.
You said I posted wrong info; which is/are?

Other Nigerian nationalities could learn from our way of prostration. Negro_Nations, thanks for the clarification. If I hadn't asked, I might not have understood the significance.

^You're not very coordinated and dont seem nigerian at all going by your posts here.

When you say you have jebu and yoruba royal ancestry, what does that mean?

Where is your actual hometown and where is your maternal side from.

Hmm, Interesting, anyway its nice to see full grown women and men prostrating for their elders. Yoruba people take age and respect very seriously indeed. Nowadays men usually bow and ladies bend the knees, but may also go all the way depending on the person and the occasion. The great thing about it is that you do not have to be rich for people to prostrate for you, you just have to make sure you are not an Agbaya.

I have also noticed that the Japanese and Chinese also bow to each other.

Other Nigerian nationalities could learn from our way of prostration. Negro_Nations, thanks for the clarification. If I hadn't asked, I might not have understood the significance.

May GOD enlighten us all.  Make sure you pass the teaching on.  

tpia, you never know, the two of you might be related - and since you are curious, on mother's side!  


I went back and read all the responses, I didnt know someone was asking for the meaning of Idoba'le and Ikun'le. The two also are of semitic origin and as I already explained they both have mystical meaning, particularly that of the female in a Ikun'le position - it is very potent and powerful.  There are certain rites practiced by mystics using that position to call on GOD.

On the names, Idoba'le is a two word term.  Idoba and Ile.  Separately it is Idoba ile.  Ile means ground.  Idoba is derived from ADAB which means - practice of courtesy, right conduct, and reverence.  Ikun'le is also a two word term.  Separated, it is Ikun ile.  Ikun is derived from KUN which means - Be or emanate or unveil.


We dont need to say more on these other than to agree that they are positions of moral character to share and express respect and love for the exalted members of one's immediate family, relatives, neighbors, elderly citizens, Chiefs, Kings and as well in formal social occassions to share in harmony and rejoice with inlaws.

Land of the rising Sun
Shagamu - P
Owu - M

Negro_Ntns, your latest post was fantastic. It is not enough for me to tell others that its morally upright to prostrate as it could be forgotten as time passes. This would not happen if I provide the background.

It was from Odun Ifa that I got ka be esi as cobra begat boar.

I didnt know someone was asking for the meaning of Idoba'le and Ikun'le. The two also are of semitic origin

are you sure.

i think we should look at the tonal difference between ikunle, whose literal meaning is "full ground" or occupy ground [in a way], and okun, which means sea.

the meaning of kun is not well defined yet. [btw where did you get your definition from].

it seems to be more of a syllable or morpheme than a word.

idobale : not sure about this one. Le, or ile is ground while "i" is the act of [verb]. Dob, or do'b, is a compressed form of something.

of course it could also be broken down in a different way, with oba, or doba being the operator.

Land of the rising Sun

biafra?

Shagamu - P
Owu - M

so you're saying you're ijebu, with an egba mum.

why is it you're not familiar with yoruba culture and traditions?

did you leave nigeria at an early age?

.

are you sure.

You are familiar with my cultural narrations by now. Is there any time you have found my assertions relating to Yoruba roots and customs untruthful?

i think we should look at the tonal difference between ikunle, whose literal meaning is "full ground" or occupy ground [in a way], and okun, which means sea.

You are using linear logic in your approach and trying to dissect a native custom into an activity process flow. Native customs are outgrowth of the human spirit - it exists in the heart, the emotions and the soul. It is recalled into practice from legacy imprints buried into the ancestral markers of the sub-conscious. This is deeper than a DNA and far broader than an analytical brain can be wrapped around it.

the meaning of kun is not well defined yet. [btw where did you get your definition from].

Every native custom is a stream - like water, it has a physical presence an it also has a metaphysical or mystical presence. I have reached a threshold where if I explain the mystical aspect of this custom beyond what I already shared then I am divulging knowledge that do not belong in a public forum. I will point to you however that every Muslim in the world, regardless of their race or background, if they observe the postures of salat, then they share with us in this custom of idoba'le and ikun'le. I say this because GOD, in his Mercy and Wisdom, gave to Muhammed a language, a practice and a sacredness that was already in vogue and intimate within the native cultural stream of the locales, inspite of their dismissal as unbelievers.

To shed more light on that, Arabic was the same tongue spoken by the followers of Muhammad and the non-believers; salat postures were the same rites of worship used by the unbelievers to prostrate and glorify their gods; the Kaabah was a shrine temple before the unbelievers were sacked. Muslims do the idoba'le and the ikun'le just as Yorubas do. To distinguish, Muhammed established a variant of both. Mecca and Medina were provinces of Yemen and before that, of Canaan - the two primary uproots of the many tribes that today exist within the Yoruba commonwealth. So there is a shared past between the Mecca of today and the Mecca of our ancestral consciousness. We go through many practices on a daily basis, the knowledge account of which many of us are blind, deaf and dumb on.

I will give you a truly mind boggling example. A lot of Yoruba words are cryptic - they are formulas for something else in the metaphysical dimension. In other words, they act as gateways between the seen and the unseen. So let us consider something related to the topic, say the expression "Ikun'le " - translated to English, "The kneeling of motherhood". The true meaning is "The Grace of Motherhood". What does Ikun'le to do with motherhood? Plenty!!! Every human being emanates or comes into BEING through her. The symbolical posture for BEING is the kneeling position. So we can in a way say Ikun'le is a gateway for a hidden dimension to reveal or BECOME. Likewise, the mother is a gateway for the child to be born or to BECOME. Taken together, Ikun'le takes on a divine essence - it becomes a channell for communicating between the two worlds; a code!

I have the reason for the taboo against determining the number of the Oba's children and GOD-willing,will soon post it as another topic.


Biafra ain't the land of the rising Sun

negro nts

every language can be analyzed and studied as linguistic units.

that's all i did with the ikunle and idobale references.

you're looking at language from a mystical or esoteric viewpoint while i'm checking the pragmatic one.

notwithstanding, we were still almost at the same conclusion initially, just that i'm not so much into the metaphysical stuff.

ikunle could be what you said, and it could also refer to childbirth.

also, i still think there could be a connection between ikunle and okun.

this kun seems to be a rather peculiar unit in yoruba.

words like

ikunle

okun

akun

ekun

ikun

all have kun in them and they are all significant in yoruba thought.

Tpia,

These discussions are enlightening for many people and we should keep it that way instead of arguing over which is appropriate way to interprete words. I prefer to say tongue than to say language when referring to our native way of speaking. There is a good reason for that and it connects with the approach you are using now.

To me, language is a scientific description of the process and mechanics of HOW a people construct and speak words, it is not a study of the substance or spirit of WHAT they mean or intend with the sound of the spoken word.

I have said Yoruba native tongue, or language if you prefer, contains a lot of formula for addressing needs in both aspects of consciousness and unconsciousness. Spoken word is SOUND. Sound is not made in the brain and therefore cannot belong with logic. It belongs in emotion. No one can deny that music is a very beautiful art with many social and therapeutical benefits. But Sound is even a higher and much more exalted essence than music with all its beautiful melodies. All words expressed by the tongue originate in the heart - the abode of emotions.

When I write ikun'le in isolation, with no context or interpretation associated, it looses its sense of meaning. This is so because it is void of sound. To give it sense I will need to make extra effort at elaborating and clarifying my intention. Sound does not require that. Let's look at it closely. Ikun'le and ikun'le!

I mean different things but can you tell which is what? I am sure you cannot. One is ikun'le - full house and the other is ikun'le - kneel down. In tonal sound and vowel the last e cis the differentiator, everything else is the same between the two terms. Ikun or kun is a common thread between the two. I said kun is a Yoruba formula for BEING or PRESENCE. Adekunle, Olakunle, Ibikunle (Housefull of princes, Housefull of wealth/prosperity, Housefull of children respectively). Would you say this kun meaning FULL or PRESENCE has a different root source than the kun in ikun'le which means BE or PRESENCE?

We should be moderate in how much we apply European style analytics to our native legacies. We can tolerate having Western styled expertise on our language but we should resist and deny the scrutiny of our native tongue and natural sound with the instruments and tools of empirical analysis. Sound itself as a subject of discussion is a totally whole branch of our being that I could talk from now till the next twelve months everyday sharing something new and yet never finish unveiling the full spectrum of it. But let me share for now that our tongue and its sounds belong to our ancestors, the legacy of their own spirit is imbibed in it and buried in our emotions.

E k'aro o; e k'abo o; e ku'le o; se dada ni o. . . . . . . . . what is the relevance of the ending O? It is yet another formula. "O" is the Yoruba signature for cosmic soundwave. It is the most common and widespread but not the only one we use, we also have 'FA".Difference race has its own signature. "Om" is the soundwave for the mystics of China and India; "Hu" is the soundwave for the mystics of Arabia. These people say Om or Hu many times in chants on a daily basis. Yorubas say "O" just as much but in an unconscious and inattentive way. When you curse someone and out O at the end you send it out to the cosmos as a soundwave but it carries a formula that is hidden from ordinary people. Similarly when you bless someone with an O ending it carries this same formula to the cosmos. Makes sense to becareful how we use some of these Yoruba words, does it not? It is heavily cryptic!

Aiye a yewa O, Ashe!

we should resist and deny the scrutiny of our native tongue and natural sound with the instruments and tools of empirical analysis

it's too late for that- already been done ages ago.

besides, do you really think its good for yoruba to run the risk of being left behind in this global setting?

we dont always need to wait for the whites to do something for us when we can do it ourselves.

They already codified the language centuries ago- we should move past that now and build on those basics.

like i mentioned before, we're approaching the same answer but from different viewpoints.

we also have 'FA".

that's kwara though.

I said kun is a Yoruba formula for BEING or PRESENCE

that's quite possible.

i also feel it connotes an importance, power or a beginning.

the sound is just too significantly placed to not notice this.

The culture of prostration is something of significance to people that put it to use. Inspite of this, it doesn't make it worth emulating, by those who has nothing with it. That Arabians, Chinese, Vatican, and the like practice it, doesn't make it any better or worse.

Isn't kissing the third eye to the ground more like earthing/grounding (using electrical terminology) one's ORI?

By the way, the discussion about kun got me thinking about Olokun. I wonder if Olokun has anything to do with dark matter.

Yes. Thats what it is. Mortality! In a way, it symbolizes cycle of life. In Yoruba philosophy or cosmic awareness, everyone grounds himself or herself except the King. The King is immortal!!

I mentioned sometime earlier I know why Yoruba have the taboo that the Oba does not count his children. It has to do with something that David did after which 70,000 Israelites died.

amor4ce:

I mentioned sometime earlier I know why Yoruba have the taboo that the Oba does not count his children. It has to do with something that David did after which 70,000 Israelites died.

lol no! Wake up, wake the fvck up. We got nothing to do with the bible!! Burn every bible you see, it is against you!

Members of the Celestial Church of Christ do fi ori ba ile as part of prayer and worship, 3 times especially.