TAO12:
I intentionally didn’t ask any of you to show me around. I specifically said recommend someone.

Oh I must add that the person must be a driver.

See them in Benin city in December.

Ok

To those whom are actually interested in history, don't worry, I haven't forgotten you. yoruba trolls and backstabbing narcissists who "want to be governor" (not a chance in hell) will not deter me from doing some research and exposing more history regardless of whose false biggotted narrative it hurts.

Areafada, Etinosa, Samuk, Davidnazee.
Don't trust people on nairaland.

Truthvalue:
[s]To those whom are actually interested in history, don't worry, I haven't forgotten you. yoruba trolls and backstabbing narcissists who "want to be governor" (not a chance in hell) will not deter me from doing some research and exposing more history regardless of whose false biggotted narrative it hurts.

Areafada, Etinosa, Samuk, Davidnazee.
Don't trust people on nairaland.[/s]

IF anyone agrees with you (baldie), THEN such person is good.

But IF anyone disagrees with (/debunks) baldie, then such person is a BaCkStAbBiNg nArCiSSiSt or a tRoLl. A classic case of searching for yourself in others. LMAO

Bald head, for how long shall you continue character assassination, intimidation, emotional black-mail, and bullying on your people because they called you out for the liar that you are??

They’ve called you out as a foolish fatuous liar with a wonderfully-low self esteem.

I have been saying it. Now it’s their turn to say it even though they don’t like to. But they eventually did.

I represent truth and confidence. You stand for lies and low-self esteem.

You know absolutely nothing. Stop parading yourself as having any knowledge of history. Instead, you are a disgrace to yourself and tho who allow themselves be deceived by your ridiculously cheap deceptions.

TAO12:
IF anyone agrees with you (baldie), THEN such person is good.

But IF anyone disagrees with (/debunks) baldie, then such person is a BaCkStAbBiNg nArCiSSiSt or a tRoLl. A classic case of searching for yourself in others. LMAO

Bald head, for how long shall you continue character assassination, intimidation, emotional black-mail, and bullying on your people because they called you out for the liar that you are??

They’ve called you out as a foolish fatuous liar with a wonderfully-low self esteem.

I have been saying it. Now it’s their turn to say it even though they don’t like to. But they eventually did.

I represent truth and confidence. You stand for lies and low-self esteem.

You know absolutely nothing. Stop parading yourself as having any knowledge of history. Instead, you are a disgrace to yourself and tho who allow themselves be deceived by your ridiculously cheap deceptions.

Tribalist

Edo is the ethnic group
Bini, esan, afemai(etsako and owan), urhobo, ika(in some cases) are the tribes,. just like in ibo, there are tribes like nsukka, onitcha etc, which would have different dialects but at the end of the day, they all see themselves as Igbo and have even adopted a universal ibo language,
But the problem here(edo) is that;
1) There is no universal language
2) An Esan (or even any edo tribe) man will call hhimself Esan before edo but the ijebu man will call himself Yoruba if you ask him if his tribe
3) the whole thing is so confusing especially to a non edoid person because "bini" is used interchangeably with "edo"

Think4Myself:
Tribalist

Tribalist ≢ a person who exposes the falseness of the strongly held, c.45 years old Benin lies.

Next time say: “Debunker”.
—————
PS: Tribalist is also cool. My foregoing point, however, is that “Debunker” applies better to the comment you quoted.

Peace!

TAO12:
Tribalist ≢ a person who exposes the falseness of strongly held, 45 years old Benin lies.

Next time say: “Debunker”.
—————
PS: Tribalist is also cool, my foregoing point is only that it doesn’t apply well to the comment you quoted.

You're right, you're not a tribalist.
You are a delusional tribalistic liar

Think4Myself:
[s]You're right, you're not a tribalist.
You are a delusional tribalistic liar[/s]

It appears that the Oba of benin has banned you Edos from making use of your brain??

Please come back here to re-read my comment when the ban is lifted.

TAO12:
It appears that the Oba of benin banned you all from using your brain??

Come back here to re-read my comment when the ban is lifted.

This sums it all up
You're nothing but a pained and bitter tribalist that hates binis and wants to deny and downplay all their achievements
I never ever said I was bini but you concluded that I was.
That shows how much you are obsessed with binis
Insecure bitter yoruba tribalist

Think4Myself:
[s]This sums it all up
You're nothing but a pained and bitter tribalist that hates binis and wants to deny and downplay all their achievements
I never ever said I was bini but you concluded that I was.
That shows how much you are obsessed with binis
Insecure bitter yoruba tribalist[/s]

You are not Bini??

Yet the Benin king’s ban [that no Edo should use their brain] also have effect on you.

How come?

TAO12:
You are not Bini??

Yet the Benin king’s ban [that no Edo should use their brain] also have effect on you.

How come?

I'm bini
But it doesn't change the fact that you're obsessed with us
I'm glad the internet isn't real cos I've met a lot of wise Yoruba people or I would have concluded that all yorubas are like you (bitter, insecure, tribalistic etc)

Your account is literally dedicated to attacking binis with lies and false claims. That's something you should think about to see that you're wasting your life over benin obsession

Think4Myself:
[s]I'm bini
But it doesn't change the fact that you're obsessed with us
I'm glad the internet isn't real cos I've met a lot of wise Yoruba people or I would have concluded that all yorubas are like you (bitter, insecure, tribalistic etc)

Your account is literally dedicated to attacking binis with lies and false claims. That's something you should think about to see that you're wasting your life over benin obsession[/s]

Okay, I knew you are a Bini at the very instant when I noticed that your brain was under lock and keys.

Anyways, do come back here to re-read that comment whenever the ban on your brain is lifted by your oba.

Oh, lest I forget. I am oBsEsSeD with debunking the strongly-held, c.45 years old Bini lies in relation to my history.

I am oBsEsSeD with debunking Bini liars. Why/how do you have a problem with that?

PS:
Guess what! Many Nairalanders (Yorubas, Igbos, et al. and including Binis lately) have confessed publicly that the overwhelming evidences have proven beyond any sane doubt that the oba of Benin is indeed an Ife man.

The Benin lies wasted just like that.

TAO12:
Okay, I knew you are a Bini at the very instant when I noticed that your brain was under lock and keys.

Anyways, do come back here to re-read that comment whenever the ban on your brain is lifted by your oba.

Oh, lest I forget. I am oBsEsSeD with debunking the strongly-held, c.45 years old Bini lies in relation to my history.

I am oBsEsSeD with debunking Bini liars. Why/how do you have a problem with that?

PS:
Guess what! Many Nairalanders (Yorubas, Igbos, at al. and including Binis lately) have confessed publicly that the overwhelming evidences have proven beyond any sane doubt that the oba of Benin is indeed an Ife man.

The Benin lies wasted just like that.

Maybe you should change your username to "bini obsessed" or "insecure youuba"
Section most active in: Any topic related to Benin/edo


I don't even know how you write these long epistles every minute if it were me I'd have been bored a long time ago. anyway seems you enjoy it, probably gives you some kind of orgasm
The only way to punish this behavior is by not responding to your posts(lies)
That's the only way you will learn

Think4Myself:
[s]Maybe you should change your username to "bini obsessed" or "insecure youuba"
Section most active in: Any topic related to Benin/edo
I don't even know how you write these long epistles every minute if it were me I'd have been bored a long time ago. anyway seems you enjoy it, probably gives you some kind of orgasm
The only way to punish this behavior is by not responding to your posts(lies)
That's the only way you will learn[/s]

I should change my moniker to BiniLiesDebunker?

Okay, I would see to that.

It gives me great joy to see that truth prevails over lies. Yes, I know the word truth is a concept alien to where you come from.

Don’t just get mad that Benin lies are been busted one at a time. Instead, say the truth and tell your people to do the same. Otherwise, you all will remain a laughing stock.

By the way, why are you mad that I am dedicated to debunking Benin lies??

Can you explain that to our readers?

You’re so into deceiving people??

And your screenshot makes sense because … ??

gregyboy:



We are aborigines, of our location, the original yorubas have been mixed with slaves from Cameroon and togo and co


Soon we will kick you guys and thr fulani off the Nigeria lands

Congratulation. Mind you, Yoruba claims aborigine and also the flood destruction in world history. How can you explain this world flooding in Edo's Ibinu-Ibini ,Igodomigodo's account ?

Meanwhile I did not make, mende,Esan,Yoruba, Gambia group related to Yoruba to share DNA of Neanderthal without Igodomigodo being mentioned.

After all, geneticists assert this information , who are white(light skin caucasians) researchers with people amongs them having racist hatred tendencies toward brown or darkskin people. So having ancestry linked to Iberomaurasia Morroco, Near East, Europe,who live in present day Africa wasn't conjured by Yorubas .

Therefore your information,learn! While using Bob Marley sons, who are of two different maternal link but same paternal. Google Ziggy Marley's son(s) and Damien Marley son(s),who are Bob Marley's grandchildren.

Kindly get a good exposure to enhance your intellectual prowess and stop self centeredness .Instead embrace fact and the truth in it which makes it true fact

The reality is that Yoruba exposed your ancestors to her own civilzation ,in which it is historically accurate that Oba Bini's Court historians stated that Prince King [b]Oranmiyan was the first man that rode on [b]horse in Igodomigodo ,turned Ibinu land[/b], who later became Àaní(ọ̀/òoní) Iléifẹ.

Below screenhot still support the Yorubas as admixture ethnic group,which was the reason, Yoruba's minute bloodline lives in some of you like the Esan group.

Benin/Ife revisited

1. Benin was first visited by the Portuguese in the 1400s.
2. Various Europeans repeatedly visited and documented Benin history from the 1400s to 1897.
3. Benin empire was destroyed by British in 1897 and the Oba deposed to Calabar.
4. Between 1400 to 1897, a period of almost 500 years, nothing, Absolutely nothing was said/mentioned about Ife in Benin history.
5. Ife, Oduduwa and Oranmiyan were never mentioned in Benin eyewitness historical accounts.
6. The foremost Yoruba linguist Ajayi Crowder was said to have been born in 1809. He was captured and enslaved.
7. He returned back and started a mission in Nigeria in 1842 and started documenting Yoruba history.
8. He died in 1891.
9. In Ajayi Crowder lifetime, 1809 to 1891, Benin had five Obas. Five Obas of Benin reigned in Ajayi Crowder lifetime.
10. Five Obas of Benin died and five coronations of Obas of Benin were held in Ajayi Crowder lifetime.
11. Ajayi Crowder never mentioned Benin in connection with Ife. There is no eyewitness or hearsay from Ajayi Crowder that Benin had any relationship with Ife during his lifetime.

Evidence put forward in support of Benin/Ife relationship by preachers of Benin/Ife relationship before 1897.

12. The only evidence shamelessly provided so far by the preachers of Benin/Ife relationship is Organe.
13 Organe was said to have been mentioned in the history of Benin in the 1500s.
14. This Organe direction was given as east of Benin. Ife is west of Benin.
15. This Organe was said to be 900 miles from Benin, Ife is about 177 miles from Benin.
15. The travelling distance from this Organe was said to be 20 months from Benin. Ife is less than a day's journey from Benin.

Questions:

1. Why will Benin have relationship with Ife for over 800 years and not a single mentioned in the eyewitness documented history of either Benin or Yoruba for almost 500 years. Why not a single mention.
2. Why did Ajayi Crowder whose lifetime saw the reigns of the last five Obas of Benin before the end of the empire in 1897 not recorded or mentioned Benin/Ife relationship in his written works. Why didn't him mention this supposed very important relationship in his brief history of Yoruba.
3. Why were there no recorded interactions between Benin and Ife for almost 500 years.

Review of Organe evidence to support Benin/Ife relationship.

1. Even if Organe was Ife, why just one mention of this supposed fictional Ife in Benin history for a period of almost 500 years of documented history.
2. Apart from this one mention, there is absolutely no any other evidence put forward that Benin had anything to do with Ife before 1897.

Conclusion

It is safe to say that there is absolutely zero evidence to support the claims of Benin/Ife relationship before 1897.

The readers can Judge for themselves.

Origin/Beginning of Benin/Ife relationship

1.

The classical (pre-1800s) connection between Father-IFE and Son-Benin is really bitting samuk hard.

See testimony from one of your honest brothers attached.

Who would have ever thought a day like this would come?

Cc: macof, nisai, gomojam, r4bbit, rhektor, scholes0,

Ogane is NOT a place. Ogane is a ruler.

TAO11:
You Benins are actually too foolish to be ignored. Ignoring you means, to you, that you’ve stated facts. Jokers.

Crowther is not a historian, he is a linguist. He didn’t write a Yoruba history book. His books are generally grammar books, dictionary, etc. being a linguist.

Although he sometimes set aside introductory notes to Yoruba creation stories as well as Oyo kingship (being from Osoogun), and this introductory notes usually takes roughly 3% of the entire pages.

A sane mind wonders then how the next thing on his mind to write about (in a books of language) would be Ife-Benin connection. You’re hoplessly delusional.

Moreover, Mr. Cyril Punch who toured Yoruba cities and was also in Benin wrote in his 1889 Journal that:

“As a town, Benin was inconsiderable compared with places like Ibadan, Iseyhin, Shaki, Modakeke, and Abeokuta. There was no wealth, nor was there even power, except the power of the influence of fetish, and the sense of the spirit of a long past of atrocities, which, if not supernatural, were at any rate unnatural to a degree which is indescribable. I remember the return of two of Miller Brothers' men from a visit they paid to Benin after I had been there. They arrived at Guatun one evening, and showed plainly in their faces the mental strain that their visit had been to them.”

As for the Ife ‘bronze’ sculptures, the quotation here (is from an academic, expert, and professional Art Historian) shows IFE on the same pedestal as Greek, Rome, and Egypt.

“[The Ife sculptures] would stand comparison with anything which Ancient Egypt, Classical Greece and Rome, or Renaissance Europe had to offer”.

~ Frank Willett, “Ife and Its Archaeology,” The Journal of African History, Vol. 1, No. 2 (1960), p. 239.

No such comparison with the great arts of the world is recorded for Benin. Show me one

——————
Regarding the father-Ife/son-Benin classic connection, refer again to the following comments for a harsh reminder (and some trauma) which you were earlier on being endowed with:

This is not true.

Eyewitness testimony/writings from the late-1400s & early-1500s which references the monarch of the Ife kingdom & his suzerainty over Benin kingdom exist.

NB: Yes, there used to be a debate in academia in the 1970s/1980s (between the mainstream scholars on one hand; and one, two, or three others on another hand) over the identity of this suzerain.

This debate was particularly on the usage of the word “east” in those early writings.

In present time, however, there is no single academic historian who holds the notion that this suzerain (of the early writings) is other than the Ooni of Ife [i.e. Ọ̀ɣọ̀ni Ufẹ̀ in the Ife dialect of the Yoruba language].

The symbol ⟨ɣ⟩ being the voiced velar fricative with its consonant sound as in this audio sample.

This conclusion is reinforced by the fact that no king, throughout the Guinea Forest of West Africa matches the specific sacral details given in those early writings, except the Ooni of Ife.

In addition to this significant fact, the debate over the word “east” was subsequently quelled by the fact that
from Atakpame (in present-day Togo) to the kingdom of Benin (in present-day Nigeria), from Èkó (next to the Atlantic Ocean) to Ọ̀yọ́-Ilé (not far from the Niger River) Ife is known by the interesting epithet: Ibi ojúmọ́ ti ń mọ́ wá — i.e. “the place from where the sun rises”.

For some written references to the widespread usage of this epithet (in reference to Ife) among the natives of this region of West Africa, please refer to:

(A) Rev. D. Hinderer, “Diary Impression,” June 4, 1851, Ibadan, C.M.S.

(B) R. Horton (1979), p. 85., citing B. Maupoil (1943), A. Akinjogbin (1967:41-43), R. Smith (1969:31), as well as A. Obayemi (1976:206).

This reverential (rather than literal) epithet of Ife informed the literalist Europeans’ writings whose source(s) are Benin spokespersons of their king.

Hence the appearance of the word “east” in the early European writings in reference to the kingdom of the Ọ̀ɣọ̀ni (who is transliterated in the early writings as “Hooguanee”, “Ogané”, etc.).

Side Note: Binis, till today, still sometimes refer to the Ooni as Oghene. Refer to the entry “ɔɣɛnɛ” (i.e. “ọghẹnẹ”) in Hans Melzian’s “A Concise Dictionary of the Bini Language of Southern Nigeria” where its second definition is given as: “Bini name for the ↄni at Ile Ife”

Moreover, another piece of historical evidence which quelled the academic debate on the word “east” (as is seen in the early writings in reference to this overlord) are early maps.

There are maps (e.g. from the early 1500s) which show the phrase Dominion of the Orguene annotated across the western half of today’s Nigeria.

These historical information leaves anyone (not only the historians) with the only logical conclusion that the appearance of the word “east” in those early writings is of course not literal.

In conclusion, contrary to your ignorant assumption, there are writings from the early 1500s (on the basis of interviews of Bini representatives in the late 1400s) which references the king of Ife & his overlordship on Benin kingdom and other places.

Apart from early writings, there are other types of historical evidence which also establish clearly that there exist a classic (i.e. pre-1800) father & son relationship between Ife & Benin respectively.

These other type of historical evidence which I come to here are classical artifacts from the hard science of archaeology. One crucial examples in this regard is discussed below.

The artifact shown in this link is the image of an Ooni of Ife. ~ S. P. Blier, “Art in Ancient Ife,” 2012, Figure 17.

The Ife naturalism of this artifact, its facial striations, as well as its classical Ife ceremonial costume and the pair of chest ornament help art historians (as well as Benin chroniclers alike) with identifying this image as an Ooni of Ife.

What is very, very crucial here is that this artifact was found in the archaeological deposits of Benin. To be more precise, it was excavated from the royal palace of Benin kingdom.

Furthermore, the production date of this artifact has now been established by science. This artifact is dated, by thermoluminescence technique, to the year 1420 [± 60 years].

~ Calvocoressi & David, “A New Survey of Radiocarbon and Thermoluminescence Dates for West Africa,” 1979, p. 19.

For more pictorial angles (and details) regarding this particular artifact, please refer to:

(A) W. Fagg, “A Bronze Figure in Ife Style at Benin,” British Museum, June 1950, Plate Fa, Fb, Fc

(B) F. Willett, “Ife in the History of West African Sculpture,” McGraw-Hill, 1967, Figure 89.

(C) C. Adepegba, “The Descent from Oduduwa,” 1986, Plate 4.

In other words, a more-than 500-year-old ‘bronze’ cast of an Ooni Ife was discovered in the (archaeological deposits of the) palace of Benin kingdom.

In conclusion, it thus becomes clear that there exists a classical (i.e. pre-1800) father & son relationship between Ife & Benin respectively.

Again, this conclusion which I have inevitably reached is not mine. This is simply the conclusion of historical scholarship. This can be seen in the following works:

A. Akinjogbin (1967), F. Willett (1973), R. C. C. Law (1973), R. Horton (1979), A. Obayemi (1980), R. Smith (1988), B. Adediran (1991), D. Bondarenko (2003), S. A. Akintoye (2010), A. Ogundiran (2020), et al.

A beautiful summary of this conclusion of scholars of
African history (some of whose names and works are listed above) is shown in the page below from Adam Knobler (2016), p.47.

Peace!

PS: (1) Omonoba (king’s child) Akenzua II visited Ooni of Ife at Ife.

Not because the Ooni was having a party, but because Akenzua himself just became Benin king.

(2) Omonoba (king’s child) Erediauwa (i.e. Akenzua II’s successor) also visited Ooni of Ife at Ife.

Not because the Ooni was having a party, but because Erediauwa himself just became Benin king.

(3) Omonoba (king’s child) Ewuare II (i.e. Erediauwa’s successor) also visited Ooni of Ife at Ife.

Not because the Ooni was having a party, but because Ewuare II himself just became Benin king.
The three of them were so humble in the presence of their father & overlord.

Who born monkey?

Cc: macof, nisai, gomojam, r4bbit, rhektor, scholes0

Olu317:
Congratulation. Mind you, Yoruba claims aborigine and also the flood destruction in world history. How can you explain this world flooding in Edo's Ibinu-Ibini ,Igodomigodo's account ?

Meanwhile I did not make, mende,Esan,Yoruba, Gambia group related to Yoruba to share DNA of Neanderthal without Igodomigodo being mentioned.

After all, geneticists assert this information , who are white(light skin caucasians) researchers with people amongs them having racist hatred tendencies toward brown or darkskin people. So having ancestry linked to Iberomaurasia Morroco, Near East, Europe,who live in present day Africa wasn't conjured by Yorubas .

Therefore your information,learn! While using Bob Marley sons, who are of two different maternal link but same paternal. Google Ziggy Marley's son(s) and Damien Marley son(s),who are Bob Marley's grandchildren.

Kindly get a good exposure to enhance your intellectual prowess and stop self centeredness .Instead embrace fact and the truth in it which makes it true fact

The reality is that Yoruba exposed your ancestors to her own civilzation ,in which it is historically accurate that Oba Bini's Court historians stated that Prince King [b]Oranmiyan was the first man that rode on [b]horse in Igodomigodo ,turned Ibinu land[/b], who later became Àaní(ọ̀/òoní) Iléifẹ.

Below screenhot still support the Yorubas as admixture ethnic group,which was the reason, Yoruba's minute bloodline lives in some of you like the Esan group.

1. Olu317 said Oduduwa, Ijebu and Yoruba people are related to middle east and Oduduwa is from the middle east Egypt/Saudi Arabia/Morocco.

2. TAO11 said Oduduwa was the native of Ife that didn't come from the middle east. She said Sultan Bello that linked Oduduwa and Yoruba people to the middle east lied.

Olu317 and TAO11 are both proud defenders of the Yoruba tribe, but do they really know the origin of their forefather Oduduwa?

Above contradicting statements and claims from these two fellows clearly shows that one or even both of them not to be telling the truth.

Olu317 and TAO11 should first resolve the origin of your supposed forefather Oduduwa before trying to shove it down the throat of the Benin.

Olu317 and TAO11 should leave the Benin out of your confusions, fairytales and myths.

Question for Olu317 and TAO11

Was Oduduwa from the middle east or a native of Ife.

samuk:
[s]1. Olu317 said Oduduwa, Ijebu and Yoruba people are related to middle east and Oduduwa is from the middle east Egypt/Saudi Arabia.

2. TAO11 said Oduduwa was the native of Ife that didn't come from the middle east. She said Sultan Bello that linked Oduduwa and Yoruba people to the middle east lied.

Olu317 and TAO11 are both proud defenders of the Yoruba tribe, but do they really know the origin of their forefather Oduduwa?

Above contradicting statements and claims from these two fellows clearly shows that one or even both of them not to be telling the truth.

Olu317 and TAO11 should first resolve the origin of your supposed forefather Oduduwa before trying to shove it down the truth of the Benin.

Question for Olu317 and TAO11

Was Oduduwa from the middle east or a native of Ife.[/s]

FACTS:
(1) Olu disagrees with TAO on the roots of Oduduwa.

(2) Olu agrees with TAO that Benin obas are Yorubas.

(3) TAO always agrees with the historical consensus.

(4) Historical consensus says Oduduwa is a Yoruba.

(5) One of samuk’s brother have now seen the light.

(6) None of these above facts helps samuk’s lies.

(6) Samuk is in deep shit.

Peace!

Cc: macof, nisai, gomojam, r4bbit, rhektor, scholes0,

TAO12:
The classical (pre-1800s) connection between Father-IFE/Son-Benin is really bitting samuk hard.

See testimony from one of your honest brothers attached.

Who would have ever thought a day like this would come?

Cc: macof, nisai, gomojam, r4bbit, rhektor, scholes0,

My dear sister please temper justice with mercy,do you know the gravity of what you are doing to this people?do you know how many year it will take them to recover from this fatality?some may take it to their grave and that's why I'm pleading on their behalf but if you insist on continue hammering them with fact and they decide to commit suicide,know that my hand no dey ooo

haffaze777:
My dear sister please temper justice with mercy,do you know the gravity of what you are doing to this people?do you know how many year it will take them to recover from this fatality?some may take it to their grave and that's why I'm pleading on their behalf but if you insist on continue hammering them with fact and they decide to commit suicide,know that my hand no dey ooo

You have a point.

But wait oo, my intention is not kill them na.

PS: Not all of them will commit suicide sha.

See the attached screenshot for instance.

TAO12:

FACTS:

(1) Olu disagrees with TAO on the roots of Oduduwa.

(2) Olu agrees with TAO that Benin obas are Yorubas.

(3) TAO always agrees with the historical consensus.

(4) Historical consensus says Oduduwa is a Yoruba.

(5) One of samuk’s brother have now seen the light.

(6) None of these above facts help samuk’s lies.

(6) Samuk is in deep shit.

Peace!

Cc: macof, nisai, gomojam, r4bbit, rhektor, scholes0,

We are getting somewhere.

Olu317, TAO11 has spoken and she believes her position that Oduduwa was originally a native of Ife is more historically right than your middle east propaganda.

The floor is yours to tell us why you disagree with TAO11 on the origin of your forefather Oduduwa. Perhaps you care to show us your DNA scientific evidence that linked Yoruba people to the middle east against TAO11 fairytale history.

You guys must first resolve the origin of your grandfathers/forefathers before trying to impose them on others.

Whilst at it, perhaps you could share more light on the odus coptus of Ifa that talked about the origin of Oduduwa.

The readers will also be interested on the story of queen of sheba being buried in Ijebu Ode.

Let me quickly go and get my popcorn......

samuk:
[s]We are getting somewhere.

Olu317 TAO11 has spoken and she believes her position that Oduduwa was originally a native of Ife is more historically right than your middle east propaganda.

The floor is yours to tell us why you disagree with TAO11 on the origin of your forefather Oduduwa. Perhaps you care to show us you DNA scientific evidence that linked Yoruba people to the middle east against TAO11 fairytale history.

Whilst at it, perhaps you could share more light on the odus coptus of Ifa that talked about the origin of Oduduwa.

The readers will also be interested on the story of queen of sheba being buried in Ijebu Ode.

Let me quickly gi and get my popcorn......[/s]

You’re trying too desperately to take the heat away from you.

(1) Historical consensus is that your oba is a Yoruba man.

(2) Historical consensus is that Oduduwa is a Yoruba man.

Focus on historians rather than on Olu or TAO.

Your grievances are well noted though.

Peace!

TAO11:
IFE is roughly about 174 miles away from Benin City.

However, the alleged distance of 900 miles is NOT mentioned anywhere in the text.

Instead, the distance between Benin and the Ogane’s place [as given in the text] is 250 leagues.

However, this number (250 leagues) wasn’t obtained (by the Portuguese) from any Bini informant. This fact is extremely clear from the text itself.

In fact, the Binis who lived in the 1400s/1500s did not measure distance in leagues, miles, etc. As such, they couldn’t have given such information.

Instead, the Binis of the 1400s, 1500s, etc. measured distance in natural terms, e.g. on the basis of celestial bodies such as the Moon, etc.

Interestingly, the distance obtained from the Binis by the Portuguese was given in terms of the Moon. This is given in the text.

The Binis informed the Portuguese that it takes twenty (20) moons journey to go from Benin city to the Ogané’s place.

It was on the basis of this received information (i.e. 20 moons journey away) that the Portuguese imagined what the distance in “leagues” should be.

The distance in leagues was NOT received from the Binis. The text is clear on this. The W/African context is also clear on this.

Having said that, the natural question now becomes:

Is this number (i.e. 20 moons journey from Benin City to the Ogane’s place) realistic for IFE if it is indeed the Ogane’s place??

In other words, could the distance from Benin City to Ile-Ife possibly have been twenty moons journey in some “traditional” terms? Let’s do the Maths on the basis of average numbers & the “traditional” context.

The data to be used for the Math is NOT on the basis of Google map’s algorithm which assumes a walking trip with zero tiredness, zero rests, zero stops, zero pauses, zero relaxations, zero camps, constant rapid pace, etc.

Instead, the data to be used is on the basis of the real life situation, average numbers, & traditional context.

Datum 1: C. G. Okojie’s “Ishan Native Laws and Customs,” p. 210. provides the first data as follows:

The walking trip from Uromi (in Ishan) to Benin City on a course of some 50 miles “traditionally” took an average of 5 months.

~ Cited in A.F.C. Ryder (1965), p.27.

Datum 2: IFE is roughly about 174 miles away from Benin City (even over the ancient Benin-Owo-Ife route).

These two data leave an answer of about 17.4 months [NOT moons] as the “traditional” walking time from Benin to Ife.

In other words, IFE is 17.4 months journey away from Benin city on the average “traditionally”.

Question: How many “moons” are 17.4 months equivalent to? To answer this, two pieces of data will be adduced.

Datum 3: It takes the Moon 27.322 days to go around the earth.

In other words, there are [exactly] about 27.322 days in one “moon”.

Datum 4: There is an average of 30.47 days in one month.

Summary:
(1) The “traditional” walking distance from Benin to Ile-Ife took an average of 17.4 months

(2) 17.4 months are equivalent to 530.178 days (i.e. 17.4 months * 30.47days per month).

(3) 530.178 days are equivalent to 19.4 moons (i.e. 530.178 days / 27.322 days per moon).

In conclusion, the facts and figures turn out to prove that the “traditional” trip from Benin city to Ile-Ife took an average of 19.4 moons.

This answer is therefore astoundingly accurate for all practical intents and purpose.

From this again, we see that Ife is indeed the place of the Ogané of the text. And the Bini informant knew exactly what he was talking about.

PS: References to this great overlord (to whom a Benin king is subservient) is documented not once, not twice, not thrice by independent Europeans, but at least five sepearate times spanning centuries prior to the 1800s.

Peace!

Cc: nisai, rhektor, r4bbit, nisiw365, lifeisgood12, macof

TAO12:

You’re trying too desperately to take the heat from away from you.

(1) Historical consensus is that your oba is a Yoruba man.

(2) Historical consensus is that Oduduwa is a Yoruba man.

Focus on historians rather than on Olu or TAO.

Your grievances are well noted though.

Peace!

You have spoken and the readers have seen your position. You must allow Olu317 his opportunity to reply to the question.

The question was for both of you and not just you.

Stop trying to prove that you and only you knows it all.

Olu317, the readers are eagerly waiting for your reply to my question on the middle east origin of Oduduwa.

You guys can't be confused about the origin of your forefather and yet trying to impose him on others.

We are waiting......

samuk:
[s]You have spoken and the readers have seen your position. You must allow Olu317 his opportunity to reply to the question.

The question was for both of you and not just you.

Stop trying to prove that you and only you knows it all.

Olu317, the readers are eagerly waiting for your reply to my question on the middle east origin of Oduduwa.

You guys can't be confused about the origin of your forefather and yet trying to impose him on others.

We are waiting......[/s]

(1) IF you’re waiting on historical consensus regarding the roots of Oduduwa, then that is obviously sensible.

And the historical consensus is that Oduduwa is from the community of Oke-Ora. This is not TAO. This is historical consensus.

(2) IF, instead, you are waiting on Olu (not historians), then you’re only exposing yourself as a huge dense & a giant disgrace.

I go with the historians. Whom do you go with, samuk? Olu I guess. LMAO!

(3) In any case, your obas are Yorubas.

~ Says TAO; says your Olu; says historical consensus.

Samuk attached!

Nobody should reply this tao12 she desperately needs the attention you give her

Think4Myself:
[s]Nobody should reply this tao12 she desperately needs the attention you give her[/s]

I am the one initiating the replies — not the other way round.

Check the records.

samuk:


We are getting somewhere.

Olu317, TAO11 has spoken and she believes her position that Oduduwa was originally a native of Ife is more historically right than your middle east propaganda.

The floor is yours to tell us why you disagree with TAO11 on the origin of your forefather Oduduwa. Perhaps you care to show us your DNA scientific evidence that linked Yoruba people to the middle east against TAO11 fairytale history.

You guys must first resolve the origin of your grandfathers/forefathers before trying to impose them on others.

Whilst at it, perhaps you could share more light on the odus coptus of Ifa that talked about the origin of Oduduwa.

The readers will also be interested on the story of queen of sheba being buried in Ijebu Ode.

Let me quickly go and get my popcorn......

Stop being ignorant. Anyway, information as this must be a puzzle for you,since your Oba in Biniland, is a descendant of Yoruba man inIleife.

On oduduwa ancestral land, remains specifically spelt as a man from YORUBA land of Ileife. While, there is an heavenly powerful being identified as the same name Oduduwa,whom was sanctioned by Eledumare to go complete the creation of earth.

You see, in Ileife, there is a saying, élù mèjè lòsi ifẹ mẹfá lọ̀tún (seven on the right while six on the left),making it thirteen set up/hamlets(13) were clearly the historcal account that usher the dynasty of Odùà as the divine king authorised by Eledumare through oduduwa the heavenly messenger.

This is well known within Yoruba scholars circle. So, there is no iota of doubt that Odua was a Yoruba man, of which I am his descent and not forgetting the fact that millions of people both caucasians as well as Colour people are descended from him.

To buttress more, there is odu Ifa-odu that states, dúdù lẹgbọn pupa láburó(darkskin is the older one while the lightskin is the younger), which is even supported by another odù Ifá that says,afin ló'ríṣa (albino or lightskin is ancestor/god).

This statement is supported in Ileife ,that assert,that some families were the ancestors of lightskin,albino or whiteskins.

Principally, the Ileife of today is not the first or the second or third.....but about the 7th or 8th,which historical account states that after the flood destruction, while Ileife at its peak was established facing Atlantic.

In summary,wherever oduduwa ancestors came from, either as within or as established elsewhere in the ancient time, remained a Yoruba man. So, Ogiso Iwodo didnt exist during odua time and never related to Ekarladan,who died in Gwatto or Ughotton. In a nutshell, Odua is simply a Yoruba man from Yoruba.

Meanwhile,if you want know the ifaodu corpus, you will have to confess it out here as one who want to learn Yoruba language, the finest and richest cultural language in the world.


Cheers

Olu317:
Stop being ignorant. Anyway, information as this must be a puzzle for you,since your Oba in Biniland, is a descendant of Yoruba man inIleife.

On oduduwa ancestral land, remains specifically spelt as a man from YORUBA land of Ileife. While, there is an heavenly powerful being identified as the same name Oduduwa,whom was sanctioned by Eledumare to go complete the creation of earth.

You see, in Ileife, there is a saying, mèjè lòsi mẹfá lọ̀tún (seven on the right while six on the left),making it thirteen set up/hamlets(13) were clearly the historcal account that usher the dynasty of Odùà as the divine king authorised by Eledumare through oduduwa the heavenly messenger.

This is well known within Yoruba scholars circle. So, there is no iota of doubt that Odua was a Yoruba man, of which I am his descent and not forgetting the fact that millions of people both caucasians as well as Colour people are descended from him.

To buttress more, there is odu Ifa-odu that states, dúdù lẹgbọn pupa láburó(darkskin is the older one while the lightskin is the younger), which is even supported by another odù Ifá that says,afin ló'ríṣa (albino or lightskin is ancestor/god).

This statement is supported in Ileife ,that assert,that some families were the ancestors of lightskin,albino or whiteskins.

Principally, the Ileife of today is not the first or the second or third.....but about the 7th or 8th,which historical account states that after the flood destruction, while Ileife at its peak was established facing Atlantic.

In summary,wherever oduduwa ancestors came from, either as within or as established elsewhere in the ancient time, he remained a Yoruba man. So, Ogiso Iwodo didnt exist during odua time and never related to Ekarladan,who died in Gwatto or Ughotton. In a nutshell, Odua is simply a Yoruba man from Yoruba.

Meanwhile,if you want know the ifaodu corpus, you will have to confess it out here as one who want to learn Yoruba language, the finest and richest cultural language in the world.


Cheers

There is alot here in your write up. Lets break it down little by little.

Are you saying Oduduwa was originally from Ife and your Moroccan and other middle eastern relatives migrated from Ife to middle east or Oduduwa was a Yoruba man who migrated from the middle east. You already told us how DNA linked Yoruba and middle east people together. What I want to know is the direction of migration, did Oduduwa migrated from the middle east or middle east people migrated from Ife. What does Odu Ifa say about this?

A lot of ignorant people like TAO11 will want to learn from you. No insults, I am sure you can do away with the insults whilst you explain your position.

If we are to believe TAO11 that Oduduwa was originally from Ife, then the only way Yoruba people can be related to middle eastern people of Morocco, Egypt and Saudi Arabia will be these people migrating out of Ife. Do you agree or disagree with this simple observation.