[Below is the transcript from the trial of Oba Overami and his chiefs which took place on Wednesday 1st September 1897 and Friday 3rd September 1897.]

The trial took place in the Consular Court House, Benin city. The court house was guarded inside and outside by the Haussa soldiers.

Sitting in court were there present:
Sir R. D. R. Moor, K.C.M.G., Commissioner and Consul-General;
Captain E. P. S. Roupell, Acting Political Resident;
Captain C. H. P. Carter, Officer Commanding Troops Benin City;
Nine members of the newly established Native Council,
Some 60 Chiefs of Benin City.
Oba Overami

There were no advocates on either side, and every witness was cautioned to speak the truth. The Consul-General opened the proceedings by stating that the palaver was not about the late fighting, because it was quite right that the natives should fight for their country, but that it was about the massacre of the unarmed white men of Phillips' peaceful expedition. The palaver would be managed native
fashion, that is, according to native custom and law, and not according to white
man's law. The first thing to settle was to find out who instigated the massacre,
whether the king or the chiefs ?

The three witnesses on behalf of the British were:
Igbedio, ' a boy ' {i.e., dependant) of the chief Obahawaie,
Agamoye, a boy of the chief Obassieki, and
Wobari, another boy of Obahawaie.

References:
1) A CATALOGUE OF THE CORRESPONDENCE AND PAPERS OF THE
NIGER COAST PROTECTORATE CSO 3/1/1 -3/5/1 1894-1899
NATIONAL ARCHIVES OF NIGERIA ENUGU

2) Bacon R. Benin City of Blood, 1897, p.111 (the King's House is the Palace of the White Chief)

3) Ibid p. 112 (they will be dictated to as to terms of surrender and their future behaviour.)

4) Ibid p.112 (as long as the Juju priests remain at large they will form centres of discontent,)

5) Ibid p.112 (the same system of native council as is in vogue with the Jakris will be instituted,)

6) Ibid p 112 (more likely to inspire confidence in the natives than the present Consul-General, Mr. R. Moor
Ibid. Great Britain, Gallwey to Foreign Office., 21 January l897.

7) Great Britain, Vol LX, Moor to Salisbury, 24 Feb., 1897

Ibid., Moor to Salisbury, 12 March, 1897.

9) Ibid., Moor to Salisbury, 18 March, 1897.

10) Guardian Newspaper, The Benin Massacre, Trial of the king. Two Chiefs shot, September 16, 1897

11) Moore, R. Benin Expedition, 1897 – February 22 1897 – Commons Sitting – HC Deb 22 February 1897 vol 46 c964; The First Lord of Admiralty on the Motion “That this House do now adjourn,”

Juliusmalema:



pure fallacy

Imagine such history of an underage boy u are using

Stop all these fallacy

Olaudah Equaino said he was around 11 years when he was captured


If in Igbo land, an 11 year old can't boldly state where he was born, where he was grew up and doesn't have livid memories abt his life.. I'm sorry to say this but the guy is a dull person...

I guess olaudah Equaino is an exception to the millions of dull person we have in Igbo land

Etinosa1234:


Olaudah Equaino said he was around 11 years when he was captured


If in Igbo land, an 11 year old can't boldly state where he was born, where he was grew up and doesn't have livid memories abt his life.. I'm sorry to say this but the guy is a dull person...

I guess olaudah Equaino is an exception to the millions of dull person we have in Igbo land

Olaudah is not dull according to you but others are dull because they refuse to accept the infuse bini-igbo non existent history. It is a fallacy.


Olaudah is a boy and can be influenced at that age so very much not to know his left from his right and made so much mistakes.

Aside him not even a single documented evidence supports such.

I have told you to stop sharing all these nonsense you called articles. It is an Insult and slight against Igbos.

We know true history when we see one and we don't deny such history when we see it.

Desist from sharing that olaudah and other non sound article. Not making sense.

Juliusmalema:



1)Olaudah is not dull according to you but others are dull because they refuse to accept the infuse bini-igbo non existent history. It is a fallacy.


2)Olaudah is a boy and can be influenced at that age so very much not to know his left from his right and made so much mistakes.

3)Aside him not even a single documented evidence supports such.

4)I have told you to stop sharing all these nonsense you called articles. It is an Insult and slight against Igbos.

We know true history when we see one and we don't deny such history when we see it.

5)Desist from sharing that olaudah and other non sound article. Not making sense.

1)If u know who olaudah was, u won't be making this kind of statement... Olaudah was a bright guy who fought for abolition of slavery. He was born in 1745... He knows the state of the World as that time... The people born presently may have no idea of Benin kingdom except they read about it. He spent more than 10 years in Africa.. isn't he supposed to be old enough to know the land which he stays and the ruler of his country... Even a 7 year old boy knows that he was born in Nigeria and his state (prolly Anambra ) is a part of the country Nigeria not to talk of. The present political awareness and the fact that Igbo is a major tribe makes them deny Benin past imperialism over them forgetting that they became one tribe after the amalgamation of Nigeria

2)This is a silly excuse.. Pls tell me, who wants to influence Olaudah in the white man land to say he was not born in the kingdom of Benin... ?
So are u saying that an 11 year old in ur state does not know his left from the right.. No wonder ipob have large following in the South east .. Even my cousin of 5 years knows where he was born and where he is from not to talk of a 11 year old whose knowledge will be more advanced... So are u saying that, in ur state, an 11 year old can't come out bravely to say the country he lives in without showing signs of brain malfunctioning... No wonder the number of dull people in Southeast keeps rising... No wonder only Nnamdi Kanu does the thinking for u and u guys follow like a sheep to the slaughter

3)This is what happens when u don't read to understand... Even Nnamdi Azikiwe who is from Onitsha stated in his Odyssey that he descended from royal line of the Oba of Benin.. ur Igbo historian have written books to say that Ezechima migrated from Benin... There is even a possibility that Nnamdi Azikiwe didn't know about Olaudah Equaino but somehow their history both correlate... Coincidence or not?

4)Its quite amazing that u are giving me command on what to post and what not to post on this forum... It seems like the truth hurts and u can't believe that ur big tribe was once under subjugation by a minority tribe... Take heart bro...

5) Lmao... Olaudah biography is not sound because he didn't write what u wanted u hear as at the 18th century... Lol u make me laugh... Read abt Olaudah and know why he was highly respected then... Even Nnamdi Azikiwe wrote his own biography and said the same thing.. I guess two people can be lieing 200 years apart


Well having answered ur questions, can u show me with any scholarly written work or an eyewitness account that contradicts the story of Olaudah Equaino as at the 18th century...?

Gregyboy
Samuk
Redbonesmith
Areafada2

Etinosa1234:


Lol

1)Unfortunately that’s not the only reference . Your people also wrote stories about Benin influences on the south east
Below is a link from an Igbo website that says ezechima came from Benin
https://www.google.com/amp/s/ukpuru.tumblr.com/post/124264146737/amp
This is another [url]https://books.google.com.ng/books?id=sWwuAQAAIAAJ&q=Benin&source=gbs_word_cloud_r&cad=3done[b]work[/b][/url] done by an Igbo historian stating the same
Also azikiwe traced his lineage to Benin... all their stories are coincidentally almost alike

There are many more that I could post for u.

2)Lol.. u want to compare personal knowledge or lemme say knowledge abt his own early life to the one of borders and locations of kingdoms. That he made the mistake in what borders the Benin kingdom doesn’t mean that the entire story is false especially given that there were less info abt other parts of the world as at that period... U can’t say his own biography is incorrect all because he made a mistake in locations of a kingdom. Thats plain stupidity .. Even as at now, there are some Nigerians who think America is located in Europe... but if they write their biography, will u trash it all because they made a mistake on what they’re less informed or will u saying they are lying in their biography all because they made a mistake there?

Also I havent seen any scholar claim that essaka was in delta instead.. all claim that the essaka(isseke) is a town in anambra state

3)There are many evidences abt that like the four days a week and ur market days but present political awareness have led some igbos to overturn it to claim Igbo influence over benin when it was otherwise

Thanks

I don't know how any intelligent person will interprete the Ezechime story as evidence of Benin rule in the southeast. That Mr A came from Benin doesn't mean Mr A's new home was ruled from Benin. Very simple logic that seems to fail most of you proponents of a greater Benin empire.

The story goes that Ezechime had a spat with the Oba and took his followers and fled east. Note: Ezechime fled east, across the Niger, away from territory under the oba. Nothing in the traditions suggests that the oba successfully pursued him across the Niger, to Onitsha and brought the new community of Onitsha within Benin's political rule. Onitsha was from the beginning an independent principality. In fact, if you study Onitsha history, you'll know that the kingdom cultivated more ties with Igala and Nri than with Benin, after they settled in their present location.

To take a similar example from European history: in the 18th century, some French protestants fleeing from Catholic persecution in France came and settled in South Africa, and established the city of Franschhoek. Did the French monarchy rule over these French protestants in their South African enclave?

You don't even know Equiano's story if you don't know that there are still many who believe he was from Ashaka in Delta State. His actual birthplace remains uncertain. Isseke was first suggested by Achebe and popularised by Acholonu. But that is just what it is: a suggestion. In fact, we even know he used to claim to have been born in South Carolina, United States. If you're using his book to claim Benin rule in the southeast in the 18th century, I'm not sure I can take you serious.

Etinosa1234:


1)If u know who olaudah was, u won't be making this kind of statement... Olaudah was a bright guy who fought for abolition of slavery. He was born in 1745... He knows the state of the World as that time... The people born presently may have no idea of Benin kingdom except they read about it. He spent more than 10 years in Africa.. isn't he supposed to be old enough to know the land which he stays and the ruler of his country... Even a 7 year old boy knows that he was born in Nigeria and his state (prolly Anambra ) is a part of the country Nigeria not to talk of. The present political awareness and the fact that Igbo is a major tribe makes them deny Benin past imperialism over them forgetting that they became one tribe after the amalgamation of Nigeria

2)This is a silly excuse.. Pls tell me, who wants to influence Olaudah in the white man land to say he was not born in the kingdom of Benin... ?
So are u saying that an 11 year old in ur state does not know his left from the right.. No wonder ipob have large following in the South east .. Even my cousin of 5 years knows where he was born and where he is from not to talk of a 11 year old whose knowledge will be more advanced... So are u saying that, in ur state, an 11 year old can't come out bravely to say the country he lives in without showing signs of brain malfunctioning... No wonder the number of dull people in Southeast keeps rising... No wonder only Nnamdi Kanu does the thinking for u and u guys follow like a sheep to the slaughter

3)This is what happens when u don't read to understand... Even Nnamdi Azikiwe who is from Onitsha stated in his Odyssey that he descended from royal line of the Oba of Benin.. ur Igbo historian have written books to say that Ezechima migrated from Benin... There is even a possibility that Nnamdi Azikiwe didn't know about Olaudah Equaino but somehow their history both correlate... Coincidence or not?

4)Its quite amazing that u are giving me command on what to post and what not to post on this forum... It seems like the truth hurts and u can't believe that ur big tribe was once under subjugation by a minority tribe... Take heart bro...

5) Lmao... Olaudah biography is not sound because he didn't write what u wanted u hear as at the 18th century... Lol u make me laugh... Read abt Olaudah and know why he was highly respected then... Even Nnamdi Azikiwe wrote his own biography and said the same thing.. I guess two people can be lieing 200 years apart


Well having answered ur questions, can u show me with any scholarly written work or an eyewitness account that contradicts the story of Olaudah Equaino as at the 18th century...?

Gregyboy
Samuk
Redbonesmith
Areafada2

Lol. I'll reiterate. There are things about Olaudah's autobiography that are still suspect. There is evidence that he may not have even been born in Africa at all, but in South Carolina. "May".

So if his book is all the evidence you can adduce for your Benin empire in SE Nigeria, you have nothing.

Come on, Benin traditions are rich. How come there are no independent traditions of Benin conquest in the East?

RedboneSmith:


I don't know how any intelligent person will interprete the Ezechime story as evidence of Benin rule in the southeast. That Mr A came from Benin doesn't mean Mr A's new home was ruled from Benin. Very simple logic that seems to fail most of you proponents of a greater Benin empire.

Lol... Eze Chima is not the only story...... Besides ur main question was to prove to u that Benin ruled The Igbos... And I've shown u already... Ezechima story along with Azikiwe all showed that the Igbo people was once under the Benin kingdom

The story goes that Ezechime had a spat with the Oba and took his followers and fled east. Note: Ezechime fled east, across the Niger, away from territory under the oba. Nothing in the traditions suggests that the oba successfully pursued him across the Niger, to Onitsha and brought the new community of Onitsha within Benin's political rule. Onitsha was from the beginning an independent principality. In fact, if you study Onitsha history, you'll know that the kingdom cultivated more ties with Igala and Nri than with Benin, after they settled in their present location

.

U are diverting from the topic... Ur first claim was to prove that Benin ruled Igbos.. Ezechima as an Igbo migrated to onicha from Benin is more than proof that Benin had Igbos under their Kingdom .. Lemme use this analogy for u,... A Nigerian migrates out of the country and settles in Europe.. and becomes a citizen there... But even tho he's a citizen of that place.. He knows that he originated from or was born in Nigeria and was ruled by Nigerians even tho he's no longer there.. That was what ezechima did... He migrated from Benin to onicha and became a citizen there but his origin is clearly Benin

By the way u just proved that Onitsha migrated from Benin... Nice

To take a similar example from European history: in the 18th century, some French protestants fleeing from Catholic persecution in France came and settled in South Africa, and established the city of Franschhoek. Did the French monarchy rule over these French protestants in their South African enclave?

Lol... Even tho onicha wasn't exclusively under Benin kingdom, some parts of South East was and that was what Olaudah Equaino specified on his biography

You don't even know Equiano's story if you don't know that there are still many who believe he was from Ashaka in Delta State. His actual birthplace remains uncertain. Isseke was first suggested by Achebe and popularised by Acholonu. But that is just what it is: a suggestion. In fact, we even know he used to claim to have been born in South Carolina, United States. If you're using his book to claim Benin rule in the southeast in the 18th century, I'm not sure I can take you serious.

Very hilarious... Why don't u venture into comedy?... According to his memoir, he stated he was born in Essaka and kidnapped into slavery... If he was born in South Carolina according to some third party claims, then tell me how he was able to know that he was being captured into slavery
Given the time he lived and the way information was not common, how was he able to write in his memoir that he was born in Essaka(an unknown town)in the kingdom of Benin
How was he able to write in his own autobiography that he was kidnapped when the adults went to farm?

There is no actual report that he was born in achaka in delta state... Stop bringing beer parlour talk here... Most historians say he was born in present day isseke... Can those who claim achaka be brave enough to prove it?
Using ur logic, there are still some people that believe that Trump won the US election. Should we now say they are correct even when they can't prove it... I actually wonder how u reason... I don't know abt Achebe report on isseke.. but there are reports of where he was born being called isseke... See the pic below

Lastly so according to you, someone who was present in the 18th century is lying abt his history but you That is born prolly late last century or early this century is Correct... Wel done ooo OmniKnowest ...Its u that

Well since u think that Olaudah is lieing, I dare u to bring a contradictory account that says that part of South East wasn't under Benin as at 18th century?

The pic below is a work from P Edwards who scrutinised and concluded that Essaka was actually isseke... Stop bringing beer parlour talks here

RedboneSmith:



Lol. I'll reiterate. There are things about Olaudah's autobiography that are still suspect. There is evidence that he may not have even been born in Africa at all, but in South Carolina. "May".

Lol... I'm sure u got this from Wikipedia... Well.. on that same page, it was disputed with weight of evidence that the Carolina theory was wrong
.. even ur Vincent carreta couldn't fight back becaus it was the truth.. Besides how will u know the history of someone more than the person esp when u are not the parent?
This is just similar to what u guys are doing to the ikwerre people who trace their origin to Benin but u guys being the I too know of the country want to teach them their history. The pic below was how it was debunked

So if his book is all the evidence you can adduce for your Benin empire in SE Nigeria, you have nothing.

His book was the only autobiography from an Igbo man as at the 18th century... As long as there is no counter evidence that Benin Empire didn't reach parts of southeast ,then Olaudah words stand true... Surely I don't think u are close to 300 years old to be able to that Benin never ruled Igbos... If no , then what basis so u have?

This is just similar to the Yoruba people who have people in Benin togo and Cuba but they are not Nigerians

Come on, Benin traditions are rich. How come there are no independent traditions of Benin conquest in the East?

Because they were already under us... Apart from the natural barrier, every other tribe from Benin to most parts of delta were under the Benin Empire mostly subjugated during oba ewuare time

This pic is from Bugg, John (October 2006). "The Other Interesting Narrative: Olaudah Equiano's Public Book Tour". when he debunked the nonsense Carolina theory

samuk:

[Below is the transcript from the trial of Oba Overami and his chiefs which took place on Wednesday 1st September 1897 and Friday 3rd September 1897.]

The trial took place in the Consular Court House, Benin city. The court house was guarded inside and outside by the Haussa soldiers.

Sitting in court were there present:
Sir R. D. R. Moor, K.C.M.G., Commissioner and Consul-General;
Captain E. P. S. Roupell, Acting Political Resident;
Captain C. H. P. Carter, Officer Commanding Troops Benin City;
Nine members of the newly established Native Council,
Some 60 Chiefs of Benin City.
Oba Overami

There were no advocates on either side, and every witness was cautioned to speak the truth. The Consul-General opened the proceedings by stating that the palaver was not about the late fighting, because it was quite right that the natives should fight for their country, but that it was about the massacre of the unarmed white men of Phillips' peaceful expedition. The palaver would be managed native
fashion, that is, according to native custom and law, and not according to white
man's law. The first thing to settle was to find out who instigated the massacre,
whether the king or the chiefs ?

The three witnesses on behalf of the British were:
Igbedio, ' a boy ' {i.e., dependant) of the chief Obahawaie,
Agamoye, a boy of the chief Obassieki, and
Wobari, another boy of Obahawaie.

References:
1) A CATALOGUE OF THE CORRESPONDENCE AND PAPERS OF THE
NIGER COAST PROTECTORATE CSO 3/1/1 -3/5/1 1894-1899
NATIONAL ARCHIVES OF NIGERIA ENUGU

2) Bacon R. Benin City of Blood, 1897, p.111 (the King's House is the Palace of the White Chief)

3) Ibid p. 112 (they will be dictated to as to terms of surrender and their future behaviour.)

4) Ibid p.112 (as long as the Juju priests remain at large they will form centres of discontent,)

5) Ibid p.112 (the same system of native council as is in vogue with the Jakris will be instituted,)

6) Ibid p 112 (more likely to inspire confidence in the natives than the present Consul-General, Mr. R. Moor
Ibid. Great Britain, Gallwey to Foreign Office., 21 January l897.

7) Great Britain, Vol LX, Moor to Salisbury, 24 Feb., 1897

Ibid., Moor to Salisbury, 12 March, 1897.

9) Ibid., Moor to Salisbury, 18 March, 1897.

10) Guardian Newspaper, The Benin Massacre, Trial of the king. Two Chiefs shot, September 16, 1897

11) Moore, R. Benin Expedition, 1897 – February 22 1897 – Commons Sitting – HC Deb 22 February 1897 vol 46 c964; The First Lord of Admiralty on the Motion “That this House do now adjourn,”

Notice yourself how you have out of desperation shamelessly resorted to fraud.

You attempted a similar fraud on this same thread yesterday where you ripped off a 21st century internet publication wherein the author’s own wordings use "oba" in relation to the Benin monarch.

You tried desperately to fraudulently pass off the 21st century writing to the unsuspecting reader as if its actual wordings were coming directly as a quotation from the 1800s.

Click here to have your mind refreshed on how your dry ass was spanked yesterday for peddling such fraud. Lol!

Your modus operandi has remained the same even today despite the disgrace you were made to face for a similar act yesterday.

What’s even more disgraceful for you is how for the second time you’ve mindlessly lifted off and pasted the bibliography listing found on the webpages.

You’ve continued to do just that in a bid to confuse the untrained reader into believing that the wording you’re presenting comes as a quotation from one of the listed bibliographies. You are such a disgrace. I spit on you!

Having said that, just like I disgraced you for such a fraudulent attempt yesterday, I will be doing so again even now — and I’m convinced that the readers who used to be unsuspecting are now very wary and cautious of your unrelenting fraudulent modus operandi.

In any case, the wording "oba" is simply not used for "Overami" (Ovoranmwen) anywhere in the original wordings.

The attachment below shows a screenshot of the original wordings without the word “oba” for your monarch.

cc: @Afam4eva, @macof, @RedboneSmith, @Juliusmalema, @scholes0


————————
PS insertion for the fair readers:

Read the attached screenshot to the end to observe the contrast between the original text and the different wordings with which his 21st century internet author has paraphrased rather than quote.

Etinosa1234:

Lol... Eze Chima is not the only story...... Besides ur main question was to prove to u that Benin ruled The Igbos... And I've shown u already... Ezechima story along with Azikiwe all showed that the Igbo people was once under the Benin kingdom.

What other story? And for Pete's sake, don't say Olaudah's.

.

U are diverting from the topic... Ur first claim was to prove that Benin ruled Igbos.. Ezechima as an Igbo migrated to onicha from Benin is more than proof that Benin had Igbos under their Kingdom .. Lemme use this analogy for u,... A Nigerian migrates out of the country and settles in Europe.. and becomes a citizen there... But even tho he's a citizen of that place.. He knows that he originated from or was born in Nigeria and was ruled by Nigerians even tho he's no longer there.. That was what ezechima did... He migrated from Benin to onicha and became a citizen there but his origin is clearly Benin.

Do you even realise how rambling this section of your comment is? At first you said Ezechime was an Igbo living in Benin; towards the end tou said his origin is Benin. Which is it? Again, moving from point A and settling in point B doesn't mean point B is under the political control of point A. Sheesh. Onitsha was independent of Benin. Kingdoms in Anioma, like Ubulu-Uku, Issele-Uku, etc were indeed under Benin control and their obis went to Benin to obtain the ada upon ascension to the throne and to obtain the oba's approval. Onitsha never did that, neither did any community in the southeast.

lol... Even tho onicha wasn't exclusively under Benin kingdom, some parts of South East was and that was what Olaudah Equaino specified on his biography

False, sir. Do you believe the kingdom of Abyssinia shares a border with Benin? Do you? Olaudah also said that. Since you trust his accuracy so much, let's also go and tell the world how Benin and Ethiopia were neighbours in the 18th century.

Very hilarious... Why don't u venture into comedy?... According to his memoir, he stated he was born in Essaka and kidnapped into slavery... If he was born in South Carolina according to some third party claims, then tell me how he was able to know that he was being captured into slavery
Given the time he lived and the way information was not common, how was he able to write in his memoir that he was born in Essaka(an unknown town)in the kingdom of Benin
How was he able to write in his own autobiography that he was kidnapped when the adults went to farm?

The idea that Olaudah was born in S Carolina is not a third party claim. Olaudah himself used to tell people that he was born in S Carolina. And there's documentation supporting the claim. Now am I saying he was born in S Carolina? No. All I'm saying is there's too much uncertainty surrounding his birthplace. This same Olaudah in another letter he wrote said he was born in a place called Elese. Which was it: Essaka, Elese or S Carolina? This is the writer on whom you're building your entire thesis that Benin ruled the southeast on, someone that couldn't get the story of his birthplace straight?

There is no actual report that he was born in achaka in delta state... Stop bringing beer parlour talk here... Most historians say he was born in present day isseke... Can those who claim achaka be brave enough to prove it?
Using ur logic, there are still some people that believe that Trump won the US election. Should we now say they are correct even when they can't prove it... I actually wonder how u reason... I don't know abt Achebe report on isseke.. but there are reports of where he was born being called isseke... See the pic below

Who are the many historians that say he was born in Isseke? Besides Acholonu name one prominent historian that says he was born in Isseke. Fact: No historian worth his salt will beat his chest and say he knows exactly where Essaka is.

Lastly so according to you, someone who was present in the 18th century is lying abt his history but you That is born prolly late last century or early this century is Correct... Wel done ooo OmniKnowest ...Its u that

When there are holes in that 18th century writer's story, smart people from the 21st century will treat it with caution.

Well since u think that Olaudah is lieing, I dare u to bring a contradictory account that says that part of South East wasn't under Benin as at 18th century?

The bolded is by far the stupidest thing you've said yet. Clearly demonstrates you don't understand the concept of 'burden of proof'. How the heck does one prove a negative?

The pic below is a work from P Edwards who scrutinised and concluded that Essaka was actually isseke... Stop bringing beer parlour talks here

False again. This is Acholonu's position (as can be clearly seen by anyome who has eyes), and not Edwards. Edwards was even one of those who believed Olaudah came from Anioma.

TAO11:
cc: @Afam4eva, @macof, @RedboneSmith, @Juliusmalema

Notice yourself how you have desperately resorted to fraud.

You attempted a similar fraud with me yesterday where you had ripped off a 21st century internet publication wherein the author’s own wording uses "oba" in relation to the Benin monarch.

You tried desperately to pass off the fraudulently to the unsuspecting reader as if that specific wording was coming directly as a quotation from the 1800s.

Your modus operandi has remained the same even today despite the disgrace you were made to face for a similar act yesterday. What’s even more disgraceful for you is how you mindlessly also lift off and paste the author’s listed bibliography just in order that you may fraudulently pass off the authour’s own wording as something you quoted from one of those listed reference. You are such a disgrace. I spit on you!

Anyways, just like I disgraced you for such a fraudulent attempt yesterday, I will doing so again even now — and I’m convinced that the readers who used to be unsuspecting are now very wary and cautious of your unrelenting fraudulent modus operandi.

In any case, the wording "oba" is simply not used for "Overami" (Ovoranmwen) anywhere in the actual transcript. The attachment below shows a screenshot of the actual transcript without the word “oba” for your monarch.

—————
PS insertion for the fair readers:

Do a comparison of the actual text of this transcript (as attached here) and the wordings he attempted to fraudulently pass off as the transcript to notice how the author of the 21st century internet publication he was lifting from was simply not b]quoting from the transcript , but was paraphrasing using his own preferred wordings.

You can't choose and pick which account that suits you. I provided about 22 references that reported the trial/events and as you can seen, several people reported on the trial. You have only provided one report without citing your sources.

Are you now claiming that Oba Ovonramwen was also not oba in the 1897, after earlier stating that you are not disputing that Benin used the word Oba in the 1800s Make up your mind. Haven't agreed that there are documented evidence that referenced oba of Benin in th 1800s, I was expecting you to demand for 1700s and earlier and stop trying to be clever by half.

After admitting that there are documented evidence of Benin using the word Oba in the 1800s, there was really no need to then supply you documented evidence for what you already admitted to. I only did it because of those you are trying to Deceive.

TAO11:


Just to be clear on the point I’ve been making so far on this thread so I am not misconstrued:

(1) I haven’t claimed that “oba” was never used by the Binis until the 1900s.

(2) I haven’t claimed that there is no 1800s writing which uses the word “oba” arguably in relation to Benin monarchy — although none of them is yet able to provide any such writing.

samuk:
[s]You can't choose and pick which account that suits you. I provided about 22 references that reported the trial and as you can seen, several people reported on the trial. You have only provided one report without citing your sources.

Are you now claiming that Oba Ovonramwen was also not oba in the 1800s, after earlier stating that you are not disputing that Benin used the word Oba in the 1800s. Make up your mind. Haven't agreed that there are documented evidence that referenced oba of Benin in th 1800s, I was expecting you to demand for 1700s and earlier and stop trying to be clever by half[/s]

Lol! 22 references? How can a human being be this dumb? This is impossible!

Anyways, what you must be demonstrating actually is that the specific wordings used by the blog (from which you’ve simply lifted the bibliography listing mindlessly) was in fact a quotation from the actual account of the trial.

But not to worry, I have already attached the verbatim 1897 account of the trial, and it does not use the word “oba” for “Overami” (Ovonramwen).

See the attached screenshot (showing a verbatim reproduction in H. L. Roth’s publication) one more time in case there was some seeing problem the first time.

Go try harder! Lol!

cc: Afam4eva, macof, RedboneSmith, Juilusmalema, scholes0



—————————————
PS:

You wrote:

After admitting that there are documented evidence of Benin using the word Oba in the 1800s, there was really no need to then supply you documented evidence for what you already admitted to. I only did it because of those you trying to Deceive

Firstly, you haven’t provided even an atom of pre-1900 written evidence anywhere.

Secondly, the following is a word-for-word reproduction of my earlier comment on the previous page in specific reply to your foregoing ignorant cop-out :

“ The information I’m about to share below is on one hand an enlightening insight into a remark of possibility which I had made earlier on.

On another hand, it would serve as a source of despair and depression to our Benin clown-in-chiefs who may have thought that they had some hope of finding the evidence required to meet the unwarranted burden of proof which they’ve placed on themselves and on each other.

While I was explicitly clarifying my position earlier on, I did make an exegetic remark of possibility along the following lines that:

I personally know of a writing from the 1800s which shows the word “oba” in such a context that one MAY POSSIBLY contend that the kingdom associated with this “oba” is Benin — even though the kingdom named in this writing is neither “Benin” nor any of its different alternative renderings/names.

On a closer look at the relevant text of this 19th century writing, and in the light of an allied text found in a different and more early 19th century writing; the former position — that “one MAY POSSIBLY” take the named kingdom to be Benin — can no longer be sustained.

The possibility (of interpreting the named kingdom as “Benin” ) dissipates instantaneously in the light of the aforementioned insights.

In fact, the understanding which becomes palpably perceptible from examining the named kingdom in the light of the information found in the more early text is that: not only is the said kingdom NOT Benin, it is in fact one of the kingdoms of the Yorubas.

So, on this note the quite relaxed burden which I have been consistently and repeatedly reiterating to our Benin clown-in-chiefs becomes even more stringent going forward, as follows:

You clowns must provide us with any writing (from the 1800s, the 1700s, the 1600s, the 1500s, or the 1400s, etc.) which shows the word “oba” in relation to the Benin monarchy.

Or to be even more specific, any writing (from the 1800s, the 1700s, the 1600s, the 1500s, or the 1400s, etc.) which names a Benin monarch and describes him as “Oba”.

Peace! ”

Reference: https://www.nairaland.com/6234931/why-ikwerres-not-igbo-logic/6#96270063

TAO11:
LMAO!

First of all, your reply (despite a torturous search) fails to support your claim.

Rather than support your claim, you instead committed a logical fallacy — particularly “argumentum ex silentio”.

In other words, I can’t see it there, hence the Yorubas didn’t use it. Lol.

Turning the tables may help you see your logical fallacy even more clearly:

The traditional royal title of Benin kings, viz. “Omonoba” does not appear in that same listing you provided.

Does this then imply that this particular traditional Bini royal title was made up post 1938 — alluding to your own interesting logic? Lol.

In sum, you have simply borne testament, so far, to your failure to substantiate your bogus claim that Yoruba rulers do not use “oba” until in the 1900s.

Having demonstrated the logical fallacy of your intended argument, the following quotations show some pre-1900 statements which feature the word ”oba” for Yoruba traditional rulers:

Quoting word-for-word from Reverend Samuel Johnson’s magnum opus, the following are a few (four) examples of such use among the Yorubas:

(i) ”Several points of similarity may be noted between the ALAFIN and his Basorun. The ALAFIN is Oba (a king), he is Iba (a lord)." ~ p.71.

(ii) "From this incident, King ABIPA was nick-named Oba M'oro (the King who caught ghosts)." ~ p.166.

(iii) "And this has passed into proverb, "Oku dede ki a ko iwi wo Akesan, Oba Jayin te ori gba aso". (At the approach to Akesan of a company of chanting Eguguns, King JAYIN buried his head in a shroud.) Used of one who anticipates the inevitable." ~ p.171.

(iv) "Oaths were no more taken in the name of the gods, who were now considered too lenient and indifferent; but rather in the name of the King [i.e. King AOLE himself] who was more dreaded. "Ida Oba ni yio je mi" (may the King's sword destroy me) was the new form of oath!" ~ p.188.

Reference: Samuel Johnson, "The History of the Yorubas", Completed 1897, Published 1921.


cc: RuggedSniper, macof, LegendHero, MetaPhysical, BabaRamota1980 Afam4eva

Youre manipulative i never read this before i know it will be scrap

Why would you quote me a yoruba author who knew that attaching the word oba to yoruba kings it would help his book to sell



As for the french Elisée Reclus & A. H. Keane; “The earth and Its Inhabitants", Vol. 12, Published 1882, p.265



I check the reference and there was nothing there relating to any yoruba

If you're talking about the revised version rewriting in 1899, then you must be joking

First of all at 1899 all yorubas already knew how powerful the word oba was if use to adress themselves and elisee Reclus probably even have the demited book of Samuel
Johnson to have been able to call yoruba kings obba



My stance remains that before samuel johson wrote his demitted book history of yorubas
No yoruba used the word oba as a generic term for yoruba kings and before 1930 before it became officially used


I would burst your bubble do you know why samuel johson did a way with many general words for king in Yorubaland like olu, deji, kaybeyesi, because he knew those words wont sell if it was writing it to the Europeans unlike when he used the word OBA which is more recognized to the Europeans

I would bet that at the time samuel johson wrote that book the word oba was not even know to oyo people, unlike the eastern yorubas who used the words because of influence from benins the original owner of the word , samuel johnson he only got to know the word oba because he was educated and had read books written by Europeans on the oba of benin


Afam4eva do you know that yorubas have so many words they could adopt for a generic term for king names like
1) olu= we get them in titles like olu of ibadan, olu of warri
2) deji= deji of akure,
3= owa=Owatapa of Itapa Ekiti, Owatapa of Itapa Ekiti,

Then we have kabeyesi= meaning royal highness

Yet they decided to choose the word oba

The question is which title originally bore the word oba amongst the yoruba kings before 1930 apart from the oba of beni., you will see its none

If you doubt me bring a source older than 1897


Please lets see the original copy of elisee reculus
Before the translation if she used the word obba in an original text

RedboneSmith

AreaFada2
Sarah20A
Valirex
Ghostwon
AreaFada2
Sarah20A
Etinosa1234
Etrusen

RedboneSmith:


What other story? And for Pete's sake, don't say Olaudah's.

Are u feigning blindness... Didn't u see me mention Azikiwe biography?
.

Do you even realise how rambling this section of your comment is? At first you said Ezechime was an Igbo living in Benin; towards the end tou said his origin is Benin. Which is it? Again, moving from point A and settling in point B doesn't mean point B is under the political control of point A. Sheesh. Onitsha was independent of Benin. Kingdoms in Anioma, like Ubulu-Uku, Issele-Uku, etc were indeed under Benin control and their obis went to Benin to obtain the ada upon ascension to the throne and to obtain the oba's approval. Onitsha never did that, neither did any community in the southeast.

The main point is that some how he migrated from Benin which u have agreed to here

The story goes that Ezechime had a spat with the Oba and took his followers and fled east. Note: Ezechime fled east, across the Niger, away from territory under the oba.

So automatically u agree that Onitsha inhabitants migrated from Benin.

False, sir. Do you believe the kingdom of Abyssinia shares a border with Benin? Do you? Olaudah also said that. Since you trust his accuracy so much, let's also go and tell the world how Benin and Ethiopia were neighbours in the 18th century.

U are just saying nonsense here... U are comparing personal history to knowledge of world boundaries... How low will u sink after this?... So u want to compare the way information is to the one of 1750s... .. The fact that u hold that little piece of error with utmost importance shows ur desperation to say that he was false..... There are young Nigerians who dont know what countries Nigeria border... Will u trash down their personal history because of that?

Agreed he made a mistake on the Benin boundaries but that doesn't make his work abt his birth and growing up false... U can't say that's enough to say his history is a lie... Even top philosophers made errors which were later corrected, did that mean that their work was completely false?
No!!!!..
Until u can prove that Olaudah personal history is a lie, then stop saying what u aint sure of..

The idea that Olaudah was born in S Carolina is not a third party claim. Olaudah himself used to tell people that he was born in S Carolina. And there's documentation supporting the claim. Now am I saying he was born in S Carolina? No. All I'm saying is there's too much uncertainty surrounding his birthplace. This same Olaudah in another letter he wrote said he was born in a place called Elese. Which was it: Essaka, Elese or S Carolina? This is the writer on whom you're building your entire thesis that Benin ruled the southeast on, someone that couldn't get the story of his birthplace straight?

Clearly u are typing this from the beer parlour... Olaudah in his biography never said that he was born in Carolina, he was only baptised there.....

Here u are lying shamelessly ... Kindly provide me proof that Olaudah claimed he was born in elese?

Bro... I guess u are the only confused one here... Olaudah in the only biography he wrote said that he was born in Essaka... The word Carolina was used only once in his Biography and that was when he was with his master on a ship... If Olaudah never claimed to have been born in Carolina or elese but specifically issaka... Then what basis do u have?

A third party? Hilarious nigga...

Who are the many historians that say he was born in Isseke? Besides Acholonu name one prominent historian that says he was born in Isseke. Fact: No historian worth his salt will beat his chest and say he knows exactly where Essaka is.

First of all,learn to understand English... I said most meaning atleast majority of the historians that decided to research on thia
The pic below is an academic journal from Friday Onyeoziri where he states that Olaudah was born in present day eastern Nigeria

The fact that u chest beat says a lot abt ue reasoning...
Let me show u some sites that say Essaka is isseke
https://findanyanswer.com/where-is-essaka-located

https://www.bbc.com/pidgin/world-41629099

. Can u provide me one account that say that Olaudah was born in Delta... Just One...

If an Igbo historian acholonu could come out after much research to say that Essaka is isseke... Then what basis do u have?

When there are holes in that 18th century writer's story, smart people from the 21st century will treat it with caution.

So tell me, what are the holes? Because he erroneously said that Benin borders Abyssinia.. Even top historian never argued abt such because they know it was due to misinformation as at that time...... Even Isaac Newton made errors in his own philosophy but people Still respect his work..... There are some Americans who think Africa is a country... There are some Africans who think Europe is a country... Does that make their life false?

So can u prove that Olaudah was not of Igbo origin

The bolded is by far the stupidest thing you've said yet. Clearly demonstrates you don't understand the concept of 'burden of proof'. How the heck does one prove a negative?

U seem to be deceiving ur self... Olaudah biography claims that he was Igbo under the Benin kingdom.. u said it's a lie... Then the burden of proof lies on u to proof otherwise...

Is it that hard for u to understand?

False again. This is Acholonu's position (as can be clearly seen by anyome who has eyes), and not Edwards. Edwards was even one of those who believed Olaudah came from Anioma.

Once again, another baseless claims ... Please show me where Edward said so... I wanna learn ...

Acholonu made her research based on the claims that Achebe made... She found out that it's most likely true that Olaudah is from South East... What claims do u have to prove that acholonu was wrong

TAO11:
Given the fact that unlike you I ain’t a dummy, I wouldn’t therefore commit the “argumentum ex silentio” logical fallacy —assuming you know what that means in the first place.

It is you who made written evidence as your be all and end all, and I have provided you with the type of evidence you requested (even though I am not obliged to provide that type of evidence) — thus debunking your delusion on the Yoruba use of “oba”.

So, save the distractive tactic for another day. Today, you are obliged to live up to your own set standard by providing the written evidence as requested below:

Provide us with any writing (from the 1800s, the 1700s, the 1600s, the 1500s, or the 1400s, etc.) which shows the word “oba” in relation to the Benin monarchy.

Or to be even more specific, any writing (from the 1800s, the 1700s, the 1600s, the 1500s, or the 1400s, etc.) which names a Benin monarch and describes him as “Oba”.

cc: Adam4eva
———————
PS: I am glad that your vice Benin Clown-In-Chief (i.e. gregyboy AKA Edeyoung) noticed your dishonest about-face and then smacked your dry ass for a being such a little liar.

This may be seen in the attached screenshot below:

You had temerity to quote samuel johnson work for me madlady


To prove a point of oba ownership when you know samuel johnson was a retard

Afam4eva



Samuel johnson is the first yoruba historian who happened to be educated in uk, he was taken as slave from oyo on his arrival to oyo he wrote the first book on yoruba history

He was the first man to unite all yorubas into one
Geneoglogy oduduwa, he was the first person to also use the term oba as a generic word for yoruba kings he did thess to also sell his book because the Europeans at then knew only oba as kingship titles


He made all the general things you see in Yoruba today possible

Etinosa1234:

Are u feigning blindness... Didn't u see me mention Azikiwe biography?
.





The main point is that some how he migrated from Benin which u have agreed to here

So automatically u agree that Onitsha inhabitants migrated from Benin.







U are just saying nonsense here... U are comparing personal history to knowledge of world boundaries... How low will u sink after this?... So u want to compare the way information is to the one of 1750s... .. The fact that u hold that little piece of error with utmost importance shows ur desperation to say that he was false..... There are young Nigerians who dont know what countries Nigeria border... Will u trash down their personal history because of that?

Agreed he made a mistake on the Benin boundaries but that doesn't make his work abt his birth and growing up false... U can't say that's enough to say his history is a lie... Even top philosophers made errors which were later corrected, did that mean that their work was completely false?
No!!!!..
Until u can prove that Olaudah personal history is a lie, then stop saying what u aint sure of..






Clearly u are typing this from the beer parlour... Olaudah in his biography never said that he was born in Carolina, he was only baptised there.....

Here u are lying shamelessly ... Kindly provide me proof that Olaudah claimed he was born in elese?

Bro... I guess u are the only confused one here... Olaudah in the only biography he wrote said that he was born in Essaka... The word Carolina was used only once in his Biography and that was when he was with his master on a ship... If Olaudah never claimed to have been born in Carolina or elese but specifically issaka... Then what basis do u have?

A third party? Hilarious nigga...




The pic below is an academic journal from Friday Onyeoziri where he states that Olaudah was born in present day eastern Nigeria

The fact that u chest beat says a lot abt ue reasoning...
Let me show u some sites that say Essaka is isseke
https://findanyanswer.com/where-is-essaka-located

https://www.bbc.com/pidgin/world-41629099

. Can u provide me one account that say that Olaudah was born in Delta... Just One...

If an Igbo historian acholonu could come out after much research to say that Essaka is isseke... Then what basis do u have?



So tell me, what are the holes? Because he erroneously said that Benin borders Abyssinia.. Even top historian never argued abt such because they know it was due to misinformation as at that time...... Even Isaac Newton made errors in his own philosophy but people Still respect his work...

So can u prove that Olaudah was not of Igbo origin




U seem to be deceiving ur self... Olaudah biography claims that he was Igbo under the Benin kingdom.. u said it's a lie... Then the burden of proof lies on u to proof otherwise...

Is it that hard for u to understand?




Once again, another baseless claims ... Please show me where Edward said so... I wanna learn ...

Acholonu made her research based on the claims that Achebe made... She found out that it's most likely true that Olaudah is from South East... What claims do u have to prove otherwise?

Stop all these nonsense. You are a yoruba man, trash your history will tao11 and leave 11 year old boy who doesn't who his left from his right.


Someone who wrote that bini shares border with ethiopia...Lol

na who u go believe......


abeg face the real bini history with tao11

RedboneSmith:


What other story? And for Pete's sake, don't say Olaudah's.

.



Do you even realise how rambling this section of your comment is? At first you said Ezechime was an Igbo living in Benin; towards the end tou said his origin is Benin. Which is it? Again, moving from point A and settling in point B doesn't mean point B is under the political control of point A. Sheesh. Onitsha was independent of Benin. Kingdoms in Anioma, like Ubulu-Uku, Issele-Uku, etc were indeed under Benin control and their obis went to Benin to obtain the ada upon ascension to the throne and to obtain the oba's approval. Onitsha never did that, neither did any community in the southeast.





False, sir. Do you believe the kingdom of Abyssinia shares a border with Benin? Do you? Olaudah also said that. Since you trust his accuracy so much, let's also go and tell the world how Benin and Ethiopia were neighbours in the 18th century.





The idea that Olaudah was born in S Carolina is not a third party claim. Olaudah himself used to tell people that he was born in S Carolina. And there's documentation supporting the claim. Now am I saying he was born in S Carolina? No. All I'm saying is there's too much uncertainty surrounding his birthplace. This same Olaudah in another letter he wrote said he was born in a place called Elese. Which was it: Essaka, Elese or S Carolina? This is the writer on whom you're building your entire thesis that Benin ruled the southeast on, someone that couldn't get the story of his birthplace straight?



Who are the many historians that say he was born in Isseke? Besides Acholonu name one prominent historian that says he was born in Isseke. Fact: No historian worth his salt will beat his chest and say he knows exactly where Essaka is.



When there are holes in that 18th century writer's story, smart people from the 21st century will treat it with caution.



The bolded is by far the stupidest thing you've said yet. Clearly demonstrates you don't understand the concept of 'burden of proof'. How the heck does one prove a negative?



False again. This is Acholonu's position (as can be clearly seen by anyome who has eyes), and not Edwards. Edwards was even one of those who believed Olaudah came from Anioma.

Guy, why are you trying to deny Olaudah Equiano his Igbo heritage because he said that Benin rule over Igbo land was nominal. What would you have done if you had come from eastern Yoruba that had it worst, are you not aware that several of their traditional rulers got beheaded by Benin army, sometimes for minor infractions as disrespecting a Benin citizen? TAO11 Ijebu even got it terribly bad, the reason she has devoted herself to always rubbish Benin history whenever she can't twist and steal it for the Yoruba.

Benin lord it all over everyone, from east, west to middle belt, it's nothing to be ashamed about. They were a formidable force of their time. All that are history now.

Juliusmalema:
Stop all these nonsense. You are a yoruba man, trash your history will tao11 and leave 11 year old boy who doesn't who his left from his right.


Someone who wrote that bini shares border with ethiopia...Lol

na who u go believe......


abeg face the real bini history with tao11

Haha!

Stop it oo, before Benin people transfer aggression.

Anyways, it is very refreshing and interesting to notice how everyone is now better informed on who, in fact, originally owns the word “oba” (for the monarch) going by my logical standard of linguistic evidence as demonstrated in red ink within my comment found here. (Click it!)

Or even going by their own inane fallacious ‘logic’ of seeking written evidence of the word in pre-1900 Yoruba royal usage as against its shocking (for them) absence in any written pre-1900 Benin royal usage.

cc: Afam4eva, RedboneSmith, macof, scholes0

Unfortunately, you can't just wish away the over 400 years of Benin subjugation of Yoruba.

The relationship between Benin and Yoruba was that of colonial master and subject, the Igbo shouldn't get it confused.

There is not Benin/Ife relationship. The fallacy was created in 1800s,nothing before then in Benin history. Those that have contrary views can provide evidence.

The Benin and Yoruba people are different people.

samuk:
[s]Unfortunately, you can't just wish away the over 400 years of Benin subjugation of Yoruba.

The relationship between Benin and Yoruba was that of colonial master and subject, the Igbo shouldn't get it confused.

There is not Benin/Ife relationship. The fallacy was created in 1800s, before then in Benin history. Those that have contrary views can provide evidence.

The Benin and Yoruba people are different people[/s]

Distractive Super Story!

Everyone is waiting for your Benin evidence of the actual “oba” issue at hand — in line with your claims.

cc: Afam4eva, RedboneSmith, macof, scholes0, juliusmalema


———————————
PS on the distractive comment about the “Ife-Benin Connection” of which you all have lately chosen to live in denial:

See the first screenshot below one more time, and go figure what your king was doing in ancient Ife’s archaeological deposit — especially in an interesting site.

~ This screenshot is taken from:
S.P. Blier, “Art and Risk in Ancient Yoruba: Ife History, Power, and Identity, c. 1300”, Cambridge University Press, 2015, p.213.

A free full-access digital copy of this work is not readily available online as of yet, only a free preview copy with limited content is currently available online.
.
.
.
See also the two following screenshots of an ancient Ife’s early terra-cotta head produced obviously in the ‘Benin style’, and come tell us more about how the ancient connection never existed. Lol!

~ These screenshots are taken from:
[url=https://collections.si.edu/search/results.htm?q=%22Ife+terracottas%22]The Smithsonian Institution’s Online Collections[/url].
Click it!

These two images of a terra-cotta head (among others) — as well as images of some popular ancient Ife ‘bronze’ heads — all entered into this institution’s collections sometimes between 1981 and 1994.

TAO11:


You seem to be expecting too much from a clown. Lol.

On the second or third page of this thread, I did provide more evidence like “Oba Jayin” and “Oba M’ Oro”, among others — cited from S. Johnson’s work which was evidently completed in 1897.

I also cited “Dom Obá II” — an epithet of the Afro-Brazilian grandson of the then Alaafin Oyo, Cândido da Fonseca Galvão (1845 — 1890).

Moreover, Bishop Samuel Ajayi Crowther’s 1884 Yoruba translation of the Bible is littered with “oba” for “king”.

In fact, a 1666 French translation of a Coptic text which Cheikh Anta Diop cites in his “African Origin of Civilization” is shown to have retained the original “Obba” for “King” in relation to a certain king Chango said to be born in Ife.

Yet, we are still waiting to see just one pre-1900 writing showing the Binis’ use of “oba” for their monarch.

Inferiority complex is a terrible thing!

Can we see the bolded the original version before the translation and when did the translation take place, please if you're not presenting the original version along side the translation then dont present it as prove


RedboneSmith

Edeyoung:




Youre manipulative i never read this before i know it will be scrap

Why would you quote me a yoruba author who knew that attaching the word oba to yoruba kings it would help his book to sell



As for the french Elisée Reclus & A. H. Keane; “The earth and Its Inhabitants", Vol. 12, Published 1882, p.265



I check the reference and there was nothing there relating to any yoruba

If you're talking about the revised version rewriting in 1899, then you must be joking

First of all at 1899 all yorubas already knew how powerful the word oba was if use to adress themselves and elisee Reclus probably even have the demited book of Samuel
Johnson to have been able to call yoruba kings obba



My stance remains that before samuel johson wrote his demitted book history of yorubas
No yoruba used the word oba as a generic term for yoruba kings and before 1930 before it became officially used


I would burst your bubble do you know why samuel johson did a way with many general words for king in Yorubaland like olu, deji, kaybeyesi, because he knew those words wont sell if it was writing it to the Europeans unlike when he used the word OBA which is more recognized to the Europeans

I would bet that at the time samuel johson wrote that book the word oba was not even know to oyo people, unlike the eastern yorubas who used the words because of influence from benins the original owner of the word , samuel johnson he only got to know the word oba because he was educated and had read books written by Europeans on the oba of benin


Afam4eva do you know that yorubas have so many words they could adopt for a generic term for king names like
1) olu= we get them in titles like olu of ibadan, olu of warri
2) deji= deji of akure,
3= owa=Owatapa of Itapa Ekiti, Owatapa of Itapa Ekiti,

Then we have kabeyesi= meaning royal highness

Yet they decided to choose the word oba

The question is which title originally bore the word oba amongst the yoruba kings before 1930 apart from the oba of beni., you will see its none

If you doubt me bring a source older than 1897


Please lets see the original copy of elisee reculus
Before the translation if she used the word obba in an original text

RedboneSmith

AreaFada2
Sarah20A
Valirex
Ghostwon
AreaFada2
Sarah20A
Etinosa1234
Etrusen

Bro you're too much, keep winning bro

RedboneSmith:


The word was first listed in 1900-5, yet we have all these evidence from at least the 1850s of its use in Yorubaland. I see.

Were in 1850 young man please reevaluate before you start making and beliving false claims

RedboneSmith:


The word was first listed in 1900-5, yet we have all these evidence from at least the 1850s of its use in Yorubaland. I see.

The question you should be asking is what was the king of benin called,

As we can see the Europeans probably replace his title omo noba nedo ukwakpolopolo as king in their writeup that does not mean he wasnt called oba


Or the name was not in use, if his title wasnt oba of benin why didnt they put the his title there if he was called something else,


Probably during the translation of the original text to the English that his titles were removed

Or probably they always skipled his tiitles and replaced it with king......


But one thing i know and i stand with his benin-ife connection was a lie

Afam4eva RedboneSmith TAO11

TAO11:
The word used by other Edo-speaking monarch’s for “king” all appear to be around the Edo root-word “ogie” — “king”.

Many words deriving from this root-word are used by the Edos and allied-people for “king” till date. Consider the following examples:

(1) “Ogiso” (from: “ogie-iso” — meaning: the “king from the sky” ).

Historically, this was the epithet used by the Edo supreme rulers in their first dynasty prior to their shift and adoption of “Oba” from the beginning of their second dynasty.


(2) “Ogiamien” (the “king of the [Edo] country” ).

Historically, this was the epithet used by the Edo regents during the intermediate period (interregnum) between the first dynasty and the second dynasty.

Till date, the “Ogiamien” royal family line still survives in Benin. They insist, till date, that the present ruling royal family of Benin (i.e. “Oba” ) is a foreign non-Bini lineage which they insist has its patrilineal roots in Ile-Ife.

(3) “Ogiame” (from “ogie-ame“ — meaning: the “king over the waters” ).

Till date, the personal names of Itsekiri kings are formally prefixed by the word “ogiame” by virtue of their connection to the monarchy of Benin.

(4) The following are some other derived words from “ogie” which are used by many Edo-related monarchies (such as Urhobo, et al.) around today’s South-South Nigeria: “Enogie”, “Ovie”, “Onojie”, “Orodje”, et al.

—————
And I’m certain that you’re aware that I never claimed anywhere that Europeans visited Africa prior to the second Benin dynasty. Lol.

Benin never had a second dynasty it was only obe dynasty, the oba dynasty

samuk:


See damage control, madam lecturer is already warning her fans and students ahead of time. Teacher, you are right on this occasion, no one will be so dumb to make such claims you are now disclaiming.

I can see some disappointments amongst our Igbo and Yoruba readers. You know sooner or later Benin historical documents will surface with the title Oba. I won't be surprised if you have already seen them because of your fascination with Benin history, hence this disclaimer of I didn't claim this and that.

People, I hope you have all heard her, she didn't claim or dispute that Benin had Oba in the 1800s and 1900s. She just wants us to give her the 1700s to the 1500s Benin written history to add to her archives.

You see why I advised Afam4eva not to conclude yet.

Poor ReboneSmith and macof, they must be scratching their heads now

Lol, i will surely bring out now or few months time and when it is out what would they now do


My ascertion would still remain

Benin and ife never had connection
Yoruba borrow the word oba from benin

Samuel johnson was the first person to make use of the word oba as a generic term for yoruba kings inorder to give his book prestige and from then other authors followed suite

Untill 1930 till it was fully adopted by the yoruba kings to internationally elevate their stool

Juliusmalema:



Stop all these nonsense. You are a yoruba man, trash your history will tao11 and leave 11 year old boy who doesn't who his left from his right.


Someone who wrote that bini shares border with ethiopia...Lol

na who u go believe......


abeg face the real bini history with tao11

Even ur Bible has so many contradiction...but yet u are still a Christian

Lol... U are drunk...

U are quite pained that u can't even boldly counter the points raised on the Olaudah autobiography that Igbos were part of the Benin kingdom ... U are even crying that I should stop writing abt it ... Well.. the truth is there...
Igbos were once part of the Benin kingdom...


Most Onitsha inhabitants migrated from there..

.
Parts of south east was under Benin rule... If e pain , take Panadol...


When u are bold enough to disprove Olaudah account, we'll talk... Till then tell ur 11 year Olds to memorise the name of their state and country in case they get captured

Etinosa1234:


Even ur Bible has so many contradiction...but yet u are still a Christian

Lol... U are drunk...

U are quite pained that u can't even boldly counter the points raised on the Olaudah autobiography that Igbos were part of the Benin kingdom ... U are even crying that I should stop writing abt it ... Well.. the truth is there...
Igbos were once part of the Benin kingdom...


Most Onitsha inhabitants migrated from there..

.
Parts of south east was under Benin rule... If e pain , take Panadol...


When u are bold enough to disprove Olaudah account, we'll talk... Till then tell ur 11 year Olds the name of their state and country in case they get captured

Igbos were never part of any kingdom. Why not face tao11 and trash your yoruba heritage with them.

Deal with the real issues and not some kind of moonlight stories with no validity


desist of spreading false tales. it doesn't make any sense.

Juliusmalema:

[s]

Igbos were never part of any kingdom. Why not face tao11 and trash your yoruba heritage with them.

Deal with the real issues and not some kind of moonlight stories with no validity


desist of spreading false tales. it doesn't make any sense.[s]

All I see is tears... Can u boldly prove to me that Olaudah story is false?

And also prove to.me that Azikiwe was lying...

I blame the British Sha... U for nor get mind dey talk all this nonsense now

Etinosa1234:


All I see is tears... Can u boldly prove to me that Olaudah story is false?

And also prove to.me that Azikiwe was lying...

I blame the British Sha... U for nor get mind dey talk all this nonsense now

How did Bini share border with Ethiopia?..Lol

How did Azikiwe arrive at reverse history even the kings know nothing about?

There is nothing Bini could do even if british didn't come?

Bini was heavily under yoruba rule even as far as Itshekiri

All are Yoruboid groups..That's the history we know.

Juliusmalema:



How did Bini share border with Ethiopia?..Lol

All this are not proofs but since u want me to educate u... Leggo

That was the misinformation that was prolly reigning at that time... Most historians don't even debate abt it because they know that he was wrong... But still that doesn't mean that his autobiography is wrong...
Even as at now,... How many young people know the countries Nigeria border? But if they write their Autobiography and include such misinformation,will u simply conclude that they are wrong all because of just one error...

Even ur Bible and Quran has contradictions.. but still people remain loyal to it because of the many truths they find in it

How did Azikiwe arrive at reverse history even the kings know nothing about?

Which reverse history?

Azikiwe wrote about his own history... He traced his lineage according to his grandmother to Benin. If it was false, tell ur kings to come out and say that Azikiwe biography is a lie ... Its more than 25 years since he wrote it.

There is nothing Bini could do even if british didn't come?

Lol... As at when the British came, Benin was still an Empire...
Al-Jazeera published an article of the Lost Empire of Benin that was destroyed after the invasion... So u think Benin was not that powerful enough ? Lol..

Bini was heavily under yoruba rule even as far as Itshekiri

There is no proof for this... Stop crying on my mentions

All are Yoruboid groups..That's the history we know.

I'm pretty sure that u'll most likely be in secondary school for u to make this kind of lame assertion


Look at yoruboid groups below and tell me if u see any Edo group there

TAO11:
Enough of the cunning imbecilic distractions. Face your burden below:

(1) Where is the evidence for your claim that written evidence exists going back “600 years” ago showing the use of “oba” in relation to Benin monarchy??

(2) Your requested 1800s written evidence from Yoruba has been provided.

Now don’t be a hypocrite in addition to being an illiterate. You have to be man enough to meet the standard which you yourself have set.

Provide us an 1800s written document from Benin — before then substantiating your own claim of “600 years” ago.

We are waiting!
cc: Afam4eva, RedboneSmith, macof

———————
PS: Lest I forget the Ife-Benin Connection (which you’re dead-scared of), refer to the attached screenshot of an archaeological evidence of a ‘bronze’ plaque depicting your Oba. It was recovered from an old slave-quarters at Ife.

Haha TAO11 you make me laff supply me the link were they found that sculpture in ife

Am waiting