christemmbassey: because of what happened on satday, which completly unsetles me, i will just sumarise as follows. 1. Christ advent was to fulfilll God's promise to redeem man in Gen 3:15.

True

christemmbassey:
2. God promised to make Abraham father of many nations was fulfiled in the nations of Isreal and did not include christianity,

False.
Galatians 3:29
And now that you belong to Christ, you are the true children of Abraham. You are his heirs, and God’s promise to Abraham belongs to you.

christemmbassey:
however Christ had to be born from then nation of Isreal for obvious reasons.(GEN 12:3) 3. Abraham is called the father of faith, because he was the 1st person to display God kind-of faith. Coming from an idol worshiping background, he just head a voice and he obeyed in faith(Gen 12). 4. When God said, "....and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed"Gen12:3,Gal:3:8 WHAT WAS THIS BLESSING?, did this statement meant that Abraham is going to be made the father of ALL families of the eath? No.

Yes, father through faith and not biologically or of the letter.

Galatians 3:7-8
Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham. 8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.”

christemmbassey:
5. Now what is the connection between the christian and Abraham? The anser is very simple-FAITH. Abraham believed God and it was imputed unto him for righteousness Jm2:23,Gal3:6 with the same faith the christian believes in his heart that God raised Christ from the dead. "with the heart man believeth unto righteousness...." Rm10:9-10, thats the only thing that conects us with Abraham.-faith, Gal3:9 says "SO THEN THEY WHICH BE OF FAITH ARE BKLESSED WITH THE FAITHFUL ABRAHAM. You see, its because we accept Christ by faith(seed) of Abraham but he is not our projenitor, we were not born of Abraham. 6. Now, who is a christian?, simple, 'a christian is someone who is BORN-AGAIN, 1Peter1:23 says, "being born again, not of coruptible seed, but of incoruptible, BY THE WORD OF GOD, which liveth and abided forever", (kjv) Abraham died, now i will ask, when Christ said, " i am the way the truth and the life, no man cometh unto the FATHER, but by me" jn14:6(kjv) was it Abraham he was refering to? 7. Abraham is the FATHER of the Jews and NOT of the christians. Matt3:9,Luke13:16, 16:22-30, 19:9, jn 8:37-39 acts 3:25, acts 7:2, acts 13:26. Continues in a moment....

Christians are born-again through the seed of Abraham, Jesus Christ, or did Christ physically give birth to you even though you are born again? Why did Jesus give the story of Lazarus and say he was in the bosom of Abraham?
Brother, try and understand the essence of faith better.

christemmbassey: Pls this post is not to rob anyone of their Abrahamic paternity neither is it an attempt to force anyone to accept anything,

Your post cannot rob anyone of that paternity in the first place neither can you force anyone to accept anything especially outside the word of God. That is why we have the bible, thank God, else some of you would have claimed exclusiveness of knowing God and what He meant.

christemmbassey:
the jast i checked, this is a forum where we all come to share with love as ppl who have recieved liked precious faith, nobody is here to force anybody but to share and i think if you feel strongly against any point the best is to mashall out urs with scriptures and questions, i dont supports this proclivity of throwing away the baby with the bath water.

Indeed, by telling people to stop singing 'Abraham's blessings are mine' even with the limited understanding you have shown so far?
Since you decide not to sing the song, let those who understand do. Unfortunately you have just thrown the baby out with the bath water and now expect others to do likewise.

christemmbassey:
I never said anything about spiritual father(for what so ever that is) or father of faith, i saith, "christians, Abraham is not your FATHER".

Romans 4:11-12
11 Circumcision was a sign that Abraham already had faith and that God had already accepted him and declared him to be righteous—even before he was circumcised. 12 So Abraham is the spiritual father of those who have faith but have not been circumcised. They are counted as righteous because of their faith.
And Abraham is also the spiritual father of those who have been circumcised, but only if they have the same kind of faith Abraham had before he was circumcised.

christemmbassey:
Christianity did not come as a fulfilment of God's promise to Abraham,

Actually it did:

Galatians 3:15-18
God gave the promises to Abraham and his child.[t] And notice that the Scripture doesn’t say “to his children,[t]” as if it meant many descendants. Rather, it says “to his child”—and that, of course, means Christ. 17 This is what I am trying to say: The agreement God made with Abraham could not be canceled 430 years later when God gave the law to Moses. God would be breaking his promise.

18 For if the inheritance could be received by keeping the law, then it would not be the result of accepting God’s promise. But God graciously gave it to Abraham as a promise.

christemmbassey: but it cam as Gods plan for the restoration of man into his rightful position as the son of the living God, just like the pre-fall Adam who did not need to give God anything to enjoy God's blessings and rule as God intended.

Actually Adam enjoyed it as long as He obeyed God which as soon as he did not, he fell. Abraham obeyed God in everything even when it was tough and despite delays and he was known as a friend of God, he had a great relationship with God and that is the type of relationship believing in Christ brings.

I will advise you do better study before you post these kind of topics again.

^ I will NOT do much work here since you, Alwaystrue have put everything in proper perspective. The OP does not in any way claim that Abraham IS NOT THE FATHER OF FAITH OR THEM THAT ARE OF FAITH. It is people who will not take time to understand him or rather let him land. I knew he was talking about Abraham, NOT BEING A FATHER OF CHRISTIAN as according to the flesh.

He definitely knows and understands that Abraham is a 'spiritual' father for us who are of faith in Christ. The seed promised was Christ and that is how the whole nations shall be or are blessed IN ABRAHAM, by being in Christ because in THY SEED (singular) shall all the families of the earth be blessed.

Like I said, Abraham is a two-fold meaning man - father or patriarch of the Jewish nation and spiritual (faith) father of all those in Christ.....by faith that it might be by Grace are you saved. In the fulfilled promised, that is in Christ, we are more blessed than Abraham. Hence, I strong those who sing Abraham's blessings are mine do err.

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us, Ephesians 3:20

Christians are in-dwelled by the Spirit of God....power that works IN us. Abraham wasn't indwelled. It is this 'faith' that we are of and that Abraham had in the promised seed and God's covenant that connects us, not the law. That's why you would see, most things that Apostle Paul did was to tear down the law of Moses BUT said, the promise\covenant which was BEFORE the law cannot be abolished.

to be continue

15Brothers and sisters, let me take an example from everyday life. Just as no one can set aside or add to a human covenant that has been duly established, so it is in this case. 16The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. Scripture does not say “and to seeds,” meaning many people, but “and to your seed,”i meaning one person, who is Christ. 17What I mean is this: The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise. 18For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on the promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise.

19Why, then, was the law given at all? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was given through angels and entrusted to a mediator. 20A mediator, however, implies more than one party; but God is one. 21Is the law, therefore, opposed to the promises of God? Absolutely not! For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come by the law. 22But Scripture has locked up everything under the control of sin, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe. << Galatians 3 >> New International Version

That promise God made to establish a covenant between Abraham and Him is Christ, verse 16. Our faith in the fulfilled Christ connects us 'spiritually' speaking like the faith of Abraham to God. Abraham becoming 'spiritual' father of all those who are of faith by the same faith in the promised seed even those it was typified in Isaac. Therefore, he became a our father (spiritual) as of our faith in Christ, setting an example of faith for us all.

Now, that faith-covenant had being fulfilled in Christ. Scriptures calls Christ the AUTHOR AND FINISHER of OUR FAITH. In the finished work of Christ, not Abraham's, we seal our redemption by faith in Christ through Grace. Abraham being a foreshadow or an example of faith doesn't called Christians to idolize him but by following his example of faith. The promise is fulfilled in Christ already, our complete faith is to be on the person of Christ NOW and till he returns again.

Thank y'all.

Goshen360: ^ I will NOT do much work here since you, Alwaystrue have put everything in proper perspective. The OP does not in any way claim that Abraham IS NOT THE FATHER OF FAITH OR THEM THAT ARE OF FAITH. It is people who will not take time to understand him or rather let him land. I knew he was talking about Abraham, NOT BEING A FATHER OF CHRISTIAN as according to the flesh.

He definitely knows and understands that Abraham is a 'spiritual' father for us who are of faith in Christ. The seed promised was Christ and that is how the whole nations shall be or are blessed IN ABRAHAM, by being in Christ because in THY SEED (singular) shall all the families of the earth be blessed.

Like I said, Abraham is a two-fold meaning man - father or patriarch of the Jewish nation and spiritual (faith) father of all those in Christ.....by faith that it might be by Grace are you saved. In the fulfilled promised, that is in Christ, we are more blessed than Abraham. Hence, I strong those who sing Abraham's blessings are mine do err.

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us, Ephesians 3:20

Christians are in-dwelled by the Spirit of God....power that works IN us. Abraham wasn't indwelled. It is this 'faith' that we are of and that Abraham had in the promised seed and God's covenant that connects us, not the law. That's why you would see, most things that Apostle Paul did was to tear down the law of Moses BUT said, the promise\covenant which was BEFORE the law cannot be abolished.

to be continue

I am actually surprised you accept what I said as well as that of the OP.
No one said Abraham was our biological father. Neither is God or Jesus our father according to the flesh either.

And no, the OP does not undertand that Abraham is our spiritual father, he said so himself.
I will advise you allow him to explain as you are saying contrary to what he has said so far.

Because we are blessed exceedingly abundantly is through Christ and Abraham. What greater blessing than to be a friend of God who speaks to God one on one? Abraham was so blessed in goods, fellowship with God and children of all nations. Those singing the song don't err, you are the ones claiming higher knowledge of the word of God. Despite the fact that it is quoted that we enjoy the blessings of Abraham because of our faith.

No one is idolising Abraham, that is a new one. May be that was your belief, but as plainly written in scripture, we are blessed through Abraham and his seed Jesus Christ.
All the rest are semantics.

Paul was against the letter of the law and not the spirit, intent and righteousness of that Law. I hope to engage with Image123 on this when he is chanced later on.

^ Okay. Lemme allow the OP to explain himself then BUT I don't read him saying Abraham is NOT our father in faith, he said our FATHER.....plainly, he doesn't say he is NOT our father in faith means he is not our father according to the flesh.

Being blessed THROUGH Abraham IN Christ is NOT same as being blessed IN Abraham himself. It was the 'seed', Christ that came THROUGH Abraham that we're blessed IN.

On the issue of my claiming higher knowledge, that's not an issue here. If I say anything not grounded in sound doctrine, people should challenge me and let's reason the scriptures together. I do not lay claim to omni-science as I'm not. I have said that too many times here on this forum - follow my teachings as I present Christ. If not, let every believer answer for themselves by studying\searching out the truth for themselves.

Lastly, don't get too tied up in KJV if you do. I see from your past posts that you get deeper meaning also from other & many available translations. If you're talking about 'letter of the law', it is simply the law itself. The letter being referred to is the law itself that killeth - look up that verse in many other translations, you'll understand what I'm saying. There's absolutely nothing called the 'spirit' of the law. I can easily grasp what you meant by the 'spirit' behind the law or the intent of the law and that too, we are told the intent(ions) for which the law (of Moses) was given. The law will clearly state exactly what it meant.

Goshen360: ^ I will NOT do much work here since you, Alwaystrue have put everything in proper perspective. The OP does not in any way claim that Abraham IS NOT THE FATHER OF FAITH OR THEM THAT ARE OF FAITH. It is people who will not take time to understand him or rather let him land. I knew he was talking about Abraham, NOT BEING A FATHER OF CHRISTIAN as according to the flesh.

OH NO! Goshen360 STOP! christembassy truly derailed, why are you trying to patch him up? This was why i was suprised at the manner Frosbel rushed to support him without going thoroughly through his post( At least going by the way he researches and analyzes the scripture). You people seem to be running a gang of teachers who supports each other irrespective of whatever wrong the person has posted and it will not help in this forum. Whatever any anti tithe teacher posts here, all of you in the gang supports blindly even when he is wrong. Next you begin to patch him up. My own is, when you say the truth i endorse and when you lie the next minute i raise my objections. Dont even defend christembassy. He is wrong and thank God "Alwaystrue" did a good job there to correct his errors. I just pity weak minded christians who will swallow every trash here.

Alwaystrue:

I am actually surprised you accept what I said as well as that of the OP.
No one said Abraham was our biological father. Neither is God or Jesus our father according to the flesh either.

And no, the OP does not undertand that Abraham is our spiritual father, he said so himself.
I will advise you allow him to explain as you are saying contrary to what he has said so far.

Because we are blessed exceedingly abundantly is through Christ and Abraham. What greater blessing than to be a friend of God who speaks to God one on one? Abraham was so blessed in goods, fellowship with God and children of all nations. Those singing the song don't err, you are the ones claiming higher knowledge of the word of God. Despite the fact that it is quoted that we enjoy the blessings of Abraham because of our faith.

No one is idolising Abraham, that is a new one. May be that was your belief, but as plainly written in scripture, we are blessed through Abraham and his seed Jesus Christ.
All the rest are semantics.

Paul was against the letter of the law and not the spirit, intent and righteousness of that Law. I hope to engage with Image123 on this when he is chanced later on.

And thats quite dangerous for a forum where people are discussing such sensitive issues that can save or destroy a person eternally, depending on the side you swallowed. Thanks my brother.

@Allwaystrue, My problem is using phone, but i'll try. Lets go back to Gen 3:15, that was when God said the 'seed' of the woman shall bruise the head of the serpent, he was talking about the redemtive work of Jesus, where was Abraham?, i am not taking anything from Abraham, he was God's friend, but no matter how close u are to someone, u cant b closer than that person's child. Oh the faithful Abraham was a good example, but when i recieved Christ nobody mentioned Abraham, it was the love of God in jn 3:16 etc, the gospel of Jesus which i accepted withont proof that made me a christian and not the faith exploits of Abraham. Now, with or without Abraham Jesus would have come, because there was allready a plan b4 Abraham showed up, so Abraham line was just available for the plan to pass through thats why some of us pity Judas Iscariot so much. Abraham being the father of faith did not have anything to do with me bcoming a Christian' i respect him for his faith and being the father of Isreal. My FATHER IS GOD and i know my biological(earthly) father.

Goshen360: ^ Okay. Lemme allow the OP to explain himself then BUT I don't read him saying Abraham is NOT our father in faith, he said our FATHER.....plainly, he doesn't say he is NOT our father in faith means he is not our father according to the flesh.

Being blessed THROUGH Abraham IN Christ is NOT same as being blessed IN Abraham himself. It was the 'seed', Christ that came THROUGH Abraham that we're blessed IN.

@Goshen, Semantics. He said the above and then explained what he meant. It went beyond his title, it was the post which I itemised and responded to.

NLT
Galatians 3:8
“All nations will be blessed through you.”

AMP
Galatians 3:8
In you shall all the nations [of the earth] be blessed.

We are blessed with the blessings of Abraham through faith.

Goshen360:
Lastly, don't get too tied up in KJV if you do. I see from your past posts that you get deeper meaning also from other & many available translations. If you're talking about 'letter of the law', it is simply the law itself. The letter being referred to is the law itself that killeth - look up that verse in many other translations, you'll understand what I'm saying. There's absolutely nothing called the 'spirit' of the law. I can easily grasp what you meant by the 'spirit' behind the law or the intent of the law and that too, we are told the intent(ions) for which the law (of Moses) was given. The law will clearly state exactly what it meant.

II Corinthians 3:13-18
3 We are not like Moses, who put a veil over his face so the people of Israel would not see the glory, even though it was destined to fade away. 14 But the people’s minds were hardened, and to this day whenever the old covenant is being read, the same veil covers their minds so they cannot understand the truth. And this veil can be removed only by believing in Christ.
15 Yes, even today when they read Moses’ writings, their hearts are covered with that veil, and they do not understand.
16 But whenever someone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 For the Lord is the Spirit, and wherever the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.
18 So all of us who have had that veil removed can see and reflect the glory of the Lord. And the Lord—who is the Spirit—makes us more and more like him as we are changed into his glorious image.


Ofcourse, it is the handwriting of the law. Most of the laws were not given with explanation or a message to the spirit. It was all about 'Do not touch this', 'Do not do this'.
Just like you tell a child do not go there, He will never understand until you appeal to His spirit which Christ did. He came to clean the inside of the cup, so the outside is clean and not the other way round.


Matthew 23:25-26
25 “What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you are so careful to clean the outside of the cup and the dish, but inside you are filthy—full of greed and self-indulgence!

26 You blind Pharisee! First wash the inside of the cup and the dish, and then the outside will become clean, too.

The Pharisees took that literarily meanwhile Christ had the better meaning. That is the veil the pharisees could not see past.

Remember Christ said, "no man comes to the father but by me " jn 14:6 and also told the jews, "befor Abraham, I am".

Alwaystrue:
@Goshen, Semantics. He said the above and then explained what he meant. It went beyond his title, it was the post which I itemised and responded to.

NLT
Galatians 3:8
“All nations will be blessed through you.”

AMP
Galatians 3:8
In you shall all the nations [of the earth] be blessed.

We are blessed with the blessings of Abraham through faith.

On the issue of my claiming higher knowledge, that's not an issue here. If I say anything not grounded in sound doctrine, people should challenge me and let's reason the scriptures together. I do not lay claim to omni-science as I'm not. I have said that too many times here on this forum - follow my teachings as I present Christ. If not, let every believer answer for themselves by studying\searching out the truth for themselves.

Lastly, don't get too tied up in KJV if you do. I see from your past posts that you get deeper meaning also from other & many available translations. If you're talking about 'letter of the law', it is simply the law itself. The letter being referred to is the law itself that killeth - look up that verse in many other translations, you'll understand what I'm saying. There's absolutely nothing called the 'spirit' of the law. I can easily grasp what you meant by the 'spirit' behind the law or the intent of the law and that too, we are told the intent(ions) for which the law (of Moses) was given. The law will clearly state exactly what it meant.

GAL:3:8 quoted Gen12:3 ".....and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed" what do u understanding by this statement?

in everything give thanks. JeSoul are you here? there's someone i want you to meet.

christemmbassey: Remember Christ said, "no man comes to the father but by me " jn 14:6 and also told the jews, "befor Abraham, I am".

I think I am beginning to understand where the issue lies. Did anyone say we have to come to God through Abraham. You have mixd it all up.

The bible said, all those in Christ have become heirs of Abraham. Jesus coming helped to fulfil God's promise to Abraham making him a father of all nations. And this nation are those in Christ.

Galatians 3:29
And now that you belong to Christ, you are the true children[t] of Abraham. You are his heirs, and God’s promise to Abraham belongs to you.

Romans 4:16
So the promise is received by faith. It is given as a free gift. And we are all certain to receive it, whether or not we live according to the law of Moses, if we have faith like Abraham’s. For Abraham is the father of all who believe.

christemmbassey: @Allwaystruebut when i recieved Christ nobody mentioned Abraham, it was the love of God in jn 3:16 etc, the gospel of Jesus which i accepted withont proof that made me a christian and not the faith exploits of Abraham.

Now the truth is coming out. Abraham does not save you. You are just a fulfilment of the promise God made to Abraham as seen above. No one said you should worship or idolise Abraham.

christemmbassey: Now, with or without Abraham Jesus would have come, because there was allready a plan b4 Abraham showed up, so Abraham line was just available for the plan to pass through thats why some of us pity Judas Iscariot so much. Abraham being the father of faith did not have anything to do with me bcoming a Christian' i respect him for his faith and being the father of Isreal. My FATHER IS GOD and i know my biological(earthly) father.

There was a plan and Abraham was the worthy person due to His faith. So all this whether or not Abraham was used does not hold water, I will advise you do not even toe that line.
The scripture has said it, that all those who believe and have faith are heirs of Abraham according to promise. God became flesh and came to save the world of their sins and he came through Abraham as promised by God. So before Abraham was, I am is truth and does not even help your argument because Jesus has been since the beginning, the pharisees did not even have the faith of Abraham. It doesn't negate you being a son of God. I really wonder what is scaring you in all this.

Alwaystrue:

I think I am beginning to understand where the issue lies. Did anyone say we have to come to God through Abraham. You have mixd it all up.

The bible said, all those in Christ have become heirs of Abraham. Jesus coming helped to fulfil God's promise to Abraham making him a father of all nations. And this nation are those in Christ.

Galatians 3:29
And now that you belong to Christ, you are the true children[t] of Abraham. You are his heirs, and God’s promise to Abraham belongs to you.

Romans 4:16
So the promise is received by faith. It is given as a free gift. And we are all certain to receive it, whether or not we live according to the law of Moses, if we have faith like Abraham’s. For Abraham is the father of all who believe.





Now the truth is coming out. Abraham does not save you. You are just a fulfilment of the promise God made to Abraham as seen above. No one said you should worship or idolise Abraham.



There was a plan and Abraham was the worthy person due to His faith. So all this whether or not Abraham was used does not hold water, I will advise you do not even toe that line.
The scripture has said it, that all those who believe and have faith are heirs of Abraham according to promise. God became flesh and came to save the world of their sins and he came through Abraham as promised by God. So before Abraham was, I am is truth and does not even help your argument because Jesus has been since the beginning, the pharisees did not even have the faith of Abraham. It doesn't negate you being a son of God. I really wonder what is scaring you in all this.

Now am sure ur attachment to the fatherhood of Abraham will not allow you to understand me. What i want u to undastand is this. 1. The promise/blessing of Abraham was that, Christ will pass through Abraham's line, which to me is a big honour. 2. The blessing to all families of the earth was originally concluded in Gen 3:15 and had nothing to do with Abraham appart from his line. 3. The blessing refers to the Zoe life that Christ was to bring and God never discused or promised redemption of the world with Abraham, my faith was through conviction by the Spirit and it was purely personal choice and Abraham did not assist me in anyway..but as i said Abraham just like Job was a man of greatfaith' if i may ask, what about Job? I tell you, the main reason we talk about Abraham is because of jesus coming tro his line.

Goshen360: ^ I will NOT do much work here since you, Alwaystrue have put everything in proper perspective. The OP does not in any way claim that Abraham IS NOT THE FATHER OF FAITH OR THEM THAT ARE OF FAITH. It is people who will not take time to understand him or rather let him land. I knew he was talking about Abraham, NOT BEING A FATHER OF CHRISTIAN as according to the flesh.

He definitely knows and understands that Abraham is a 'spiritual' father for us who are of faith in Christ. The seed promised was Christ and that is how the whole nations shall be or are blessed IN ABRAHAM, by being in Christ because in THY SEED (singular) shall all the families of the earth be blessed.

Like I said, Abraham is a two-fold meaning man - father or patriarch of the Jewish nation and spiritual (faith) father of all those in Christ.....by faith that it might be by Grace are you saved. In the fulfilled promised, that is in Christ, we are more blessed than Abraham. Hence, I strong those who sing Abraham's blessings are mine do err.

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us, Ephesians 3:20

Christians are in-dwelled by the Spirit of God....power that works IN us. Abraham wasn't indwelled. It is this 'faith' that we are of and that Abraham had in the promised seed and God's covenant that connects us, not the law. That's why you would see, most things that Apostle Paul did was to tear down the law of Moses BUT said, the promise\covenant which was BEFORE the law cannot be abolished.

to be continue

actually my dear, the op didn't use the bolded phase. At the end it seem he has succesfully shouded himself.

christemmbassey: @Allwaystrue, My problem is using phone, but i'll try. Lets go back to Gen 3:15, that was when God said the 'seed' of the woman shall bruise the head of the serpent, he was talking about the redemtive work of Jesus, where was Abraham?, i am not taking anything from Abraham, he was God's friend, but no matter how close u are to someone, u cant b closer than that person's child. Oh the faithful Abraham was a good example, but when i recieved Christ nobody mentioned Abraham, it was the love of God in jn 3:16 etc, the gospel of Jesus which i accepted withont proof that made me a christian and not the faith exploits of Abraham. Now, with or without Abraham Jesus would have come, because there was allready a plan b4 Abraham showed up, so Abraham line was just available for the plan to pass through thats why some of us pity Judas Iscariot so much. Abraham being the father of faith did not have anything to do with me bcoming a Christian' i respect him for his faith and being the father of Isreal. My FATHER IS GOD and i know my biological(earthly) father.

abraham isn't "the father of faith", he is our father in faith.

alexleo:

OH NO! Goshen360 STOP! christembassy truly derailed, why are you trying to patch him up? This was why i was suprised at the manner Frosbel rushed to support him without going thoroughly through his post( At least going by the way he researches and analyzes the scripture). You people seem to be running a gang of teachers who supports each other irrespective of whatever wrong the person has posted and it will not help in this forum. Whatever any anti tithe teacher posts here, all of you in the gang supports blindly even when he is wrong. Next you begin to patch him up. My own is, when you say the truth i endorse and when you lie the next minute i raise my objections. Dont even defend christembassy. He is wrong and thank God "Alwaystrue" did a good job there to correct his errors. I just pity weak minded christians who will swallow every trash here.

Okay Alexleo,

Lemme follow up to quote where Bassey made a clear statement he wasn't referring to Abraham as a father....according to the flesh and he also said he is our father in 'faith' for all who believes. You guys need to understand him first. It's like you're too quick to jump at him so you couldn't get the clear picture. Alex, please read this post below. There's one I need to get and update. Nobody is patching him up but I think you guys didn't cool down to get what he's saying.

christemmbassey: because of what happened on satday, which completly unsetles me, i will just sumarise as follows. 1. Christ advent was to fulfilll God's promise to redeem man in Gen 3:15. 2. God promised to make Abraham father of many nations was fulfiled in the nations of Isreal and did not include christianity, however Christ had to be born from thn nation of Isreal for obvious reasons.(GEN 12:3) 3. Abraham is called the father of faith, because he was the 1st person to display God kind-of faith. Coming from an idol worshiping background, he just head a voice and he obeyed in faith(Gen 12). 4. When God said, "....and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed"Gen12:3,Gal:3:8 WHAT WAS THIS BLESSING?, did this statement meant that Abraham is going to be made the father of ALL families of the eath? No. 5. Now what is the connection between the christian and Abraham? The anser is very simple-FAITH. Abraham believed God and it was imputed unto him for righteousness Jm2:23,Gal3:6 with the same faith the christian believes in his heart that God raised Christ from the dead. "with the heart man believeth unto righteousness...." Rm10:9-10, thats the only thing that conects us with Abraham.-faith, Gal3:9 says "SO THEN THEY WHICH BE OF FAITH ARE BKLESSED WITH THE FAITHFUL ABRAHAM. You see, its because we accept Christ by faith(seed) of Abraham but he is not our projenitor, we were not born of Abraham. 6. Now, who is a christian?, simple, 'a christian is someone who is BORN-AGAIN, 1Peter1:23 says, "being born again, not of coruptible seed, but of incoruptible, BY THE WORD OF GOD, which liveth and abided forever", (kjv) Abraham died, now i will ask, when Christ said, " i am the way the truth and the life, no man cometh unto the FATHER, but by me" jn14:6(kjv) was it Abraham he was refering to? 7. Abraham is the FATHER of the Jews and NOT of the christians. Matt3:9,Luke13:16, 16:22-30, 19:9, jn 8:37-39 acts 3:25, acts 7:2, acts 13:26. Continues in a moment....

^

christemmbassey: Pls this post is not to rob anyone of their Abrahamic paternity neither is it an attempt to force anyone to accept anything, the jast i checked, this is a forum where we all come to share with love as ppl who have recieved liked precious faith, nobody is here to force anybody but to share and i think if you feel strongly against any point the best is to mashall out urs with scriptures and questions, i dont supports this proclivity of throwing away the baby with the bath water. I never said anything about spiritual father(for what so ever that is) or father of faith, i saith, "christians, Abraham is not your FATHER". Christianity did not come as a fulfilment of God's promise to Abraham, but it cam as Gods plan for the restoration of man into his rightful position as the son of the living God, just like the pre-fall Adam who did not need to give God anything to enjoy God's blessings and rule as God intended. We are the children of God and not Abraham and stop singing 'Abraham blessings are mine', for what God has given to us is far more than what he promised or gave to Abraham. Concluded.

Alwaystrue:
I think I am beginning to understand where the issue lies. Did anyone say we have to come to God through Abraham. You have mixd it all up.

The bible said, all those in Christ have become heirs of Abraham. Jesus coming helped to fulfil God's promise to Abraham making him a father of all nations. And this nation are those in Christ.

Galatians 3:29
And now that you belong to Christ, you are the true children[t] of Abraham. You are his heirs, and God’s promise to Abraham belongs to you.

Romans 4:16
So the promise is received by faith. It is given as a free gift. And we are all certain to receive it, whether or not we live according to the law of Moses, if we have faith like Abraham’s. For Abraham is the father of all who believe.





Now the truth is coming out. Abraham does not save you. You are just a fulfilment of the promise God made to Abraham as seen above. No one said you should worship or idolise Abraham.



There was a plan and Abraham was the worthy person due to His faith. So all this whether or not Abraham was used does not hold water, I will advise you do not even toe that line.
The scripture has said it, that all those who believe and have faith are heirs of Abraham according to promise. God became flesh and came to save the world of their sins and he came through Abraham as promised by God. So before Abraham was, I am is truth and does not even help your argument because Jesus has been since the beginning, the pharisees did not even have the faith of Abraham. It doesn't negate you being a son of God. I really wonder what is scaring you in all this.

i'll like to emphasize the bolded.

Ubenedictus: actually my dear, the op didn't use the bolded phase. At the end it seem he has succesfully shouded himself.

You sef, you too funny. Errmm Ermmm, * scratching my head * No mind the OP naw. He wan fumble small na eim I say make I quickly jump in naw before he tear down the roof and the house start to leak...

@ Christemmbassey,

You should have specified more the context of your 'father' meant in the OP. Anyway, Abraham is NOT the 'father' of Christians according to the flesh BUT 'father' as it relates to faith IN CHRIST and as an example of them that are justified by faith and believing in the finished work of Christ.

@Ubenedictus,
Thanks for the correction.

Goshen360:

You sef, you too funny. Errmm Ermmm, * scratching my head * No mind the OP naw. He wan fumble small na eim I say make I quickly jump in naw before he tear down the roof and the house start to leak...

@ Christemmbassey,

You should have specified more the context of your 'father' meant in the OP. Anyway, Abraham is NOT the 'father' of Christians according to the flesh BUT 'father' as it relates to faith IN CHRIST and as an example of them that are justified by faith and believing in the finished work of Christ.

Oh so now you accept he made an error. after initially accepting he spoke the gospel truth, ehn?
You don disown am join, say im for explain better.

The guy never said anything about Abraham, as father of Christians according to the flesh, He was specific about what he meant and explained it was about the spirit, na you no wan gree now just because he aligns with almost all you say. All these your reconciliatory measures just makes it funnier.

Remain small you for endorse message join...'I am Goshen360 and I endorse this message!'

Alwaystrue:

II Corinthians 3:13-18
3 We are not like Moses, who put a veil over his face so the people of Israel would not see the glory, even though it was destined to fade away. 14 But the people’s minds were hardened, and to this day whenever the old covenant is being read, the same veil covers their minds so they cannot understand the truth. And this veil can be removed only by believing in Christ.
15 Yes, even today when they read Moses’ writings, their hearts are covered with that veil, and they do not understand.
16 But whenever someone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 For the Lord is the Spirit, and wherever the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.
18 So all of us who have had that veil removed can see and reflect the glory of the Lord. And the Lord—who is the Spirit—makes us more and more like him as we are changed into his glorious image.


Ofcourse, it is the handwriting of the law. Most of the laws were not given with explanation or a message to the spirit. It was all about 'Do not touch this', 'Do not do this'.
Just like you tell a child do not go there, He will never understand until you appeal to His spirit which Christ did. He came to clean the inside of the cup, so the outside is clean and not the other way round.


Matthew 23:25-26
25 “What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you are so careful to clean the outside of the cup and the dish, but inside you are filthy—full of greed and self-indulgence!

26 You blind Pharisee! First wash the inside of the cup and the dish, and then the outside will become clean, too.

The Pharisees took that literarily meanwhile Christ had the better meaning. That is the veil the pharisees could not see past.

Chei, you're and have really mixed things up big time. What Apostle said in that context is the same Jesus said. The law says what it meant my dear. There's no other way for the law to say whatever it wanted to say. What Paul expounding there was the same Jesus said - that the law was ALL POINTING TO HIM AND REVEALING CHRIST. If you can't see Christ all through the law, then such person have a veil on his\her eyes. Luke 24:27 & John 5:39

How do you equate stone a rebellious son\daughter to death if it doesn't mean what it say? How do you explain stone a false prophet to death in the law if it doesn't mean what it says? How do you explain don't do mix farming or mix clothing if it doesn't mean what it says? What further intent do you want to derive from there? I have explained much of this on the other tithe thread - the intent, purpose and reasons for the law.

As regards "the letter killeth....the Spirit gives life", I don't know what you're talking about but here the scriptures I was referring to when I said, don't be too much into KJV only. It's too heavy and most times, confuses folks BUT I love it though

New Living Translation (©2007)
He has enabled us to be ministers of his new covenant. This is a covenant not of written laws, but of the Spirit. The old written covenant ends in death; but under the new covenant, the Spirit gives life.

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
He has also qualified us to be ministers of a new promise, a spiritual promise, not a written one. Clearly, what was written brings death, but the Spirit brings life.

Weymouth New Testament
It is He also who has made us competent to serve Him in connexion with a new Covenant, which is not a written code but a Spirit; for the written code inflicts death, but the Spirit gives Life.

Expanded Bible (EXB)
He made us ·able [adequate; competent] to be servants of a new ·agreement from himself to his people [covenant; Jer. 31:31–34; Luke 22:20]. This new ·agreement [covenant] is not ·a written law [ of the letter], but it is of the Spirit. The ·written law [ letter] brings death, but the Spirit gives life.

2 Corinthians 3:6

That's what I meant! It was the law of Moses, that is referred to as the "letter" that killeth in KJV. It has nothing to do with studying the text of God's word to understand the truth of the word. I don't know if I made myself clear.

Alwaystrue:

Oh so now you accept he made an error. after initially accepting he spoke the gospel truth, ehn?
You don disown am join, say im for explain better.

The guy never said anything about Abraham, as father of Christians according to the flesh, He was specific about what he meant and explained it was about the spirit, na you no wan gree now just because he aligns with almost all you say. All these your reconciliatory measures just makes it funnier.

Remain small you for endorse message join...'I am Goshen360 and I endorse this message!'

^ ^ You sef...I don dey watch you since o. E be like say you resemble somebody I sabi o ....but make I keep quiet sha I know my brother Christemmbassey will never say Abraham is not the father of them that are of faith because he studies the scriptures as well, so you guys should have cool down small for him to land naw. Una just wan tear the guy into pieces.

Yes, I said he spoke the Gospel truth and followed up with my post that Abraham is the father of the Jewish nation and also of faith to them that believes but not according to the flesh to them that are of faith and so, in that case, he is right. How? Christemmbassey showed the connection and so I did also - Abraham believed God and it credited to him for righteousness so also, we believe in the finished work of Christ and in Christ, so God counts it for us as righteousness.

Goshen360:

You sef, you too funny. Errmm Ermmm, * scratching my head * No mind the OP naw. He wan fumble small na eim I say make I quickly jump in naw before he tear down the roof and the house start to leak...

@ Christemmbassey,

You should have specified more the context of your 'father' meant in the OP. Anyway, Abraham is NOT the 'father' of Christians according to the flesh BUT 'father' as it relates to faith IN CHRIST and as an example of them that are justified by faith and believing in the finished work of Christ.

am using phone so i cant bold where i want to emphasis, remember i told u in one of the tithe thread that i had a BOMB it was because i knew many will misundastand me being very much aware of ppl attachment to Abraham, especially faith teachers and nearly not post. Its unfortunate that i made this post b4 the sad incident of satday which actually unsettles me beyond words. Thatsnot withstanding, i made this post after reading ALMOST all verses that mentioned Abraham especially in the NT. The christian is someone who is born again and the bible in 1Peter1:23-"being born again, not of coruptible seed but of incoruptible, by the WORD of God, which liveth and abided forever", now how can Abraham who was not born again be the father of christian? Is it because his acts of faith was 'imputed' to him as righteousness? I know the problem, it is taking the writings of Paul litterary..

christemmbassey: am using phone so i cant bold where i want to emphasis, remember i told u in one of the tithe thread that i had a BOMB it was because i knew many will misundastand me being very much aware of ppl attachment to Abraham, especially faith teachers and nearly not post. Its unfortunate that i made this post b4 the sad incident of satday which actually unsettles me beyond words. Thatsnot withstanding, i made this post after reading ALMOST all verses that mentioned Abraham especially in the NT. The christian is someone who is born again and the bible in 1Peter1:23-"being born again, not of coruptible seed but of incoruptible, by the WORD of God, which liveth and abided forever", now how can Abraham who was not born again be the father of christian? Is it because his acts of faith was 'imputed' to him as righteousness? I know the problem, it is taking the writings of Paul litterary..

despite goshen semi apology on ya behalf i still think u are shouding yaself, i'll like to go rest now. Is abraham father of christians accoding to faith? Yes or no will be fine.
After your answer, i'll take my leave.

Alwaystrue: @Ubenedictus,
Thanks for the correction.



Oh so now you accept he made an error. after initially accepting he spoke the gospel truth, ehn?
You don disown am join, say im for explain better.

The guy never said anything about Abraham, as father of Christians according to the flesh, He was specific about what he meant and explained it was about the spirit, na you no wan gree now just because he aligns with almost all you say. All these your reconciliatory measures just makes it funnier.

Remain small you for endorse message join...'I am Goshen360 and I endorse this message!'

thats goshen for you, after he endorse, he modifies, you just gat to love d guy

I'll be blunt: This for me is like a storm in a tea cup.

Sir Bassey sorry bout your loss

Ubenedictus: despite goshen semi apology on ya behalf i still think u are shouding yaself, i'll like to go rest now. Is abraham father of christians accoding to faith? Yes or no will be fine.
After your answer, i'll take my leave.

Abraham is the father of faith. God bless.

Ubenedictus: thats goshen for you, after he endorse, he modifies, you just gat to love d guy

^ ^ ^ Yeah, I dey feel you bros. At least, you no be like some wey I know their names for this forum but they are my best friend o wey dem go modify first before them endorse You sabi who I dey talk about shey? No be my mouth you go hear the 'guy' name o

christemmbassey: Abraham is the father of faith. God bless.

a response that is significantly different from the question. I'll ask again, is abraham the father of christian as regards to faith? yes or no, will suffice!

Goshen360:

^ ^ ^ Yeah, I dey feel you bros. At least, you no be like some wey I know their names for this forum but they are my best friend o wey dem go modify first before them endorse You sabi who I dey talk about shey? No be my mouth you go hear the 'guy' name o

wu b the guy?? No put me for trouble oh!

Ubenedictus: a response that is significantly different from the question. I'll ask again, is abraham the father of christian as regards to faith? yes or no, will suffice!

....please underline "as regards to faith".....Bros, you just wan hammer this my brother to reverse his statement sha. You wicked small o