osifred:

@bolded, there is no point to prove anything, how can we denounce anything, when there has never being a link of the ogba man being traced to the igbo lineage.
since you want to learn i can assure you that the story of ogba emigrating from the old bini kingdom is not one concocted by jealous/paranoid enemies of ndigbo as you put it. it is the mythology that has being passed from generation immemorial. if any one has to prove anything it is you who have to tell me how the ogba man is from ibo. please and please again do not make reference of Sen. Francis Ellah claiming the ogba man is igbo because that will lead to something else, for the main time just accept in good faith that he made that statement for personal interest.

And who told you that those that are denouncing being Igbo are not doing so for their personal interest. I really don't care what Ogba people or any Igboid group in rivers state choose to call themselves. But what i don't like is people spreading lies just to deny the obvious. Ok, since you say Ogba people migrated from benin, are you insinuating that they are bini and not Igbos? What will you also say about Onitsha people thaat migrated from the same benin but are still Igbos. Like i said, i have nothing to gain from Ogba people calling themselves whatever.

afam4eva:
And who told you that those that are denouncing being Igbo are not doing so for their personal interest. I really don't care what Ogba people or any Igboid group in rivers state chooses to call themselves. But what i don't like is people spreading lies just to deny the obvious. Ok, since you say Ogba people migrated from benin, are you insinuating that they are bini and not Igbos? What will you also say about Onitsha people thaat migrated from the same benin but are still Igbos. Like i said, i have nothing to gain from Ogba people calling themselves whatever.

@bolded maybe you are right, but i am yet to see how denouncing being igbo will advance anybody's personal interest (especially the ogbas). they are now neither igbos or binis but ogba not withstanding. pls tell me so i can learn. Apart from the similarity of language which am sure trunkpunsher and i has answered, why do you consider the ogba people as ibo? because as i said earlier i have never heard or known are trace of ogba being igbo.

osifred:

@bolded maybe you are right, but i am yet to see how denouncing being igbo will advance anybody's personal interest (especially the ogbas). they are now neither igbos or binis but ogba not withstanding. pls tell me so i can learn. Apart from the similarity of language which am sure trunkpunsher and i has answered, why do you consider the ogba people as ibo? because as i said earlier i have never heard or known are trace of ogba being igbo.

The same reason why anyone would consider Ogba to be Igbo is the same reason why anyone will equally consider Ngwa Igbo. What makes Ngwa Igbo and not Ogba. Pls be sincere in your reply.

afam4eva:
The same reason why anyone would consider Ogba to be Igbo is the same reason why anyone will equally consider Ngwa Igbo. What makes Ngwa Igbo and not Ogba. Pls be sincere in your reply.

i knew you did ask this question. Ellah contested for president. i hope you know what it means if the igbos support his cause, he opted to attend the constitution conference under ndigbo because he was not given the opportunity to represent the ogba as the opportunity was given to the oba of ogbaland. the ogba people petitioned his being in the constiutional conference as member of ohnazendigbo.

let me ask you a question if an ogba man becomes the president of Nigeria, will you consider it the turn of an ibo man ruling?

osifred:

i knew you did ask this question. Ellah contested for president. i hope you know what it means if the igbos support his cause, he opted to attend the constitution conference under ndigbo because he was not given the opportunity to represent the ogba as the opportunity was given to the oba of ogbaland. the ogba people petitioned his being in the constiutional conference as member of ohnazendigbo.

let me ask you a question if an ogba man becomes the president of Nigeria, will you consider it the turn of an ibo man ruling?

In rotational presidency, there's no such thing as the turn of Igbos. It was done according to geo-political zones. If an Ogba man becomes the president, that will be the turn of the south-south and not Igbos. Mind you there are also Igbos in Delta state.

osifred:

@bolded maybe you are right, but i am yet to see how denouncing being igbo will advance anybody's personal interest (especially the ogbas). they are now neither igbos or binis but ogba not withstanding. pls tell me so i can learn. Apart from the similarity of language which am sure trunkpunsher and i has answered, why do you consider the ogba people as ibo? because as i said earlier i have never heard or known are trace of ogba being igbo.

Neither you nor I knew the ethnic make up of ancient Bini Kingdom. Binis have boundary with the Igbo. Just like Ezechima moved from Bini, so did Akalaka (both are Igbo names).
Okirika and Kalabari that have extended Igbo mixing and influence are not Igbos, then why Ogba? This is because Ogba were never a different people from the Igbos.

Igbos are a group of people with shared language, culture and religion.

Obiagu1:

Neither you nor I knew the ethnic make up of ancient Bini Kingdom. Binis have boundary with the Igbo. Just like Ezechima moved from Bini, so did Akalaka (both are Igbo names).
Okirika and Kalabari that have extended Igbo mixing and influence are not Igbos, then why Ogba? This is because Ogba were never a different people from the Igbos.

Igbos are a group of people with shared language, culture and religion.

I don't know why people don't consider the bolded when they throw bini kingdom around. For all we know, benin kingdom could have been a multi-cultural kingdom. If not, tell me why bini language is not widely spoken even though they had one of the largest and most powerful kingdoms in Nigeria,

Abagworo: The Ogba ancestors divided the earth into two parts, which they called “Oru” and “Igmo“ respectively. By the former term, Ogbas referred to riverine people. By the latter, they meant inhabitants of the hinterland. Both parts represented to them the whole world, which they called “Oruligmo” that is, “Oru” and “Igmo” an idiom still current in Ogba. When an Ogba says Oruligmo, he means all the earth, all human beings. Who would object when Oruligmo have accepted?
 
Who would venture when they have declined? The general attitudes and customs of Ogbas themselves appear to be more Oru than Igmo, though the local tongue is now obviously more Igmo than Oru. Indeed the traditional customs are clearly derived from both sources. For example, the proud and graceful owu masquerade and asawa dances have their origin in Oru; whereas the troublesome, though, mysterious and powerful Okorosu, comes from igmo and speaks nkaba (a deeper word for Igmo) in a haughty, deathlike manner, through his nose, like the ghost that it is supposed to be!
 From their attitude and customs, Ogbas appear to believe that they occupy a central position in the world, between Oru and Igmo, from where they survey all the activities of mankind, and mock, praise, deride, appreciate or emulate them as the occasion demands. Some of the customs create the vague impression of people standing between the living and the dead, or between paradise and hell, or between the devil and the deep blue sea.
 
 
 
 
 http://ogbakingdom.com/ogba-view-of-cosmogony-2/

osifred:

i knew you did ask this question. Ellah contested for president. i hope you know what it means if the igbos support his cause, he opted to attend the constitution conference under ndigbo because he was not given the opportunity to represent the ogba as the opportunity was given to the oba of ogbaland. the ogba people petitioned his being in the constiutional conference as member of ohnazendigbo.

let me ask you a question if an ogba man becomes the president of Nigeria, will you consider it the turn of an ibo man ruling?

Abagworo: The Ogba ancestors divided the earth into two parts, which they called “Oru” and “Igmo“ respectively. By the former term, Ogbas referred to riverine people. By the latter, they meant inhabitants of the hinterland. Both parts represented to them the whole world, which they called “Oruligmo” that is, “Oru” and “Igmo” an idiom still current in Ogba. When an Ogba says Oruligmo, he means all the earth, all human beings. Who would object when Oruligmo have accepted?
 
Who would venture when they have declined? The general attitudes and customs of Ogbas themselves appear to be more Oru than Igmo, though the local tongue is now obviously more Igmo than Oru. Indeed the traditional customs are clearly derived from both sources. For example, the proud and graceful owu masquerade and asawa dances have their origin in Oru; whereas the troublesome, though, mysterious and powerful Okorosu, comes from igmo and speaks nkaba (a deeper word for Igmo) in a haughty, deathlike manner, through his nose, like the ghost that it is supposed to be!
 From their attitude and customs, Ogbas appear to believe that they occupy a central position in the world, between Oru and Igmo, from where they survey all the activities of mankind, and mock, praise, deride, appreciate or emulate them as the occasion demands. Some of the customs create the vague impression of people standing between the living and the dead, or between paradise and hell, or between the devil and the deep blue sea.
 
 
 
 
 http://ogbakingdom.com/ogba-view-of-cosmogony-2/

Without bias and visiting Omoku as a neutral observer, one will notice that it is obviously a mix of Igbo and Ijaw with Igbo being majority. I mean in culture, language and physical appearance. Some Edoid people that were probably of the Urhobo stock could have migrated their in a very negligible number. The history is however of Bini claims just like most Igbos around the Niger like my own Oguta, Ogbaru and Onitsha.

Majority of Ogba people today regard themselves as distinct but the in house talks refer to them as "Oru na Igbo" which is also what we use in Oguta. While we call people further North "Igbo".

In a nutshell, I don't think Igbos call these Ikwerre, Ogba etc Igbo for any gains but because of the contiguous nature and inability to differentiate the language and names. Ikwerres developed a different autography but Ogba didn't. For example "Nwali" is written as "Wali" in Ikwerre but remains Nwali in Ogba as found in Afikpo or elsewhere in Igbo hinterland.

afam4eva:
The same reason why anyone would consider Ogba to be Igbo is the same reason why anyone will equally consider Ngwa Igbo. What makes Ngwa Igbo and not Ogba. Pls be sincere in your reply.

Biafra is the answer you're looking for.

noiseless: STOP MAKING THIS ACESS TO SEA,AS IF THAT IS THE BIGINING AND END OF LIFE,LET THEM CARRY THEIR SEA BE ON THEIR OWN, WHAT GOES AROUND COMES AROUND. MANY NATIONS WITHOUT ACESS TO SEA ARE DOING GREAT HOW MUCH MORE GREAT IGBOLAND WITH RIVER NIGER WHICH HAS HER TWO FEETS STANDING IN THE OCEAN,SO WHAT ELSE DO WE WANT FROM THOSE WHO SOLD THEIR SOULS FOR PETTY FAVOURS FROM HAUSA/FULANI. OR DOES ONE REALLY THINK IN CASE OF SPLITING UP OF nigeria OUR NEW NEIGHBOURING COUNTRIES WOULDING LET US USE RVER NIGER TO THE FULLEST? SORRY DEAR, I'M NOT SHOUTING LOL!

It's obvious you didn't read my post well,try and re read it again. Ogba is a bushland,they have no acess to the sea,the people are generally lazy,apart from ogbuehi francis ellah,there is no distinguished ogba man of note. Tell me bro,of what use is such people to the great igbo nation?

But bro,seriously,that acess to the sea dey important o! But ogba and ekpeyeland are landlocked bushlands and cannot solve that problem for us, fa gbakaa door!

Ikwerre and those igbos in bonny holds the key,not some bushlands called ekpeyeland and ogbaland. Hope say u understand me now.

Bro, believe me i read your and understood your post, you are just making the Igbo denying group more important than they are, they are important because we know that are our brothers even though they accepted matterial things of this world to do so,and nomatter how hard they dislike it when we call them what they are,they will never do more than denying.Bro, what is the use of sea order than shiping and fishing? Well, where ever you are and whatever you do, just channel your effort and energy in us getting our Biafra/Igbo Republic,Botswana is the best country in africa yet she is landlocked how much more Igboland with river niger. With a government of our own we will make river niger to whatever capacity we need, and not the shallowy noisy the nigeria government is fooling around and calling it river port, thank God the river has it's feets standing in the ocean and no one will ever dare to stop us from making fullest use of it, and i'm sure our new neighbouring Niger delta/Ijaw Republic would love to have a better economic partnership with us, as they know we will make a very big fish importers from their new rich country while we supply with our Innoson Autos lol! And trade our crude oyel individually, what else does one want bro? Forget this talk of Igbo not having acess to sea, cos river niger didn't circle round and turn back to the north without reaching the sea.

pazienza:

It's obvious you didn't read my post well,try and re read it again. Ogba is a bushland,they have no acess to the sea,the people are generally lazy,apart from ogbuehi francis ellah,there is no distinguished ogba man of note. Tell me bro,of what use is such people to the great igbo nation?

But bro,seriously,that acess to the sea dey important o! But ogba and ekpeyeland are landlocked bushlands and cannot solve that problem for us, fa gbakaa door!

Ikwerre and those igbos in bonny holds the key,not some bushlands called ekpeyeland and ogbaland. Hope say u understand me now.

@Afam with your respond i take it that if an ogba man wins the presidency you will not consider it the turn of the igbos yet you still claim they are you kins and kith purposely for the abundance of oil and gas in their land i think.

let me try to clarify some thing even if the ogba man has its root in some igbo or bini kingdom. the true is they have now long being separated to still be called igbos or binis, because ibos claim to have a root in israel doesn't make them Jewish in this 21st century as they have long being separated from the Jew to now become an independent ethnic group of their own, so also are the ogbas who are now considered an independent ethnic group of their own irrespective of their root that is why i said in my previous quote that they are now neither binis or igbos but ogba men.
[b]
@ pazienza [/b]with the invention of the internet obtaining information is now even cheap yet you decide to still remain in ignorance, Sen. Francis Ellah is not the most distinguished ogba man. i will like you to research on Professor Claude Ake and so you know omoku is not a bushland. refer to early page of what brokoto said about it as being the second most developed and biggest town in Rivers state after port harcourt

I've been watching from afar for some time now and I think that I can conclude that the roots of this entire despute are the Biafran war and the resultant enmity/distrust that bred as a result of the political division of the Igbo.

Were the Ogba people in Imo state instead of Rivers, we wouldn't be discussing this right now. The Nigerian government's objective was to divide the Igbo peoples politically and deny them the right of ever having a united voice. As the era of Igbo marginalization (1970-present) wore on, certain groups (desperate to gain favor from the government and to avoid the marginalization plaguing the Igbo nation as a whole) re-wrote their histories and assumed new identities for themselves.

These groups include the Ogba and Ikwere.

Here's a video I found in the Ogba dialect.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wQYvIJuL-U&feature=youtube_gdata_player

osifred: @Afam with your respond i take it that if an ogba man wins the presidency you will not consider it the turn of the igbos yet you still claim they are you kins and kith purposely for the abundance of oil and gas in their land i think.

let me try to clarify some thing even if the ogba man has its root in some igbo or bini kingdom. the true is they have now long being separated to still be called igbos or binis, because ibos claim to have a root in israel doesn't make them Jewish in this 21st century as they have long being separated from the Jew to now become an independent ethnic group of their own, so also are the ogbas who are now considered an independent ethnic group of their own irrespective of their root that is why i said in my previous quote that they are now neither binis or igbos but ogba men.

Pls don't confuse issues here. The rotational presidency thingy is done on the basis os region and not ethnicity. If an Asaba man becomes the president of Nigeria, he would be considered an Igbo man but he will not be taking the spot of the south-east because Asaba is in the south-south. That's why Clark was fighting to make sure no Igbo south-southerner(Rivers and delta) takes the turn of the south-south. I hope you get my point.

Secondaly, ethnicity is not about where you have your roots. It's mainly about language and cultural similarities. Who told you all the Igbo sub-groups(Ngwa, Onitsha, Nkanu, Nsukka) all have their roots in the same place I noticed, you've been throwing the fact that your people migrated from benin. Now tell, if you find yourseld in the midst of bini speakers, can you understand and communicate with them in bini? Is it the same if you find yourself in the midst of Igbo speakers?

afam4eva:
Pls don't confuse issues here. The rotational presidency thingy is done on the basis os region and not ethnicity. If an Asaba man becomes the president of Nigeria, he would be considered an Igbo man but he will not be taking the spot of the south-east because Asaba is in the south-south. That's why Clark was fighting to make sure no Igbo south-southerner(Rivers and delta) takes the turn of the south-south. I hope you get my point.

Secondaly, ethnicity is not about where you have your roots. It's mainly about language and cultural similarities. Who told you all the Igbo sub-groups(Ngwa, Onitsha, Nkanu, Nsukka) all have their roots in the same place I noticed, you've been throwing the fact that your people migrated from benin. Now tell, if you find yourseld in the midst of bini speakers, can you understand and communicate with them in bini? Is it the same if you find yourself in the midst of Igbo speakers?

only to the igbos that ethnicity doesn't mean their root. To the yorubas and hausas(not every northener but hausa)their ethnicity is their root. The catalans,basques,aragonese,andalucians,castilanos,english,french etc their ethnicity is their root. But to some group of "igbos" who see themselves as solomon(very wise and educated)they view themselves as igbos but with igala,bini,cameroun,congo root. Where as there are no bini,igala,congo,cameroun people with igbo root. What a shame on us! People drive joy in writting rubbish! Igbo clan,north&south igbo,anambra&enugu igbo,bini and igala root my foot!

afam4eva:
Pls don't confuse issues here. The rotational presidency thingy is done on the basis os region and not ethnicity. If an Asaba man becomes the president of Nigeria, he would be considered an Igbo man but he will not be taking the spot of the south-east because Asaba is in the south-south. That's why Clark was fighting to make sure no Igbo south-southerner(Rivers and delta) takes the turn of the south-south. I hope you get my point.

Secondaly, ethnicity is not about where you have your roots. It's mainly about language and cultural similarities. Who told you all the Igbo sub-groups(Ngwa, Onitsha, Nkanu, Nsukka) all have their roots in the same place I noticed, you've been throwing the fact that your people migrated from benin. Now tell, if you find yourseld in the midst of bini speakers, can you understand and communicate with them in bini? Is it the same if you find yourself in the midst of Igbo speakers?

That's not necessarily true.

osifred: @Afam with your respond i take it that if an ogba man wins the presidency you will not consider it the turn of the igbos yet you still claim they are you kins and kith purposely for the abundance of oil and gas in their land i think.

let me try to clarify some thing even if the ogba man has its root in some igbo or bini kingdom. the true is they have now long being separated to still be called igbos or binis, because ibos claim to have a root in israel doesn't make them Jewish in this 21st century as they have long being separated from the Jew to now become an independent ethnic group of their own, so also are the ogbas who are now considered an independent ethnic group of their own irrespective of their root that is why i said in my previous quote that they are now neither binis or igbos but ogba men.

1st Bolded: It doesn't work that way, since, as Afam has already explained, presidency is rotational by geo-political zone and not by ethnicity.

2nd Bolded: This is actually a weak and false analogy. It's not really helping you buttress your point.

ChinenyeN:

That's not necessarily true.

It's not necessarily false either. Many ethnicities in Africa don't know their roots. We're just doing a guessing or possibility game. So, that counts for little. Ethnicities are determined by Language and cultural similarities and not necessarily roots.

afam4eva: It's not necessarily false either. Many ethnicities in Africa don't know their roots. We're just doing a guessing or possibility game. So, that counts for little. Ethnicities are determined by Language and cultural similarities and not necessarily roots.

So since you know that it's not necessarily true and not necessarily false, then you should also know to not make unequivocal statements like the one in bold. Honestly, considering the highly debatable nature of your premise, I would suggest a different approach/argument to buttress your point with, because the universality of your premise can be easily disproved, rendering your entire argument unsound.

ChinenyeN:
So since you know that it's not necessarily true and not necessarily false, then you should also know to not make unequivocal statements like the one in bold. Honestly, considering the highly debatable nature of your premise, I would suggest a different approach/argument to buttress your point with, because the universality of your premise can be easily disproved, rendering your entire argument unsound.

Let's stick with Nigeria because unlike other parts of the world where history is fully documented, over here it's sketchy and not completely factual.

Don't go into this argument with ChinenyeN else it will run into 20 pages in 2 days. We've argued this before and the thread is still available.

Hahaha, this is a complete Igbo language.

odumchi: Here's a video I found in the Ogba dialect.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wQYvIJuL-U&feature=youtube_gdata_player

afam4eva: Let's stick with Nigeria because unlike other parts of the world where history is fully documented, over here it's sketchy and not completely factual.

In that case, I'd recommend not over-broadening your argument (i.e. "Ethnicities are determined..."), because I think you were actually doing very well when you kept things constrained within the "Igbo context".

At the end of the day, even if someone speaks Igbo, bears Igbo name and shares exactly same culture with his next door Igbo neighbor,it is still left for him to decide his ethnic affiliations. Economic and political interests can sometimes affect ethnic affiliations. An example is the Efik-Ibibio-Annang case. While all the 3 groups adopted Efik as the dialect of study and communication they still refused to form a large conglomerate ethnic group even as they all speak mutually intelligible languages.

My issue with this Ogba and Ikwerre case lies in the disruption of history and denial of affiliation. Its no big deal to accept the truth and still maintain your ethnic independence. All the pre-1970 documents suggest Igbo affiliation.

Abagworo: At the end of the day, even if someone speaks Igbo, bears Igbo name and shares exactly same culture with his next door Igbo neighbor,it is still left for him to decide his ethnic affiliations. Economic and political interests can sometimes affect ethnic affiliations. An example is the Efik-Ibibio-Annang case. While all the 3 groups adopted Efik as the dialect of study and communication they still refused to form a large conglomerate ethnic group even as they all speak mutually intelligible languages.

My issue with this Ogba and Ikwerre case lies in the disruption of history and denial of affiliation. Its no big deal to accept the truth and still maintain your ethnic independence. All the pre-1970 documents suggest Igbo affiliation.

I have no problem with any group going solo but they should do that without trying to distort history so as to justify their detachment from the greater Igbo nation.

Even if they create an identity for themselves, the'll still be seen as Igbo by the entire world. It will be record breaking to tell someone that your name is "Chinedu Amaechi" but you're not Igbo.

afam4eva:
It will be record breaking to tell someone that your name is "Chinedu Amaechi" but you're not Igbo.

That's the time when (as our ancestors out it) nwanne agaghi ama ibe ya.

The kind of confusion that would erupt then would be disastrous.

[quote author=odumchi]I've been watching from afar for some time now and I think that I can conclude that the roots of this entire despute are the Biafran war and the resultant enmity/distrust that bred as a result of the political division of the Igbo.

Were the Ogba people in Imo state instead of Rivers, we wouldn't be discussing this right now. The Nigerian government's objective was to divide the Igbo peoples politically and deny them the right of ever having a united voice. As the era of Igbo marginalization (1970-present) wore on, certain groups (desperate to gain favor from the government and to avoid the marginalization plaguing the Igbo nation as a whole) re-wrote their histories and assumed new identities for themselves.

These groups include the Ogba and Ikwere.

osifred: @Afam with your respond i take it that if an ogba man wins the presidency you will not consider it the turn of the igbos yet you still claim they are you kins and kith purposely for the abundance of oil and gas in their land i think.

let me try to clarify some thing even if the ogba man has its root in some igbo or bini kingdom. the true is they have now long being separated to still be called igbos or binis, because ibos claim to have a root in israel doesn't make them Jewish in this 21st century as they have long being separated from the Jew to now become an independent ethnic group of their own, so also are the ogbas who are now considered an independent ethnic group of their own irrespective of their root that is why i said in my previous quote that they are now neither binis or igbos but ogba men.
[b]
@ pazienza [/b]with the invention of the internet obtaining information is now even cheap yet you decide to still remain in ignorance, Sen. Francis Ellah is not the most distinguished ogba man. i will like you to research on Professor Claude Ake and so you know omoku is not a bushland. refer to early page of what brokoto said about it as being the second most developed and biggest town in Rivers state after port harcourt

why would you waste your precious time trying to educate these ignorant igbos...pazienza is only demonstrating his lack of knowledge in history and geography yet i find it appalling the manner which they carry themselves,bragging abt a great igbo nation when 85% of negative name calling of nigerians in foreign countries are crimes being committed by this great and wonderful people...great and wonderful indeed mtcheew.