Today, there are all manner of churches with different teachings and doctrines. Do all of them lead to the kingdom of heaven?
If not, what should one look out for before aligning with a church.
Please don't mention "a bible believing church," because all christian organizations believe in the bible one way or the other.

Does following/believing a first century Jewish carpenter determine your salvation?

tctrills:
Today, there are all manner of churches with different teachings and doctrines. Do all of them lead to the kingdom of heaven?
If not, what should one look out for before aligning with a church.
Please don't mention "a bible believing church," because all christian organizations believe in the bible one way or the other.

Na how you live your life. thats why it is important you study for yourself to know what is right. no be "Pastor Say"

Patented:

Na how you live your life. thats why it is important you study for yourself to know what is right. no be "Pastor Say"

So you mean churches, are pastors are not important in our spiritual journey?
Again, if the church isn't important, why did Christ lay his life for the church?
Ephesians 5:27

27 He gave his life for the church so that one day he can look at the church and see that the people are great and wonderful. The people of the church must have no dirty spot or wrinkle or any thing like that. But they are to be holy and good.

tctrills:


So you mean churches, are pastors are not important in our spiritual journey?
Again, if the church isn't important, why did Christ lay his life for the church?
Ephesians 5:27

27 He gave his life for the church so that one day he can look at the church and see that the people are great and wonderful. The people of the church must have no dirty spot or wrinkle or any thing like that. But they are to be holy and good.

The church he gave his life for meant his people. this was without borders or doctrinal dichotomy. Christ is the way, the truth and the light. it is following his teachings that brings salvation not the church you attend. On the last day some people will go and their pastors/priests/prophets etc will be left behind and vice versa.

Of course not! Only Jesus Christ saves. But if you have the spirit of God dwelling in you there’s no way you can remain in a dead “Church“ and remain comfortable/content because it’s the spirit of discernment. As a good Berean you are to scrutinize the teachings with God’s word and look for wherever the truth is being preached in spirit and truth!

Patented:


The church he gave his life for meant his people. this was without borders or doctrinal dichotomy. Christ is the way, the truth and the light. it is following his teachings that brings salvation not the church you attend. On the last day some people will go and their pastors/priests/prophets etc will be left behind and vice versa.

But then isn't important to align with a church that follows the doctrines of Christ? Or does Christ not have a doctrine?

Benekkk:
Of course not! Only Jesus Christ saves. But if you have the spirit of God dwelling in you there’s no way you can remain in a dead “Church“ and remain comfortable/content because it’s the spirit of discernment. As a good Berean you are to scrutinize the teachings with God’s word and look for wherever the truth is being preached in spirit and truth!

Good point, but from reading the new testament, we learn that the spirit comes from the laying on of hands of the brethren. So someone in a dead church can't have the spirit in the first place. How does such know the church to join?

tctrills:
Today, there are all manner of churches with different teachings and doctrines. Do all of them lead to the kingdom of heaven?
If not, what should one look out for before aligning with a church.
Please don't mention "a bible believing church," because all christian organizations believe in the bible one way or the other.

Church means Circus 🎪 LITERALLY.

2 Peter chapter 2 talks about false prophets. However, let me make emphasis on 2Peter 2:18-20.

In summary, these verses says that the false prophets allure people by speaking swelling words. In the end, the state the people who they enticed through their lies becomes worse than in the beginning. Verse 19 says, they are brought to boundage.

So back to your question, the kind of church we attend can influence ones salvation.

To determine the church to fellowship with, you will need the Holy Spirit.

John 16:13 says that the Holy Spirit will guide to all truth.......

If you truly want to worship God the right way and at the right place, consult the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit speaks to us if we truly want to hear him.

world123:

To determine the church to fellowship with, you will need the Holy Spirit. John 16:13 says that the Holy Spirit will guide to all truth....... If you truly want to worship God the right way and at the right place, consult the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit speaks to us if we truly want to hear him.

Does the Holy Spirit speak to people who don't know what is in the Bible?

So if someone doesn't know what the Bible say the Holy Spirit will speak to him or her about the church he should attend?

I thought Jesus' disciples were sent to go and meet people in their homes {Matthew 10:11-13} and those sent to you will continue TEACHING you so that you get BAPTIZED as one of them! Matthew 28:19-20

So why thinking of which church to attend when you already have those that came preaching and teaching you in your own house? Romans 10:13-15

world123:
To determine the church to fellowship with, you will need the Holy Spirit.

John 16:13 says that the Holy Spirit will guide to all truth.......

If you truly want to worship God the right way and at the right place, consult the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit speaks to us if we truly want to hear him.

But the Holy Spirit is given by the laying on of hands of the brethren.
Can one get the Holy Spirit in a false church?

Acts 8:17-19
Then they began laying their hands on them, and they were receiving the Holy Spirit. Now when Simon saw that the Spirit was bestowed through the laying on of the apostles’ hands, he offered them money, saying, “Give this authority to me as well, so that everyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit.

Acts 19:6

And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking with tongues and prophesying.

tctrills:

But the Holy Spirit is given by the laying on of hands of the brethren.
Can one get the Holy Spirit in a false church?

Acts 8:17-19
Then they began laying their hands on them, and they were receiving the Holy Spirit. Now when Simon saw that the Spirit was bestowed through the laying on of the apostles’ hands, he offered them money, saying, “Give this authority to me as well, so that everyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit.

Acts 19:6

And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking with tongues and prophesying.

Let's consider Luke 24:49 , Act 1:8, and Act 2: 1-5

Let me summarise the verses above;

Jesus gave an instruction they should remain in Jerusalem till they had received power. And they shall receive these power after the Holy Ghost had come upon them. And while they were at Jerusalem, the Holy Ghost came upon them after Jesus had left. Without anyone touching them.

Back to your question, you can receive the holy spirit without anyone laying hands on you. The Bible says in the book of John 16:24 that we have not received, simply because we have not asked in the name of Jesus. So you can pray for it.

With all humility, I encountered the holy spirit in my bedroom. I encourterd Jesus in my dream, I received the gift of speaking in tongues in my dream.

All you have to do is live right and raise an altar of God, for worship, studying the Bible and praying. Pick a specific of time of prayer and keep to the time. After some time you start feeling his presence.

world123:


Let's consider Luke 24:49 , Act 1:8, and Act 2: 1-5

Let me summarise the verses above;

Jesus gave an instruction they should remain in Jerusalem till they had received power. And they shall receive these power after the Holy Ghost had come upon them. And while they were at Jerusalem, the Holy Ghost came upon them after Jesus had left. Without anyone touching them.

Back to your question, you can receive the holy spirit without anyone laying hands on you. The Bible says in the book of John 16:24 that we have not received, simply because we have not asked in the name of Jesus. So you can pray for it.

With all humility, I encountered the holy spirit in my bedroom. I encourterd Jesus in my dream, I received the gift of speaking in tongues in my dream.

All you have to do is live right and raise an altar of God, for worship, studying the Bible and praying. Pick a specific of time of prayer and keep to the time. After some time you start feeling his presence.

So you are saying that the Apostles going from church to church to lay hands was unnecessary right.

Also, in Timothy we read, Do not neglect your gift, which was given you through prophecy when the body of elders laid their hands on you.

If anyone could pray to receive the Holy Spirit then the Apostles were not making good use of their time traveling from place to place to give baptized members the gift of the Spirit.

Again why did the Apostles need to come to Samaria.
Read the verses below from Acts 8

12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.

14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:

15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:

16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,

19 Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.

MaxInDHouse:


Does the Holy Spirit speak to people who don't know what is in the Bible?

So if someone doesn't know what the Bible say the Holy Spirit will speak to him or her about the church he should attend?

I thought Jesus' disciples were sent to go and meet people in their homes {Matthew 10:11-13} and those sent to you will continue TEACHING you so that you get BAPTIZED as one of them! Matthew 28:19-20

So why thinking of which church to attend when you already have those that came preaching and teaching you in your own house? Romans 10:13-15

You are right, I want you to know that God is merciful. If you are determined to know the truth, he will be speak.

Let's consider Mark 7: 26-30, a conversation between Jesus and a Greek woman. He was not meant to heal people from her side. But the woman pleaded and Jesus healed her.

Let's looks at Luke 18: 1-7. These verses talks about asking for something without giving up; praying without ceasing. Trust me, if you are serious to know the truth, God will speak.

God Almighty is merciful.

tctrills:



So you are saying that the Apostles going from church to church to lay hands was unnecessary right.

Also, in Timothy we read, Do not neglect your gift, which was given you through prophecy when the body of elders laid their hands on you.

If anyone could pray to receive the Holy Spirit then the Apostles were not making good use of their time traveling from place to place to give baptized members the gift of the Spirit.

Again why did the Apostles need to come to Samaria.
Read the verses below from Acts 8

12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.

14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:

15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:

16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,

19 Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.

My God! I never said your points are invalid. I wrote based on what the OP said. He said since finding the right church is difficult, what can he do?

Mind you, I also received a particular gift through the prayer of a man of God I met on road. I had never met him before then. He called me and said God asked him to pray for me. After that day, I noticed I had gotten a new gift.

So I am not disputing what you have said. God works in diverse ways

world123:


My God! I never said your points are invalid. I wrote based on what the OP said. He said since finding the right church is difficult, what can he do?

Mind you, I also received a particular gift through the prayer of a man of God I met on road. I had never met him before then. He called me and said God asked him to pray for me. After that I noticed I had gotten a new gift.

So I am not disputing what you have said. God works in diverse ways

Still the question remains, since the Holy Spirit comes via the laying on of hands so how do they find the right church in the first place.
If someone is seeking the right church what would be your instructions to him?

tctrills:


Still the question remains, since the Holy Spirit comes via the laying on of hands so how do they find the right church in the first place.
If someone is seeking the right church what would be your instructions to him?

I don't enjoy argument, so I will just leave you to your maker.

If you really need answers, read all my response to these post, you will get the answer you need.

God bless you.

world123:


I don't enjoy argument, so I will just leave you to your maker.

If you really need answers, read all my response to these post, you will get the answer you need.

God bless you.

I am not asking for an argument, I am asking for your Bible backed opinion. How does one who hasn't received the Holy spirit know the right church?

Please permit me to engage you a little. Then you may find out that your question wasn't structured properly.

tctrills:
Today, there are all manner of churches with different teachings and doctrines. Do all of them lead to the kingdom of heaven?

The endpoint in our Christian race isn't the Kingdom Of God, that's actually the starting point.
The Kingdom Of God (Heaven) in simplest terms actually means, living on Earth like you'd live if you were actually in Heaven.
I'm other words, it means, living in Righteousness, Peace and Joy.

If not, what should one look out for before aligning with a church.
Please don't mention "a bible believing church," because all christian organizations believe in the bible one way or the other.

I think we should remember the name of the group we want to be associated with.
So if we want to call ourselves Christians, which means: being like Christ, then we should watch out for the Church that actually behave as Christ behaves (Church means the people, not the pastor).

In the words of Paul, “Imitate me, (but only) as I imitate Christ.”

So we should look for the group of people that behave like Christ, imitate their pastor or shepherd only in the ways that he/she imitates Christ.
Then surely, we'll end up with Christ. (The opposite is also applicable, imitate the devil and end up with him).

Now this whole journey leads to Heaven itself, first.
Then once it is time, and Earth is renovated back to normal, we move back to Earth 2.0... Adam and Eve status

AnAbnormalHuman:
Please permit me to engage you a little. Then you may find out that your question wasn't structured properly.



The endpoint in our Christian race isn't the Kingdom Of God, that's actually the starting point.
The Kingdom Of God (Heaven) in simplest terms actually means, living on Earth like you'd live if you were actually in Heaven.
I'm other words, it means, living in Righteousness, Peace and Joy.


I think we should remember the name of the group we want to be associated with.
So if we want to call ourselves Christians, which means: being like Christ, then we should watch out for the Church that actually behave as Christ behaves (Church means the people, not the pastor).

In the words of Paul, “Imitate me, (but only) as I imitate Christ.”

So we should look for the group of people that behave like Christ, imitate their pastor or shepherd only in the ways that he/she imitates Christ.
Then surely, we'll end up with Christ. (The opposite is also applicable, imitate the devil and end up with him).

Now this whole journey leads to Heaven itself, first.
Then once it is time, and Earth is renovated back to normal, we move back to Earth 2.0... Adam and Eve status

Mental psychosis, this thing really Believes in heaven, sky 😂😂


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWjmbEglYk4?si=sq3BCk_Er1JdmMY-

AnAbnormalHuman:

So if we want to call ourselves Christians.

Truly, intellectuals can be enslaved.

Tctrills, your question requires broad reply. It needs multifaceted response.

Let me start from this angle.

The truth of the matter is that you cannot be more righteous than the person whom you submit to as your "pastor". A servant cannot be a master to his/her master.

You see, every single individual who sets out to become a "pastor" is under the influence of one spirit or the other - he or she is led by one or more spirits ---- good or bad spirits. Anyone who submits himself or herself, as in become a follower of such "pastor", is under the influence of whatever spirits that lead him/her, I mean the "pastor". It may not be so at the initial time, but it will, most definitely, become so along the line.

The Creator, the one and only true God, is the Father of the spirits of all human beings and only he can be connected with the spirits of his creatures. The spirits of human beings emanate from him and report to him. Our spirits are active in our lives when we are connected to him --- the Source of our spirits. When we are in this state, we can do his will. When we are separated from him, that is, our spirits are not in tune with his Spirit, no matter how brief or for how long, we cannot do his will. Anyone who is in this state, this condition, is dead spiritually and cannot do his will. Such an individual, who is not led by the Spirit of his/her Maker, is dead spiritually and it doesn't matter if he/she has a legion of demons in him/her. He/she comes alive whenever he/she is led by his/her spirit, which, of course, is connected with and led by the Spirit of our Father in heaven. This is because the spirit which emanates from the Father in heaven cannot do evil. It is impossible for his Spirit to do evil. People do evil only when they are separated from our Father in heaven.

Humans are mostly connected soullishly with those that they call spiritual fathers and mothers. Whatever spirits that influence such "pastors" will, most definitely, influence them. Whatever lifestyle that such "pastor", I mean the spiritual father or mother of such people, lives, albeit behind the scenes, will be exhibited by his/her followers/members both secretly and openly. Whatever you find in such "pastor", be it pride, greed, sexual immorality of all sorts, hypocrisy, witchcraft, covetousness, false humility, lying, falsehood, etc, you will find in his/her followers/members. When a servant of the demons is speaking/preaching, he or she is releasing demons through his own her mouth, coming from inside him/her, all those who are listening to/watching him/her, especially who have submitted themselves to him/her, will be under the influence of such demons. Only those whose spirits are active, by virtue of the connection with the Spirit of truth, will escape such influence.

Matthew 23: 15 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are.

2 Peter 2:17 These people are springs without water and mists driven by a storm. Blackest darkness is reserved for them. 18 For they mouth empty, boastful words and, by appealing to the lustful desires of the flesh, they entice people who are just escaping from those who live in error. 19 They promise them freedom, while they themselves are slaves of depravity—for “people are slaves to whatever has mastered them.”

The Body of the Messiah is not a building. The Body of the Messiah is made up of all races, tribes, languages and ethnicities. The Body of the Messiah is made up of people from different countries of the world. All those who obey him, by obeying his Commandments, make up his Ekklesia, his called-out/set-apart ones --- what you call "church", I suppose.

When, we, his called-out ones, gather, we discuss his Scriptures and teach one another with the wisdom he has given to us as he sees fit. When we meet, we encourage, teach and admonish one another as his Spirit leads. We don't follow anyone but the Scriptures. Salvation can be found only in the Word of the Almighty. So, when we gather and anyone amongst us shares something that is contrary to the Scriptures, we will call his attention to it and correct him there and then. This is because we all study the Scriptures for ourselves and all have the Set-apart Spirit, by that fact, our spirits are active. When we gather, each one shares with the others whatever the Spirit of truth has placed in his heart. The others will know when an erroneous message has been shared. We may have different gifts, we are all equal at the same pedestal as brothers and are led by the same Spirit of truth. This is the Body/Ekklesia/Church of the Messiah. This is the Ekklesia(Church) of the Messiah. This is how the Body/Ekklesia/Church of the Messiah works and functions. This is the way.

So, the people you gather with in the name of studying the Scripture with "influence" your righteous walk. After all:

1 Corinthians 5: 9 I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10 not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. 11 But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.

Proverbs 4: 23 Above all else, guard your heart,
for everything you do flows from it.

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, YHVH knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of the Messiah depart from iniquity.

Ephesians 5: 3 But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God’s holy people.

I had to say all that for clarity. Those for whom the message is intended will get it.

El Elohe Yahshrael! Hallelu YAH!

AnAbnormalHuman:
Please permit me to engage you a little. Then you may find out that your question wasn't structured properly.



The endpoint in our Christian race isn't the Kingdom Of God, that's actually the starting point.
The Kingdom Of God (Heaven) in simplest terms actually means, living on Earth like you'd live if you were actually in Heaven.
I'm other words, it means, living in Righteousness, Peace and Joy.


I think we should remember the name of the group we want to be associated with.
So if we want to call ourselves Christians, which means: being like Christ, then we should watch out for the Church that actually behave as Christ behaves (Church means the people, not the pastor).

In the words of Paul, “Imitate me, (but only) as I imitate Christ.”

So we should look for the group of people that behave like Christ, imitate their pastor or shepherd only in the ways that he/she imitates Christ.
Then surely, we'll end up with Christ. (The opposite is also applicable, imitate the devil and end up with him).

Now this whole journey leads to Heaven itself, first.
Then once it is time, and Earth is renovated back to normal, we move back to Earth 2.0... Adam and Eve status

I am not sure you have answered the question. It seems you spent more time explaining your doctrine of heaven and earth. Now you say we should look for a group of people that behave like Christ but in every group, there are both good and bad people. I have people from different denominations who have many Christlike attributes. I am sure even you have seen many such in different organizations. That's why I said you have not answered the question.

elated177:
The Body of the Messiah is not a building. The Body of the Messiah is made up of all races, tribes, languages and ethnicities. The Body of the Messiah is made up of people from different countries of the world. All those who obey him, by obeying his Commandments, make up his Ekklesia, his called-out/set-apart ones --- what you call "church", I suppose.

When, we, his called-out ones gather, we discuss his Scriptures and teach one another with the wisdom he has given to us as he sees fit. When we meet, we encourage, teach and admonish one another as his Spirit leads. We don't follow anyone but the Scriptures. Salvation can be found only in the Word of the Almighty. So, when we gather and anyone amongst us shares something that is contrary to the Scriptures, we will call his attention to it and correct him there and then. This is because we all study the Scriptures for ourselves and all have the Set-apart Spirit, by that fact, our spirits are active. When we gather, each one shares with the others whatever the Spirit of truth has placed in his heart. The others will know when an erroneous message has been shared. We may have different gifts, we are all equal at the same pedestal as brothers and are led by the same Spirit of truth. but different gifts. This is the Body/Ekklesia/Church of the Messiah. This is the Ekklesia(Church) of the Messiah. This is how the Body/Ekklesia/Church of the Messiah works and functions. This is the way.

So, the people you gather with can influence your walk.

I had to say all that for clarity.

How do you tell the right people or the right churches. What signs should set them apart.

world123:


You are right, I want you to know that God is merciful. If you are determined to know the truth, he will be speak.

Let's consider Mark 7: 26-30, a conversation between Jesus and a Greek woman. He was not meant to heal people from her side. But the woman pleaded and Jesus healed her.

Let's looks at Luke 18: 1-7. These verses talks about asking for something without giving up; praying without ceasing. Trust me, if you are serious to know the truth, God will speak.

God Almighty is merciful.

Today God only speak to people who are in line with what Jesus taught:

Long ago God spoke to our forefathers by means of the prophets on many occasions and in many ways. Now at the end of these days he has spoken to us by means of a Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the systems of things. Hebrews 1:1-2

That is what Malachi foretold when he said God will send His angels to go and note those deliberating on HIS name and His word {Malachi 3:16} for your information that's how your name can enter into the book of life {Revelations 20:15} Jesus expressly said that he will only be in the midst of two or three persons who are deliberating on how to do God's will {Matthew 18:20} so don't think God will speak with anyone today because God's word is complete {1 Corinthians 13:10} so it's through careful reading, diligent study, thorough meditation and fervent prayers we can listen to God not directly anymore!

Now back to the OP:

Does The Church You Attend Determine Your Salvation?
YES!
Because it's through your participation in doing God's will along with other faithful ones that you can be saved!

Note how it goes between Jesus and one Jewish young man.

The man has always kept God's laws but he doesn't want to forgo his prestige in order to join Jesus' group who were vilified and always humiliated back in the first century Jewish community.
Jesus declared that the man can't be saved! Luke 18:18-23

So it's compulsory we RECOGNIZED the group that's doing God's will today so that we can also contribute our quota no matter how little or much we can do! Matthew 25:40-46

tctrills:


I am not sure you have answered the question. It seems you spent more time explaining your doctrine of heaven and earth. Now you say we should look for a group of people that behave like Christ but in every group, there are both good and bad people. I have people from different denominations who have many Christlike attributes. I am sure even you have seen many such in different organizations. That's why I said you have not answered the question.

Yh the question didn't seem right.
I think I pointed that out in my reply.

Others have answered your question properly but I just wanted to point you (on what to search for) in another direction.

Like you said, many groups have good and bad eggs.
If you don't find the perfect group, and you really want to join a Church group, at least remember to imitate them, but only in the ways they imitate Christ.

AnAbnormalHuman:

only in the ways they imitate Christ.

Christ condemned all existing religious sects in the first century and established his own.
He told all nice people in the condemned sects to leave and join his own disciples so if you're not doing the same or joining a group that's doing the same then you are NOT imitating Christ!

AnAbnormalHuman:



If you don't find the perfect group, and you really want to join a Church group, at least remember to imitate them, but only in the ways they imitate Christ.

Chain loving Jewish slave playing the game of one-upmanship, tell me about your circus group.

You are Barren and I will expose it. I'm still waiting for you to post the dictionary link of where you read Hebrew elohim as god or is God, how do you pronounce small and big letters, later on I'll teach you how god became God