hisblud: on your authority, that is blasphemy? Hmm!

The Jews will spit on you for calling the Ancient of days a MAN, indeed they were expecting a messiah but he was to be of human origin , not some mythical half god half man pagan nonsense.

This is the reason why the bible says people like you prevent others from coming into the kingdom by making the word of GOD null and void with your man made traditions.

Jews, Muslims, atheists and a horde of others ,who have an interest in knowing the truth , are put off by your irrational, chaotic and mystic teachings , which have no bearing to the truth.

"The LORD swore to David a sure oath from which he will not turn back: “One of the sons of your body I will set on your throne." - Psalm 132:11

Mr anony:
Lol, sometimes I really feel sorry for you lot and all the scripture you have to diligently deny in order to keep your false doctrine afloat.

your fake lols will not deter us from pounding your pagan myths into the ground , until they are revealed for what they are, fables and myths.

frosbel:

Look at this hypocrite who is immersed into false doctrine asking me to repent , lol.

Remove the LOG from your Pharisee eyes before you see clearly to remove the speck in the eyes of others.

It is interesting to notice that in 6 pages and counting, you are yet to tell us anything about the topic of your thread.

#FrosbelExposed

Mr anony:
It is interesting to notice that in 6 pages and counting, you are yet to tell us anything about the topic of your thread.

#FrosbelExposed

In which case you may have a problem with English comprehension, I suggest you go back to page 1 and start all over again.

frosbel:

your fake lols will not deter us from pounding your pagan myths into the ground , until they are revealed for what they are, fables and myths.

Lol, I can see that you are now trying hard to derail your own thread in the hope that you can evade the question of Christ's pre-existence which you initiated yourself.

frosbel:

In which case you may have a problem with English comprehension, I suggest you go back to page 1 and start all over again.

I have and I didn't see anything resembling a reason. Can you post a link to the specific post you are talking about?

ijawkid:

Deny what!!...

Now you are happy that hisblud dug out the HRV which I'm still struggling to find the next verse online........

Now you just agreed that Yahweh came from heaven......

Oya just tell us why Yahweh who is Yahweh himself did not know when the world would end....

Don't quote phillipians anymore.....Yahweh came to the earth as a man by your conclusion..........

You guys don't even understand the gravity of your assertions.......

Nonsense!!!!!!.........

Please tell hisblud to quote the next verse from the HRV and let's see....

Lol, do you now have a problem with Phillipians because it doesn't fit into your doctrine?

Mr anony:
I have and I didn't see anything resembling a reason. Can you post a link to the specific post you are talking about?

in which case you may have problems with reasoning.

frosbel:

in which case you may have problems with reasoning.

Hahahaha, frosbel is it really that hard to link me to this post of yours?

Mr anony:
Hahahaha, frosbel is it really that hard to link me to this post of yours?

It's only a mouse click away, Page 1.

Phew!!

Okay for those who want us to continue this debate without the usual detractors, let's carry on.

@shdemidemi: , let's carry on from where stopped.

frosbel:

It's only a mouse click away, Page 1.

Which of your posts in particular on page 1 are you referring to?

frosbel: Phew!!

Okay for those who want us to continue this debate without the usual detractors, let's carry on.

@shdemidemi: , let's carry on from where stopped.

Respond to this and stop dodging.

https://www.nairaland.com/1321883/did-jesus-preexist-birth-honeychild/5#16525203

Mr anony:
Lol, do you now have a problem with Phillipians because it doesn't fit into your doctrine?

I have never read philippians and mistook it to mean what you guys propagate it to be......only a twisted mind reads those verses and think otherwise....

I am asking you mr Anony to help Yahweh explain why he was starkly ignorant of a fact but someone else knew.....

The reason why I say don't quote philipians again is because it would choke you up...

Because at the end of the day this Jesus never dropped his divinity but ,rather he is even YHWH that came from heaven....

........

Mr anony:
Respond to this and stop dodging.

https://www.nairaland.com/1321883/did-jesus-preexist-birth-honeychild/5#16525203

try this first and maybe we can have a civil discussion.

https://www.nairaland.com/1321883/did-jesus-preexist-birth-honeychild#16388031

ijawkid:

I have never read philippians and mistook it to mean what you guys propagate it to be......only a twisted mind reads those verses and think otherwise....

I am asking you mr Anony to help Yahweh explain why he was starkly ignorant of a fact but someone else knew.....

The reason why I say don't quote philipians again is because it would choke you up...

Because at the end of the day this Jesus never dropped his divinity but ,rather he is even YHWH that came from heaven....

........

I really can't make any sense of what you wrote up there. What don't you understand by God laying down His God privileges and humbling Himself to becoming the man Jesus Christ?

Mr anony:
I really can't make any sense of what you wrote up there. What don't you understand by God laying down His God privileges and humbling Himself to becoming the man Jesus Christ?

How can YHWH drop his God priviledges??....are you sick or something??......

if I go by your rubbish "drop God priviledge ish" how should that make YHWH ignorant of anything but rather recognize that someone else knows something he is ignorant of.....

Philipians 2:5-6 cannot help you o.......

And you had better make sense of what ever I write because you guys are very sick people who have rubbished who the Father is.......

ijawkid:


How can YHWH drop his God priviledges??....are you sick or something??......

if I go by your rubbish "drop God priviledge ish" how should that make YHWH ignorant of anything but rather recognize that someone else knows something he is ignorant of.....

Philipians 2:5-6 cannot help you o.......

And you had better make sense of what ever I write because you guys are very sick people who have rubbished who the Father is.......

I gave up on this guy long time, the guy comes with an already made up mind set that is not ready to learn. Who ever tries to share the word with him is only wasting time. I am sure the fellow came in through his parent to the religion, if not he would not accept who he calls the father all together.

Mr anony:
I really can't make any sense of what you wrote up there. What don't you understand by God laying down His God privileges and humbling Himself to becoming the man Jesus Christ?

He is probably talking about the book of Acts where Peter was asking when Christ would return the kingdom back to Israel.

frosbel:

try this first and maybe we can have a civil discussion.

https://www.nairaland.com/1321883/did-jesus-preexist-birth-honeychild#16388031

Finally after much dancing around, he agrees to defend his position. Let us examine his work shall we?

First remember that the question is:Did Jesus Christ exist before He was born physically as a man?

frosbel:
"This is how Jesus the Messiah was born. His mother, Mary, was engaged to be married to Joseph. But before the marriage took place, while she was still a virgin, she became pregnant through the power of the Holy Spirit." - This is how Jesus the Messiah was born. His mother, Mary, was engaged to be married to Joseph. But before the marriage took place, while she was still a virgin, she became pregnant through the power of the Holy Spirit - Matthew 1:18

Notice that how Christ was born tells us absolutely nothing about whether or not He existed before His birth.

The verse above explains, if you remove all the complex theology of incarnation , the simple and natural process by which Jesus came into the world just like any other MAN ,with one small difference, his mother conceived not by the implanted seed of MAN ,but by the Power of the Holy Spirit.

Notice that you have not given any reason why we should remove "the complex theology of incarnation". You have merely suggested we do so. Secondly, what does it mean to be concieved by the power of the Holy Ghost and how does this disprove anything about the pre-existence of Christ? I sincerely hope for your sake that you are not trying to suggest that Mary and the Holy Ghost had some sort of Spiritual sexual intercourse.

You begin to wonder why Jesus said these things have been revealed to babes, it is the wise who form volumes and volumes of garbage called theology and end up muddling the simple process by which the Messiah was born into the world.

An unnecessary addendum since you haven't yet said anything that would convince any one that Christ did not exist before His physical birth

In fact this was predicted in Psalms by David when he said :

"The king proclaims the LORD's decree: "The LORD said to me, 'You are my son. Today I have become your Father." - Psalm 2:7


Clearly there was a DAY that Jesus became the Son of GOD and this was when Mary gave birth to him.

And where in the bible did you read that this "DAY" referred to in Psalms was the same day Mary gave birth to Jesus? (mind you Hebrews chapter 1 tells a whole different story because there the Father goes on to say in verse 10 that the Son laid the foundations of the earth in the beginning and the heavens are the works of His hands.)

The Messiah came in the flesh, he did not come as some greek mythological half god and half man, that is the stuff of Pagans.

Another unnecessary point because we all agree that the Messaih came in the flesh. The question is: Did He exist before He came in the flesh?

Let's look at another beautiful scripture :

Psalm 80:17-19
New International Version (NIV)
17 Let your hand rest on the man at your right hand,
the son of man you have raised up for yourself.
18 Then we will not turn away from you;
revive us, and we will call on your name.


Clearly Jesus was raised up for a purpose that God has planned throughout the ages , for the salvation of his people and thus the entire world.

And this proves that Christ did not exist before His birth how?

Moses attested to this when he said :

"The LORD your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your fellow Israelites. You must listen to him." - Deuteronomy 18:15

Clearly God was going to raise his SON from among the people of GOD , for the salvation of the whole world.

Jesus was a 100% MAN and Son of the living GOD.

Why make a simple case complex ?

Once again, you have told us absolutely nothing about whether Christ existed before His birth or not. You have not even made a simple case to start with not to talk of "complex"

For further reference read Matthew 1:21 .

Matthew 1:21 And she shall bear a son, and you shall call His name JESUS: for He shall save His people from their sins.

I don't see how Matthew 1:21 tells us anything about whether or not Jesus Christ existed before His birth.

Now let us look at what Jesus actually said about where He came from before coming to earth in the flesh. I'll just repeat myself again.

"Brethren, why don't we end this nonsense once and for all.

Frosbel has claimed that Jesus did not exist before he was physically born

Jesus has answered by saying:

No one has ascended into heaven except the one who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.(John 3:13)


Everything that the Father gives me will come to me, and anyone who comes to me I will never drive away; for I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him who sent me. (John 6:37-38)

......When many of his disciples heard it, they said, "This teaching is difficult; who can accept it?" But Jesus, being aware that his disciples were complaining about it, said to them, "Does this offend you? Then what if you were to see [size=14pt]the Son of Man ascending to where he was before[/size]? (John 6:60-62)

The above words of Jesus Christ himself are explicitly clear and unambiguous."

How do you respond?

shdemidemi:

I gave up on this guy long time, the guy comes with an already made up mind set that is not ready to learn. Who ever tries to share the word with him is only wasting time. I am sure the fellow came in through his parent to the religion, if not he would not accept who he calls the father all together.

Ahhh!!!!....

And I believe you came here to learn ..right??....

What have I got to learn from polytheists??.......

I mean you guys are freaking sick........

What have I to learn from people who can confidently say our heavenly YHWH the Father can die....

Weren't you the adamant fellow who was trying to convince your proud self that YHWH lied when he said that no one can see Him and yet live.....you denied Jesus' own words that no man hath seen God anytime.....

And you come out here telling me I have an already made mind set.......

Rubbish!!!!......

shdemidemi:

He is probably talking about the book of Acts where Peter was asking when Christ would return the kingdom back to Israel.

Abeg help anony answer why YHWH turn ignorant.......

because he abandoned his God priviledges......

.....

Arrant rubbish..!!!!!

ijawkid:

Abeg help anony answer why YHWH turn ignorant.......

because he abandoned his God priviledges......

.....

Arrant rubbish..!!!!!

You are gradually becoming a nuisance. They give you reasons why you are wrong, you don't even think about it, you treat responses to your ignorance with disdain, you will then come up with a fresh argument. When they answer your fresh argument , you rush back to the initial one.

In the book of acts1 they asked Christ 6 So when they were assembled, they asked Him, Lord, is this the time when You will reestablish the kingdom and restore it to Israel?

The question was a legitimate question but Christ had other plans before that could happen which is the gospel of grace for the entire world to get saved.

Christ did not say no, it won't happen. He said to them, It is not for you to become acquainted with and know what time brings [the things and events of time and their definite periods] or fixed [c]years and seasons (their critical niche in time), which the Father has appointed (fixed and reserved) by His own choice and authority and personal power[/

ijawkid: How can YHWH drop his God priviledges??....are you sick or something??......

if I go by your rubbish "drop God priviledge ish" how should that make YHWH ignorant of anything but rather recognize that someone else knows something he is ignorant of.....

Philipians 2:5-6 cannot help you o.......

And you had better make sense of what ever I write because you guys are very sick people who have rubbished who the Father is.......

Lol, this is very simple.
1. Can God humble Himself? Yes He can. Why?
1a. If He can't humble Himself then He is demanding from man something that is beyond His ability and therefore cannot be God.
1b. If He can humble Himself, then He can indeed take upon Himself the form of a man and to do that He'll have to let go of some of His God privileges.

2. Does God have infinite love? Yes He does. How?
2a. If God is monadic in nature, then before creation, there was no other person to love because love can only exist in a relationship between persons. It would only be possible for God to love after creation and hence God would have to learn to love and therefore cannot be said to be omniscient.
2b. If God is Trinity, then Love can easily exist eternally in the Godhead i.e. God is Love

Now if he second Person of the Trinity (the Son) gives up His God privileges and takes the form of flesh, it is perfectly easy to see how He (Christ) won't know what the Father knows while He remains in the flesh. However this doesn't contradict the fact that God knows all things.

The problem is that you conceive the Trinity as 3 Gods rather than 3 Persons of one God. Until you can understand that, you will find the scripture difficult. In fact it is impossible for salvation by grace through faith to happen if God is monadic in nature. The sacrifice of the life of a mere man simply cannot atone for sin

shdemidemi:

I gave up on this guy long time, the guy comes with an already made up mind set that is not ready to learn. Who ever tries to share the word with him is only wasting time. I am sure the fellow came in through his parent to the religion, if not he would not accept who he calls the father all together.

Ijawkid is the side attraction here. It is really frosbel's response I am interested in. Especially as pertains the topic of this thread.

shdemidemi:

You are gradually becoming a nuisance. They give you reasons why you are wrong, you don't even think about it, you treat responses to your ignorance with disdain, you will then come up with a fresh argument. When they answer your fresh argument , you rush back to the initial one.

In the book of acts1 they asked Christ 6 So when they were assembled, they asked Him, Lord, is this the time when You will reestablish the kingdom and restore it to Israel?

The question was a legitimate question but Christ had other plans before that could happen which is the gospel of grace for the entire world to get saved.

Christ did not say no, it won't happen. He said to them, It is not for you to become acquainted with and know what time brings [the things and events of time and their definite periods] or fixed [c]years and seasons (their critical niche in time), which the Father has appointed (fixed and reserved) by His own choice and authority and personal power[/

Jesus indeed knew who had all the authority and who had exclusive knowledge of fixed dates and times,which Jesus himself did not know...........


Now may I take you back to mark 13:32


New International Version
(©2011)
"But about that day or hour no one
knows, not even the angels in
heaven, nor the Son, but only the
Father.

New Living Translation (©2007)
"However, no one knows the day or
hour when these things will happen,
not even the angels in heaven or
the Son himself. Only the Father
knows.

___________________________

E be like you wan take us play. Abi......

See Jesus declaring absolute ignorance of an information that only one person in the whole universe knows/knew......


You guys are a very big joke....

frosbel:

The Jews will spit on you for calling the Ancient of days a MAN, indeed they were expecting a messiah but he was to be of human origin , not some mythical half god half man pagan nonsense.

This is the reason why the bible says people like you prevent others from coming into the kingdom by making the word of GOD null and void with your man made traditions.

Jews, Muslims, atheists and a horde of others ,who have an interest in knowing the truth , are put off by your irrational, chaotic and mystic teachings , which have no bearing to the truth.

"The LORD swore to David a sure oath from which he will not turn back: “One of the sons of your body I will set on your throne." - [b]Psalm 132:11[/ b]

just as the jews picked up stones to stone Him Who they claim was making Himself, a Man, equal to God .

This is the reason why the bible says people like you prevent others from coming into the kingdom by making the word of GOD null and void with your man made traditions.

That statement you quote was directed at the pharisees, were they[pharasees] saying Jesus was God hence blocking people from coming to God... i dont think so

Dont worry, i will create another thread and post some startling hebrew rendering of the verses you people have promoted, which you claim does not speak about Jesus [Yeshau] as God... Stay tuned.

frosbel:


Second MAN was YHWH from heaven ?

Wow, this is blasphemy.

YHWH is a Spirit , period, Jesus is a MAN , period.

Stop this Paganism.

Bros plz can u tell us why christ is a man using bible verse. or is this what u feel because it support ur non trinitarian believe? a simple Jesus is a man according to this and that from the scripture will do

frosbel:

your fake lols will not deter us from pounding your pagan myths into the ground , until they are revealed for what they are, fables and myths.

Hmm... hope you wont point the Word as fables and myths....as athiest have been doing... hmmm

Mr anony:
It is interesting to notice that in 6 pages and counting, you are yet to tell us anything about the topic of your thread.

#FrosbelExposed

Mr anony:
Lol, this is very simple.
1. Can God humble Himself? Yes He can. Why?
1a. If He can't humble Himself then He is demanding from man something that is beyond His ability and therefore cannot be God.
1b. If He can humble Himself, then He can indeed take upon Himself the form of a man and to do that He'll have to let go of some of His God privileges.

2. Does God have infinite love? Yes He does. How?
2a. If God is monadic in nature, then before creation, there was no other person to love because love can only exist in a relationship between persons. It would only be possible for God to love after creation and hence God would have to learn to love and therefore cannot be said to be omniscient.
2b. If God is Trinity, then Love can easily exist eternally in the Godhead i.e. God is Love

Now if he second Person of the Trinity (the Son) gives up His God privileges and takes the form of flesh, it is perfectly easy to see how He (Christ) won't know what the Father knows while He remains in the flesh. However this doesn't contradict the fact that God knows all things.

The problem is that you conceive the Trinity as 3 Gods rather than 3 Persons of one God. Until you can understand that, you will find the scripture difficult. In fact it is impossible for salvation by grace through faith to happen if God is monadic in nature. The sacrifice of the life of a mere man simply cannot atone for sin

The bolded blew my mind,what a revelation !!!! God bless you abundantly sir!

Mr anony:
I have answered this. Any mistranslations that occur will usually be very minor as is normally expected any time one translates from one language to another. The only way to legitimately claim a mistranslation has occured is if you are fluent in the two languages


This is where you are wrong.

Let us examine scripture:

JESUS IN CONVERSATION WITH NICODEMUS.

Jesus answered him, "Are you the teacher of Israel and yet you do not understand these things? Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know, and bear witness to what we have seen, but you do not receive our testimony. If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you heavenly things? No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man. - John 3:10-13 (Emphasis on John 3:13)

---

JOHN THE BAPTIST TELLING HIS DISCIPLES ABOUT JESUS CHRIST.

And they came to John and said to him, "Rabbi, he who was with you across the Jordan, to whom you bore witness--look, he is baptizing, and all are going to him." John answered, "A person cannot receive even one thing unless it is given him from heaven. You yourselves bear me witness, that I said, 'I am not the Christ, but I have been sent before him.' The one who has the bride is the bridegroom. The friend of the bridegroom, who stands and hears him, rejoices greatly at the bridegroom's voice. Therefore this joy of mine is now complete. He must increase, but I must decrease." He who comes from above is above all. He who is of the earth belongs to the earth and speaks in an earthly way. He who comes from heaven is above all. He bears witness to what he has seen and heard, yet no one receives his testimony. Whoever receives his testimony sets his seal to this, that God is true. For he whom God has sent utters the words of God, for he gives the Spirit without measure. The Father loves the Son and has given all things into his hand. Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him. - John 3:26-36 (Emphasis on verses 31 and 32)

---

JESUS CHRIST SPEAKING TO THE JEWS.
So they said to him, "Then what sign do you do, that we may see and believe you? What work do you perform? Our fathers ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written, 'He gave them bread from heaven to eat.'" Jesus then said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, it was not Moses who gave you the bread from heaven, but my Father gives you the true bread from heaven.
For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world." They said to him, "Sir, give us this bread always." Jesus said to them, "I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst. But I said to you that you have seen me and yet do not believe.
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day."
So the Jews grumbled about him, because he said, "I am the bread that came down from heaven." They said, "Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How does he now say, 'I have come down from heaven'?"
Jesus answered them, "Do not grumble among yourselves. No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day. It is written in the Prophets, 'And they will all be taught by God.' Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me-- not that anyone has seen the Father except he who is from God; he has seen the Father.
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life. I am the bread of life. Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died. This is the bread that comes down from heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die. I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. And the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh."
The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, "How can this man give us his flesh to eat?"
So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him. As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so whoever feeds on me, he also will live because of me.
This is the bread that came down from heaven, not like the bread the fathers ate and died. Whoever feeds on this bread will live forever." Jesus said these things in the synagogue, as he taught at Capernaum.
When many of his disciples heard it, they said, "This is a hard saying; who can listen to it?"
But Jesus, knowing in himself that his disciples were grumbling about this, said to them, "Do you take offense at this? Then what if you were to see the Son of Man ascending to where he was before? It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.
But there are some of you who do not believe." (For Jesus knew from the beginning who those were who did not believe, and who it was who would betray him.) And he said, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father." After this many of his disciples turned back and no longer walked with him. - John 6:30-66 (Emphasis on verses 38, 41, 42, 46, and 62)

---

Notice that I have taken the pains to quote those verses in their context so that you don't miss exactly what the bible is saying



I suppose you don't think the whole bible is twisted because you have claimed to stand by what it says. Now I'll ask: What method do you use to tell the difference between the "twisted" parts and the non-twisted parts of the bible?

ARE u sure this guy is not a Muslim masquerading as a Christian?