.

If any one challenge the claim, then come up with the meaning of Atala in Yoruba.

I almost missed that very important part. So that could be the reason for the black statues and art works found in some parts of the Med.

The word is rooted in aTHLaY - an old Hebrew word. It means constringent or to put limitation on something.

In Obatala, it occurs as a primal event - at the origin of man. Adam's life spanned three ages of human conscience.

1. As a resident in Eden - a state of infinity
2. As a resident outside of Eden - in a state of finite limitations or constraints
3. As a learner in the wilderness of the cosmos - a state of transformation.

Obatala, as a planetary deity, coincided with the stage of life constraints.

Atlantis as a myth coincided with the consciousness of man in an ocean of primordial being.