LordReed:


LoL! BoE is not from the 4th century, it is from 300-100 BCE well before Jesus was on the scene. Yes that quote is consisent with your beliefs unless you don't believe Jesus is coming back with his saints.

This has been told you already and you should have the commonsense too. There's no problem with the quote but the book. That a quote is true and well known doesn't mean any book the quote is found is valid. Like i said elsewhere though, believe what you want. We're not the one looking for answers.

NNTR:

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There are at least 3-4 variants of it, I just wasnt bothered being exact or precise

Please re-paste the quote, in contention, here for me to see again. Thanks

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

Jude
14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

LordReed:
Jude
14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

When I say that the BoE is a fantasy novel that is on a par with 'The Da Vinci Code' because you dont want to appreciate the similar levels of speculations, inaccurate description(s) and misrepresentations, done on purpose by both authors, in their respective the BoE and 'The Da Vinci Code'

Now, if you dont mind, kindly please show us where the Bible corroborated the BoE' account, the brazenly obvious error, that Enoch is seventh from Adam.

Once you have given that answer, we can go on to start exploring other holes just as Jude, too did in Jude 14 or with it

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

NNTR:
When I say that the BoE is a fantasy novel that is on a par with 'The Da Vinci Code' because you dont want to appreciate the similar levels of speculations, inaccurate description(s) and misrepresentations, done on purpose by both authors, in their respective the BoE and 'The Da Vinci Code'

Now, if you dont mind, kindly please show us where the Bible corroborated the BoE' account, the brazenly obvious error, that Enoch is seventh from Adam.

Once you have given that answer, we can go on to start exploring other holes just as Jude, too did in Jude 14 or with it

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

Count the generations from Adam to Enoch:

1 Adam
2 Seth
3 Enos
4 Cainan
5 Mahalaleel
6 Jared
7 Enoch

I have to wonder if you actually read the bible. LoLz.

LordReed:
Count the generations from Adam to Enoch:

1 Adam
2 Seth
3 Enos
4 Cainan
5 Mahalaleel
6 Jared
7 Enoch

I have to wonder if you actually read the bible. LoLz.

1 Corinthians 15:33-34
'33Do not be deceived: “Bad company corrupts good morals.”
34Be sober-minded [be sensible, wake up from your spiritual stupor] as you ought,
and stop sinning; for some [of you] have no knowledge of God
[you are disgracefully ignorant of Him, and ignore His truths].
I say this to your shame.'

Acts 17:28
'For in Him we live and move and exist [that is, in Him we actually have our being],
as even some of your own poets have said, ‘For we also are His children.’

Titus 1:12
'One of them [Epimenides, a Cretan], a prophet of their own, said,
“Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons.”'

0 Adam
1 Seth
2 Enos
3 Cainan
4 Mahalaleel
5 Jared
6 Enoch
7 Methuselah

When I count the generations, Enoch is sixth from Adam so, the entry in the BoE, that Enoch is 7th from Adam, is self-contradictory, a deliberate inconsistency, conspicuous deviation from the truth and in fact a brazenly obvious error

The Bible nor Jude, in regards to Enoch, who obviously is 6th from Adam and not 7th from Adam, never said that any Enoch ever wrote any book(s).

Yes, of course, there's a BoE, book of Enoch, but there's no evidence that, supports its written by the Enoch, who biblically speaking, is 6th from Adam. So please accept that the fabled Enoch, that is 7th from Adam, in the fictitious world of literature, is who's mentioned in the BoE and not the biblical 6th from Adam and genuine Enoch, who was the father of Methuselah

Now, with that said, I am sure you are aware that Apostle Paul quoted all over the Bible, works from a bit of few famous Greek dramatists, heathen writers, philosophers, poets, etc, and I am talking here, about the likes of Menander, Aratus, Plato, even Epimenides and etc

In that one verse, you see in 1 Corinthians 15:33 above, is maxim taken from one of the writings of the aforementioned Greek dramatist Menander, Acts 17:28. Apostle Paul, included it to undoubtedly make a point about false and insincere teachers who were denying the truth of the resurrection of Jesus Christ. The line 'Bad company ruins good morals' are found in the classical play and lost comedy 'Thais' by Menander (i.e. go check, Thais 218, for this)

The first part of Acts 17:28 as seen above, was adopted from 'Cretica' by Epimenides, while the second part of the verse was gleaned from 'Hymn to Zeus', written by the Cilician poet Aratus. Of course, both of those lines were originally directed at the god, Zeus, in Greek literature, but it didnt stop Apostle Paul from using the excerpts, in making a point and case with them about God

As for Titus 1:12 and we know that the 'prophet' in that verse, is Epimenides, as he's identified, as such, in 'Stromata' by Clement of Alexandria (i.e. Stromata, i. 14) Now, Epimenides considered Zeus immortal, but the Cretans say that Zeus was mortal hence Epimenides' penned sentiment that 'Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons'

You see, I can go on to show you more, references and quotes published in the bible from heathen writers, poets, dramatist, fantasy books, philosophers etc and none of these literary works made them qualify or gain recognition for addition to biblical canon.

I quote you often, even when I dont necessarily believe the authenticity of your material, and so, its necessity many times that requires, me have to do so, most especially when its about having to make or stress a point. It is the same thing what happened with Apostle Jude in regards to Jude 1:14-15, he made reference to the BoE, in order to correct the pervaded false teachings spread by speculations, inaccurate description(s) and misrepresentations, done on purpose in such books as the BoE, even the Book of Noah

So, you now know why, the BoE wasnt accepted qualified to be in the bible canon, just as well, why the Book of A&E (i.e. the Book of Adam and Eve,) Book of Noah, Jubilees, BoJ (i.e. the Book of Jasher) etc

I have to wonder if you actually know that it is only a gullible who'll read, believe, fall and swallow hook, line and sinker the fake BoE story or any of the other apocrypha and pseudepigrapha books for that matter.

cc Image123

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

NNTR:

Yes, of course, there's a BoE, book of Enoch, but there's no evidence that, supports its written by the Enoch

Same goes with Jude, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John and others except Paul's letters as there's no evidence that supports they were written by Jesus and His disciples. These gospels are the work of unknown Christians and were composed c. 68-110 AD.

NNTR:
1 Corinthians 15:33-34
'33Do not be deceived: “Bad company corrupts good morals.”
34Be sober-minded [be sensible, wake up from your spiritual stupor] as you ought,
and stop sinning; for some [of you] have no knowledge of God
[you are disgracefully ignorant of Him, and ignore His truths].
I say this to your shame.'

Acts 17:28
'For in Him we live and move and exist [that is, in Him we actually have our being],
as even some of your own poets have said, ‘For we also are His children.’

Titus 1:12
'One of them [Epimenides, a Cretan], a prophet of their own, said,
“Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons.”'

0 Adam
1 Seth
2 Enos
3 Cainan
4 Mahalaleel
5 Jared
6 Enoch
7 Methuselah

When I count the generations, Enoch is sixth from Adam so, the entry in the BoE, that Enoch is 7th from Adam, is self-contradictory, a deliberate inconsistency, conspicuous deviation from the truth and in fact a brazenly obvious error

The Bible nor Jude, in regards to Enoch, who obviously is 6th from Adam and not 7th from Adam, never said that any Enoch ever wrote any book(s).

Yes, of course, there's a BoE, book of Enoch, but there's no evidence that, supports its written by the Enoch, who biblically speaking, is 6th from Adam. So please accept that the fabled Enoch, that is 7th from Adam, in the fictitious world of literature, is who's mentioned in the BoE and not the biblical 6th from Adam and genuine Enoch, who was the father of Methuselah

Now, with that said, I am sure you are aware that Apostle Paul quoted all over the Bible, works from a bit of few famous Greek dramatists, heathen writers, philosophers, poets, etc, and I am talking here, about the likes of Menander, Aratus, Plato, even Epimenides and etc

In that one verse, you see in 1 Corinthians 15:33 above, is maxim taken from one of the writings of the aforementioned Greek dramatist Menander, Acts 17:28. Apostle Paul, included it to undoubtedly make a point about false and insincere teachers who were denying the truth of the resurrection of Jesus Christ. The line 'Bad company ruins good morals' are found in the classical play and lost comedy 'Thais' by Menander (i.e. go check, Thais 218, for this)

The first part of Acts 17:28 as seen above, was adopted from 'Cretica' by Epimenides, while the second part of the verse was gleaned from 'Hymn to Zeus', written by the Cilician poet Aratus. Of course, both of those lines were originally directed at the god, Zeus, in Greek literature, but it didnt stop Apostle Paul from using the excerpts, in making a point and case with them about God

As for Titus 1:12 and we know that the 'prophet' in that verse, is Epimenides, as he's identified, as such, in 'Stromata' by Clement of Alexandria (i.e. Stromata, i. 14) Now, Epimenides considered Zeus immortal, but the Cretans say that Zeus was mortal hence Epimenides' penned sentiment that 'Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons'

You see, I can go on to show you more, references and quotes published in the bible from heathen writers, poets, dramatist, fantasy books, philosophers etc and none of these literary works made them qualify or gain recognition for addition to biblical canon.

I quote you often, even when I dont necessarily believe the authenticity of your material, and so, its necessity many times that requires, me have to do so, most especially when its about having to make or stress a point. It is the same thing what happened with Apostle Jude in regards to Jude 1:14-15, he made reference to the BoE, in order to correct the pervaded false teachings spread by speculations, inaccurate description(s) and misrepresentations, done on purpose in such books as the BoE, even the Book of Noah

So, you now know why, the BoE wasnt accepted qualified to be in the bible canon, just as well, why the Book of A&E (i.e. the Book of Adam and Eve,) Book of Noah, Jubilees, BoJ (i.e. the Book of Jasher) etc

I have to wonder if you actually know that it is only a gullible who'll read, believe, fall and swallow hook, line and sinker the fake BoE story or any of the other apocrypha and pseudepigrapha books for that matter.

cc Image123

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

There is nothing like zero when counting generations. Adam is the first Noah the seventh.

I never claimed that Enoch wrote the BoE, the question was where did the quote come from and specifically to our chain of discussion why is the book the quote is taken from not canon when the one that quotes it is canon. You claimed that Jude was exposing false teachings and I asked you is Jesus returning with the saints is false teaching, you refused to answer but now have come back with what I can only describe as off point.

LoLz the guy who takes the book of Revelation seriously is telling me "only a gullible who'll read, believe, fall and swallow hook, line and sinker the fake BoE story or any of the other apocrypha and pseudepigrapha books for that matter". How are you any better? Bwahahahahaha! Dude you are all in the same boat as far as I am concerned. You are not more special than those who read and believe any other religious text.

MindHacker9009:
Same goes with Jude, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John and others except Pauls letters as there's no evidence that supports they were written by Jesus and His disciples. These gospels are the work of unknown Christians and were composed c. 68-110 AD.

May I kindly remind you that the books of Jude, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John and others are not on trial here, but its the BoE.

When you remarked, asking and saying 'Where Did Jude Find Enoch's Prophesy Jude 1:14 -15. This prophesy of Enoch is nowhere in the Old Testament, so where did Jude get it from.', I shared the low-down of the source, which is the fictitious BoE

The pseudepigrapha glorified BoE novel lacking obvious credibility, authenticity, soundness and truth is what's pointed out to you with showing an evidence pulled out from one of its major incredibilities.

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

LordReed:
There is nothing like zero when counting generations. Adam is the first, Noah the seventh.

Unfortunately for you, there's zero when counting generations.

When you count from Adam, then Enoch is sixth from Adam and not seventh from Adam, as it is, Methuselah, who is seventh from Adam

Adam, for your info, is from zero generation, meaning, was not generated from a human being before him

Kk, now tell, what is considered 1st generation American or 1st generation Briton?

LordReed:
I never claimed that Enoch wrote the BoE ...

If you never claimed that Enoch wrote the BoE, then you're squared with me and its all good.

LordReed:
... the question was where did the quote come from and specifically to our chain of discussion why is the book the quote is taken from not canon when the one that quotes it is canon..

I have extensively shared what or where the source is from. Also prior have shared that the reason why the BoE wasnt accepted qualified to be in the bible canon, just as well, why the Book of A&E (i.e. the Book of Adam and Eve,) Book of Noah, Jubilees, BoJ (i.e. the Book of Jasher) etc

LordReed:
You claimed that Jude was exposing false teachings and I asked you is Jesus returning with the saints is false teaching, you refused to answer but now have come back with what I can only describe as off point.

Of course, Jesus returning with the saints, is not false teaching (i.e. Jude 1:14b is not false). It isnt Jude 1:14b that disqualified the BoE making it into to Canon

LordReed:
LoLz the guy who takes the book of Revelation seriously is telling me "only a gullible who'll read, believe, fall and swallow hook, line and sinker the fake BoE story or any of the other apocrypha and pseudepigrapha books for that matter". How are you any better? Bwahahahahaha! Dude you are all in the same boat as far as I am concerned. You are not more special than those who read and believe any other religious text.

You'll be surprised, I read all religious texts, whether be in the canon, be apocrypha and pseudepigrapha, be Quran, be Odu Ifa and whatnot

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

NNTR:
May I kindly remind you that the books of Jude, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John and others are not on trial here, but its the BoE.

When you remarked, asking and saying 'Where Did Jude Find Enoch's Prophesy Jude 1:14 -15. This prophesy of Enoch is nowhere in the Old Testament, so where did Jude get it from.', I shared the low-down of the source, which is the fictitious BoE

The pseudepigrapha glorified BoE novel lacking obvious credibility, authenticity, soundness and truth is what's pointed out to you with showing an evidence pulled out from one of its major incredibilities.

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

Since you brought in the credibility of the Book of Enoch hence the mention of the credibility of the other books in the NT as the question is on "Where Did Jude Find Enoch's Prophesy Jude 1:14 -15" It was mentioned above that Jude got it through the Holy Spirit. What's the crediblity of this when the Book of Enoch was an "Ethiopic translation of a previous Greek translation made in Palestine from the original Hebrew or Aramaic." Source: https://www.britannica.com/topic/First-Book-of-Enoch

MindHacker9009:
Since you brought in the credibility of the Book of Enoch hence the mention of the credibility of the other books in the NT as the question is on "Where Did Jude Find Enoch's Prophesy Jude 1:14 -15"

Doesnt work like that my dear friend in bringing other books in.

Remember that you wondered about 'Where Did Jude Find Enoch's Prophesy Jude 1:14 -15. This prophesy of Enoch is nowhere in the Old Testament, so where did Jude get it from.', and so I shared the low-down of the source all up there, which is that, the BoE is fictitious. It is an early century blockbuster novel. I even went to great length pointing out one of its glaring and deliberate misleading entries, (i.e. the insertion that Enoch was seventh from Adam) That's just one out the many reasons, why it lost credibility and so never gained qualification to be put in the biblical canon

MindHacker9009:
It was mentioned above that Jude got it through the Holy Spirit. What's the crediblity of this when the Book of Enoch was an "Ethiopic translation of a previous Greek translation made in Palestine from the original Hebrew or Aramaic." Source: https://www.britannica.com/topic/First-Book-of-Enoch

I dont know who mentioned to you and what was shared with you that Jude got through the Holy Spirit, but I have this to say in reply, the BoE, isnt the only one flying around at that time, there even are other hoaxes like, Book of A&E (i.e. the Book of Adam and Eve) Book of Noah, Jubilees, BoJ (i.e. the Book of Jasher) to name just those few

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

NNTR:
Unfortunately for you, there's zero when counting generations.

When you count from Adam, then Enoch is sixth from Adam and not seventh from Adam, as it is, Methuselah, who is seventh from Adam

Adam, for your info, is from zero generation, meaning, was not generated from a human being before him

Kk, now tell, what is considered 1st generation American or 1st generation Briton?

If you never claimed that Enoch wrote the BoE, then you're squared with me and its all good.

I have extensively shared what or where the source is from. Also prior have shared that the reason why the BoE wasnt accepted qualified to be in the bible canon, just as well, why the Book of A&E (i.e. the Book of Adam and Eve,) Book of Noah, Jubilees, BoJ (i.e. the Book of Jasher) etc

Of course, Jesus returning with the saints, is not false teaching (i.e. Jude 1:14b is not false). It isnt Jude 1:14b that disqualified the BoE making it into to Canon

You'll be surprised, I read all religious texts, whether be in the canon, be apocrypha and pseudepigrapha, be Quran, be Odu Ifa and whatnot

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

I dunno where you got your chart from. BTW counting generations has nothing to do with whether you were born by humans, it is a reference scheme and you are the only person I have ever heard say there is a generation zero.

NNTR:
Doesnt work like that my dear friend in bringing other books in.

Remember that you wondered about 'Where Did Jude Find Enoch's Prophesy Jude 1:14 -15. This prophesy of Enoch is nowhere in the Old Testament, so where did Jude get it from.', and so I shared the low-down of the source all up there, which is that, the BoE is fictitious. It is an early century blockbuster novel. I even went to great length pointing out one of its glaring and deliberate misleading entries, (i.e. the insertion that Enoch was seventh from Adam) That's just one out the many reasons, why it lost credibility and so never gained qualification to be put in the biblical canon

I dont know who mentioned to you and what was shared with you that Jude got through the Holy Spirit, but I have this to say in reply, the BoE, isnt the only one flying around at that time, there even are other hoaxes like, Book of A&E (i.e. the Book of Adam and Eve,) Book of Noah, Jubilees, BoJ (i.e. the Book of Jasher) to name just those few

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

Then you are missing the purpose of my original post. It is where Jude got the professphy of Enoch from. If you disagree it came from the Book of Enoch then say which credible source you feel it came from.

LordReed:
I dunno where you got your chart from. BTW counting generations has nothing to do with whether you were born by humans, it is a reference scheme and you are the only person I have ever heard say there is a generation zero.

LordReed, my very dear good sir, please kindly list out of Seth, Enos, Cainan, Mahalaleel, Jared, Enoch and Methuselah, who is first generation, second generation, third generation, fourth generation, fifth generation, sixth generation and lastly the seventh generation from Adam

First from Adam =
Second from Adam =
Third From Adam =
Fourth from Adam =
Fifth from Adam =
Sixth from Adam =
and lastly the Seventh from Adam =

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

MindHacker9009:
Then you are missing the purpose of my original post. It is where Jude got the professphy of Enoch from. If you disagree it came from the Book of Enoch then say which credible source you feel it came from.

MindHacker900, you obviously missed, all the places on this thread of me sharing that Apostle Jude was quoting excerpts from the BoE, and then after also made clear with facts, that, it is an early century blockbuster novel, done up, à la Dan Brown's 'The Da Vinci Code'

I have here and there, quite a number of times been quoting you on this thread, now me quoting you, doesnt mean I've been endorsing you as a credible source, or does it now? Tell now. If not, then same applies to Apostle Jude quoting the BoE or Apostle Paul making references to and using excerpts from works of famous Greek dramatists, heathen writers, philosophers, poets, etc, and I am talking of here, about the likes of Menander, Aratus, Plato, even Epimenides and etc

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

joinnow:

There is book of Enoch though i saw online and read you will see demons names how different demon teach men how to carve things make knives etc and the level of heavens

Very interesting book to read.

joinnow:
There is book of Enoch though i saw online and read you will see demons names how different demon teach men how to carve things make knives etc and the level of heavens

Kobojunkie:
Very interesting book to read.

Yeah, I agree, very interesting book to read, but not as much as 'The Da Vinci Code' and its prequel 'Angels & Demons', reworked as a sequel to 'The Da Vinci Code' are.

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}