queensmith:

lol, isn't it the person with the answered prayers that needs to logically justify it? Are praying people the only successful people?

U wanna tell me u dont offer prayers!
How do u interpret that logically!
It is a matter of faith Queen.....and stop laughing over whats not!

Kay 17:

Are you saying, some Quranic verses lose relevance in time and sometimes location? What's the authority for the Quran and what are the rules of interpretation?

Interpretation?
I though Holy Quran is based on Recitation, while the Holy Bible is based on Meditation and Application!

Kay 17:

If the lake of fire is an afterlife experience, how come living people are aware of it?

My reply to u and he/she that likes ur post.
The earlier u believe in lake of fire and heaven, the better.
Living people are aware of it cos of d warning in the Bible, revelations, testimonies....though pple wont still believe!
Dont dice with this!

Kay 17:

That doesn't come out right. If atheism is a religion, then its opposite will inevitably be: theism. If theism is a religion, then what will Islam and Christianity be??

So atheism has no spirituality connection!

ghostofsparta:


It's been a norm among Nigerians that the best form of defence is INSULTS as shown here on Nairaland by certain religionists.

Guy, cant u face d singular!

ghostofsparta:

Dear atheist, ignore these confuse lots, leave them to me....their blatant dogmas and doctrines always give me the laugh

So Im confused cos I believe in something, and u r not cos u believe in nothing!
Laughing u in Swahili!

ghostofsparta:

Don't say that na...at most Christians achieved quick flight ticket to heaven courtesy of incessant killings up north, Bauchi, Jos, etc and recently BH terrorism...jokes apart....Christians at least made corruption, greed and materialism a norm in the Nigeria societies.

You forgot to add that Nigerian...is he senator or legislator that bought a girl from Egypt to be married to him here.

At least Christianity and Islam in Nigerian achieved the best noise pollution in the world courtesy of the best ear deafening speakers.

So I can simply castigate atheism cos an atheist is misbehaving!

shymmex:

Of course I won!! Offer a decent rebuttal, when your buddy said I was ranting, huh??..

Imagine someone saying Christianity isn't European, when Jesus was created by the Europeans - and his picture is that of a white male..

Jokers!!

You continue to express your ignorance. You still think the council of Nicea was comprised mostly of Europeans? Check the records again! Plus, there's ample evidence jesus wasn't even European. He was more Palestinian. And what if he's white male? He's more of a symbol nowadays than a person at all. His present status is a result of more than 2000 years evolution from a simple supposedly knowledgeable Master to a revivalist pentecostal god. Of course, only the Europeans couldn't be said to be at work here. You might as well add Oyedepo or Oyakhilome to the numbers that have worked on a different aspect of his image. So, you simply can't pin all of this down to Europeans only. Jesus is constantly evolving! And isn't that just appropriate!?
And yes, you were ranting. You made so much factual errors in your arguments I could publish a book on them. And these are just factual errors. Apparently, these errors finally corrupted your sense of argument, so that your opinions became untenable.

ghostofsparta:


It's been a norm among Nigerians that the best form of defence is INSULTS as shown here on Nairaland by certain religionists.

And I think there's a name for this fallacy. . . .?

ayobase:

And what about if that ''imaginary'' lake of fire is real....whats gonna be ur excuse!

The truth of the matter is that I have 2 options, but you have only 1 option!
No insurance?

I see no 2 options here for you. I only see 1. And I see no way you can profit from both at the same time.

ayobase:

So, the parents should just tell them ''there is no God, so do as u like and not as I do''!
Na wa o!
''A better alternative would be for them to decide what's appropriate after achieving a level of independent reasoning.''.....like what age, without still asking the parents?

ayobase:

But it wont be ''blindness, follow follow......'' if the child turns out to be an atheist like his/her parent(s)!

Of course, as a parent what's most appropriate is to present the facts to your children. The children will decide at the end of the day what's best for them. But one can be rest assured that if the facts were unbiasedly presented, a belief in no god will naturally follow. With all the conflict inherent in the existence of two major religions side-by-side, with their gods and their books, I'd bet there'll be no reason for any sane child to choose either side.

fellis:

Sauer dude, it is quite pathetic. And the fact that many religious men are not happy with an intellectually sound woman further discourages women from broadening their knowledge.
It's like they tell themselves, "Hey, don't be too smart, just be adorable/sexy so you don't frighten the men into thinking that you'll oppose their authority after marriage."

Among men, I think it's quite clear that the ones who don't want an intellectually sound woman are the religious ones. I mean, take a look at the scriptures they brandish. It even states in there, can't remember where, that women are not supposed to raise their voices and should cover their heads, that they should be servants are something like that. Modern, hippy churches apparently don't follow these archaic instructions anymore, and this only qualifies the truth about that same book: insofar as most accept it, they have the liberty to pick and choose what to believe. The danger is now when they take these whimsical actions too far by obstinately holding on to it at every instant.
Intelligent, independent women are rare in Nigeria. And if our men of all kind have gone so far as to soil the fabrics of this nation, only such women can positively liberate the country.

.

ayobase:

So Im confused cos I believe in something, and u r not cos u believe in nothing!
Laughing u in Swahili!

God is something??

ayobase:

My reply to u and he/she that likes ur post.
The earlier u believe in lake of fire and heaven, the better.
Living people are aware of it cos of d warning in the Bible, revelations, testimonies....though pple wont still believe!
Dont dice with this!

As far as Reason is concerned, its still a proposition which you haven't yet justified. It would be crazy to run about over the mind/imagination spills out.

Also what is the authority that the Bible is the Word of God?

Well, for me, the question is will i marry a religious person? Since i am an atheist myself. I really doubt it. There will be trouble later on, especially when the kids start coming. The reason i hesitate to say a categorical No, though is that atheists are some of the most free minded people. As such, the very reason for which i expect you to understand my godlessness is the very reason i understand ur godliness. As such, to every man his own, i do not judge. Still, there will be trouble later on. I prefer someone who believes...or does not believe as i don't, as the case may be. It's tidier.

sauer:
And I think there's a name for this fallacy. . . .?

Argumentum ad hominem.

ayobase:

So Im confused cos I believe in something, and u r not cos u believe in nothing!
Laughing u in Swahili!

Ofcourse I believe in something but you are too aggressive to note that.

sauer:
Intelligent, independent women are rare in Nigeria. And if our men of all kind have gone so far as to soil the fabrics of this nation, only such women can positively liberate the country.

I see people still hold on to this fallacy.

Purist:

Argumentum ad hominem.

do not expect much more on nairaland!

ghostofsparta:

Ofcourse I believe in something but you are too aggressive to note that.

My bad!
Im sorry then!

sauer:
Yes, I have met female atheists. I am particularly struck by their sane reasoning, their desire to know, their openness and above all, their impressive world view. Many women atheists I have met can carry on fantastic conversations on philosophy, music, psychology or other highly specialised fields like anthropology. To find such women is rather rare, but in the end very pleasing. Quite a number of "very religious" Nigerian girls (and unfortunately guys) are often too contented with church, Nollywood, cinemas or pommes frites to give a hoot about the world.
I do sense that it's the female atheists who long to change their environment, to preach understanding to their neighbours in the light of these difficulties we face globally. For me, there is nothing more impressive that a woman who is confident, independent and absolutely sure she's as good as any man. A lot of women claim this, but we all know it's a ruse. But then, many female atheists I know or have met are very much like this; this contrasts sharply with the behaviour of their servile, christianly counterparts.

@bolded, where did you meet these girls?

IamPhantom: Well, for me, the question is will i marry a religious person? Since i am an atheist myself. I really doubt it. There will be trouble later on, especially when the kids start coming. The reason i hesitate to say a categorical No, though is that atheists are some of the most free minded people. As such, the very reason for which i expect you to understand my godlessness is the very reason i understand ur godliness. As such, to every man his own, i do not judge. Still, there will be trouble later on. I prefer someone who believes...or does not believe as i don't, as the case may be. It's tidier.

If you get married to an atheist, what guarantee do you have that she would not cheat on you? She might get bored of you one day and decide to go out and have fun with a hotter, younger guy.

to whom it may concern above who asked what my guarantee is that my atheist husband would not cheat on me. Oh well,i don't know where that came from. Being an atheist is not guarantee that a person is good,just as a person being religious is not.

Inherent in that is part of my angst againt religious people. I do not need, nor have much respect for people who need τ̣̣ђё threat of hell or τ̣̣ђё promise of heaven to do what'ڪ right.

A moral atheist is a moral person indeed. His goodness is truly innate and of his/her own freewill. Religion is a good thing. It keeps people somewhat in check,i mean,imagine d world if people weren't afraid of an angry god staring wrathfully down at them. Yes,i like religion. Only,i do not need it to do what's right but let it stay because clearly,most people do.

IamPhantom: to whom it may concern above who asked what my guarantee is that my atheist husband would not cheat on me. Oh well,i don't know where that came from. Being an atheist is not guarantee that a person is good,just as a person being religious is not.

Inherent in that is part of my angst againt religious people. I do not need, nor have much respect for people who need τ̣̣ђё threat of hell or τ̣̣ђё promise of heaven to do what'ڪ right.

A moral atheist is a moral person indeed. His goodness is truly innate and of his/her own freewill. Religion is a good thing. It keeps people somewhat in check,i mean,imagine d world if people weren't afraid of an angry god staring wrathfully down at them. Yes,i like religion. Only,i do not need it to do what's right but let it stay because clearly,most people do.

You were on track until you started typing...'A moral atheist is...'
Religion is not and would never be a good thing. How has it kept people in check? Guyana Massacre! How does it keep people in check? Al-qaeda! KKK! If you still think it does then you would agree that it also capable of letting people go out of control. I know you might argue that those are people who've mis-interpreted it and its books..therefore religion is capable of mis-direction and instigation. It nurtures intolerance, fanaticism and extremism. What we have here in Yorubaland before imported religion is a way of life shaped after a unique belief system regulated by various checks and balances.

IamPhantom: to whom it may concern above who asked what my guarantee is that my atheist husband would not cheat on me. Oh well,i don't know where that came from. Being an atheist is not guarantee that a person is good,just as a person being religious is not.

Inherent in that is part of my angst againt religious people. I do not need, nor have much respect for people who need τ̣̣ђё threat of hell or τ̣̣ђё promise of heaven to do what'ڪ right.

A moral atheist is a moral person indeed. His goodness is truly innate and of his/her own freewill. Religion is a good thing. It keeps people somewhat in check,i mean,imagine d world if people weren't afraid of an angry god staring wrathfully down at them. Yes,i like religion. Only,i do not need it to do what's right but let it stay because clearly,most people do.

Wether religion exists or not, good people will be good nd bad people will be bad. I know people who are very religious, even to the extent that they hold visible positions in churches yet they will sleep with anything under skirts. Havent we heard stories of MOGs who cheated on their wives? Jimmy Swagart was caught with a protitute, Francis Wale Oke impregnated his secretary, Vincent Odulele was jailed in the UK for being a pedophile. These are just a few cases out of several that go unheard. A moral person will be moral irrespective his/her beliefs are. There are several ladies who go to church/mosques regularly yet sleep arrd. Religion is not a guarantee that my wife will not cheat on me, repect and morality taught to her by her parents and her personal commitment to keeping vows are the things that will do the trick.

ghostofsparta:

You were on track until you started typing...'A moral atheist is...'
Religion is not and would never be a good thing. How has it kept people in check? Guyana Massacre! How does it keep people in check? Al-qaeda! KKK! If you still think it does then you would agree that it also capable of letting people go out of control. I know you might argue that those are people who've mis-interpreted it and its books..therefore religion is capable of mis-direction and instigation. It nurtures intolerance, fanaticism and extremism. What we have here in Yorubaland before imported religion is a way of life shaped after a unique belief system regulated by various checks and balances.

Whoever or whatever can make you believe absurdities will make you comit attrocities. Religion makes people believe absurdities hence the attrocities you cited above. The yoruba culture was a beautiful one until these two blood letting and money mongering belief systems crept into our communities. Now we look at our heritage with disgust because it doesnt conform to the western dictates. I have never heard Sango worshipers go to war with Ogun worshiper, neither have I heard Osun worshipers bicker with Oya adherent but what do we have today. For me I can marry anybody so long you allow me to live with my belief systems and you dont force my children to believe who or what they do not know.

^^good point!

i hope you can pick τ̣̣ђё hint of sarcasm in my spiel. I understand exactly what you mean,as a friend aptly put it "people killing people over their imaginary friends". What i do mean is that in τ̣̣ђё absence of extremism,religion has it'ڪ place. It'ڪ not for nothing it'ڪ called τ̣̣ђё opium of τ̣̣ђё masses.

You cannot begin to imagine for how many,it is τ̣̣ђё threat of hell that keeps 'em sane, it'ڪ τ̣̣ђё promise of hope in their god,whatever that brings 'em from d edge of despAir. They believe dis shit,they need it and i say let them!!!. Not generalizing.

For you and i though,we do not need any of that. It is enough to do right. Cuz right is right,not because some sovereign yet terminally flawed being asked us to. But face it, if Most people didn't think they had a judgement day to answer on n a hell to face,damn!! τ̣̣ђё world would turn on it'ڪ face.

YouArePhantom

What's your take regarding the Yorubas deities?

Would you think ours too is another form of super-duper-stitions put in place by those in powers then to control and checkmate the lands in the olden days?

Would you reckon that the threats of those deities are fore-fathers propitiated were used to keep people in sane?

Was it their masses opium then? noting despite that it didn't offer any reward of heaven or hell