davidylan:

this is deliberate dishonesty. Obviously they are praying, one just happens to be holding a bible. By that token would you claim they are also worshiping ties and wristwatches?

That is the foolishness of italo u have to deal with,................he's trying his best to equate is idolatrous acts to one holding the d scriptures...............what utter dis-ingenuity.........

Ubenedictus: hehehe, u accuse me of not "obeying" God's word now e dey pinch u 4 body. Jacobs bones were moved around.

Please show me from d scriptures about jacobs bones and let's see if it matches with this pagan rite of preserving parts of human bodies for veneration.........

You might do well to answer these qÙestions as u open d scriptures...

1..What reasons were jacobs bones moved around??
2..For how long??

@UBE....where did the bones of either jacob or joseph(guess u meant joseph) end up??.....mummified and kept in a glass for veneration or in the grave??.............

Today na me and you.........

davidylan:

this is deliberate dishonesty. Obviously they are praying, one just happens to be holding a bible. By that token would you claim they are also worshiping ties and wristwatches?

I thought your definition of WORSHIP is "kneeling and praying before something."

Abi that definition only applies to Catholics?

You are the one being dishonest and biased. If Catholics do it, you call it idol worship, when you di it, you try to justify it.

I used to have far more respect for you and Enigma...but unfortunately...

@ Davidylan,

italo:

Here comes the 'doctrinal dance' that protestants always use to blur the discussion when their arguments are being torn apart... Jumping from one issue to another.

Your first question on this thread was "what is the spiritual significance of a moldy heart" or something like that.

And I asked the same about Elijah's bones (implying that they both have similar spiritual significance)

Then you said:



Implying that you believed a dead man's bones (or flesh) could communicate God's grace and Spirit but there is no longer use for it ("physical acts of divine power" in the new testament.

Paul used "physical acts of divine power" (aprons and handerchiefs) to heal people. Did this happen in the OT or NT?

Even Jesus used "physical acts of divine power" to heal the man born blind.
John 9:6 "After saying this, he spit on the ground, made some mud with the saliva, and put it on the man’s eyes. 7 “Go,” he told him, “wash in the Pool of Siloam” (this word means “Sent”). So the man went and washed, and came home seeing."

Why did he have to use his SALIVA, MUD and the POOL of SILOAM when he could have just willed it and the man would see?

And did this happen in the OT or in the NT?

Stop trying hard to confuse the issue. Let us get this point clear before we move to the issue of "veneration"?

Were "physical acts of divine power" only to be used in the Old Testament and prohibited in the New testament?

YES or NO?

Are these questions impossible to manouvre and twist around? You can just swallow your pride and answer truthfully, even though it will dismantle your erroneous theology.

The truth will set you free.

Like i said, it is a pity that i'm discussing with a grown man who has refused to use his reasoning faculty

ijawkid:
And is worship = posture - beads??...........

none of those things you name imply worship.

What do u use your dead beads for??.....to tie around your necks like lil wayne for entertainment......

You are d grown azz man that is running away from the truth..........

How can one bow before graven images,using beads and also reciting mantras to the beads and also to the carved image and then deny it isn't worship.....teLl that folk tale to your dead graven rosaries and mary statue.......

this is a strawman! Where did a catholic tell you he did the bolded?

ijawkid: @UBE....where did the bones of either jacob or joseph(guess u meant joseph) end up??.....mummified and kept in a glass for veneration or in the grave??.............

Today na me and you.........

you are really a waste of time. When it comes to catholicism you just can't reason properly.
Sorry.

Ubenedictus: you are really a waste of time. When it comes to catholicism you just can't reason properly.
Sorry.

Cant you see how hesitant the one who reasons properly (davidylan) is, in answering my question? He has a reputation to protect and he knows he would have to be fraudulent to defend his position. So he stays away.

But the one who doesnt think has no reputation and integrity to protect so he can say anything no matter how stupid or false it is. Afterall, he doesnt think anyway...

Ubenedictus: you are really a waste of time. When it comes to catholicism you just can't reason properly.
Sorry.

Oboy u are been disingenous...
answer the damn questions and face front.....did the isrealites transfer d bones of patriarchs from generation after generation let alone venerate them....you are a greater waste of time and space...

Ubenedictus: Like i said, it is a pity that i'm discussing with a grown man who has refused to use his reasoning faculty none of those things you name imply worship.

Keep fooling yourself with semantics.....
The more you keep running away from the fact that you are guys are ardent idolaters the more you are guilty of idolatry...

Ubenedictus:
this is a strawman! Where did a catholic tell you he did the bolded?

Don't you bow down to that graven image called mary and pray repetitive prayers with the beads??......

Is that not exactly what the buddhists and muslims do that you guys are doing claiming to be followers of Christ??...........

ijawkid:
Keep fooling yourself with semantics.....
The more you keep running away from the fact that you are guys are ardent idolaters the more you are guilty of idolatry...



Don't you bow down to that graven image called mary and pray repetitive prayers with the beads??......

Is that not exactly what the buddhists and muslims do that you guys are doing claiming to be followers of Christ??...........

because they refused to retain God in their knowledge, he gave them to 'a reprobate mind'. these guys are diehard idolaters o pls leave them alone and pray for them.

ijawkid:

Oboy u are been disingenous...
answer the damn questions and face front.....did the isrealites transfer d bones of patriarchs from generation after generation let alone venerate them....you are a greater waste of time and space...

a question was asked, where in d bible was someone's remains moved around, i responded by talking about jacobs remains. I aswered d question. The above is ur business.

ijawkid:
Keep fooling yourself with semantics.....
The more you keep running away from the fact that you are guys are ardent idolaters the more you are guilty of idolatry...

u just dey exibit weytin i talk b4, sumtin dey scratch ya body.

Don't you bow down to that graven image called mary and pray repetitive prayers with the beads??......

Is that not exactly what the buddhists and muslims do that you guys are doing claiming to be followers of Christ??...........

you said catholics "recite mantras to bead and image" where did u see a catholic praying to a bead?
Sumtin dey scratch ya body.

Ubenedictus: a question was asked, where in d bible was someone's remains moved around, i responded by talking about jacobs remains. I aswered d question. The above is ur business.

nobody worshiped Jacob's or Elisha's bones, and ye shall know the TRUTH and the truth shall make you free. Its a choice.

christemmbassey: nobody worshiped Jacob's or Elisha's bones, and ye shall know the TRUTH and the truth shall make you free. Its a choice.

They are just looking for things that never exited to support idol worship.

Boomark:

They are just looking for things that never exited to support idol worship.

as far as i am concerned, they can worship anything, afterall' catholic faith is dif from christian faith.

Ubenedictus: u just dey exibit weytin i talk b4, sumtin dey scratch ya body.

you said catholics "recite mantras to bead and image" where did u see a catholic praying to a bead?
Sumtin dey scratch ya body.

Abeg when ona dey use the rosary,they count the beads or what ever ona no dey repeat words of devotion or prayers??.....""When you guys repeat the hail mary mother of God please pray for us"" prayer don't you do that with the beads around your hands??.......

Why are you speaking like we are blind people ??....

Abeg see the definition of mantra:::

man·tra
[muhn-]

-n.
1. a word or formula, as from the Veda, chanted or sung as an incantation or prayer.


The buddhist use beads and just as they use it so does the catholics use the rosary(bead).........

Ubenedictus: a question was asked, where in d bible was someone's remains moved around, i responded by talking about jacobs remains. I aswered d question. The above is ur business.

E be like na you think out the question then answer am.....the OP's thread is about you guys venerating a piece of dead meat.....then you guys came along talking about josephs bones........is the OP about the transfer of dead body parts of faithfuls or the worshipping of it??.......

That is why I asked you for how long were the bones of joseph transported and if any sane isrealite did obeiscance to the bones??,,,

Answer the questions and let me see how you can defend this abonimable act of ""piece of dead meat"" veneration.....

ijawkid:

Abeg when ona dey use the rosary,they count the beads or what ever ona no dey repeat words of devotion or prayers??.....""When you guys repeat the hail mary mother of God please pray for us"" prayer don't you do that with the beads around your hands??.......

Why are you speaking like we are blind people ??....

Abeg see the definition of mantra:::

man·tra
[muhn-]

-n.
1. a word or formula, as from the Veda, chanted or sung as an incantation or prayer.


The buddhist use beads and just as they use it so does the catholics use the rosary(bead).........

u still de waste ya time with these idolaters? Pls if u must talk to them , preach the gospel to them maybe God will give them a repental heart to the knowledge of truth.

Ijaw**d, Boom**k, Christemmb****y.

*SUSPECTED LUNATICS DETECTED AND IGNORED*

italo: Ijaw**d, Boom**k, Christemmb****y.

*SUSPECTED LUNATICS DETECTED AND IGNORED*

.......

ijawkid:

Abeg when ona dey use the rosary,they count the beads or what ever ona no dey repeat words of devotion or prayers??.....""When you guys repeat the hail mary mother of God please pray for us"" prayer don't you do that with the beads around your hands??.......

Why are you speaking like we are blind people ??....

Abeg see the definition of mantra:::

man·tra
[muhn-]

-n.
1. a word or formula, as from the Veda, chanted or sung as an incantation or prayer.


The buddhist use beads and just as they use it so does the catholics use the rosary(bead).........

and does dat say beads are restricted to d buddist alone?

italo: Ijaw**d, Boom**k, Christemmb****y.

*SUSPECTED LUNATICS DETECTED AND IGNORED*

a wise choice i must say.

Ubenedictus: and does dat say beads are restricted to d buddist alone?

Have u asked Jesus this question??.............try asking him.............smh!!!!!!..........

ijawkid:

Have u asked Jesus this question??.............try asking him.............smh!!!!!!..........

in essence u can't answer me becos ur answer will show ur fallacy.

This is unbiblical, the Bible only should be sufficient to salvation. The Catholic church teaches it is not.
Their doctrines are outside the scriture. The last time, I saw in the Adults Catechism on page 52 it reads:,

"Can you learn to save your soul just by reading the Bible? No, because certain things in the Bible can be misunderstood, and because the Bible does not have everything God taught."

Of course, the bible did not teach us to bow before a piece of dead meat. Its a pity how some fellows can be completely blind.

Ubenedictus: in essence u can't answer me becos ur answer will show ur fallacy.

What fallacy??.......you are the one to show us how and when you a true servant of God started using beads in worship.........

Abi you never hear say make we no follow after the ways of pagans??....

Please how would you differentiate yourself from a pagan??.........eh mr UBE the bead user......

ijawkid:

What fallacy??.......you are the one to show us how and when you a true servant of God started using beads in worship.........

Abi you never hear say make we no follow after the ways of pagans??....

Please how would you differentiate yourself from a pagan??.........eh mr UBE the bead user......

Let me quote it for them to see.

Deuteronomy 12:30-31
King James Version (KJV)

30 Take heed to thyself that thou
be not snared by following them,
after that they be destroyed from
before thee; and that thou enquire
not after their gods, saying, How
did these nations serve their gods?
even so will I do likewise.
31 Thou shalt not do so unto the
LORD thy God: for every
abomination to the LORD, which he
hateth, have they done unto their
gods; for even their sons and their
daughters they have burnt in the
fire to their gods.

italo: Ijaw**d, Boom**k, Christemmb****y.

*SUSPECTED LUNATICS DETECTED AND IGNORED*

it*lo

*HUMAN MEAT WORSHIPER, DETECTED AND EXPORTED TO INDIA*

Boomark:

it*lo

*HUMAN MEAT WORSHIPER DETECTED AND EXPORTED TO INDIA*

Our brother Italo is a wonderful guy. With time God will remove the veil , I was also in that same state for many many years.

Ubenedictus: a wise choice i must say.

ubene***tus

*thinking of exporting this one too....*

frosbel:




Our brother Italo is a wonderful guy. With time God will remove the veil , I was also in that same state for many many years.

I know you would even chop my ear off or cut out my heart for daring your Mary statue then.

I pray that God will help them speedily.