By grace alone.

Lol, so you're still in this cartoon business. Anyway,,

Look closely, even the guy in the picture is doing a WORK.

He's carrying the radio on his shoulder as he walks along.

italo:

Lol, so you're still in this cartoon business. Anyway,,

Look closely, even the guy in the picture is doing a WORK.

He's carrying the radio on his shoulder as he walks along.

The radio is called FAITH: F[/b]orsaking [b]A[/b]ll [b]I [b]T[/b]rust [b]H[/b]im. That's all you need.

That's a lie. Faith WORKING through love is what we need, not mere faith.

If you were correct, the Bible would not have said: of faith, hope and love, the greatest is LOVE!

italo:

That's a lie. Faith WORKING through love is what we need, not mere faith.

If you were correct, the Bible would not have said: of faith, hope and love, the greatest is LOVE!

What were you able to deduct from this write up?

OLAADEGBU:

Simply A New Creature

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:  Not of works, lest any man should boast" (Ephesians 2:8,9).

A man dies and finds himself at the pearly gates.  An angel meets him and asks what he was doing at the gate. 

"I want to go in,"

he says. 

"Can I?,"

The angel replies,

"Here’s how it works.  You need 100 points to make it into heaven.  You tell me all the good things you’ve done, and I will give you a certain number of points for each item, depending on how good it was.  When you reach 100 points, you get in." 

"Okay?,"

the man says,

"I was married to the same woman for 50 years and never cheated on her, even in my heart." 

"That's wonderful," says the angel,

"that's worth 3 points!,"

"three points?!," the man exclaimed while wondering in his mind how he can meet up with the 100 points. 

"Well, I attended church all my life and supported its ministry with my tithes and offerings."

"terrific!," says the angel. 

"that's certainly worth a point!,"

"One point?!," he shouted. 

"I started a soup kitchen for the homeless in my city and worked in an orphanage for motherless babies." 

"Fantastic, that's good for two more points," he says. 

"Two points?!," Exasperated, the man cries,

"Well, at this rate it’ll just be by the grace of God that I ever get into heaven." 

"Bingo, 100 points!," the angel said,

"Come on in!,"

My deduction is that if you take the man in the dialogue to be one of those terrorists that brought down the WTC and took thousands of lives including theirs, then in your opinion 'the terrorist' will go to heaven because he believes its by God's grace he can go to heaven.

Is that an accurate deduction?

Is this a good assessment of your reasoning process?

italo:

My deduction is that if you take the man in the dialogue to be one of those terrorists that brought down the WTC and took thousands of lives including theirs, then in your opinion 'the terrorist' will go to heaven because he believes its by God's grace he can go to heaven.

Is that an accurate deduction?

Is this a good assessment of your reasoning process?

Lets test your own "reasoning process" and see how it stands. Could those terrorists be said to be doing good works in your opinion?

Are you dodging my questions because they are too difficult to answer?

At least I answered yours.

italo:

Are you dodging my questions because they are too difficult to answer?

At least I answered yours.

What questions? Your deduction did not make sense because those terrorists cannot be said to have done "good works" Let me rephrase my question: Do you believe the thief on the right hand of Jesus on the cross got saved?

How do you know they could not have done good works? They could have fed the hungry, attended to the sick, visited the prisoner etc even though they were terrorists. Besides its not like the man in the dialogue had no sin (because every man sins). Everyone has sinned and everyone no matter how bad must have done some good work.

So if we can replace the man in the dialogue with the terrorist, are you saying he will go to heaven?

And if you still say we cannot exchange the man for the terrorist, WHY? What makes the man better than the terrorist?

I have the answer to your question but you have to answer mine too and not dodge it. Don't try to run away when truth stares you in the face, face it!

italo:

How do you know they could not have done good works? They could have fed the hungry, attended to the sick, visited the prisoner etc even though they were terrorists. Besides its not like the man in the dialogue had no sin (because every man sins). Everyone has sinned and everyone no matter how bad must have done some good work.

You are assuming that they might have done good works but what we know is that they committed mass murder and that breaks the Moral Law of God.

italo:

So if we can replace the man in the dialogue with the terrorist, are you saying he will go to heaven?

The terrorists are not good enough to go to heaven because they broke Law.

italo:

And if you still say we cannot exchange the man for the terrorist, WHY? What makes the man better than the terrorist?

The grace of God, that is, receiving what he doesn't deserve.

italo:

I have the answer to your question but you have to answer mine too and not dodge it. Don't try to run away when truth stares you in the face, face it!

I have answered your question. Are you good enough to go to heaven?

On my own I'll never be, but if I respond to the grace of God and express my faith by living a good life, then through that grace I'll be good enough to make heaven.

italo:

On my own I'll never be, but if I respond to the grace of God and express my faith by living a good life, then through that grace I'll be good enough to make heaven.

Are you saying that God's grace is not enough, that you have to add your own good works to make heaven?

OLAADEGBU:

Are you saying that God's grace is not enough, that you have to add your own good works to make heaven?

Its through God's GRACE that I have come to have FAITH that WORKS through love, and that's how we can make heaven. Nothing can be done without God's grace. But If we do not respond in that way to the grace of God, then we won't make heaven, going by what Jesus taught.

OLAADEGBU:

The terrorists are not good enough to go to heaven because they broke Law.

The grace of God, that is, receiving what he doesn't deserve.

OLAADEGBU:

Are you saying that God's grace is not enough, that you have to add your own good works to make heaven?

Its through God's GRACE that I have come to have FAITH that WORKS through love, and that's how we can make heaven. Nothing can be done without God's grace. But If we do not respond in that way to the grace of God, then we won't make heaven, going by what Jesus taught.

OLAADEGBU:

The terrorists are not good enough to go to heaven because they broke Law.

Even if he has faith in God and asks for his Grace, would he still go to hell? (Afterall the man in the dialogue also broke God's law - everyone does - but was saved by Grace)

italo:

Its through God's GRACE that I have come to have FAITH that WORKS through love, and that's how we can make heaven. Nothing can be done without God's grace. But If we do not respond in that way to the grace of God, then we won't make heaven, going by what Jesus taught.

What do you understand by grace?  It is true that Jesus said that we should love our neighbour as ourselves and that this fulfils the Law but let me ask you; Have you ever lied, stolen, hated or looked with lust?  If you have then you have broken the Moral Law and it means that you haven't loved those people you have done these things to.  Do you still think you stand a chance of making it to heaven based on your works of love?

italo:

Even if he has faith in God and asks for his Grace, would he still go to hell? (Afterall the man in the dialogue also broke God's law - everyone does - but was saved by Grace)

I will like to know what you understand by the grace of God?  The man in the dialogue is not better than the terrorist, but he is infinitely better off.  It is like these two men on the same aeroplane, the man in the dialogue whom is wearing a parachute while the terrorist is not.  Neither man is better than the other, but the man with the parachute is certainly better off than the terrorist who is not wearing a parachute.  The difference will be seen when they both jump from the aeroplane that is about 30,000 ft in the air.  Jesus has warned us that if we jump into death without Him, we would perish (Romans 5:10; Hebrews 10:31).

Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.(Joh 6:29)
. . .the OP is either mistaken or seeks to deceive.
He should again consider Jesus' answer to this question:

The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
(Mat 19:20)

Why did you stop there?

Verse 21: "jesus said unto him, if thou wilt be perfect, go and SELL THAT THOU HAST, AND GIVE TO THE POOR, and thou shall have treasure in heaven: and COME AND FOLLOW ME."

Do we see works there? YES!

Is there any mention of faith? NO!

^I said "He should again consider Jesus' answer to this question:" And I left it open so that you may go and look up Jesus' answer. So what do you understand by this: "COME AND FOLLOW ME"?

italo:

Why did you stop there?

Verse 21: "jesus said unto him, if thou wilt be perfect, go and SELL THAT THOU HAST, AND GIVE TO THE POOR, and thou shall have treasure in heaven: and COME AND FOLLOW ME."

Do we see works there? YES!

Is there any mention of faith? NO!

YES!!! When Jesus said: "sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shall have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me"; He simply gave us the defination of faith


F - Forsaking

A - All

I - I

T - Trust

H - Him

He was telling that man "have faith in me" - Forsake all and trust in me

"COME AND FOLLOW ME", is 'WORK'.

He could have told him 'go your way and believe in me'. That would be mere FAITH, without having to do any WORK.

But to "sell all you have, give the money to the poor, come and follow him", is letting your faith work through love.

And there are still so-called christians who say you need not do anything to be saved. You just have to believe.

I shake my head for una!

When the man came with this simple direct question "good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?"

Y did Jesus not just say: 'believe in me'?

italo:

"COME AND FOLLOW ME", is 'WORK'.

He could have told him 'go your way and believe in me'. That would be mere FAITH, without having to do any WORK.

But to "sell all you have, give the money to the poor, come and follow him", is letting your faith work through love.

And there are still so-called christians who say you need not do anything to be saved. You just have to believe.

I shake my head for una!

When the man came with this simple direct question "good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?"

Y did Jesus not just say: 'believe in me'?

I have been following this thread and shaking my head for you-o

I think that the real disease lies in this distinction of Faith from Works.  Is there such a thing as Faith that expresses itself without works?

What did Jesus say to those who merely used their mouth to profess 'lord lord', even going as far as to cast out demons in his name?  According to the Without without Works supporters the simple act of casting out demons is enough to demonstrate that these people had faith.

Yet Jesus casts them aside and says 'I never knew ye'.  Is this a rejection of their faith?  Someone explain how the hell was not their faith, which could even cast out demons, enough to get them into heaven.  

It is my conviction that most do not really know what Faith is and that is why we are having this debate.

We all have faith.  I have faith that my employer will pay my salary into my account at the end of the month.  I have faith that when I flick the switch, the light will come on.  
I have faith that there is a plan for me in this world and if I let go of striving and depend entirely on it that I will be saved.  I believe that just as the lilies of the valleys and the birds of the air are taken care of so radiantly that I am more important than these and even more care is taken of me.  I call this faith in Jesus Christ.  It informs my behaviour and can be observed in my actions.  
This is quite different from believing a formula that a snake oil salesman sold me to get into a heaven that I have never seen.  It is like someone selling you a house that you've never surveyed, in fact the house is in a different country and you'll start paying the mortgage today but not get to see the house until 30 years time.  haba!  How many of you people will actually fall for that?
Furthermore you've been given a key to the house, but you meet the current owner of the house  and he tells you that the key you've been given will not get you into the house.  Afterall that is exactly what is happening when Jesus tells us that it takes more than shouting 'Lord lord' to get into his house.  Yet all these fake preachers are telling you to do is call on the name of jesus, over and over and over again they don't tell you about living a life of righteousness, just calling on the blood of jesus with some kind of fake faith that does not manifest in any actions whatsoever.

Hmmmm , , Well done!

Abeg make we no argue.
Even if you wan say works are not required to enter, at least know that Works determine how you roll up there.

Check am:

< 5solas approaches italo's office building in heaven. 2 angels are guarding the door. They stop him>
Angel 1: What are you doing?  

5solas: Hey italo na my paddy from previous life. I just wan come hail am.  

Angel 2: You DO realize you can't just drop into the city hall whenever you want right? It has to be by invitation only. [b]Mayor [/b]Italo is a very busy being. He has a city to run.

Angel 1: I'm surprised you didn't know this already  

5solas: Ah sorry. I'll see him when he's done with his duties then  

Angel 2: Speaking of duties, I just received word that you are expected to have finished sweeping "2Buff Street" by now . Have you done so?

5solas: Oh ermm no, I just thought . . . I could do that later.
. . .
<long awkwards silence>
. . .
Angel 1: Go and kneel down by that corner

2buff:

Abeg make we no argue.
Even if you wan say works are not required to enter, at least know that Works determine how you roll up there.

Check am:

< 5solas approaches italo's office building in heaven. 2 angels are guarding the door. They stop him>
Angel 1: What are you doing? 

5solas: Hey italo na my paddy from previous life. I just wan come hail am. 

Angel 2: You DO realize you can't just drop into the city hall whenever you want right? It has to be by invitation only. Mayor [/b]Italo is a very busy being. He has a city to run.

Angel 1: I'm surprised you didn't know this already 

5solas: Ah sorry. I'll see him when he's done with his duties then 

Angel 2: Speaking of duties, I just received word that you are expected to have finished sweeping "2Buff Street" by now . Have you done so?

5solas: Oh ermm no, I just thought . . . I could do that later.
. . .
<long awkwards silence>
. . .
Angel 1: Go and kneel down by that corner

Lol.  Very hilarious. You do realize though, don’t you, that admittance to that city  or the converse is based on  belief or unbelief? As you draw near that city, you will lose ALL confidence in your works and will rightfully call them [b]dung. If you are not left with faith in Christ then, there will be hell to go to.

The rich young ruler: "what must I do to inherit eternal life?"

Jesus: "keep the commandments"; "sell all you have, give the money to the poor, then come and follow me"

5solas: 'Nooo! No need for all that. Just have faith.'

italo:

The rich young ruler: "what must I do to inherit eternal life?"

Jesus: "keep the commandments"; "sell all you have, give the money to the poor, then come and follow me"

5solas: 'Nooo! No need for all that. Just have faith.'

Lol. Well I can't blame you, you obviously don't know the difference between the law and the gospel.

Ok then. Until you're ready to make a reasonable and clear point.

I wonder, was the law in the OT given in order to help the israelites to get into heaven, or to attain eternal life. Like when Moses was on the mountain top did God say to him, 'here as some rules that if the people keep it then they will inherit eternal life bla bla'.

Or was the law given to help the Israelites to conduct their relationships amongst themselves and their relationship with God?

Second Question. Can a distinction be drawn between the Law as a guide to Moral conduct, and the Law as a set of rituals that help one's relationship with God?

@italo.
Like i said earlier in my former post,
The rich man asked Jesus what he must DO to inherit Enternal life(Matt19:16).though according to him he had done everything since his childhood,but he still LACK something(:20).if he had done it all,why is it that something is still LACKING in his life?answer,ITS IMPOSSIBLE to DO to Enter,but POSSIBLE by Faith in His finished work at calvary(:26).

No! According to the discourse, he hadn't "sold everything he had and given the money to the poor".

That is a WORK!

Isn't it?

Why don't you just admit the truth?