Ihedinobi:

I see them. Just don't see them conflicting with what I said. Am I missing something?

seriallink:

That was what I asked Sister Plap & she gave me a satisfying answer! Is spiritual ISRAEL = CHURCH? Or Is it referring only to the decendants of Jacob?

obadiah777: what you are missing is this >>> the woman is not the church and the man-child is not the overcomers <<<<your own vain opinions

obadiah777: the israel in that chapter is time specific. it is refering to the period of the abomination of desolation around 70 AD. at that point in time the only israelites were the lineage israel so it is refering ONLY to the descendants of Jacob.

however when you get to REV chapter 14 onwards, then the gentiles who made it will be added to the house of israel and they will be the HOUSE OF ISRAEL. the gentiles get harvested and added to the fold in chpt 14. later fruits.

Ihedinobi:

Ah, I see what I'm missing now! I'm missing how those passages said, "the woman is not the church and the man-child is not the overcomers". Wanna explain?

plappville:

Romans 11:17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree,

obadiah777: BRAH I JUST GAVE YOU PRECEPTS TELLING YOU THAT THE WOMAN IS ISRAEL AND THE MAN-CHILD IS CHRIST. WHERE DO YOU COME UP WITH THIS OVERCOMERS AND CHURCH STUFF ? THIS IS HERESY

Ihedinobi:

Ah, but you see, I don't see that contradicting what I said at all, do you?

obadiah777: hmm lets see you said the woman is the church. ok i guess i see where you are coming from. israel is the church. ok lets see the next one. the man-child is christ. it may work for the woman being the church but i dont see how you want to equate christ with the overcomers. i give you one out of two

Ihedinobi:

Yesoooooo! The Church is the New Israel, the Israel of God of which the old Israel was only a type.

And what is a Christian, brah?

obadiah777: i give you that. you are right. the church is the new israel. however the israel in chapter 12 is the old israel gotcha. what is a christian ? i dont know. someone who follows christ i guess

new israel starts from when the gentiles are harvested in chapter 14 revelation

obadiah777: but you are right. the church is israel. like israel is called the temple in chapter Rev 11 vs 1

obadiah777: BRAH I JUST GAVE YOU PRECEPTS TELLING YOU THAT THE WOMAN IS ISRAEL AND THE MAN-CHILD IS CHRIST.
WHERE DO YOU COME UP WITH THIS OVERCOMERS AND CHURCH STUFF ? THIS IS HERESY

plappville:

The reason why i do not fancy the Church to be the woman is because, Christ gave birth to the Church, and the vision says the woman gave birth to a male child.
I cannot see how the church can bring forth the male child.But if the woman is Mary or Isreal, this can match because they are the only two that can birth Christ. And if the Woman is the Church then the male child could be the overcomers. However, scripture gave us picture the conflict of the ages, between the descendents of Eve and Satan. We picture that John recorded the conclusion of events, which began in the Garden of Eden.

Since Satan has been confined to earth, and becaus he knows his time is very short(3 ½ years), all he does is confronts Israel in a last ditch effort to stop his confinement.
He assumes control the Antichris’s kingdom at the mid-point of the Tribulatio.
When He (Satan)was expelled frm heaven, he incarnates the Antichrist who seemed to ve à final wound (Revelation 13:3).
The resurected Antichrist enters the rebuilt temple in Jerusalem and déclares himslf God démanding Israel and the entire world to worshi him(2 Thes. 2:4).

Israel refuses to worship the Antichrist, who is now Satan incarnate. The Antichris is infuriated, against
Israel and believers since he knows his tim is short and he must act quickly.
Satan indwelling the Antichrist pursue Israel and attempts to exterminate the it, hopin to prevent the return
of Christ, who ve promised to return when Israel acknowledged Him as their Messiah (Matthew 23:39).

At this point God intervenes on Israel’s behalf, Jesus have warned Israel about this coming day of trial long ago.
Jesus refering to the book of Daniel warned Israel, when they saw the abomination of
desolation spoken of by Daniel to fléé to the mountains (Matthew 24;15-21).

God literally opens the Mount of Olives, creating a valley, and providing a path of escape, for a remnant seed of Israel.
There in the wilderness of Judah east of Jeruselem, God will supernaturally preserve and feed a select group
of survivors for 1260-days or three and half years. Surviving Israel will come to terms with their
Messiah and finally understand, Jesus Christ is their only way to salvation.

She was given "Two wings" to fly, Israel was faced with a similar execution, in Egypt Then God intervened
wit Moses, and Israel was led out of Egypt with God’s protection.
This time Israel will again be supernaturally protected against Satan’s plan for their destruction.

Exodus 19:4-6 4 'You have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how I bore you on eagles' wings and brought you to Myself. 5 'Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, then you shall be a special treasure to Me above all people; for all the earth is Mine.
6 'And you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.' These are the words which you shall speak to the children of Israel."

plappville: Zechariah 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

This prophecy will be fulfilled when Israel emerges from their supernatural protection to behold Jesus the rejected Messiah.

obadiah777: romans 8 vs 9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. pretty much self explanatory. means you are guided by your spirit. the holy spirit in you which is the spirit of Christ and God.

obadiah777: WHAT IHEDINOBI IS DOING HERE IS THAT HE IS TAKING ADVANTAGE OF A LOOPHOLE. WHILE HIS ANSWER IS WRONG, TECHNICALLY HE IS CORRECT. OF COURSE SAYING THE CHURCH GAVE BIRTH TO CHRIST IS LIKE PUTTING THE CART BEFORE THE HORSE WHICH MAKES ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE. HOWEVER THE LOOPHOLE IS THAT THE WOMAN IS ISRAEL AND ISRAEL WAS THE CHURCH AND WILL BE THE CHURCH WHEN THE KINGDOM IS ESTABLISHED. SO BASED ON THAT TECHNICALITY, WE CAN LET HIM SLIDE IN CALLING THE WOMAN THE CHURCH. HOWEVER THE ONE ABOUT THE THE MAN-CHILD BEING THE OVERCOMERS IS JUST WRONG.

NICE LECTURE ABOUT SATAN AND HIS KINGDOM WHICH WAS CONFINED IN THE BOTTOMLESS PIT FOR A TIME ( HENCE THE WOUND ) AND THEN RE-EMERGES ( healed wound ) AND GOES INTO PERDITION.

Ihedinobi:

Does it really? Looks more like it says that only those who have the Spirit of Christ belong to Him and that such belong only to the Realm of the Spirit.

The first part, that is, the part about those who belong to Christ, is the sweet spot. It's the definition of the Christian. The Christian is that human being who has Jesus Christ's Spirit. This actually means that the Christian is identical with Christ and what is true of Christ is true of the Christian.

Therefore, if you like, you can call the man-child Christ and I can call him, "the company of firstfruits or overcomers" and we'd both be right. But you can never rightly say that the man-child is Jesus Christ in His distinct Person. Because obviously He wasn't caught up to His Father's Throne at birth, nor can Mary be described in the manner that woman was as ethnic Israel can also not be.



Lolololol....... Splendid!!!!

Where exactly is this loophole? In the Bible? Or in your personal theology?

And who has the authority to declare me wrong? Can the person also declare how I am so? Because the Judge must also be the Wise and the Knowing.

By the way, you should probably look at my last post. I edited it.

obadiah777: AHHH I SEE YOU ARE TRYING TO GET OFF ON A TECHNICALITY AGAIN LOL. TALKING ABOUT THOSE WITH THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST ARE THE OVERCOMERS. WELL BUDDY IN THIS CASE IT IS SPECIFIC TO ONE PERSON HOWEVER GREAT TRY AT TRICKERY

Ihedinobi:

Lol @technicality. Think you're in a law court?

Sure it's one person. Is the woman in that passage not one person as well?

obadiah777: ONLY THE 144,000 OUT OF THE TRIBE OF ISRAEL HAVE SUPERNATURAL PROTECTION. THE REST ARE GETTING JACKED UP DAILY BY ALL KINDS OF TRIBULATION AND AFFLICTION AS WE SPEAK

obadiah777: THE WOMAN IS A COMPOUND NAME THAT ENCOMPASSES A TRIBE OF PEOPLE. ITS A GENERAL TERM USED FOR A GROUP. HOWEVER THE MAN-CHILD IS JUST ONE SPECIFIC SINGLE PERSON. NICE TRY THOUGH

obadiah777: THE WOMAN IS A COMPOUND NAME THAT ENCOMPASSES A TRIBE OF PEOPLE. ITS A GENERAL TERM USED FOR A GROUP. HOWEVER THE MAN-CHILD IS JUST ONE SPECIFIC SINGLE PERSON. NICE TRY THOUGH

obadiah777: you are coming out of your own vain opinion now. precept must always be upon precept. this is the precept to the sun moon and 12 stars GENESIS 37 VS 9 Then he had another dream, and he told it to his brothers. "Listen," he said, "I had another dream, and this time the sun and moon and eleven stars were bowing down to me. And he told it to his father, and to his brethren: and his father rebuked him, and said unto him, What is this dream that thou hast dreamed? Shall I and thy mother and thy brethren indeed come to bow down ourselves to thee to the earth? BIBLICAL STORIES ARE OFTEN SYMBOLIC AND ALLEGORICAL IN NATURE SO THAT THE SUN ALSO MEANS WISDOM, THE MOON MEANS UNDERSTANDING AND THE 12 STARS ARE THE HOST OF HEAVEN. THE POINT HERE IS THAT, BY PRECEPT UPON PRECEPT, THE WOMAN IS ISRAEL

i.chuka:


Dude,Joseph said he saw Eleven(11)stars not Twelve(12) or are you trying to add to the word of God.

Ihedinobi:

Ah, this sounds interesting. How do you decide that the man-child is a single person, but the woman a group? What dictionary are you using?

obadiah777: case closed. hear or forbear

obadiah777: joseph was the 12th star

Ihedinobi:

Yeah, I agree!!!

i.chuka:

Ehh! Then his sons are are star number thirteen abi?since they are also Jacobs sons.