TenQ:

I guessed as much: listen again

A god is any Deity (noun) : not an idea
A god is also Anything (noun) : not an idea

You basically said a god is a god that is recognised by people in response to the question what is a god or can you differentiate a deity from a god?

Lukuluku69:


You raised TWO Points.

1. When other come to Islam

2. When others come to Christianity.

I want to address them if you don't mind.

1. When others come to Islam. Contrary to your position, when others come to Islam, 100% of the time, you will hear them say, Islam made Logical sense to their queries about Faith, about Life. They can see the practicability of it's Teachings in everyday life. They can feel it ideas working in their own experience. All over the world not only in Nigeria people who research Faith thru the ages almost always choose Islam. I can go on but let me stop for now.

2. When others come to Christianity. Like you said, they do it thru an experience they alone encounter which others can't verify but solely on their own words alone. Like seeing Jesus, seeing Angels and all sorts. Well, since these are personal encounter, we can verify , we can't measure. Just their words alone.

Now, why is Jesus selective in visiting those individuals alone? He want Salvation for us all, he ought to manifest himself in us all.

Now, Islam call on the human intellect thru a varied means in YOUR OWN SOUL. And when people do that, most time, they choose Islam. Do you know why? It's teachings are Logical, relatable and practicable.

I like you for being straightforward and referencing my post as is. If it were your friend Antichristian, he would infuse falsehood and say what I never said. Legalwolf does that too. In his own case, he'll bring a contrary interpretation into your post and make it say what you never said. You engage maturely too except that occasionally you throw up tantrums. This I've observed about all your posts. I must commend you for that.

Yeah, before I answer your question about why Jesus doesn't manifest Himself to all, let me address your points relating to the role of Islamic logic in conversion experiences.

People want to relate with God through logic but they forget that God isn't an earthly Being. Earthly logic is irrelevant in the realm where God dwells. God is a Spirit. He dwells in the spirit realm. The logic of that realm is quiet different and far apart from earthly logic. If you approach the spirit realm with earthly logic, you'll be disappointed.

The Quran and Islam is based on earthly logic. On the surface, it looks reasonable, not until you dig deeper. TenQ and Advocatejare have extensively demonstrated that the logic of the Quran and that of Islam in general is at par with the logic of a 7th century Arabian. Or how would you defend the logic that your sperm is produced in your spinal chord? How can you defend the logic that Satan enters your mouth if you do not cover it while yawning? And a lot more that I cannot presently recall.

That's the weakness of human logic. Logic that's relevant today wouldn't be relevant tomorrow. New discoveries make certain logics obsolete. God cannot be found on the basis of ever changing logic. God is eternal.. He doesn't bend to human logic.

Now, why would Jesus appear to some and not to all?

1. Jesus is always appearing to everybody. Each time you hear the gospel preached or a warning message like the ones Advocatejare and TenQ post here on Nairaland, or an admonition like the one you're now reading from me, that's Jesus knocking at the door of your heart. This is one level of manifestation. But, oftentimes, He takes the manifestation to another level. This is the Encounter Level which I'll explain in my second point below.

2. Jesus appears to people in miraculous Encounters when any of the following conditions are met:

i. A sincere seeker who is errornously sincere in serving false gods but deep down in his heart, he really believes he has the truth. This is how most people of other Faiths find Jesus. There's nothing any human can tell this set of people. They believe so much in their Faiths, howbeit, sincerely. They're serving God in all honesty and never knew they're in error. Jesus goes the extra miles to save these set of people.

ii. A lover of truth who never has the opportunity to hear the gospel but is errornously serving God with sincerity. The Bible may be banned in His country. Churches may not be allowed to operate. There's little or no means for him to hear the gospel message. Jesus would go the extra mile to save this person. This is how most Muslims who convert in some Islamic countries find Jesus.

ii. Someone who is stubbornly following errors but has somebody somewhere praying for him. This person may even be a Christian or someone of other faiths. Generally, the devil has the person's heart. He doesn't know God and never cares to know Him. Jesus appears to this set of people in answer to someone's prayers for them. In most cases, He uses near death experiences to melt their stubborn hearts and turn them unto Himself. This is how some chronic believers in other faiths, hardened criminals,
etc find Jesus. These ones don't listen to anybody. In answer to prayers, He goes all out by Himself to find these lost souls.

Jesus isn't selective on who He manifests Himself to. However, He wouldn't force Himself on you. He also doesn't waste His time on people who stubbornly wants to serve Satan. Except someone is praying for you, He leaves you to keep following your decision, knowing fully well that at the end of time, you'll give accounts of the decisions you made on earth.

TenQ:

The only people who can cook up their hadiths and disrespect their Tafsirs for being fabrications can fabricate ANYTHING!

The case of Andrew Tate is still fresh in my head: you never boast of such?
Where is he now?
LOL!

By Allah I never heard of the guy until his issues. That said, the guy gained came via the Media. I did my research on him and it was not as if he was a Scholar of Islam. He was just living off the Media. Those kind of people don't attract my attention really but kids of nowadays. So, I never heard of him. Never.

And LYING TO ABOUND THE GLORY OF GOD is a Christian thing. Started by Paul and honed over Centuries by Testimonies (Read TESTIMOLIES) We all know the LIES built into your Testimonies. From Pastor this woman cannot walk since 23AD but when she got here she started walking. This Child was Born Deaf and Blind but he mentioned Jesus and the guy start to dey speak Queens English. We all know. Yet, the Pacelli School of the Blind is there no one pay them any visits. Go to Morgues and see people crying over dead relatives, both hound and old, your Pastors that can heal and wake the dead won't go their to abound God's glory but where Dem go do Offerings and pledges, Dem go full there

KanuSE:


Aku ìtunu àwè o, any weekend plans?

Emi a se opo odun laye,,,,, noooo

TenQ:

All I want is my own rice and chicken o!
If you can add Five Alive, I no mind!!

God bless you

Smiles

LordReed:


You basically said a god is a god that is recognised by people in response to the question what is a god or can you differentiate a deity from a god?

You asked:

LordReed:

What is a god?

Here was exactly what I said:

TenQ:

A god is any Deity recognised by people as such!
A god is also anything that guides the core values and deeds of a person!

Your argument was that they are imaginary things an IDEA!

LordReed:

Which in effect is an idea since you are not pointing to an actual thing. So how have you countered my initial response?

Are gods Ideas?

Lukuluku69:


You raised TWO Points.

1. When other come to Islam

2. When others come to Christianity.

I want to address them if you don't mind.

1. When others come to Islam. Contrary to your position, when others come to Islam, 100% of the time, you will hear them say, Islam made Logical sense to their queries about Faith, about Life. They can see the practicability of it's Teachings in everyday life. They can feel it ideas working in their own experience. All over the world not only in Nigeria people who research Faith thru the ages almost always choose Islam. I can go on but let me stop for now.

2. When others come to Christianity. Like you said, they do it thru an experience they alone encounter which others can't verify but solely on their own words alone. Like seeing Jesus, seeing Angels and all sorts. Well, since these are personal encounter, we can verify , we can't measure. Just their words alone.

Now, why is Jesus selective in visiting those individuals alone? He want Salvation for us all, he ought to manifest himself in us all.

Now, Islam call on the human intellect thru a varied means in YOUR OWN SOUL. And when people do that, most time, they choose Islam. Do you know why? It's teachings are Logical, relatable and practicable.

Who verified Muhammad’s claim that he was receiving revelation from Jibreel?

Lukuluku69:


By Allah I never heard of the guy until his issues. That said, the guy gained came via the Media. I did my research on him and it was not as if he was a Scholar of Islam. He was just living off the Media. Those kind of people don't attract my attention really but kids of nowadays. So, I never heard of him. Never.

Several weeks , he was in the news especially propagated by Muslims where he was promoting Islam

Lukuluku69:

And LYING TO ABOUND THE GLORY OF GOD is a Christian thing. Started by Paul and honed over Centuries by Testimonies (Read TESTIMOLIES) We all know the LIES built into your Testimonies. From Pastor this woman cannot walk since 23AD but when she got here she started walking. This Child was Born Deaf and Blind but he mentioned Jesus and the guy start to dey speak Queens English. We all know. Yet, the Pacelli School of the Blind is there no one pay them any visits. Go to Morgues and see people crying over dead relatives, both hound and old, your Pastors that can heal and wake the dead won't go their to abound God's glory but where Dem go do Offerings and pledges, Dem go full there

Even in Jesus time people died in Israel DAILY, He didn't go to raise them up.
Is this a proof that Jesus never raised the dead?

Does this mean that we can represent Islam with the fact that several Muslim Clerics were arrested for using human skull for spiritual work for his client?

https://dailypost.ng/2019/02/05/islamic-cleric-two-others-caught-human-skull-photo/

https://saharareporters.com/2021/12/27/islamic-cleric-found-human-skull-slumps-dies-nigerian-police-custody

https://punchng.com/islamic-cleric-three-others-arrested-with-human-skull-in-ogun/

TenQ:

I think her marriage has complicated things for her.
She has raised her children as Muslims (on their way to hell)
She has tried to make a sense of Islam through her knowledge of basic bible knowledge not knowing that the two are not compartible.
She speaks of the holy Spirit speaking to her not knowing that this is impossible in Islam. God is not a spirit in Islam.
She respects the husband and wouldn't want anything to trouble the marriage.

She is trying to EARN her salvation through good works, good religion and character hoping that God will understand with her piety and save her from hell.

Correct analysis. Very pathetic.

advocatejare:

Who verified Muhammad’s claim that he was receiving revelation from Jibreel?

Before they start their taqqiya:

Only Mohammed saw Jubril o!
Only Mohammed traveled to paradise and back in one Night
Only Mohammed knew that he had the power of 30 men in the other room

FxMasterz:

I like you for being straightforward and referencing my post as is. If it were your friend Antichristian, he would infuse falsehood and say what I never said. Legalwolf does that too. In his own case, he'll bring a contrary interpretation into your post and make it say what you never said. You engage maturely too except that occasionally you throw up tantrums. This I've observed about all your posts. I must commend you for that.

Yeah, before I answer your question about why Jesus doesn't manifest Himself to all, let me address your points relating to the role of Islamic logic in conversion experiences.

People want to relate with God through logic but they forget that God isn't an earthly Being. Earthly logic is irrelevant in the realm where God dwells. God is a Spirit. He dwells in the spirit realm. The logic of that realm is quiet different and far apart from earthly logic. If you approach the spirit realm with earthly logic, you'll be disappointed.

The Quran and Islam is based on earthly logic. On the surface, it looks reasonable, not until you dig deeper. TenQ and Advocatejare have extensively demonstrated that the logic of the Quran and that of Islam in general is at par with the logic of a 7th century Arabian. Or how would you defend the logic that your sperm is produced in your spinal chord? How can you defend the logic that Satan enters your mouth if you do not cover it while yawning? And a lot more that I cannot presently recall.

That's the weakness of human logic. Logic that's relevant today wouldn't be relevant tomorrow. New discoveries make certain logics obsolete. God cannot be found on the basis of ever changing logic. God is eternal.. He doesn't bend to human logic.

Now, why would Jesus appear to some and not to all

1. Jesus is always appearing to everybody. Each time you hear the gospel preached or a warning message like the ones Advocatejare and TenQ post here on Nairaland, or an admonition like the one you're now reading from me, that's Jesus knocking at the door of your heart. This is one level of manifestation. But, oftentimes, He takes the manifestation to another level. This is the Encounter Level which I'll explain in my second point below.

2. Jesus appears to people in miraculous Encounters when the following conditions are met:

i. A sincere seeker who is errornously sincere but deep down in his heart, he really wants to know the truth. This is how most people of other Faiths find Jesus. There's nothing any human can tell this set of people. They believe so much in their Faiths, howbeit, sincerely. They're serving God in all honesty and never knew they're in error. Jesus goes the extra miles to save these set of people.

ii. A lover of truth who never has the opportunity to hear the gospel but is errornously serving God with sincerity. The Bible may be banned in His country. Churches may not be allowed to operate. There's little or no means for him to hear the gospel message. Jesus would go the extra mile to save this person. This is how most Muslims who convert in some Islamic countries find Jesus.

ii. Someone who is stubbornly following errors but has somebody somewhere praying for him. This person may be even be a Christian or someone of other faiths. Generally, the devil has the persons heart. He doesn't know God and never cares to know Him. Jesus appears to this set of people in answer to someone's prayers for them. In most cases, He uses near death experiences to melt their stubborn hearts and turn them to Himself. This is how some chronic believers in other faiths, hardened criminals,
etc find Jesus. These ones don't listen to anybody. In answer to prayers, He goes all our by Himself to find these lost souls.

Jesus isn't selective on who He manifests Himself to. However, He wouldn't force Himself on you. He also doesn't waste His time on people who stubbornly wants to serve Satan. Except someone is praying for you, He leaves you to keep following your decision, knowing fully well that at the end of time, you'll give accounts of the decisions you made on earth.

Still on those TWO points and your present submission on it.

1. When people say Islam and it's Teachings are relatable, practicable and appeals to the inner soul yearnings and answers their queries most time and also to their reality, don't you think the Author of the Quran who claimed to be the Creator of ALL knows what He created and tailored commandments and rules according to what He created in humans? It is akin to a maker of car, expecting his car to enter reverse gear when the reverse gear is engaged? Or when a Car maker want his car to fly when obviously the car was not made to fly? The human Psychology and Physiology never changes. As it was in Abraham's time so it is now. Don't steal, don't do Adultery, don't worship stones ietc is TRUE for all ages regardless. So, you will see more of people with Genuine queries going with Islam. And when I mean queries, I am not talking about the ones TENQ and Adejare post here o. Those ones are asinine ones.

2. When others embrace Christianity, please find out, it is usually when they look for something to happen, a miracle, about finances about how this was me yesterday and one see me today thing. I will give you an instance. Adewale Ayuba, that Fuji Singer said he embraced Christianity because he was able to pay a Bank Loan! Can you imagine?

I can list others though but I won't.

So, what am I saying. Islam appeals to the intellect, the soul, your realities while Christianity appeals to most convert because they can get something, can become something etc.

And in no way does what TENQ and Adejare post here represents the Jesus I know walked through Judea some 2,000+ years ago.

Ask him to visit me too. SEBI he visited others, let him come to me too.

As for me throwing tantrums sometimes, Islam teaches decorum and being agreeable even when we disagree. Most of your brothers are vile on here and sometimes you return fire for fire

TenQ:

Several weeks , he was in the news especially propagated by Muslims where he was promoting Islam


Even in Jesus time people died in Israel DAILY, He didn't go to raise them up.
Is this a proof that Jesus never raised the dead?

Does this mean that we can represent Islam with the fact that several Muslim Clerics were arrested for using human skull for spiritual work for his client?

https://dailypost.ng/2019/02/05/islamic-cleric-two-others-caught-human-skull-photo/

https://saharareporters.com/2021/12/27/islamic-cleric-found-human-skull-slumps-dies-nigerian-police-custody

https://punchng.com/islamic-cleric-three-others-arrested-with-human-skull-in-ogun/

Since we can't represent Christianity with a Pastor who do rituals for people why would you represents Islam with those clerics you mentioned?

As for Andrew Tate, I repeat, I never heard of him prior to his arrest. Anyone can promote anyone, their business not mine.

advocatejare:

Who verified Muhammad’s claim that he was receiving revelation from Jibreel?

References to such claims abounds in the scriptures of the World. The Bible, the Hindu Vedas. And he was the ONLY ONE who came forward with such a CLAIM.

Lukuluku69:


Since we can't represent Christianity with a Pastor who do rituals for people why would you represents Islam with those clerics you mentioned?

As for Andrew Tate, I repeat, I never heard of him prior to his arrest. Anyone can promote anyone, their business not mine.

I didnt represent islam with your contemporary Islamic Clerics. I just did exactly what yo did.

I claimed that you Muslims

The only people who can cook up their hadiths and disrespect their Tafsirs for being fabrications can fabricate ANYTHING!

I refer to your own Islamic literatures: if Muslims wrote the books you use with your Quran and it is filled with fabrications, surely anything fraudulent is expected from them.

Aren't you the one when shown hadiths or Scholar refuse to accept what they wrote about Mohammed?

The case of Andrew Tate is just an example: nothing serious! The over hype was too much and these same people have abandoned him.
He became a muslim with no obvious change in character or personality!

TenQ:

I didnt represent islam with your contemporary Islamic Clerics. I just did exactly what yo did.

I claimed that you Muslims

I refer to your own Islamic literatures: if Muslims wrote the books you use with your Quran and it is filled with fabrications, surely anything fraudulent is expected from them.

Aren't you the one when shown hadiths or Scholar refuse to accept what they wrote about Mohammed?

The case of Andrew Tate is just an example: nothing serious! The over hype was too much and these same people have abandoned him.
He became a muslim with no obvious change in character or personality!

In your Journey thru this path of studying Religion and Faith based Writings and Books, please note that people for whatever reasons know to them write Fictitious stuff, lie, misrepresents. That the Muslims were able to identify them, classify them is a major plus for them.

Going thru the Bible, the same fictitious hands can be seen both in the Old and New Testament. Just a little over 20-30 years after Jesus, MANY GOSPELS were preached. Each different from the other that the Council had to narrow it to just Four Records is a living testimony go that fact.

The Hadith could be fabricated just like some Gospel writing were false. So, rest.

Lukuluku69:


Still on those TWO points and your present submission on it.

1. When people say Islam and it's Teachings are relatable, practicable and appeals to the inner soul yearnings and answers their queries most time and also to their reality, don't you think the Author of the Quran who claimed to be the Creator of ALL knows what He created and tailored commandments and rules according to what He created in humans? It is akin to a maker of car, expecting his car to enter reverse gear when the reverse gear is engaged? Or when a Car maker want his car to fly when obviously the car was not made to fly? The human Psychology and Physiology never changes. As it was in Abraham's time so it is now. Don't steal, don't do Adultery, don't worship stones ietc is TRUE for all ages regardless. So, you will see more of people with Genuine queries going with Islam. And when I mean queries, I am not talking about the ones TENQ and Adejare post here o. Those ones are asinine ones.

2. When others embrace Christianity, please find out, it is usually when they look for something to happen, a miracle, about finances about how this was me yesterday and one see me today thing. I will give you an instance. Adewale Ayuba, that Fuji Singer said he embraced Christianity because he was able to pay a Bank Loan! Can you imagine?

I can list others though but I won't.

So, what am I saying. Islam appeals to the intellect, the soul, your realities while Christianity appeals to most convert because they can get something, can become something etc.

And in no way does what TENQ and Adejare post here represents the Jesus I know walked through Judea some 2,000+ years ago.

Ask him to visit me too. SEBI he visited others, let him come to me too.

As for me throwing tantrums sometimes, Islam teaches decorum and being agreeable even when we disagree. Most of your brothers are vile on here and sometimes you return fire for fire

I maintain that Islam and its teachings look relatable on the surface but the reverse becomes the case after doing a deeper dig.

Christianity is completely relatable and satisfies the yearnings of the soul. A Muslim can't see that because he has been preconfigured to reject Christianity and whatever it stands for. By deceitfully representing scriptures and making the Bible say what it does not say, a Muslim sees the Bible in the very opposite dimension of what the Bible is.

Yeah, you wouldn't expect everything that God does and, or who He is to fall within the realms of human logic. The spiritual sides of God have no human vocabulary for their expressions. We can only use the closest similies. And you should expect it to be so.

Christianity has an all round appeal. It caters for the body and the spirit. It's in itself a journey. It starts from the known to the unknown. It communicates with your soul.

As I've explained before, people encounter Jesus without ever desiring Him in the first place.

The experience of Adéwálé Ayuba is similar to the experience of one Venessa here on Nairaland who became a Muslim because she had some problem solved. This type of conversion experience is not exclusive.

I don't have the full story of Adéwálé Ayuba's conversion, so I can't make any conclusion. But generally, if someone becomes a Christian just because he got some loans, he is still not a Christian.

See, a Christian is not someone who worships in a church or bear Christian names. A Christian is someone who has met Jesus and has a close walk with Him. Most people out there whom you call Christians are actually not Christians. A Christian is a disciple of Jesus Christ.

Lukuluku69:


......
1. So, what am I saying. Islam appeals to the intellect, the soul, your realities while Christianity appeals to most convert because they can get something, can become something etc.

2. And in no way does what TENQ and Adejare post here represents the Jesus I know walked through Judea some 2,000+ years ago....

1. How come you couldn't respond to my questions tasking mainly your intellect?
Islam present a Watered down Islam to her adherents: in its watered down state, its just a simple religion with lots of daily repetitions of activities. Pray 5 times daily (repeat), Give Zakat (repeat), Go for Pilgrimage (repeat) etc
When for a Logically simple religion we ask HOW, WHY...
Islam become confused and LOST: it is indeed appealing to the the intellect, the soul and your realities for them that are SHALLOW

Quran 5:101
“O you who believe! Ask not about things which, if made plain to you, may cause you trouble. But if you ask about them while the Quran is being revealed, they will be made plain to you. Allah has forgiven that, and Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Forbearing”


Islam thrive in Deception , Ignorance or , Greed of the Adherents!


2. Can you please tell me of the Jesus that walked through Judea other than
"Jesus was a Muslim who preached the Oneness of Allah and Did many miracles"

I am waiting Sir!

Lukuluku69:


Still on those TWO points and your present submission on it.

1. When people say Islam and it's Teachings are relatable, practicable and appeals to the inner soul yearnings and answers their queries most time and also to their reality, don't you think the Author of the Quran who claimed to be the Creator of ALL knows what He created and tailored commandments and rules according to what He created in humans? It is akin to a maker of car, expecting his car to enter reverse gear when the reverse gear is engaged? Or when a Car maker want his car to fly when obviously the car was not made to fly? The human Psychology and Physiology never changes. As it was in Abraham's time so it is now. Don't steal, don't do Adultery, don't worship stones ietc is TRUE for all ages regardless. So, you will see more of people with Genuine queries going with Islam. And when I mean queries, I am not talking about the ones TENQ and Adejare post here o. Those ones are asinine ones.

2. When others embrace Christianity, please find out, it is usually when they look for something to happen, a miracle, about finances about how this was me yesterday and one see me today thing. I will give you an instance. Adewale Ayuba, that Fuji Singer said he embraced Christianity because he was able to pay a Bank Loan! Can you imagine?

I can list others though but I won't.

So, what am I saying. Islam appeals to the intellect, the soul, your realities while Christianity appeals to most convert because they can get something, can become something etc.

And in no way does what TENQ and Adejare post here represents the Jesus I know walked through Judea some 2,000+ years ago.

Ask him to visit me too. SEBI he visited others, let him come to me too.

As for me throwing tantrums sometimes, Islam teaches decorum and being agreeable even when we disagree. Most of your brothers are vile on here and sometimes you return fire for fire

Additionally, you should understand that a man who knows men can also create things and make commandments that are relatable and convenient for men.

Lukuluku69:


In your Journey thru this path of studying Religion and Faith based Writings and Books, please note that people for whatever reasons know to them write Fictitious stuff, lie, misrepresents. That the Muslims were able to identify them, classify them is a major plus for them.

Going thru the Bible, the same fictitious hands can be seen both in the Old and New Testament. Just a little over 20-30 years after Jesus, MANY GOSPELS were preached. Each different from the other that the Council had to narrow it to just Four Records is a living testimony go that fact.

The Hadith could be fabricated just like some Gospel writing were false. So, rest.

But we stand by ALL that which is Authentic Canonized books of the bible!
How about if Christians start saying that some verses of the Bible were fabricated?

If Muslims will throw the Hadiths of Muhammad under the bus and Tafsirs of the Quran under the bridge AND
the Quran cannot stand alone by itself without the Hadiths and the Tafsirs,
what option do you leave us with?

TenQ:


You asked:


Here was exactly what I said:


Your argument was that they are imaginary things an IDEA!



Are gods Ideas?

What is a deity?

LordReed:


What is a deity?

1. (in Christianity and other monotheistic religions) the Creator and Ruler of the universe and source of all moral authority; the supreme being.
2. (in certain other religions) a superhuman being or spirit worshipped as having power over nature or human fortunes; a deity.
"a moon god"
3. Any invisible personality or thing you submit to as the guide over your life and activities .

TenQ:


But we stand by ALL that which is Authentic Canonized books of the bible!
How about if Christians start saying that some verses of the Bible were fabricated?

If Muslims will throw the Hadiths of Muhammad under the bus and Tafsirs of the Quran under the bridge AND
the Quran cannot stand alone by itself without the Hadiths and the Tafsirs,
what option do you leave us with?

I am afraid you still have issues understanding the thrust in some arguments. Most time, you have a closed mind on things holding on to your already formed narrow albeit wrong opinions!

Who told you that the Canonized Gospels don't have discrepancies? From the Top of my head can you decidedly tell him when the rites of "eating the flesh and drinking Jesus blood was instituted ?

The fact that you guys took it and swallowed it hook, line and sinker doesn't make the Muslims look bad when they questioned such when you referenced it. A Record they hold as fabricated anyways.

Lukuluku69:


References to such claims abounds in the scriptures of the World. The Bible, the Hindu Vedas. And he was the ONLY ONE who came forward with such a CLAIM.

There are two things that authenticate a Messanger or prophet of God
1. He performs miracles
2. He is authenticated by other prophets of God

FxMasterz:

Additionally, you should understand that a man who knows men can also create things and make commandments that are relatable and convenient for men.

Then such a man is not a man but belongs to the pantheons of the gods. But the funny thing is, that man said " these words are not mine and that I am like a man like you"

Man can't create man and a man's Lifetime is too short a time for a man to master all that Men will face in that time period.

Lukuluku69:


I am afraid you still have issues understanding the thrust in some arguments. Most time, you have a closed mind on things holding on to your already formed narrow albeit wrong opinions!

Who told you that the Canonized Gospels don't have discrepancies? From the Top of my head can you decidedly tell him when the rites of "eating the flesh and drinking Jesus blood was instituted ?

The fact that you guys took it and swallowed it hook, line and sinker doesn't make the Muslims look bad when they questioned such when you referenced it. A Record they hold as fabricated anyways.

All you need to do is is to post a verse and allow me claim that it is FABRICATED!

QED!

TenQ:

There are two things that authenticate a Messanger or prophet of God
1. He performs miracles
2. He is authenticated by other prophets of God

True.

Even though Christ did say looking for Miracles solely to authenticate a bonafide Prophet, for looking to Miracles makes you ADULTEROUS in a sense. ( Fake Prophets can do them too thereby leading people astray).

Prophet Muhammad wrought miracles too.

He was authenticated by All Scriptures of the world. The Scriptures in the hands of the Jews foretold him, the one in the hands of the Nassara foretold him. Same for the Zoroastrian Persians, the Hindu Vedas

TenQ:

All you need to do is is to post a verse and allow me claim that it is FABRICATED!

QED!

You see your ignorance again?

No Muslim will ever tell you a Verse from the Quran is FABRICATED. Non! But, you can wrongly translate them. That is why we leave it in Arabic. Words do change meanings overtime thru the ages.

When we say Fabricated, even though there are strict rules in authenticating Hadiths, we say an Hadith is Fabricated when the chain of Narrators looks dodgy. A man who lived about 50 years after the prophet can't say he HEARD OR SEEN THE PROPHET SAID SUCH AND SUCH without us asking, was he a COMPANION? Was his father a Companion?

Look at Paul, he never met Jesus ALIVE, was never a DISCIPLE, NEVER SAW JESUS yet all what Christianity believe today came from his brains. In Islam, we will throw away ALL his Letters!

Lukuluku69:


Then such a man is not a man but belongs to the pantheons of the gods. But the funny thing is, that man said " these words are not mine and that I am like a man like you"

Man can't create man and a man's Lifetime is too short a time for a man to master all that Men will face in that time period.

Man can do it. He needs books upon books to make that happen. Satan too can do it. That isn't a litmust test for determining that something is from God. There are many things in the Quran that run contrary to human logic and are scientifically incorrect. That couldn't have been God. And if you'll use that as a yardstick, almost every religion has that to say about their books. If you doubt me, just have a tit-to-tat with a Buddhist.

TenQ:

1. How come you couldn't respond to my questions tasking mainly your intellect?
Islam present a Watered down Islam to her adherents: in its watered down state, its just a simple religion with lots of daily repetitions of activities. Pray 5 times daily (repeat), Give Zakat (repeat), Go for Pilgrimage (repeat) etc
When for a Logically simple religion we ask HOW, WHY...
Islam become confused and LOST: it is indeed appealing to the the intellect, the soul and your realities for them that are SHALLOW

Quran 5:101
“O you who believe! Ask not about things which, if made plain to you, may cause you trouble. But if you ask about them while the Quran is being revealed, they will be made plain to you. Allah has forgiven that, and Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Forbearing”


Islam thrive in Deception , Ignorance or , Greed of the Adherents!


2. Can you please tell me of the Jesus that walked through Judea other than
"Jesus was a Muslim who preached the Oneness of Allah and Did many miracles"

I am waiting Sir!

Lol

You didn't task my intellect. All you did was just play words.

I can talk to you about Jesus the Nazarene but would you believe my version of him? Would you? Those who choose only FOUR out of possibly HUNDREDS of Records available then were never witnesses to the events they classify some as false and some as good.

So, rest. That is the intellect and not prancing around with copy and paste. The intellectual thing is to be in the middle and not the extreme.

TenQ:


1. (in Christianity and other monotheistic religions) the Creator and Ruler of the universe and source of all moral authority; the supreme being.
2. (in certain other religions) a superhuman being or spirit worshipped as having power over nature or human fortunes; a deity.
"a moon god"
3. Any invisible personality or thing you submit to as the guide over your life and activities .

So when I asked what is a god your response was a god is a god (a deity}?

What is a spirit?

How can you determine what an invisible personality actually is?

FxMasterz:


Man can do it. He needs books upon books to make that happen. Satan too can do it. That isn't a litmust test for determining that something is from God. There are many things in the Quran that run contrary to human logic and are scientifically incorrect. That couldn't have been God. And if you'll use that as a yardstick, almost every religion has that to say about their books. If you doubt me, just have a tit-to-tat with a Buddhist.

And I repeat, if there be such a man, he belongs to the Pantheons of the gods. With the life the Prophet lived, the troubles, the people, the conditions etc then no wonder he is acclaimed to have been the Greatest man that ever lived.

That aside, what are those things you find in the Quran that is illogical to the condition of man/human kind?

Besides, the Prophet can't read nor right, so your points about getting books falls flat. Or are you saying his Companions collect Books and read to him then he summarizes and made the Quran?

Lukuluku69:


And I repeat, if there be such a man, he belongs to the Pantheons of the gods. With the life the Prophet lived, the troubles, the people, the conditions etc then no wonder he is acclaimed to have been the Greatest man that ever lived.

That aside, what are those things you find in the Quran that is illogical to the condition of man/human kind?

Many men have done it. Budha, Krisna, etc for example. Not Mohammed alone. They can achieve it with books as well as with interactions with demons. Does that make them God? There's nothing special in what Mohammed created. The logic of the Quran itself is not sound. Thankfully, you've asked me why.

For many reasons. I don't even have to list them. I myself knew very little about Islam until I began to reading expositions upon expositions here by TenQ, Advocatejare and even Sixfiguresmart. Most times, they call on Muslims to clarify the logical defects of the Quran or Hadith but rather than provide answers you guys either run away or enter there to throw insults.

Some of the things I've read about the Quran and Hadith are so absurd that cannot see any reason why anybody would accept that as a book from heaven.

The last I have read is that Mohammed has said Satan would enter your mouth if you fail to cover it with your hand. How absurd can that be? Is that really God speaking or some man making conjectures?