Bidam: But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

here we go again, the get out clause of gibberish theology.

ijawkid:


Your comment is off the hook my bro...

You have already refuted God as one God......

You just refuted God as not monadic...

Your teachn is what the scriptures describes as philosophies of men.......


And please did the holy spirit know the day and hour at that point Jesus was playing ignorant??.......

We cannot proceed if you cannot answer a simple question

frosbel:

here we go again, the get out clause of gibberish theology.

You are just like the self-righteous pharisee of Jesus era.

frosbel:

here we go again, the get out clause of gibberish theology.

Mr Man, I am still awaiting your response to this:
https://www.nairaland.com/1321883/did-jesus-preexist-birth-honeychild/6#16527706

Please let us focus on the topic of your thread.

frosbel:

The Jews will spit on you for calling the Ancient of days a MAN, indeed they were expecting a messiah but he was to be of human origin , not some mythical half god half man pagan nonsense.

This is the reason why the bible says people like you prevent others from coming into the kingdom by making the word of GOD null and void with your man made traditions.

Jews, Muslims, atheists and a horde of others ,who have an interest in knowing the truth , are put off by your irrational, chaotic and mystic teachings , which have no bearing to the truth.

"The LORD swore to David a sure oath from which he will not turn back: “One of the sons of your body I will set on your throne." - Psalm 132:11

Rabbi frobel, the teaching of Jesus shows his pre-existing or else you will call Jesus or his apostle a liar.

This was what my lord told the people who doubt his pre- existing like you

'41 while the pharisees were gathered to gether Jesus asked them,

42 saying, what think ye of Christ? Whose son is he? They say unto him, the son of David.

43 He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him lord,saying

44 the lord said unto my lord, sit thou on my right hand, till i make thine enemies thy footstool?

45 if David then call him lord, how is he his son? ( Matthew 22:41-45 )

Also in the book of John ,Jesus made another statement that beyond man's knowledges. Let read

52 Then said the Jew unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets: and thou sayest, if a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.

53 Art thou greater than our father Abraham which is dead? And the prophet are dead: whom makest thou thyself?

54 Jesus answered , if i honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:

55 yet ye have not known him but i know him and if i should say i know him not, i shall be a liar like unto you: but i know him, and keep his saying.

56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day and he saw it, and was glad

57 then said the Jews unto, thou art not yet fifty years old and art thou seen Abraham?

58 Jesus said unto them, verily, verily, i say unto you, before Abraham was, iam

59 then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hide himself, and went out of temple, going through the mist of them, and so passed by. ( John 8:52-59 )

please rabbi frobel explaine paragraph 45,57,58 above to see if you know what you are saying.

hisblud:

Question what did Jesus Christ become after forfeiting the form of God according to Philippians 2?

ijawkid, please kindly answer this question?

Ayomivic:

Rabbi frobel, the teaching of Jesus shows his pre-existing or else you will call Jesus or his apostle a liar.

This was what my lord told the people who doubt his pre- existing like you

'41 while the pharisees were gathered to gether Jesus asked them,

42 saying, what think ye of Christ? Whose son is he? They say unto him, the son of David.

43 He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him lord,saying

44 the lord said unto my lord, sit thou on my right hand, till i make thine enemies thy footstool?

45 if David then call him lord, how is he his son? ( Matthew 22:41-45 )

Also in the book of John ,Jesus made another statement that beyond man's knowledges. Let read

52 Then said the Jew unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets: and thou sayest, if a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.

53 Art thou greater than our father Abraham which is dead? And the prophet are dead: whom makest thou thyself?

54 Jesus answered , if i honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:

55 yet ye have not known him but i know him and if i should say i know him not, i shall be a liar like unto you: but i know him, and keep his saying.

56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day and he saw it, and was glad

57 then said the Jews unto, thou art not yet fifty years old and art thou seen Abraham?

58 Jesus said unto them, verily, verily, i say unto you, before Abraham was, iam

59 then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hide himself, and went out of temple, going through the mist of them, and so passed by. ( John 8:52-59 )

please rabbi frobel explaine paragraph 45,57,58 above to see if you know what you are saying.

2 ways to look at it :


1. Father speaking through Jesus.

"For I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me to say all that I have spoken." - John 12:49


2. Jesus before Abraham in pre-eminence and superiority. Before Abraham , God had always had the plan of the Messiah for mankind.

"And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy." - Colossians 1:18

Frank4YAHWEH:
'
Yes, I believe that all translations have been twisted, so we have nothing to talk about.

"For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth." (1 Timothy 2:3-4).

^
it is really a pity that that ^ plans of Yahweh is futile, curtsey of you Frank4YAHWE.

Of what use is that ^ statement in scripture then if translation has rendered "all" the plans of Yahweh invalid in all translations !

No thanks to you.

Mr anony:
Lol, sometimes I really feel sorry for you lot and all the scripture you have to diligently deny in order to keep your false doctrine afloat.

There are certain translation that are objectionable.

Are you of the opinion that that Hisblud translation that affixed the TETRAGRAMATON there as being the one that came down from heaven is right ?

truthislight:

There are certain translation that are objectionable.

Are you of the opinion that that Hisblud translation that affixed the TETRAGRAMATON there as being the one that came down from heaven is right ?

New World Translation by Jehovah Witness is that translation.

Mr anony:
First question you need to answer: Do you believe that God is omniscient? Yes or no.

The reason I'm asking the above is because if yes then we can proceed, if no then you would have no basis to argue about what the Son didn't know.


P/s: I am sure frosbel is happy to have his thread derailed because it allows him to escape without answering the questions posed to him.

Of what use is the bible to you since you seem more at home with philosophy ?

Between the bible and your philosophy which should we take home that will guarantee us life ?

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. " (Matthew 7:21).

^

take note, your philosophy is a sign of danger.

The bible is the express "will" of God.

truthislight:
The bible is the express "will" of God.

Good one truthislight then this is the will of God -

47 The first man was out of earth, earthy.The second Man was the Master YAHWEH out of Heaven.
(Gen. 2:7)Hebraic roots bible with study notes

Bidam: But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

What is "spiritually discerned" about this philosophy that Annony is wishing out here ?

I fear for you people !
Smh.

Mr anony:
This just shows your ignorance of God's nature

ignorance of which God ?

Trinity ? Yes.

Yahweh ? No.

^^^
It will be a reproach to quote the post of certain people on this read.

@HISBLUD.....



Oboy it seems the HRV is rendering the verses you have put up with respect to to these words found in the scripture...
____________________________
Exodus 23:20-21

20 “See, I am sending an angel ahead of you to
guard you along the way and to bring you to the
place I have prepared. 21 Pay attention to him
and listen to what he says. Do not rebel
against him; he will not forgive your rebellion,
since my Name is in him.
__________________________


______________________________
Also john 5:37-43

37 And
the Father who sent me has himself testified
concerning me. You have never heard his voice
nor seen his form, 38 nor does his word dwell
in you, for you do not believe the one he sent.
39 You study[c] the Scriptures diligently
because you think that in them you have
eternal life. These are the very Scriptures
that testify about me, 40 yet you refuse to
come to me to have life.
41 “I do not accept glory from human beings,
42 but I know you. I know that you do not have
the love of God in your hearts. 43 I have come
in my Father’s name, and you do not accept me;
but if someone else comes in his own name, you
will accept him. _
___________________________

If Jesus came in his Fathers name/the Fathers name(YHWH) is in Yeshua then I have no problem with the rendering you're forwarding..

By virtue of the above concrete verses from the scriptures I am not too worried of the HRV rendering........

But you're gonna be the one to definitly have problems with the scriptures from genesis to revelation....

YHWH remains one YHWH who decides in whom he would put his name in or who he appoints to act in his name.....


......


Because as we've seen from the for-going verses Yeshua isn't YHWH himself.....

Reasons...

1....Yeshua was created by YHWH...Yeshua had a beginning....which collapses your whole hopes of Yehsua been YHWH and also your hold on the trinity,...




See below...
Proverbs 8:22

NET Bible (©2006)
The LORD created me as the
beginning of his works, before his
deeds of long ago.

GNT

22 "The Lord(YHWH) created me first of all, the
first of his works, long ago. 23 I was made in
the very beginning, at the first, before the
world began.

Jesus is the beginning of Gods creation......

GBAM!!!!!!!


2..YHWH does not have a Father and a GOD over HIM...

3...YHWH has never been seen by any man .....I repeat no one has seen YHWH.....even YEshua confirmed it.....

4..YHWH does not die,cannot die,and has never died before(that would mean the end of me been a christian if my GOD can die)...

5..YHWH is not under the authority of anyone....

6...YHWH does not and has never cried to anyone for help......

Should I go on??.....




If it is your plan to use the HRV to delude yourself you are on a very log thing........



You freaking polytheist....


....

ijawkid: @HISBLUD.....
..



You freaking polytheist....


....

Sounds harsh but it is the truth, they believe in 3 gods not ONE.

ijawkid: @HISBLUD.....



Oboy it seems the HRV is rendering the verses you have put up with respect to to these words found in the scripture...
____________________________
Exodus 23:20-21

20 “See, I am sending an angel ahead of you to
guard you along the way and to bring you to the
place I have prepared. 21 Pay attention to him
and listen to what he says. Do not rebel
against him; he will not forgive your rebellion,
since my Name is in him.
__________________________


______________________________
Also john 5:37-43

37 And
the Father who sent me has himself testified
concerning me. You have never heard his voice
nor seen his form, 38 nor does his word dwell
in you, for you do not believe the one he sent.
39 You study[c] the Scriptures diligently
because you think that in them you have
eternal life. These are the very Scriptures
that testify about me, 40 yet you refuse to
come to me to have life.
41 “I do not accept glory from human beings,
42 but I know you. I know that you do not have
the love of God in your hearts. 43 I have come
in my Father’s name, and you do not accept me;
but if someone else comes in his own name, you
will accept him. _
___________________________

If Jesus came in his Fathers name/the Fathers name(YHWH) is in Yeshua then I have no problem with the rendering you're forwarding..

By virtue of the above concrete verses from the scriptures I am not too worried of the HRV rendering........

But you're gonna be the one to definitly have problems with the scriptures from genesis to revelation....

YHWH remains one YHWH who decides in whom he would put his name in or who he appoints to act in his name.....


......


Because as we've seen from the for-going verses Yeshua isn't YHWH himself.....

Reasons...

1....Yeshua was created by YHWH...Yeshua had a beginning....which collapses your whole hopes of Yehsua been YHWH and also your hold on the trinity,...




See below...
Proverbs 8:22

NET Bible (©2006)
The LORD created me as the
beginning of his works, before his
deeds of long ago.

GNT

22 "The Lord(YHWH) created me first of all, the
first of his works, long ago. 23 I was made in
the very beginning, at the first, before the
world began.

Jesus is the beginning of Gods creation......

GBAM!!!!!!!


2..YHWH does not have a Father and a GOD over HIM...

3...YHWH has never been seen by any man .....I repeat no one has seen YHWH.....even YEshua confirmed it.....

4..YHWH does not die,cannot die,and has never died before(that would mean the end of me been a christian if my GOD can die)...

5..YHWH is not under the authority of anyone....

6...YHWH does not and has never cried to anyone for help......

Should I go on??.....




If it is your plan to use the HRV to delude yourself you are on a very log thing........



You freaking polytheist....


....

ijawkid, your still have a question to answer. https://www.nairaland.com/1341369/anti-trinitarian-please-kindly-frosbel-answer#16539343

frosbel:

Sounds harsh but it is the truth, they believe in 3 gods not ONE.

Jesus is God. Can you help ijawkid over here https://www.nairaland.com/1341369/anti-trinitarian-please-kindly-frosbel-answer#16539343

@ijawkid
Are you claiming that the HRV is a wrong rendering of the hebrew/aramaic scripture? Oh is it the New World Translation that is the actual rendering?

@ijawkid
Are you insinuating that Yashua is the angel in exodus because the name of YHWH is on him?

@ijawkid

But you're gonna be the one to definitly have problems with thescriptures from genesis to revelation....

lol i invited you to answer a question on the other thread and you've been silent like frosbel. SMH. In any case, bring any verse from genesis to revelation that you think with the HRV rendering i will have problem on the issue of His pre-existence.

2..YHWH does not have a Father and a GOD over HIM...
3...YHWH has never been seen byany man .....I repeat no one has seen YHWH.....even YEshua confirmed it.....
4..YHWH does not die,cannot die,and has never died before(that would mean the endof me been a christian if my GODcan die)...
5..YHWH is not under the authority of anyone....
6...YHWH does not and has nevercried to anyone for help......

sorry am taking them because am on phone. Are u sure of all you wrote up there?

hisblud: sorry am taking them because am on phone. Are u sure of all you wrote up there?

Sounds sure to me in accordance with what is taught in Scripture! Hisbud is just making it clear and sure in accordance with what is taught in Scripture how foolish the doctrine that you are promoting is.

Frank4YAHWEH:

Sounds sure to me in accordance with what is taught in Scripture! Hisbud is just making it clear and sure in accordance with what is taught in Scripture how foolish the doctrine that you are promoting is.

hi are you ijawkid or you wish to answer the question for him?

hisblud: hi are you ijawkid or you wish to answer the question for him?

I can see you are disturbing again. Did you believe the bible meaning of Godhead i showed you on your thread before you disappeared and avoided it?

Boomark:


I can see you are disturbing again. Did you believe the bible meaning of Godhead i showed you on your thread before you disappeared and avoided it?

can you comment here to help frosbel, ijawkid... https://www.nairaland.com/1341369/anti-trinitarian-please-kindly-frosbel-answer#16524120

Mr anony:
WOOOOOW! This is BEAUTIFULL! (with double L for emphasis)

Yeah. Besides, Enigma once pointed out that the NT used Kyrios for YHWH in the original tongue. That's the term translated Lord, I understand.

Mr anony:
I have answered this. Any mistranslations that occur will usually be very minor as is normally expected any time one translates from one language to another. The only way to legitimately claim a mistranslation has occured is if you are fluent in the two languages


This is where you are wrong.

Let us examine scripture:

JESUS IN CONVERSATION WITH NICODEMUS.

Jesus answered him, "Are you the teacher of Israel and yet you do not understand these things? Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know, and bear witness to what we have seen, but you do not receive our testimony. If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you heavenly things? No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man. - John 3:10-13 (Emphasis on John 3:13)

---

JOHN THE BAPTIST TELLING HIS DISCIPLES ABOUT JESUS CHRIST.

And they came to John and said to him, "Rabbi, he who was with you across the Jordan, to whom you bore witness--look, he is baptizing, and all are going to him." John answered, "A person cannot receive even one thing unless it is given him from heaven. You yourselves bear me witness, that I said, 'I am not the Christ, but I have been sent before him.' The one who has the bride is the bridegroom. The friend of the bridegroom, who stands and hears him, rejoices greatly at the bridegroom's voice. Therefore this joy of mine is now complete. He must increase, but I must decrease." He who comes from above is above all. He who is of the earth belongs to the earth and speaks in an earthly way. He who comes from heaven is above all. He bears witness to what he has seen and heard, yet no one receives his testimony. Whoever receives his testimony sets his seal to this, that God is true. For he whom God has sent utters the words of God, for he gives the Spirit without measure. The Father loves the Son and has given all things into his hand. Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him. - John 3:26-36 (Emphasis on verses 31 and 32)

---

JESUS CHRIST SPEAKING TO THE JEWS.
So they said to him, "Then what sign do you do, that we may see and believe you? What work do you perform? Our fathers ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written, 'He gave them bread from heaven to eat.'" Jesus then said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, it was not Moses who gave you the bread from heaven, but my Father gives you the true bread from heaven.
For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world." They said to him, "Sir, give us this bread always." Jesus said to them, "I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst. But I said to you that you have seen me and yet do not believe.
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day."
So the Jews grumbled about him, because he said, "I am the bread that came down from heaven." They said, "Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How does he now say, 'I have come down from heaven'?"
Jesus answered them, "Do not grumble among yourselves. No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day. It is written in the Prophets, 'And they will all be taught by God.' Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me-- not that anyone has seen the Father except he who is from God; he has seen the Father.
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life. I am the bread of life. Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died. This is the bread that comes down from heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die. I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. And the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh."
The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, "How can this man give us his flesh to eat?"
So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him. As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so whoever feeds on me, he also will live because of me.
This is the bread that came down from heaven, not like the bread the fathers ate and died. Whoever feeds on this bread will live forever." Jesus said these things in the synagogue, as he taught at Capernaum.
When many of his disciples heard it, they said, "This is a hard saying; who can listen to it?"
But Jesus, knowing in himself that his disciples were grumbling about this, said to them, "Do you take offense at this? Then what if you were to see the Son of Man ascending to where he was before? It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.
But there are some of you who do not believe." (For Jesus knew from the beginning who those were who did not believe, and who it was who would betray him.) And he said, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father." After this many of his disciples turned back and no longer walked with him. - John 6:30-66 (Emphasis on verses 38, 41, 42, 46, and 62)

---

Notice that I have taken the pains to quote those verses in their context so that you don't miss exactly what the bible is saying



I suppose you don't think the whole bible is twisted because you have claimed to stand by what it says. Now I'll ask: What method do you use to tell the difference between the "twisted" parts and the non-twisted parts of the bible?

One does not have to be fluent in "the two languages" to legitimately claim a mistranslation has occured.

As I have made known in previous posts, Yahshua did not LITERALLY "come down from heaven":
http://frank4yahweh.xanga.com/708052764/yahshua-came-down-from-heaven

When Yahshua parabolically discribed himself as the "bread from heaven" he was speaking of his being the spokesman of his and our Father Yahweh's word in this last time period, not that he pre-existed his birth. Yahshua was not the spokesman of his and our Father Yahweh's word until long after his birth. The prophets of old were the spokesmen of Father Yahweh's word before Yahshua came into existence as Hebrews 1:1-2 makes perfectly clear.

Note that my statement still stands true that nowhere in Scripture is it ever said "Jesus pre-exited his birth." This is a prime example of one twisting Scripture in that they are saying Scripture says something that it plainly does not.

hisblud: hi are you ijawkid or you wish to answer the question for him?

My mistake! That was ijawkid that I was agreeing with, not you.

Micah 5:2

King James Version (KJV)


2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.


The Biblical Verse refers to Jesus Christ and further proves that He has always been in existence prior to coming to earth as a human to die for our sins.

Ndipe:
Micah 5:2

King James Version (KJV)


2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.


The Biblical Verse refers to Jesus Christ and further proves that He has always been in existence prior to coming to earth as a human to die for our sins.

how come the old testament is silent on Jesus except in Prophecy ?

Also if Jesus pre-existed, and according to your logic there is ONE GOD but Three persons, how come there is only ONE Throne in Heaven with the one sitted on it referred to as the ancient of days, why should there not be 3 thrones for 3 persons ?