Dtruthspeaker:


Are you not the one who hides in self deceits and twists things into the way you want to see them rather than what they are?

The bubble of denial always bursts at the worst time.

Wishfully thinking that God planned to save man before the world would not change the fact that men have done lots of unforgivable things and they shall still stand condemned and guilty.

tctrills:
Did God expect Adam to fall? Yes. Just the same way he knows that we all would fall in sin at one point or the other. That was why he provided a way even before the creation of the world.
1 Peter 1:19-20

19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Rev. 13. 8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Without Adam, there would be not Christ and Savior.
Without Christ, we can't go back to God.

Techobeys:


The first comment I read on your post said “you could have just kept quiet” I think I understand why the person might have said that bc your starting summation about God’s expectation of Adam’s sin is not according to I’m understanding.

I’m glad you didn’t keep quiet though. We all must learn to confess the word, and in doing so, we’ll do better. If children were told to keep quiet every time they spoke, you and I would never be able to speak today.

That said, I think it’s wrong for you to say God expected Adam to see. No, that’s false. The fact that God already knew he’ll sin doesn’t mean God expected it. You need to understand this. Imagine you need to imagine it properly.

God did all he could to avoid Adam’s sin, but Adam still sinned, so the problem was Adam. God did not predetermined that Adam should sin. What Christ is was available for Adam to be, but Adam refused to obey the commandments of God, so God sent his word to come do what man couldn’t do and achieve man’s destiny.

So what happened in the beginning was treachery, it’s not God’s plan or what God desired. It was treachery of the highest order and it’s the problem of life. Plotting to be as your creator is betrayer, if you don’t know this, learn from politics.

tctrills:

Funny you. Just because you don't like the plainly stated truth in the scriptures you change it to an idiom.
Oga no wishful thinking here. Just read and believe in your scriptures

Dtruthspeaker:


See your rubbish counter attack forgetting that I am not harmed in any way. Whereas you have committed grievous atrocities and therefore you are desperately looking for how you can wipe your sins away. But you used your own hands and mouth to burnt your chance and opportunity, thus someone would say it is finished for you and you are finished.

tctrills:

I have not tried to Attack or harm you in anyway. ...

tctrills:

About wiping away my sins, do you forget the words "Behold the lamb of God that has come to take away the sins of the world." I am not in a desperate situation.
You really need to read your bible more

tctrills:

A few things here:
It's actually controversial to say God knew Adam would sin but did not expect him to sin as stated in your 3rd paragraph.

Next you say God did all he could to prevent Adam from eating the fruit. For this, I would say we don't know. It is not indicated that God did anything to prevent Adam from eating the fruit so you can throw more light.

Lastly, the bible states that Christ was a Lamb slain before the foundations of the earth. Can you please tell me how you understand the statement?

Please could you also add you understanding of the verse below.
Ephesians 1:4-5

According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Techobeys:


Hi dear, I must say this is one of the most respectful replies I have ever received on Nairaland so I really praise God for your behavior

Nothing is controversial of my statement, I think you might view that bc of your beliefs. If one knows will do a thing bc of the way that person behaves, that doesn’t mean one expects that person to do that way. This is why we get hurt by people even though we might have been seeing signals of that behavior.

If your girlfriend or wise, starts giving signals of wanting out, of course if you critically analyze their behavior, you’ll know what they’ll do. But that doesn’t mean your expect or want them to throw away the relationship you have. So there’s nothing controversial about that.

Also, I think it’s well plastered that God did all he could to prevent man from sinning. You saying “we don’t know” is just you trying to deny that. It’s how scientists who always claim to know everything say “we don’t know” when they don’t want to admit certain facts.

Lastly, according as he has chosen us before the world began. That’s something I was going to write about or talk on on my YouTube channel. So kindly subscribe to my channel to stay up to date.

The phrase “the world” has two meanings. In the Greek, it’s kosmos and kosmon. Kosmos means the universe, or the heaven and the earth as religiously put. But kosmon means the activity on earth (eons).

The world in that context is not cosmos its cosmon so it’s not saying that we have been choseb before the heaven and earth were created, it was saying we have been chosen before activity began on earth.

This is a very long topic I’ll like to take time to dissect bc it reveals a lot but I’ll cut it short bc of the length of my reply. I can’t let my reply be long than the article. Iyen o da na.

So kindly check it and confirm. Also read Psalm 24:1-2. Do you think the psalmist was saying that the universe was founded on sea? Are sea not a part of the universe? The world is in the heaven and earth, and the world which the psalmist was talking about is not the universe itself, it’s the activity on earth. It was established on the water in the beginning bc God said let the water bring forth ground, that began activity you see on earth today.

Here’s a link to my YouTube page. Kindly subscribe to it bc I’ll be teaching these things and more for proper understanding of the scripture.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8-E6o7N6Xs

Dtruthspeaker:


See, as I have always told you, your soul is so twisted that you do not see nor interpret normally.



Yet, it is not wiped away.
Let's just say that I rather believe the words of John than a funny guy on Nairaland

tctrills:



Now if you know something would happen then clearly you expect it to happen. It's not possible to know something and expect another. It's possible to know something and want another outcome but not possible to know and expect another outcome.

Again, I was hoping you would show me scriptural evidence that God did everything to prevent Adam from eating the fruit. Now let's use the scriptures.
Could you highlight some of the things God did to prevent Adam from eating the fruit? I would love to hear your views.
1. Who planted the tree?
2. What was the purpose of the tree?
3. If you know something is bad for your child, would you plant such a thing in your farm?
God clearly wanted the best for man and the Coming of Christ is the best.

Lastly, I don't understand the connection you are trying to make with Psalm 24:1-2.

Techobeys:


This is why I try not to give reasonable comment on Nairaland. Did you means I wrote all that only for it to go to waste?

You mentioned that the Bible says that we have been chosen before the began and I did a short teaching explaining to you that “the world” in that context didn’t mean the universe but the activities in the universe. But here you are removing your statement and making it look like I spoke out of context.

Answers to your question:

1. God planted the tree
2. I wouldn’t tell you the purpose of the tree bc you will not accept, seeing that you’ve refused to accept that “the world” is not the universe which is something that you can easily check to see if I was right.
3. Everything God created is good if used within its purpose. Man sinned only bc he consumed what God planted for his own satisfaction.

Lastly saying that God wanted a better man to come do the jobs sound rather cheeky. It appears as though God set Adam to fail and then turn around to be complaining that Adam failed. Think about it, don’t you think it’s rather awkward?

tctrills:

Well I respect your opinions but I rather believe the word of God.

tctrills:

Now you get it wrong. God only exposed man into a world that has it all, the God, bad and ugly.
That is how we grow.
While the devil may be stronger than us as you say, we can overcome the devil. So as a father, if my son has a challenge that I know he can ultimately overcome, I would not remove the challenge. I would allow the challenge to play it's part in helping him grow.
To understand that God knows all, you must understand that life does not end in this world. Life does not end at death. The sorrows we may face on earth is nothing compared to the promises that lies ahead.
Just because school is hard doesn't mean your parents should shield you from it.
Just look at the progress man has made. Living a protected life in a garden with all we needed, we would not have been able to advance as we have. Trials, challenges, difficulties help us grow. You think an omniscient and omnibenevolent God would not know this?

Steep:

God didn't set Adam to fail, Adam was not a robot, he had freewill and was fallable, Adam's fallability means he had to depend on God and his freewill means he had to decide.
God has seen that Adam would sin but he God would through Adam's sin show his glory and righteousness and at the same time without altering man's will.
As for the creating of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, it was made so Adam could make decision either to remain with God or to go on his own.
The presence of Satan is to present Adam with an alternative.


Adam's failure is not the end, through Adam's failure God's Love and goodness would really be seen and appreciated.

Techobeys:


The first comment I read on your post said “you could have just kept quiet” I think I understand why the person might have said that bc your starting summation about God’s expectation of Adam’s sin is not according to I’m understanding.

I’m glad you didn’t keep quiet though. We all must learn to confess the word, and in doing so, we’ll do better. If children were told to keep quiet every time they spoke, you and I would never be able to speak today.

That said, I think it’s wrong for you to say God expected Adam to see. No, that’s false. The fact that God already knew he’ll sin doesn’t mean God expected it. You need to understand this. Imagine you need to imagine it properly.

God did all he could to avoid Adam’s sin, but Adam still sinned, so the problem was Adam. God did not predetermined that Adam should sin. What Christ is was available for Adam to be, but Adam refused to obey the commandments of God, so God sent his word to come do what man couldn’t do and achieve man’s destiny.

So what happened in the beginning was treachery, it’s not God’s plan or what God desired. It was treachery of the highest order and it’s the problem of life. Plotting to be as your creator is betrayer, if you don’t know this, learn from politics.

Dtruthspeaker:


Says the one who says Christ is Archangel Michael.

tctrills:



Now if you know something would happen then clearly you expect it to happen. It's not possible to know something and expect another. It's possible to know something and want another outcome but not possible to know and expect another outcome.

Again, I was hoping you would show me scriptural evidence that God did everything to prevent Adam from eating the fruit. Now let's use the scriptures.
Could you highlight some of the things God did to prevent Adam from eating the fruit? I would love to hear your views.
1. Who planted the tree?
2. What was the purpose of the tree?
3. If you know something is bad for your child, would you plant such a thing in your farm?
God clearly wanted the best for man and the Coming of Christ is the best.

Lastly, I don't understand the connection you are trying to make with Psalm 24:1-2.

jaephoenix:

At least you are smarter than your theist friend. You are using some part of your brain by thinking slightly outside the box, not wholly outside. But there's a warning: keep thinking outside this box long enough, and you'll end up an atheist. Don't say you weren't warned. Quietly creep inside the safety of that box of religion

delkuf:
the day that other jw maxi told me this, I was sad to the heart. That day I know jw is a devilish cult. Since that day I stop giving audience to any jw. I shouted at one yesterday

jaephoenix:

1. Hold up!
The fact that God already knew he’ll sin doesn’t mean God expected it
What does this sentence mean? You mean Yahweh knew all how all the scenarios with Adam would play out but didn't expect him to sin?
That's just like me knowing my wife would stab me but I'm surprised she actually did stab me
2.
God did all he could to avoid Adam’s sin
Really? An immortal all powerful god got thwarted by a mere mortal he created? Lol.
By the way, yahweh aided Adam to fail the test. Planted a juicy tree right in the middle of the garden(where Adam could easily see it and admire it), gave him a beautiful sidekick who would easily succumb and whats more, created Satan and allowed him to tempt Adam via Eve. Looks like a open and shut case. Poor Adam was set up
See Techobey, leave cerebral discourses. You simply lack the mental adeptness to engage in them. Stick to crappy Youtube vlogging

Techobeys:


I know you wish I’d discuss these things with you but I won’t. It’ll burn your heart that I won’t discuss Bible with you.

tctrills:

Loool. Everyone uses some part of their brain even you. But the truth is, using the brain does not make one an atheist. And if you honestly believe that the atheistism is the outcome of using your Brian then you are no different from those you accuse.

jaephoenix:

Why do you think so?

jaephoenix:

Discuss a myth? Lol. You take yourself too serious. I already have my answers, and you don't even understand English, talk less of engaging me

tctrills:

You wouldn't understand

Techobeys:


Ogbeni, go and sit down jo. There’s no atheist alive or dead who can stand an unbiased discussion with me. If you think otherwise then fine.

People with high level of suggestibility always make the loudest noise, just as empty barrels do. Just keep growing and learning, and better yourself bc I know if I quiz you on that English language too, you’ll not be able to say any meaning thing.

Do you think you’re the only atheist I have encountered? I have held a discussion with almost a thousand of your kinds at once and they couldn’t breath let alone a cheap atheist with mere qualification for such discussion.

Keep learning and growing, when I think you’re ready for intelligent discussion, I’ll discuss with you. So far you’ve not shown any sign of such level of intelligence as is needed for such level of communication. What will you even say sef?

jaephoenix:

Is that your answer? Such lame excuse for not having an idea

jaephoenix:

1. So are you saying Yahweh didn’t created everything in the world?
How do you mean?
2. So let me get it right. So if we become good people we'll basically defeat an omniscient and omnipresent devil? Really? How?
Yes we defeat the forces of evil whenever we choose to do good.
3. I'm talking about Adam failing the test Yahweh gave him
Failing a test is never a problem. Peter failed 3 tests yet he was chosen to lead the church. Falling and standing up again is how we learn to walk. God expects us to make mistakes.
4. Ok

tctrills:

My answer is that the problem is with your understanding. You see other people as dumb because they believe in God and you are the one using your brain right?
It's impossible to explain to someone like you, that's the only problem here.

jaephoenix:

Can you bring a knife to a gun fight? No!
This world got advanced via science. People can travel around the world in one day, what was unheard of years ago. You can see and talk to someone in the other side of the world, a feat unheard of years ago. It did not happen by religion. Not by singing hymns every Sunday. Not by having faith. Just science. And science is based on facts and logic. Not faith.
So if science is beneficial, why should I engage in religion? What are the benefits of religion as against science?