dem dey play he song on D# (D Sharp). I no haer MAry voice too

Catholics are happy to be the very generation(s) prophesized by Mary to call her Blessed. I’m a staunch Catholic – for life. So, I want all Catholics in this forum to proudly identify themselves and their model Saint(s). Mine is Pope Sylvester, his life on earth enticed me, and that is why I’m Sylvester today.

Pilgrim, Cgift, are not part of the generation that will call Mary blessed. It’s a pity that my friends are not part of us. I will cont inue to cry for them until they join us. I have never seen any Angel deriding Mary – the Holy Mother of Jesus.

Crying and crying

There are so many. I don't have a particular one.
Ok---I'll go with St. Peter.

kellorah

Which of the St. Peters? tell us one particular thing - why you went for him.

I went for Pope Sylvester II because he was bold enough to address the abuses in Episcopal Office. He had to flee, yet he remained strong.

I'm not trying to diss adherents of the catholic faith, but as rational adults who would want to call a spade by it's name, are you comfortable with a situation where catholic dogma and tradition cannot find corroboration in the Bible or in any other spiritual records.

If na person tell me say three pple fit make one person, I go argue am, but now catholic tradition wants us to swallow this without asking questions.

The gospel is supposed to be easy and straightforward, but complications such as Trinity, Purgatory etc, even some Reverend Fathers that I have argued with find it difficult to explain and they conclude by saying it is catholic tradition. My mom is a devout catholic, but I ask these questions and even she doesn't have convincing response cos they ain't Bible based. I could go on and on, but let's not be hoodwinked by the ways of the world, ignorance of the law might not help out much on the last day you know

Any Protestants that read the last Chapter of John don’t need to ask Catholics if this or that is in the bible. It is written, not everything Christ did was written down. The world itself cannot contain it. The bible recorded the few things the Apostles did, but after the Apostles – their successors were still men of God, but what they did were not written in the bible. They passed them orally to their followers (Catholics) to practice. So, bible is just a guide, to assist us because of our ignorance. No portion in the bible that says you should practice only what you see in the bible. Though, Catholic gave them the bible, without us, there would not have been any bible today.

So, my Catholic friends, keep on identifying your model Saint(s), Catholic remain strong despite every criticism. An evidence that the gate of hell cannot prevail against it.

Brother, this is the age of enlightenment. Whether e dey bible or not, we are bound to follow it's principles as the word of God does not contradict itself. Teachings of men cannot be comparable to the word of divinity. Don't just pull a shroud over the eyes of the other brother or sister as Jesus never did that. Even when the apostles no understand something, Jesus dey explain am give them, but previous pontiffs always had problems explaining the dogma of the church, even the present pope has difficulty too. Just recently, the idea of unbaptized infants going to purgatory was dropped from catholic doctrine after centuries of it being forced down the throats of faithfuls.

My arguement is in that light. Very soon, most if not all dogma will become obsolete and only the true word of the Lord would remain. It is time that the catholic church begins to re order itself so it be not classed among false religion.

This no be sentiment, this is rationality. Think about it. And for protestants, most of those have deviated a long time ago anyway

Unbaptised Infant going to purgatory dropped? My own Catholic is deep. We never taught that in Catholic Church. Bring any Catechism or Link written by an approved Catholic author to prove it. Stop saying what you don't know.

Brother, no be quarrel. It was accepted catholic tradition that if an infant is unbaptized and he/she happens to pass away say na purgatory dem dey go. It is taught in cathechism classes and it's in the Catholic catechism doctrine. Na even this year naim Pope Benedict 16th discountenance am. Ask your priest, him go clarify you more.

I'll try search for a link to confirm, ok.

Sorry jare, na limbo naim the unbaptized infants suppose go when dem die and not purgatory (my mistake). You can peruse the link below:

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/221601/pope_benedict_xvi_changes_catholic.html

The Catechism, I was among the Seminarians few years back. I didn’t teach that, and nobody taught me that too. Even Limbo, we mean a place where the souls of the just who died before Christ where kept. Talking of Abraham, Issaac, Jacob. The just men in the Old Testament. Now, Limbo don’t exist hence Christ has released them and open the gate of heaven for them, but we point them out to our Catechumen till date. So, it’s not like they dropped it. Get your facts well.

Pilgrim more songs for the true Church

Brother, did you read my link, now you dey contradict your own pope?

ebos:

Pilgrim, Cgift, are not part of the generation that will call Mary blessed.

Not true. Mary was a blessed woman - and we also recognize several women who are blessed as well in their own callings. The one thing we do NOT do is turn Mary into things that God nowhere called her, such as -

[list]
* co-redemptrix
* co-mediatrix
* Mother of God
* Queen of Heaven
. . . etc.[/list]

Above all those, true Christians do not PRAY TO Mary.

Look through Scripture and see if it was only Mary who is called a blessed woman. Why do you suppose she was called "blessed AMONG women" (Luke 1:42)?!? Does that suggest to you that she is the only blessed woman among all other women? And if there are several other women, why is the Catholic Church ascribing things unto Mary that God never ascribed to her?

My song continues:


<sub>Who is like unto thee, O LORD, among the gods? who is like thee, glorious in holiness, fearful in praises, doing wonders?

[img]http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:9_gRERpD1TookM:http://ecmc.rochester.edu/ecmc/docs/score11/Fig04.gif[/img]

Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.</sub>

I no go argue much with you anyway as there really is no point. But I believe say you're an enlightened and educated young man seeing that you were in a seminary and all, but I really would like you to remove sentiments and blind loyalty to something that obviously you do not understand.

The early fathers of the catholic church from the time of the Nicene congregation headed by the Roman emperor Constantinople made a lot of revising to the the tenets of gospel based christianity, even infusing pagan traditions to worship e.g incense and festivities which were not a part of the Jesus era of christianity (Bible based or not).

Just take a while and go through you beliefs, if at the end of the day you are satisfied with half truths and complexities which the catholic church of today propagates, I will leave you to your conscience.

But if you sincerely want to worship the father creator through his only begotten son, Jesus, following the gospel as propounded by him, then no be me go tell you make you ask your fada for your parish wetin dey. If his answers do belleful you, good. But if you are really thirsting for knowledge about the one true and living God almighty, you go rearrange your priorities.

Like the master, Jesus said that year to his followers "Those who have ears, let them hear"

I rest my case

Pilgrim, I hope you no dey jeje now Abeg, soft pedal.

My brother read Luke Chapter 1 vs 9, the Priest Zechariah was burning incense when Angel Gabriel visited him. Again, Revelation Chapter 8 verses 1-5, the angels in heaven were burning Incense while praying to God. Go and read them well.

Lol. . . ebos,

ebos:

Pilgrim, I hope you no dey jeje now Abeg, soft pedal.

Psst: Moses no dey arand just now. . . so I go just make shakara small before e return with Joshua!


References plenty for Bible concerning women who are called blessed. I thought you'd take a lil trip through the divine pages of Scripture and find a few of them. I'll give you one to reflect one --

[list]Jdg 5:24
"Blessed above women shall Jael the wife of Heber the Kenite be,
blessed shall she be above women in the tent."[/list]

Shébi una like the Old Testament so much? Why una no copy that verse and also honour Jael?

If to "honour" Mary means that Catholics are supposed to "pray to" her because Elizabeth called her "blessed", what is making you guys cringe from the thought of also "honouring" Jael and "praying to" her? Is this OT saint not also called "Blessed ABOVE women"?!?

Between the one who is "blessed AMONG women" and the other who is "blessed ABOVE women", which one go "entice" you pass, ebos?

Haa! Ojoro dey Vatican O!

But Mary prophesized that she would be called blessed, besides, being privileged to be the mother of your saviour makes her special. Pilgrim, you think of it. If God had favoured her, who are we to ridicule her? Oh, you think Jesus will be happy if you dishonour her mother? - Pilgrim, you will one day discover the truth we have in catholic Church

I can’t understand if a Pastor is not mediating each time he prays for you. That makes him Co-mediatriz.

I ask only one question:

Between "blessed among women" and "blessed ABOVE women" which one entice you pass, ebos?

Besides,

ebos:

But Mary prophesized that she would be called blessed,

Bros, you wan play anoda ojoro be dat! You wan turn Mary to "prophetess" join all the over 6,000 titles wey Catholic call Mary! So, which one e go be - the "Prophetess of Heaven" or. . .??  

Mary did not "prophesy" that she would be called blessed - she recognized and acknowledged Elizabeth's greeting as well the same greeting with which angel Gabriel saluted her (Luke 1:28 & 42). She was not said to be "prophesying" in Luke 1:48.

Again, make I give you another woman wey "prophesy" the same thing (according to your observation):

[list]Gen 30:13
"And Leah said, Happy am I, for the daughters will call me blessed: and she called his name Asher."[/list]

Aha! Oya, wetin una talk about Leah - she also no "prophesy" (according to your observation)?!?  

More to come, ebos - dem plenty for Bible O!

ebos:

I can’t understand if a Pastor is not mediating each time he prays for you. That makes him Co-mediatriz.

Does that make that Pastor assume the same status as "Queen of Heaven"? Abi how many "hail Pastor" we go pray before Christ hear im prayer?

Leah said daughters will call her blessed but not all generations (only daughters, men excluded). Now, to answer your question, Mary’s blessed entice me more. However, I thank God that you now acknowledge that Pastors becomes co-mediatrix when they pray for you. That is my only joy for today. Pilgrim, have agreed with me. Thank God, there is hope. Again, Pastors don’t need to be called all those names we give our Mother Mary because they are not worthy to be called such. Mirror of Justice, House of Gold, Tower of Ivory, Spiritual Vessel, Vessel of Honour, Mediatrix of all Graces, Morning Start, Mother of Divine Grace, Ark of the Covenant etc. Haba! which Pastor deserves even one of these names?

ebos:

Leah said daughters will call her blessed but not all generations (only daughters, men excluded). Now, to answer your question, Mary’s blessed entice me more. However, I thank God that you now acknowledge that Pastors becomes co-mediatrix when they pray for you. That is my only joy for today. Pilgrim, have agreed with me. Thank God, there is hope. Again, Pastors don’t need to be called all those names we give our Mother Mary because they are not worthy to be called such. Mirror of Justice, House of Gold, Tower of Ivory, Spiritual Vessel, Vessel of Honour, Mediatrix of all Graces, Morning Start, Mother of Divine Grace, Ark of the Covenant etc. Haba! which Pastor deserves even one of these names?

C'mon ebos, don't try to be so patronizing and twist issues. In the first place, it is clear that the one who is "ABOVE" holds more recognition than the one who is "AMONG". It is not as if Mary is not special among women; but going by the superflous role Catholcism accords her, one should be able to point out to you guys that there were many other women that are blessed - and especially so is the case of Jael, of whom it is recorded in Scripture that she is "blessed ABOVE women"! If Jael is "ABOVE" women, by what measure do you play down the weight of that testimony in Scripture and promote your own Mary "among" women?

Secondly, Leah's case is simply on the same pedestal as Catholics ascribe to Mary. Why so? Because Mary was conversing with another woman (Elizabeth) in Luke 1 as was the case with Leah who was conversing with her women folk in Genesis 30. If you assume that Mary was "prophesying" in recognizing that all generation wuld call her blessed, so was Leah "prophesying" that all women (the daughters) would call her blessed. Abi una no get women in Catholic Church again?

Third, even in all the cases of the three women - Leah, Jael, and Mary - all are called "blessed"; but none of them ever "prophesied" that they were going to sit in heaven so that Catholics can pray to them! Mary never said "all generations shall PRAY TO me" - and if you find the verse where Mary made any such prophecies of anyone "praying to" her, then post it and let us learn.

Now it's interesting that you assume to interpret my post as saying that I "acknowledged" my pastor is a co-mediatrix. I no fit laugh. He would be the first man among many to deny that to your face, because he is neither a Roman Catholic nor does he place himself as the Catholic Church places Mary as the "Queen of Heaven". No way! And if you want some more stuff, ask - and I shall very quickly serve you the connection between what Scripture calls "the queen of heaven" and the Catholic worship in direct contravention of that appellation.


For now. . . one more song:


_{David's song: "In God is my salvation and my glory: the rock of my strength, and my refuge, is in God"
[img]http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:9_gRERpD1TookM:http://ecmc.rochester.edu/ecmc/docs/score11/Fig04.gif[/img]
Isaiah's song "I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images."}

Jesus, the Bread of Life,
taken, blessed, broken, and given away
so that all might be healed and have LIFE.

Father, TAKE the lives of our Protestants who have been led astray by their Pastors

We offer them to You with open hands.
Through the example of Jesus,
teach them to surrender their lives fully to You and listen to the True Catholic Church.
BLESS them with the knowledge that they are Your beloved ones
and that they truly belong to a community of love and mercy.
BREAK open their hearts
so that the seed of the Word and the power of the Eucharist
can be planted in fertile ground, take root and transform their lives.

GIVE these Protestants to the world
with the power of the Holy Spirit to witness to the love of Jesus
and serve Him in each person they meet.

As Christ gave you thanks and fed many,
may we give You thanks for granting these people knowledge
and ask You to multiply it and nurture its growth for your glory.
Amen.

Having prayed for you people. I want you to point any portion of the bible where the Angels or the Apostles ridiculed Mary the way you (Protestants) do.

I'm crying and crying for you - Pilgrim. Join the true Church. I just hope my prayer will make impact. Cheers!

Pilgrim, just try answer me this question. Which year were you converted? Hope you will answer me.

Pilgrim of all these women you mentioned and compared with Mary, it’s a known fact that no Angel of God or Prophets addressed or greeted them as being Hail and favoured one, FULL of Grace. I hope you understand the word FULL. It simply means complete, that is every part of Mary from Head to Toe was filled with grace of God. That’s Mary Special. My Mother, she entices me so much and I love her and will continue to do so.

ebos:

Pilgrim of all these women you mentioned and compared with Mary, it’s a known fact that no Angel of God or Prophets addressed or greeted them as being Hail and favoured one, FULL of Grace. I hope you understand the word FULL. It simply means complete, that is every part of Mary from Head to Toe was filled with grace of God. That’s Mary Special. My Mother, she entices me so much and I love her and will continue to do so.

You obviously do not love God with all of your heart, soul, and might. You are sharing Christ's place and work with Mary. God is a jealous God. A sign shall be given to catholics and many who are objective will see and know that Christ is the Way, not Mary. Many of these things are the traditions of men since you cannot justify them with the sam bible you wrote.

I can Mary's heart bleeds due to this derailing. Mary was not perfect mind you.

I can imagine them trying to cast out demon and sayng in the name of Mary

@ebos,

ebos:

Father, TAKE the lives of our Protestants who have been led astray by their Pastors

I've had a personal conversation with Him without going through Mary, and believe it or not, He is not going to "take" our lives away. "I shall not die, but live, and declare the works of the LORD. " (Psa. 118:17)

ebos:

We offer them to You with open hands.
Through the example of Jesus,
teach them to surrender their lives fully to You and listen to the True Catholic Church.

I'm glad you're not offering that prayer to Mary. On the other hand, unfortunately, God is not going to take that prayer seriously because it is not His will that anyone be led astray by listening to the Catholic Church. Who do we listen to? See the answer:

[list]
Matthew 17:5
"While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him."

Hebrews 1:1-2
"God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds"[/list]

Listen to the Son of God; and if the Catholic Church no longer listens to Him but practises their own traditions, then all the safer for the saints to reject what the Catholic Church is practising.

ebos:

BLESS them with the knowledge that they are Your beloved ones
and that they truly belong to a community of love and mercy.

Amen - He has blessed us with that knowledge already - and that has been our prayer for you as well!

ebos:

BREAK open their hearts
so that the seed of the Word and the power of the Eucharist
can be planted in fertile ground, take root and transform their lives.

Praise God - our lives have been transformed already!

ebos:

GIVE these Protestants to the world
with the power of the Holy Spirit to witness to the love of Jesus
and serve Him in each person they meet.

Amen - which is what we have been seeking to do by bringing you that same message.

ebos:

As Christ gave you thanks and fed many,
may we give You thanks for granting these people knowledge
and ask You to multiply it and nurture its growth for your glory.
Amen.

Amen - so you can ray like us Protestants, without including Mary and putting all your hope and trust in her as the Catholic Church has ALWAYS done?!? God be praised!