shdemidemi:

If I may ask you, what is the will of the father that makes you qualified for heaven?

That we obey his son whom he sent,imitate him(Jesus) so that we can serve Him(The Father) in spirit and truth and not downgrade him(the Father)..................



For GOOdness sake he is the GOD and Father of Jesus and all of us....

Why subject him to such nonsense called trinity.....

ijawkid:

That we obey his son whom he sent,imitate him(Jesus) so that we can serve Him(The Father) in spirit and truth and not downgrade him(the Father)..................



For GOOdness sake he is the GOD and Father of Jesus and all of us....

Why subject him to such nonsense called trinity.....

I just said what is the will of God that you do that gives you the right to heaven..? simple

ijawkid:

One what?......remember I won't even contest the fact that this rendered verse is spurious to the core.....

I want us to focus on this verse......

They are one what??......one naira or what??.......



Didn't you know Jesus was and is a morning star??.......

Did it escape your research work??......

Jesus was the morning star have nothing to do with his nature... he is also the lamb. so stop running from the question am asking you with silly question like this... I know he is the morning star but that's not what am asking... he is also the rock that's not what am asking. you keep running from that question you never try to answer any question am not surprised though.

95% of the question I have asked him he didn't answer he only just reply with his own question... am not surprised at all... I have been asking couple of question for more than a week same question no time he answered them.

benalvino:

Jesus was the morning star have nothing to do with his nature... he is also the lamb. so stop running from the question am asking you with silly question like this... I know he is the morning star but that's not what am asking... he is also the rock that's not what am asking. you keep running from that question you never try to answer any question am not surprised though.

Ahh the bolded......

Who is a morning star??.....Jesus is described as a lamb because he died a scrificial death.......how about him being a morning star just like the angels??......

Remember I'm trying to say Jesus is Gods spirit son but the first.....

And you haven't answered the greatest question of all time......

1 john 5:7 says and the 3 are one .....

What one??.......one naira ??......

Let me hear from apostle benalvino......

benalvino: 95% of the question I have asked him he didn't answer he only just reply with his own question... am not surprised at all... I have been asking couple of question for more than a week same question no time he answered them.

I have answered your question on if Jesus had a beginning......what more do you want??.......

My job on this thread is to establish Jesus had a beginning......and I have shown it......

ijawkid:

That we obey his son whom he sent,imitate him(Jesus) so that we can serve Him(The Father) in spirit and truth and not downgrade him(the Father)..................



For GOOdness sake he is the GOD and Father of Jesus and all of us....

Why subject him to such nonsense called trinity.....

Show me where the bible says you should obey and imitate Christ to serve the father to be saved?

ijawkid:

I have answered your question on if Jesus had a beginning......what more do you want??.......

My job on this thread is to establish Jesus had a beginning......and I have shown it......

Who is prudence...
Is Jesus
1: man
2: angel
3: a god

And if Jesus was created does it mean he created him self since other was inserted... Without other things it means he created him self.

ijawkid:

One what?..

They are one what??......one naira or what....

abeg make una no kill me with laff here o

shdemidemi:

Show me where the bible says you should obey and imitate Christ to serve the father to be saved?

Oboy.......

John 3:17...

17 For
God did not send his Son into the world to
condemn the world, but to save the world
through him

Jesus is the agent through which we can get to the Father and be saved........

benalvino:
Who is prudence...
Is Jesus
1: man
2: angel
3: a god

And if Jesus was created does it mean he created him self since other was inserted... Without other things it means he created him self.

He is still arguing even when him see create with him eyes.........

I told you the NWT shouldn't be your problem.......

If I was using it for this discussion then you can worry about it.....

Jesus is called the beginning of Gods creation and the firstborn of all creation........

Proverbs defines these words explicitly even though other scriptures had defined these expressions clearly which you didn't accept.....


.........


My Job is done......

ijawkid:

Oboy.......

John 3:17...

17 For
God did not send his Son into the world to
condemn the world, but to save the world
through him

Jesus is the agent through which we can get to the Father and be saved........

may be you missed my question..Show me where the bible says you should obey and imitate Christ to serve the father to be saved?

ijawkid:

He is still arguing even when him see create with him eyes.........

I told you the NWT shouldn't be your problem.......

If I was using it for this discussion then you can worry about it.....

Jesus is called the beginning of Gods creation and the firstborn of all creation........

Proverbs defines these words explicitly even though other scriptures had defined these expressions clearly which you didn't accept.....


.........


My Job is done......

create for where... you see what I said? you don't answer the questions you look for a way to escape it. you making excuse all the time. quote your proverb abeg

benalvino:

create for where... you see what I said? you don't answer the questions you look for a way to escape it. you making excuse all the time.

I quoted scriptures that defines what it means to be the beginning of another persons handi work......

I opened proverbs which uses the same expreSsion and it drove the point of the subject been created,born,formed,produced,.......

You denied it all.....

Oya explain wetin e mean to be the beginning of Gods creation you keep quiet dey define what only the word beginning means(arche)......

Are you a sincere person??.......

If Jesus is not part of Gods creation then he isn't the beginning of Gods creation.....

Chikena.....

shdemidemi:

may be you missed my question..Show me where the bible says you should obey and imitate Christ to serve the father to be saved?

The scripture I quoted explains that....

How else do you get to the Father if you don't obey the words which he gave to his son to tell us......if you don't imitate Christ and follow the words that came out of his mouth how do you get to the Father??.....

That scripture I quoted answers your question jare......

ijawkid:

I quoted scriptures that defines what it means to be the beginning of another persons handi work......

I opened proverbs which uses the same expreSsion and it drove the point of the subject been created,born,formed,produced,.......

You denied it all.....

Oya explain wetin e mean to be the beginning of Gods creation you keep quiet dey define what only the word beginning means(arche)......

Are you a sincere person??.......

If Jesus is not part of Gods creation then he isn't the beginning of Gods creation.....

Chikena.....

funny... just link me to both verse abeg... then try answer the questions. was there a time God was without wisdom?
who is prudence wisdom dwell with? why did wisdom cry out... you cant answer all you do is misquote it... but we already know you na... you never answer questions your whole believe they Belittle God... that there was a time he never had wisdom. am asking was there a time God have to create his own wisdom? that is what you don't want to under... but apply different type of excuse.

benalvino:

funny... just link me to both verse abeg... then try answer the questions. was there a time God was without wisdom?
who is prudence wisdom dwell with? why did wisdom cry out... you cant answer all you do is misquote it... but we already know you na... you never answer questions your whole believe they Belittle God... that there was a time he never had wisdom. am asking was there a time God have to create his own wisdom? that is what you don't want to under... but apply different type of excuse.

If that proverbs says the wisdom which was talking was created what does that tell you??

Now did that verse say that that wisdom in question was the wisdom inside of GOD??......


The problem is that you deny the word creation in proverbs you've read.......

wisdom says he was the beginning of Gods creative works.....and behold it further says ""I WAS BORN"".......was formed.....

God had his personal wisdom and senses intact.......

Can you remember when it was said in the scriptures that something more than solomon is to come??......

Gods wisdom was displayed and manifested through his firstborn son Jesus Christ the greater solomon.........

Jesus is wisdom from God.....

When Jesus came didn't you see how he displayed Godly wisdom??......

Matthew 12:42

New Living Translation (©2007)
The queen of Sheba will also stand
up against this generation on
judgment day and condemn it, for
she came from a distant land to
hear the wisdom of Solomon. Now
someone greater than Solomon is
here--but you refuse to listen.

ijawkid:

If that proverbs says the wisdom which was talking was created what does that tell you??

Now did that verse say that that wisdom in question was the wisdom inside of GOD??......


The problem is that you deny the word creation in proverbs you've read.......

wisdom says he was the beginning of Gods creative works.....and behold it further says ""I WAS BORN"".......was formed.....

God had his personal wisdom and senses intact.......

Can you remember when it was said in the scriptures that something more than solomon is to come??......

Gods wisdom was displayed and manifested through his firstborn son Jesus Christ the greater solomon.........

Jesus is wisdom from God.....

When Jesus came didn't you see how he displayed Godly wisdom??......

the actual Word is Possess take note...

God have a personal wisdom then he created wisdom... are you listening to your self?

now you are saying GOD wisdom was displayed and manifested through his wisdom he created... clap for your self...
Jesus is wisdom from God a wisdom he created so he can manifest the Wisdom he didn't create through the wisdom he created... lmao you no go kill me for laugh. you go kill me for laugh.

the actual word for Create is bara(create, shape, form etc...)
the word used in proverb is qanah (buy, acquire, possess, create... etc) we all know that there was never a time God was without wisdom... that is something he already possess he didn't acquire it from somewhere but it is something he already possess.

your explanation just they make me laugh... and if you choose create then all the contradiction whatsoever will be on your head like jesus creating him self. God was without wisdom etc.

benalvino:
the actual Word is Possess take note...

God have a personal wisdom then he created wisdom... are you listening to your self?

now you are saying GOD wisdom was displayed and manifested through his wisdom he created... clap for your self...
Jesus is wisdom from God a wisdom he created so he can manifest the Wisdom he didn't create through the wisdom he created... lmao you no go kill me for laugh. you go kill me for laugh.

the actual word for Create is bara(create, shape, form etc...)
the word used in proverb is qanah (buy, acquire, possess, create... etc) we all know that there was never a time God was without wisdom... that is something he already possess he didn't acquire it from somewhere but it is something he already possess.

your explanation just they make me laugh... and if you choose create then all the contradiction whatsoever will be on your head like jesus creating him self. God was without wisdom etc.

Please check up the hebrew word used at verses 23 and 24.....

2 verses after verse 22 it is said this wisdom is born........

Please check it up....

and check also what was used at psalms 90:2.........

And please answer this question....

When it is said that davids throne is Gods throne,does it mean God was without a throne??"......


I have clearly shown you how Jesus is wisdom from God...its left for you to be adamant as ever...........

I'm happy that quanah still means create.....

The next question is if u insist that possesed should be used,shouldn't it be used for the mountains and waters that this so called wisdom was possessed before they were possessed??

Wisdom says before the mountains were brough forth I was born....

New Living Translation (©2007)
I was born before the oceans
were created, before the springs
bubbled forth their waters.


Oboy its in your hands........

If Jesus never is part of Gods creative works but the first of it then its a lie to say he is the beginning of Gods creation......

Lie lie guy, You again !

I Jawkid had answered this the other other thread, but you are hear posting irrelevant things.

This debates on this is it NWT that Ijawkid has been using ? No.

So, what brought NWT into this debate ?

You fraud attempting to maligned Ijawkid and NWT.

The scripture below was given as the basis for the "(other)" use in the new world translation for clarification of the massage and scriptural consistency.

Does the word of God contradicts itself ? No.

Shame on you and your lies.

benalvino: Jehovah's Witnesses rightly assert that there can only be two types of entities in existence: a Creator and
creatures. Then, following a line of reasoning first made popular in the fourth century A.D. by the heretic Arius, of Alexandria, they presuppose (a priori) that any one being cannot be more than one person, and therefore, that God cannot exist as more than one person. Since Jesus identified God as His Father, another person, Watchtower reasoning declares Jesus Christ cannot be God and must therefore be a creature. To justify their erroneous conclusions the Watchtower resorts to dangerous proof-texting, hoping to win "biblical" support.
One important passage they use is Colossians 1:15; "Who [Christ] is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:" Seen through the Watchtower's presupposition that Christ is a created being, the "firstborn" of this passage means "first created." In other words, Christ was the one first created by Jehovah Nod. It is only after Christ's creation that God made everything else, using Christ as an instrument. This is a very faulty interpretation.
Like me and my friend ijawkid debated on this matter and I think he is not sincere about this topic so I want any one who is reading to give their opinion on what they think and I also urge my friend to rebuttal this if he can.

Understanding the Scripture

Proper understanding of Colossians 1:15 is primarily an issue of context, both literary and historical. One must begin by understanding how words derive and convey meaning. Most words in any language are not isolated, mechanical entities with a singular meaning. They usually have at least two levels of meaning. The first level is the pool of associated meanings that may attach to any given word. For instance, in English the word "love" has a wide variety of meanings that range anywhere from emotional bliss to preference in what one eats. The meaning of, "I love my wife" is quite different from, "I love boile and pounded yam." Consider also such words as "state," "pen," "truth" or "home." Like "love," these words carry multiple nuances of meaning, depending on their usage.

This suggests the second level of the meaning of words, which is the precise meaning determined by context. Many words are somewhat nebulous in meaning until they stand in relationship to other words. When one fills out a job application and comes to the part that asks him what state he lives in, he knows to answer, for example, "Bayelsa," but not "Solid" (a state of matter). or What is your sex, he knows to answer "Male" or "Female," but not if he is gay or if he had sex etc. Words in literary context (i.e. their relationship to words around them) are what deliver meaning.

Naturally, this analysis of word meanings holds true for the scripture as well. Finding truth in God's Word depends on first finding the intention of the inspired author, based upon his word usage and its syntax (relationship to the other words in the context).

The Watchtower(Jehovah witness) neglects this understanding and basis of all language, and opts for what some call an "absurd literalism," which unnecessarily forces literal and singular meanings upon words regardless of context. This drives the meaning of some words to absurdity. Such is the fate of the word "firstborn" in the hands of Watchtower dogma lol he likes calling my doctrine dogma.

Linguistic Context

The argument that "firstborn" means "firstcreated" in Col. 1:15 can seem true when one considers the pool of meaning for the word (although "first offspring" would better reflect the meaning of the Greek word used here: prototokos). "First created" is one of the many, and even more literal meanings of the word. The problem is that the context clearly shows that "first created" was not Paul's intended meaning in Colossians.

Paul uses the same basic word for "all things" in v.16-17 as he used in his expression "every creature" (all creation) in v.15. Syntactically then, Paul says Jesus existed before (v. 17), created (v.16) and sustains (v.17) that set of things of which he is the "first born" (v.15), i.e., the set of "all creation." This agrees with John, who says, "In the beginning was the Word (literal Greek "...was existing the Word." John's use of the imperfect tense shows continuous duration of existence in the past).... All things were made by Him; and without Him was not anything made that was made" (John 1:1,3).

If Paul had meant "first created" when he wrote prototokos, at Col. 1:15, then his following statements make Christ Himself a part of those very things which Paul says Christ created and sustains, and before which He existed. now this is what ijawkid and his entourage wont accept that Jesus created him self and the fact that their bible scholars or the
Watchtower leaders themselves evidently understand this fact and have felt the need to resolve the logical conflict. To justify their position, the Watchtower, in its New World Translation (NWT) of the Scriptures, does violence to the verses that follow. The word "other" is inserted four times, to alter their meaning: "Because by means of him all (other) things were created....he is before all (other) things" etc. (Colossians 1:16, 17, NWT). This is notably different from what the Apostle Paul actually wrote, an "all" inclusive of everything ever created. There is no "other" in v. 16 and 17 in the Greek text, either latent or explicit, and there is no way to justify its insertion. It is scholastic dishonesty.

So then what does prototokos mean if not "first created?" The best way to determine this is to choose from the word's pool of meaning the idea that flows best with what Paul is saying. He uses the word again in v. 18, where he also provides forceful evidence of his intended meaning with the words, "that in all things He might have the preeminence." The literary context shows Paul's usage of prototokos in Colossians 1 refers to Christ's supremacy.

Historical Context

The historical context bears out this conclusion as well. There is a strong association of the firstborn child with preeminence and inheritance in Hebrew culture. The firstborn male inherited a double portion of his father's estate and became the new leader at his father's death (Deuteronomy 21:15-17). His right of primogeniture made him preeminent in his family.

The term gradually came to refer to the one who was the heir and had the right to rule whether or not he was literally the first one born ("first created". The most striking example of this is in the Old Testament from where the idea originally derived. Genesis 41:51-52 says, "And Joseph called the name of the firstborn Mannasseh:...and the name of the second called he Ephraim..." Yet in contrast to this, speaking in Jeremiah God says, "For I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn." Evidently, there is more to the term "firstborn" than the first offspring. Israel was also called the firstborn God so as David even though David is not the firstborn or first created.

Additional support is found in the fact that the Greek word prototokos occurs nine times in the New Testament _ ten times if you include the related word for "birthright" (prototokia). Seven of these nine times the word refers to Christ. Out of these seven only two refer to Christ as one who is firstborn in a physically literal sense, and these refer to Him being Mary's firstborn son (Matthew 1:25; Luke 2:7). Otherwise the use is obviously one of preeminence and cannot refer to some presupposed creation (e.g. Romans 8:29; For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren). The key word to note here is "he might be the firstborn" if he is the firstborn already why is the verse saying he might be the firstborn? can someone explain this to me with JW logic?

(Revelation 1:5). Once this word even refers to believers as belonging to "the church of the firstborn ones" (literal Greek, Hebrews 12:23). Again, the emphasis here is on preeminence and privilege, not order of creation.

The Context for Sharing

how should one respond to Jehovah's Witnesses who attack the deity of Christ? It is most important to keep in mind that sharing the truth with a Jehovah's Witness is not merely proving a case, they have been taught not to think out of the box so it is going to be hard. I have learnt few things from ijawkids doctrine and I always tell him what I learn. but he has never learnt anything from me. so how should one respond to JWs? the only way he can learn about this "Firstborn" wahala is not go the way of grammar and linguistics, but a demonstration of the clear teaching of the scripture, in context. Start with the context of Colossians 1. Show that the word cannot have two different meanings in the same context, and then try to plug in the "first created" meaning into verse eighteen, to read "first created from the dead." This is obviously meaningless, so there must be more to the idea of "firstbornness."

If they still want to defend their ungrounded position, they should read Genesis 41:51-52. then read Jeremiah 31:9. these are the words of God, so am askong, "Did God make a mistake, or is He using 'firstborn' in the sense of 'preeminence'?" Obviously, the latter is true. This coordinates exactly with the context and obviously intended meaning of Paul in Colossians.

Paul spoke in the same manner as God had spoken in the Old Testament, making Christ the Heir of all creation, the One not only by whom, but for whom everything was made (Col. 1:16). He is the head, the ruler, the creator, the preeminent One over all creation. Indeed, the central thrust of Paul's arguement throughout the doctrinal portion of Colossians is the preeminence, superiority and sufficiency of Christ. In no way does he reduce Christ to anything less than Deity. thank you

"For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all." (1 Corinthians 15:27-28).

................

^
The part on red escaped your lying heart.

That Jesus creating all things "excepted the father".

Keep deceiving yourself.

@benalnivo...

Proverbs 8:25

New International Version
(©2011)
before the mountains were
settled in place, before the hills,
I was given birth,

New Living Translation (©2007)
Before the mountains were
formed, before the hills, I was
born--


Which is used here.....quana or the other hebrew word??.......

I was given birth to,I was born,I was formed......

Its up to you....

ijawkid:

Please check up the hebrew word used at verses 23 and 24.....

2 verses after verse 22 it is said this wisdom is born........

Please check it up....

and check also what was used at psalms 90:2.........

And please answer this question....

When it is said that davids throne is Gods throne,does it mean God was without a throne??"......


I have clearly shown you how Jesus is wisdom from God...its left for you to be adamant as ever...........

I'm happy that quanah still means create.....

The next question is if u insist that possesed should be used,shouldn't it be used for the mountains and waters that this so called wisdom was possessed before they were possessed??

Wisdom says before the mountains were brough forth I was born....

New Living Translation (©2007)
I was born before the oceans
were created, before the springs
bubbled forth their waters.


Oboy its in your hands........

If Jesus never is part of Gods creative works but the first of it then its a lie to say he is the beginning of Gods creation......

taking words out of context with psalms 90:1-3... I have told you several times... stop quoting this verse saying they link. na wa for you o? see the psalm 90:1-3
1Lord, you have been our dwelling place in all generations. 2Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever you had formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, you are God. 3You turn man to destruction; and say, Return, you children of men... you are plainly persistent.

when the bible says David throne is God throne very funny... the bible says david is the father of Jesus because of their linage and he will inherent david throne I don't see the point of this question... throne is not an attribute like wisdom... it says Jesus created all thrones in heaven and earth. throne did not later create anything.

you are happy that kanah(qanah) still means create that is why you are happy that God was with no wisdom at some point... you better do the right thing... KJV says possess if you like deceive your self then land for contradiction na you sabi. Wisdom exist in GOD eternally that is why saying create is a bad interpretation.

I don't know where you are getting your translations from but they are bad I must say.
proverbs 8:22-24
The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. 23I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was. 24When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water

there is nothing like born... we have told you do stick with KJV stop switching from one bible to the other... at least NIV and KJV. you just they quote from bibles who making the Word of God contradict its self anyhow.

can you get you kingdom interlinear? how can it be use for water and mountain?
when you close your mind so hard it will be hard for you to accept truth.
you always look for bibles that mess up the translations.

New Living translation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Living_Translation
Wikipedia tells you how their translations is misleading in translation philosophy

ijawkid:




Didn't you know Jesus was and is a morning star??.......

Did it escape your research work??......

Point of correction here Jesus was called the bright and morning star(TITLE) and not the morning star which was also used for lucifer.Go do the research.

ijawkid:


Jesus is called the beginning of Gods creation and the firstborn of all creation........




.

Another error here Jesus firstborn is over all creation and not of creation.Go read other renditions and stop being fixated over one just to score a cheap point.

truthislight: Lie lie guy, You again !

I Jawkid had answered this the other other thread, but you are hear posting irrelevant things.

This debates on this is it NWT that Ijawkid has been using ? No.

So, what brought NWT into this debate ?

You fraud attempting to maligned Ijawkid and NWT.

The scripture below was given as the basis for the "(other)" use in the new world translation for clarification of the massage and scriptural consistency.

Does the word of God contradicts itself ? No.

Shame on you and your lies.




"For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all." (1 Corinthians 15:27-28).

................

^
The part on red escaped your lying heart.

That Jesus creating all things "excepted the father".

Keep deceiving yourself.

this dude head na coconut sheie!!
na this you use justify for adding to God's word? i don the confirm say jehovah witness na cult from the way them they behave if you join baptize you wan leave you go pay the price the punishment

Itsfacts:

this dude head na coconut sheie!!
na this you use justify for adding to God's word? i don the confirm say jehovah witness na cult from the way them they behave if you join baptize you wan leave you go pay the price the punishment

could you kindly stay on topic and no personal attack. you can ignore truthislight he is butt hurt.

benalvino:

taking words out of context with psalms 90:1-3... I have told you several times... stop quoting this verse saying they link. na wa for you o? see the psalm 90:1-3
1Lord, you have been our dwelling place in all generations. 2Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever you had formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, you are God. 3You turn man to destruction; and say, Return, you children of men... you are plainly persistent.

when the bible says David throne is God throne very funny... the bible says david is the father of Jesus because of their linage and he will inherent david throne I don't see the point of this question... throne is not an attribute like wisdom... it says Jesus created all thrones in heaven and earth. throne did not later create anything.

you are happy that kanah(qanah) still means create that is why you are happy that God was with no wisdom at some point... you better do the right thing... KJV says possess if you like deceive your self then land for contradiction na you sabi. Wisdom exist in GOD eternally that is why saying create is a bad interpretation.

I don't know where you are getting your translations from but they are bad I must say.
proverbs 8:22-24
The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. 23I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was. 24When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water

there is nothing like born... we have told you do stick with KJV stop switching from one bible to the other... at least NIV and KJV. you just they quote from bibles who making the Word of God contradict its self anyhow.

can you get you kingdom interlinear? how can it be use for water and mountain?
when you close your mind so hard it will be hard for you to accept truth.
you always look for bibles that mess up the translations.

New Living translation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Living_Translation
Wikipedia tells you how their translations is misleading in translation philosophy

Please from the kjv u quoted on psalm 90:2....

What does the mountains being brought forth mean??.........

You evaded that text to still delude yourself........

And what do you think the hebrew word that was used in psalms 90;2 and proverbs 8:24 connote??.....

Please what does it mean when it is said the mountains were brought forth??.....

Oya let us consider the KJV together!..........

Since you have become a KJV onlysist........

Explain what It means when the mountains was brought forth..........

Bidam: Another error here Jesus firstborn is over all creation and not of creation.Go read other renditions and stop being fixated over one just to score a cheap point.

Beginning of Gods creation nkor??.......

ya eye blind......??.......

Bidam: Another error here Jesus firstborn is over all creation and not of creation.Go read other renditions and stop being fixated over one just to score a cheap point.

O.k. o. Revelation 3:14- and to the angel of the church of Laodecia write: These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, [/b] the Beginning of the creation by God[b] - New King James Version

He now condemns all other translations except the KJV........

......

And back to the throne issue....

How is davids throne still the same as Gods throne??......

You rigmaroled through it with no answer..

Is it not obvious that since Jesus is giving power and invited to sit with God on his throne then Gods own throne is excepted from the thrones which God created through Jesus??........



How amazing how you have rjected the linking word. "through"........

May I ask you.....

Is the Father under the authority of the son??........

honeychild:

O.k. o. Revelation 3:14- and to the angel of the church of Laodecia write: These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, [/b] the Beginning of the creation by God[b] - New King James Version

The man/boy na mumu.......

They have dodged firstborn definition till they have become confused......

Now the beginning of the creation by GOD is what benalvino and every single one of them can't explain but yet they keep yapping.......