He is responsible for evil.

No, I think you are the one that created evil. Believe it or not, it is the truth.

If God didn't want evil to exist in the entire universe, would it exist?

Seun, perhaps God created evil as a check and balances over what He created.

Twins, do you double speak or how do you justify your first position above unless you've changed your assertion.

God created evil as a check and balances

So God created war, earthquakes, the Asian Tsunami as 'checks and balances' against the innocent men, women, children and babies that have died horrible deaths or been maimed for life through them? Wouldn't an all-knowing God have been able to provide 'checks and balances' in a more humane manner?

And what do you mean by "checks and balances" anyway? Couldn't a perfect God have created perfection with no need for any evil 'checks and balances'? If he needed evil 'checks and balances', then he's not all-powerful. if he didn't really need evil but chose to create it, then he's actually being wicked. Assuming he exists.

See why I said you created evil K2, I guess your evil is already affecting me.

Seun, things cannot be smooth in every sense of it. No wonder there are some people that are rich while some are poor. Have you noticed that, a rich man can never existed without the existence of a poor man. So is your profession as an example, would it be right if we agree that we should all be a webmaster, so where and how would you sell your business? There is bound to be check and balances to make things works. Besides, we all have decided our faith even before we become a being. The earthquake, the tsunami are natural occurences, God has always been there for everyone against all this natural occurences, it is just that we are too blind to notice his grace over us. If God is evil as you people want to claim, how come the world is still intact or is it our perfections that is sustaining us? No matter how you tried to prevent viruses from your system, one way or the other they will still come in another mode. God is not evil, most times the seeming evil to us, is a blessing in disguise, it is just that we are too myopic to notice. God is God.

are you trying to say that there are some things that God cannot do? That God cannot create a world without evil? If so, then he is a liar because he claims that there's nothing he cannot do.

Being in any religion that believes in God means accepting God as being Omniscient and Omnipresent. Therefore God is responsible for all negative things that humans can't cause (natural disasters and tectonic activity.)

God created Evil (come on we all know it.)

Humans use the things that God created such as evil as they see fit. I don't think it's right but those are the facts.

See life as a soap opera written by God which we act out and improv at times.

See life as a soap opera written by God which we act out and improve at times.

if life is an imperfect soap opera, then it must have been written by an imperfect scriptwriter i.e. God?

God is proof that there is no perfection.

My quote should read "improv" as in improvisation - not improve. Godd write dramtic storylines and we live out (improv) the large parts in between.

The term "evil" is relative, so it depends on what u mean by evil. I think of evil as sin i.e. going against God (since He is Good).

This is my opinion:

God created everything and everyone good. He didn't want His associates to be zombies; He wanted them to love Him from their hearts not because He forced them to. So He gave them freewill - they could choose to love Him or not. Everything was good till Lucifer began to want to be God. This desire degenerated to hatred for God, and overtook him so much that he rebelled against God. This is where evil came, when Lucifer began to envy and/or hate God. God wanted the angels to have the right to worship Him or not. He didn't create evil, everything was good then. However, when Satan wanted to overthrow Him, evil was born. So I believe satan is the father of all evil.

I remember vaguely something I read about earthquakes, volcanoes etc.: Satan is the prince of this world for now. Till He returns for His millenial reign, God isn't the one in charge. Satan is in charge because men chose him over God to rule over them. Satan has no power, as God stripped him of that, but he manipulates men and uses their power against them. He can't force men, he can only manipulate, trick and deceive. That's how he managed to get control over the world. However, any man that accepts Jesus comes out of satan's domain, and God can act on such a man's behalf. Such a man has power over the forces of evil. Even then, he would pass through problems because he is living in a world that hates God, whom he has chosen to follow. He must pass through persecution, and problems. That is a sign that he truly loves God. The collective power/prayer of all such ppl i.e. The Church, restrains the devil from wreaking as much havoc as he would have loved to. We have the backing of heaven and satan respects that. During the tribulation, when the Church would have been taken away, the devil would have a free ride with humans and he would cause a lot of troubles then.

Dear GL,
   
I must confess that I enjoy your posts on issues of religion,but the origin of Evil can not be simply explained away by blaming Mr Lucifer.

CHRISTIAN theology states that evil came into the world through the sin of the first man's eating of the tree of forbidden fruit. All men sinned in Adam; because of Adam's sin, every other being is and has been a sinner. Strangely enough this first man was made by a Superior Being in His own image, or, in other words, perfect; yet, he was not able to restrain himself from doing those things which he had been forbidden to do. In the very first being created in the image of the "Supreme," there was a tendency to do wrong!

There are two kinds of re-actions produced from acts: those that are good or beneficent; those that are evil or maleficent. The whole responsibility of every action rests upon each and every being. So, if any being finds himself in any given state, good or bad, it is because of his thoughts, words and deeds -- his own, and those of nobody else. We get some good and we get some evil, all of our own reaping; but all the time, every single moment of our existence, we have the power of choice in the direction of good or evil.

If indeed God created the universe as the bible states,then Evil must come from God and his arch rival Lucifer

By the way,ever thought of starting your own church?

God wanted beigns to worship him in spirit and in truth out of their own volition not compulsion like robots. He decided to create it that way cos it would give him pleasure. The fact that he created A doesnt mean he cant create B. Its a priority based decision.

Now as regards evil and good. The absense of good is what we term evil. You dont need to create both.

Evil is not the absence of good. Evil is:
1. The quality of being morally bad or wrong; wickedness.
2. That which causes harm, misfortune, or destruction: a leader's power to do both good and evil.
3. An evil force, power, or personification.
4. Something that is a cause or source of suffering, injury, or destruction: the social evils of poverty and injustice.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/evil

layi: God wanted beigns to worship him in spirit and in truth out of their own volition not compulsion like robots. He decided to create it that way because it would give him pleasure.

If an imperfect parent can motivate her child, who is not a robot, to go along the right path, why not God? The all-knowing God who 'directs the heart of kings', and understands the intricate details psychology of men he created, should be able to motivate/inspire all human beings and angels to serve him willingly.

His decision not to do so indicates that either:
1) God is wicked: he takes pleasure in the suffering of his creations on earth and in hell.
2) Or He simply does not exist and that's all there is to it!

Seun:

His decision not to do so indicates that either:
1) God is wicked: he takes pleasure in the suffering of his creations on earth and in hell.
2) Or He simply does not exist and that's all there is to it!

*shakes head* I won't call you names so that you won't say I'm condemning you. *shakes head again* The reasoning behind God's existence is certainly beyond the scope of some men.

Seun, if you have the time, can you read this link, and tell me what you think. At least that is another proof that God do exist and all this arguments about Evil. http://www.bowness.demon.co.uk/brain.htm

Evil is not the absence of good.  

LOL
What is evil?
I maintain that "Evil is nonexistent; it is the absence of good." Ontologists will tell you We know evil because we knew good.
The intellectual realities, such as all the qualities and admirable perfections of man, are purely good, and exist.  Evil is simply their nonexistence.  So ignorance is the want of knowledge; error is the want of guidance; forgetfulness is the want of memory; stupidity is the want of good sense.  All these things have no real existence.
In the same way, the sensible realities are absolutely good, and evil is due to their nonexistence - that is to say, blindness is the want of sight, deafness is the want of hearing, poverty is the want of wealth, illness is the want of health, death is the want of life, and weakness is the want of strength.

Moreover Evil is Relative. Things can be evil in relation to one another but not evil in themselves. For example, from the beginning of his life you can see in a nursing child the signs of greed, of anger and of temper.  Then, it may be said, good and evil are innate in the reality of man, and this is contrary to the pure goodness of nature and creation.  The answer to this is that greed, which is to ask for something more, is a praiseworthy quality provided that it is used suitably.  So if a man is greedy to acquire science and knowledge, or to become compassionate, generous and just, it is most praiseworthy.  If he exercises his anger and wrath against the bloodthirsty tyrants who are like ferocious beasts, it is very praiseworthy; but if he does not use these qualities in a right way, they are blameworthy.

If an imperfect parent can motivate her child, who is not a robot, to go along the right path, why not God?  The all-knowing God who 'directs the heart of kings', and understands the intricate details psychology of men he created, should be able to motivate/inspire all human beings and angels to serve him willingly.

His decision not to do so indicates that either:
1) God is wicked: he takes pleasure in the suffering of his creations on earth and in hell.
2) Or He simply does not exist and that's all there is to it!

What happened to conscience? What happened to cause and effect? What happened to morality? How are  you so sure GOD never motivates or inspire humans. If you opt for the parent-chil analogy then i put it to you that no matter how well u train/motivate your child, what he becomes in life only lies solely within his jurisdiction. Its his choice. Inspiration is just a motivation for action not action in itself.

An homosexual will blame GOD for creating homosexuals if its evil rather than ask himself "why did god creat the vagina". Evil is our choice. GOd didnt create it. Its a result of our free moral being. We are not robots. We are gods. We have a choice

All things GOD created is good, evil is not a thing. Its absence of the real thing just like darkness is absence of light.

Ok Mr. Layi.  I assume you are a Christian too. Evil is absence of good blah blah blah. Please respond to the passages below.

"See, I have set before you this day life and good, and death and evil. Deuteronomy 30:15.

"For the Lord had ordained to defeat the good counsel of Ahithophel, so that the Lord might bring evil upon Absalom."
2 Samuel 17:14

Then Moses turned again to the Lord and said, O Lord, why have You dealt evil to this people? Why did You ever send me? Exodus 5:22

And God sent an evil spirit between Abimelech and the men of Shechem, and the men of Shechem dealt treacherously with Abimelech, Judges 9:23

But the Spirit of the Lord departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the Lord tormented and troubled him. I Sam 16:14, 

Lamentations 3: Vs 37Who is he who speaks and it comes to pass, if the Lord has not authorized and commanded it? Vs38, Is it not out of the mouth of the Most High that evil and good both proceed [adversity and prosperity, physical evil or misfortune and physical good or happiness]?

I maintain that "Evil is nonexistent; it is the absence of good."

evil is not a thing. Its absence of the real thing just like darkness is absence of light.

Someone else will say that "good does not exist, it is the absence of evil", which is also meaningless nonsense. Our argument is simple and easy to understand if you speak English. Stop trying to obscure it.

All things GOD created is good

Satan is good. War is good. Earthquakes are good. September 11 was good. Rage, envy, hatred are all good. Psychopaths are good. Military rule and tyrants too. Murder is good; genocide even better. Ok, I hear you!

Someone else will say that "good does not exist, it is the absence of evil", which is also meaningless nonsense.   Our argument is simple and easy to understand if you speak English.  Stop trying to obscure it.

As long as it remains meaninless, you'll never understand it. If its a question of simple english, then the word existence and non-existence are english as well. Half knowledge is really dangerous. You'll pride in ignorance and thats folly in itself. You don't need to get touchy here.  Beat down points with more points. A study of onthology would explain reality and existence to you. Or better still go take basic philosophy courses. Good preceeds evil. Simple! My dear,If u can't grasp it, don't thrash it.

Satan is good. War is good. Earthquakes are good. September 11 was good. Rage, envy, hatred are all good.  Psychopaths are good. Military rule and tyrants too. Murder is good; genocide even better. Ok, I hear you!

GOD created none of these. He made lucifer not satan (he chose to become satan). Man initiates wars. God was not the sucide bomber at 911. GOD does not envy or hate. GOD did not insist for humans to remain in earthquake prone regions.

Answering k2 post will definitely make us go off topic. A new thread would be better.  Anyway, Its 1 of the reasons why non christains believe that the bible is controversial but indeed it is not.
Men of GOD wrote the old testament according to their revelation.  They were limited in their understanding. Thats paved the need for the new testament. We learn from the old but live in the new. The holy spirit has revealed GOD to us. GOD has no evil in him. The old testament sages/prophest too didnt the full revelation of GOD just like a lot of us today. I can't talk about this at lenght. Its for the spiritually minded. Even scriptures admonishes christains to study indepth so no one is excused for half baked knowledge of the holy bible.

K2, i doubt if u can give me a new testament scripture directly linking God with evil.

one thing i have learnt from discussing about some uncertainty on God is to fold my arms and keep my mouth shut while i stomach everything i believe in.
since i cant fight for him, he is able to do so himself. i tell people who my God is, if they dont believe, or if they r critical, i will just fold my arms and keep silent. that is the best approach.

twinstaiye:

Seun, if you have the time, can you read this link, and tell me what you think. At least that is another proof that God do exist and all this arguments about Evil. http://www.bowness.demon.co.uk/brain.htm

Did you go through the whole of that link at all yourself? The whole thing there is to prove that God does not exist!

God is good
God is unchangeable
Thus it follows that God has always been good.

In order for God to have always been good, evil must necessarily as a concept have always existed also.If God did not create evil where did it come from?Lets not forget that the Lucifer The God Of Evil was himself created by God and of course God being all knowing,all seeing must have know that the day he created Lucifer he created an Evil Rival.

You can not divorce God from the existence of Evil

From http://www.bowness.demon.co.uk/brain.htm

"But back to the problem of evil," said the professor. "You stated that evil is the absence of good. How does that solve the problem of evil?"

The student said lifelessly: "If evil is the absence of good, then god did not create evil." It was evident that this was something the student had learned by rote and had often repeated.

The professor shrugged his shoulders. "Okay, let's suppose for the moment that this is true. This still does not explain evil. If a tidal wave wipes out a whole town, and 100,000 people die, is that evil?"

"There is the absence of good," said the student.

"But so what? The problem is why god did not prevent the disaster. If god is all-powerful he can prevent it, and if he is all-knowing he knows that it is about to happen. So whether he created the tidal wave is not relevant. What we want to know is why he did not do anything to stop it."

The student looked confused. "But why should he prevent it? It's not his fault."

"If a human being had the power to prevent a tidal wave wiping out a town, and this person intentionally failed to stop it, we would not say that the person is good. Even if the person said, 'It's not my fault,' we would be appalled that someone could stand by and do nothing as thousands die. So if god does not prevent natural disasters, and he is able to do so, we should not say that god is good by the same reasoning. In fact, we would probably say that god is evil."

The Christian student thought for a moment. "I guess I'd have to agree."

"So redefining evil as the absence of good does nothing to solve the problem of evil," said the professor. "At best it shows that god did not create it, but this does not explain why god does not prevent it."

The Christian student shook a finger at the professor. "But that's according to our human standards. What if god has a higher morality? We can't judge him by our standards."

The professor laughed. "Then you just lost your case. If you admit that god does not fit our definition of good, then we should not call him good. Case closed."

"I don't understand," said the student, wrinkling his brow.

"If I go outside and see a vehicle with four tires, a metal body, a steering wheel, a motor and so on, and it fits the definition of a car, is it a car?" "Of course it is," said the Christian student. "That's what a car is."

"But what if someone says that on some other definition it could be considered an airplane. Does that mean it's not a car?"

"No," said the student. "It still fits the definition of a car. That's what we mean by saying that it's a car. It doesn't fit the definition of an airplane, so we shouldn't call it that."

"Exactly," said the professor. "If it fits the definition, then that's what it is. If god fits the definition of good, then he is good. If he does not, then he is not. If you admit that he does not fit our definition of good, then he is not good. It does no good to say that he could be 'good' in some other definition. If we want to know whether he is good by our definition, you have answered that question. God is not good."

"I don't believe it!" said the Christian student. "A few minutes ago I would have laughed at the suggestion that god is not good, but now I actually agree. God doesn't fit the definition of good, so he's not good."

"There you go," said the professor.

"But wait a minute," said the student. "God could still be good in some other definition even if we don't call him good. Despite what we think, god could still have his own morality that says he's good. Even if we couldn't call him good, that doesn't mean that he isn't good on some definition. He could have his own definition anyway."

"Oh, you would not want to push the view that god might be good in some other definition," said the professor.

"Why not?" "Well, if he has definitions of things that are radically different from our own, he might have a different definition of lots of other things. He might have his own definitions of such things as eternal reward, or eternal life. Your supposed eternal life in heaven might just be a year, or it could be a thousand years of torture. God could just say he has a definition of reward that includes excruciating torture as part of the definition."

"That's right!" said the Christian, jumping up. His eyes were wide open. "If god can redefine any word, then anything goes. God could send all believers to what we call hell and say that it is heaven. He could give us ten days in heaven and say that that's his definition of eternity!"

"Now you're thinking!" said the professor, pointing a finger at the student. "This is what a philosophy class is supposed to do for students."

The Christian student continued. "God could promise us eternal life and then not give it to us and say that's his definition of keeping a promise!"

"Yes, yes," said the professor.
-----
We win!

hahah no response from those shouting GOD IS GOOD?

When it comes to bullshit, big-time, major league bullshit, you have to stand in awe of the all-time champion of false promises and exaggerated claims, religion. No contest. Religion.

Religion easily has the greatest bullshit story ever told. Think about it. Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time!
 
But He loves you. He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He's all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can't handle money and can never prevent evil deeds!

Religion takes in billions of dollars a year, they pay no taxes, and they always need a little more. Now, you talk about a good bullshit story. Holy Shit!

300,000 people die in the Tsunami. Was that an evil act by Satan or just nature taking its cause?

If the devil did cause the tsunami then why did God not step in and protect those people? Maybe he has no power against the devil?

Let me tell you why he did not step in. He can not help and as for the devil, he does not exist other than in the minds of the brainwashed and manipulated followers of the false churches.

The devil and the evil work that he is associated with has been manufactured by the church to cover their phuck ups and contradictions over the past two thousand years. He is a good scapegoat for their mismanagement and bullshitting.


Evil does exist. It has firmly planted it roots in the very places you do not expect it to be!

Next time something bad happens on our planet ask yourself the question "Why did not God prevent this from happening"

And when you are told that it was the devils work, tell them "Bullshit"

this thread is best left for ignorant folks like the above three fellas. God is good, God is evil, no comments. Wait until you die or when the world ends, it is my prayer that none of you will look up and regret the very words you have just typed, for with the words of your mouth are you saved or condemned!

K2:

He is responsible for evil.

I believe that you are actually making reference to your own god. He's actually the one responsible for evil. By just reading your post, i conclude that you are one of the evil products of your god. I mean your god, the one you make libation to. the one that is in the corner of your bedroom. the one you talk to when you plan your evil deeds. the one that roaches, rats and other insects perch on in your closet. the one that can't save himself when your house goes up in flames. I guess your parents must have disowned you long ago.                                        

Lets mind how we talk about God.we shouldnt judge.every single thing we say in this world.every useless word that comes out from ur mouth shall be used against us

@Seun,
I am utterly dissappointed in you. Why not come out and make your stance known. What do you worship? the wind, sand, water, papa, Abdrusheen, Olumba Olumba? I hit the roof each time i read your post on christianity. What powers of your own do you possess? People who speak evil of God always get knocked down by strange ailment. At that point, they start seeking the face of the Lord. Some die in silence because they consider it too shameful to accept that there's a true living God. Mere flesh and blood!

@Rottweiler
Why are you ringing curses on people who do not agree fully with Christianity and or the Bible?

@Michy
Does that mean that you'll forever keep silent, those things you really think or feel?