MacCantStopMe:



Guy, please learn how to make a concise and clear argument.


You have just twisted things and made no sense at all. Does methodology or having laws now equal truth?

Atheism is simply the disbelief in god. Morality, laws, rules etc are another issue entirely.



Atheism is not a religion and doesnt need a theology or methodology.

It is a simple truth based on the fact that there is no single evidence for any god and all gods so far have been self-contradictory

There is a singular thread I see among atheists. Apart from the fact that it is a disbelief in God/gods, there is little else they can say abt their worldview. This is rather disturbing. Is it just the guys in nairaland? Ok, let me help.
There are certain folks who debunk theism and rather replace it with existentialism. That is, each individual (not state or religion) is solely responsible for giving meaning to life and living it passionately and sincerely.
At least, this is a thought pattern that one can identify. There are also rationalists and positivism. These ones at least define their approach to life.
But here on NL, it seems all ur atheism ends at disbelief in God/goals and there is no system/methodology in handling issues. How absurd.
Here, @mancantstopme is trying so hard to prove nothing, haba!

Kay17:


1. Note my post carefully. Supernatural claims are false for the reason that the claimants have no means of substantiating the claim. The supernatural is said to be beyond our senses and our rationality. So even if we see a supernatural phenomenon, we wouldn't grasp it. You have to be very carefully with your language, because what you mean by 'very materialistic' is vague in relation to what black holes are. So pls try not to misunderstand me.

2. And what if the universal code doesn't fit your values? would you still adopt it?

many people substantiate the supernatural over and over again.
Infact, religion has little present value if it doesnt affect the adherents in this life.

Bobbysworld28:


There is a singular thread I see among atheists. Apart from the fact that it is a disbelief in God/gods, there is little else they can say abt their worldview. This is rather disturbing. Is it just the guys in nairaland? Ok, let me help.
There are certain folks who debunk theism and rather replace it with existentialism. That is, each individual (not state or religion) is solely responsible for giving meaning to life and living it passionately and sincerely.
At least, this is a thought pattern that one can identify. There are also rationalists and positivism. These ones at least define their approach to life.
But here on NL, it seems all ur atheism ends at disbelief in God/goals and there is no system/methodology in handling issues. How absurd.
Here, @mancantstopme is trying so hard to prove nothing, haba!

Atheism is not an approach to life
Atheism is not a lifestyle
Atheism is simply the name of a particular disbelief

Just as people disbelieve in santa claus or the toothfairy, people disbelieve in God/gods. You do not believe in the toothfairy and yet you have no need for a methodology around such disbelief in fairies.


If you are looking for a philosophy or lifestyle with atheistic underpinnings, you can look at secular humanism, rationalism etc.


Please, understand what you are criticising

MacCantStopMe:



Guy, please learn how to make a concise and clear argument.


You have just twisted things and made no sense at all. Does methodology or having laws now equal truth?

Atheism is simply the disbelief in god. Morality, laws, rules etc are another issue entirely.



Atheism is not a religion and doesnt need a theology or methodology.

It is a simple truth based on the fact that there is no single evidence for any god and all gods so far have been self-contradictory

atheism isnt wat u defined.
Atheism is an unproven and wrong belief on the constituents of reality. It adheres with physcal science here to say life is 3d only.

Christianity strts with the fundamental assertion tht life is 4d. That God is a spirit. Man is a spirit havg an earthly experience.

Atheism's claim tht God cannot b proven is a re worded way of sayg life is 3d - materialistic only.

Atheism willfully turns a blind eye to any case tht debunks their claim.

Even evolutionary atheism is built on a blatant unproven lie: non-life birthed life! Which cannot be proven! It is just a THEORY.

asalimpo:


atheism isnt wat u defined.
Atheism is an unproven and wrong belief on the constituents of reality. It adheres with physcal science here to say life is 3d only.

Christianity strts with the fundamental assertion tht life is 4d. That God is a spirit. Man is a spirit havg an earthly experience.

Atheism's claim tht God cannot b proven is a re worded way of sayg life is 3d - materialistic only.

Atheism willfully turns a blind eye to any case tht debunks their claim.

Even evolutionary atheism is built on a blatant unproven lie: non-life birthed life! Which cannot be proven! It is just a THEORY.

You are just stating your misunderstanding of what atheism is.


Atheism is a disbelief in the existence god/gods

Simple and precise.

Any atheist will simply tell you that there is no evidence for God.


All your claims about materialism, evolution, 3d spirituality etc are all strawmen and red herrings.

MacCantStopMe:



Atheism is not an approach to life
Atheism is not a lifestyle
Atheism is simply the name of a particular disbelief

Just as people disbelieve in santa claus or the toothfairy, people disbelieve in God/gods. You do not believe in the toothfairy and yet you have no need for a methodology around such disbelief in fairies.


If you are looking for a philosophy or lifestyle with atheistic underpinnings, you can look at secular humanism, rationalism etc.


Please, understand what you are criticising

So what is the big deal? Do u see anyone running around posting topics abt disbelieing the tooth fairy? The lot of u run around claiming 'I am an atheist' while backing it up with philosophy yet u have no philosophy of ur own.
Am I to take it dt u r as confused as this ur post? If this is the sum total of atheism, it is indeed very pitiable.

Bobbysworld28:


So what is the big deal? Do u see anyone running around posting topics abt disbelieing the tooth fairy? The lot of u run around claiming 'I am an atheist' while backing it up with philosophy yet u have no philosophy of ur own.
Am I to take it dt u r as confused as this ur post? If this is the sum total of atheism, it is indeed very pitiable.

1) Nobody forces religion on me in the name of the toothfairy. This is unlike some christians and muslims who will lie, kill, steal and oppress in the name of their God

2) Atheists normally use philosophy to show the faulty logic of religious arguments

MacCantStopMe:



1) Nobody forces religion on me in the name of the toothfairy. This is unlike some christians and muslims who will lie, kill, steal and oppress in the name of their God

2) Atheists normally use philosophy to show the faulty logic of religious arguments

1. Like a said before man's interpretation of religion has been bastardized over time. That being said, we need to look at and see if it is the concept that is faulty or the approach to it.
2. Atheists use philosophy but do not have one? This is a serious black eye for your folks. If use a vehicle for debunking my truth and I agree with u, I should be able to use that vehicle in assessing life's choice. It will be easier for u to say 'logically speaking, there is no God, therefore i handle all life issues with logic'. This hogwash abt having no philosophy is wht it is HOGWASH!
In english language, disbelief is a form of belief, so hanging urself at disbelief alone leaves much to be desired!

Bobbysworld28:


Truth by its very nature should be reality! It should not changed from place to place or person to person.
Atheism is not even able to prescribed a methodology by which we can try to come to terms with it and u r grappling for reality.
All systems have laws. Take a cursory look at the solar system, there is code and a beauty of design. For atheism to attempt to be reality it must at least bear semblance with reality. What is the atheist code of conduct?

Don't be a sissy.

You guys are the ones making a claim, that there is a god somewhere, omnixxx. The defence is on you. Not me, no.
What methodology do you use in debunking bullshiit and unfounded claims?

You seem not to understand what opposites are, wimp.

Bobbysworld28:

In English language, disbelief is a form of belief!

How much more convoluted can you get?


What sort of things do you snuff, before you login to NL?

qstar:


How much more convoluted can you get?


What sort of things do you snuff, before you login to NL?

Apparently english is not one of ur strongest points.
I disbelieve the existence of God equals I believe in the non-existence of God.
Kindly defends ur beliefs

Bobbysworld28:

1. Like a said before man's interpretation of religion has been bastardized over time. That being said, we need to look at and see if it is the concept that is faulty or the approach to it.
2. Atheists use philosophy but do not have one? This is a serious black eye for your folks. If use a vehicle for debunking my truth and I agree with u, I should be able to use that vehicle in assessing life's choice. It will be easier for u to say 'logically speaking, there is no God, therefore i handle all life issues with logic'. This hogwash abt having no philosophy is wht it is HOGWASH!
In english language, disbelief is a form of belief, so hanging urself at disbelief alone leaves much to be desired!

Atheism is not a body philosophy on its own....it is a simple philosophical conclusion or rational deduction but not a belief/faith/theology

Atheists have other philosophies for their morality/life eg humanism, secularism, rationalism, hedonism, consequentialism etc

So, I hope you understand. Some atheists are buddhists, some are humanists, some are hedonists etc. Atheism itself is not their belief or the basis for a moral code.

Bobbysworld28:

Apparently english is not one of ur strongest points.
I disbelieve the existence of God equals I believe in the non-existence of God.
Kindly defends ur beliefs

Wrong.

The agnostic position cancels out such reasoning.


I disbelieve in the existence of God but I do not rule out the possibility of God existing, hence I do not believe in the non-existence of God.



Simply put; if you disbelieve in fairies, it then doesnt automatically mean that you have a belief towards fairies.



Furthermore, English language has a grammatical failure that many other languages do not have.

"I believe in nothing"
^^^
The above comment in quotes is grammatically correct but logically incorrect. You cant believe in nothing. That is impossible. Belief is towards a positive thing. Believe isnt negative.

qstar:



Don't be a sissy.

You guys are the ones making a claim, that there is a god somewhere, omnixxx. The defence is on you. Not me, no.
What methodology do you use in debunking bullshiit and unfounded claims?

You seem not to understand what opposites are, wimp.

Ahh, d insults start. Have I struck a nerve?
The defense is actually on u. If u had bothered to read the posts preceeding ur entrance, I quite clearly stated my claim while trying to understand the atheist worldview.
What I have gathered however, has been astonishing. Atheism is not a worldview. The ones on NL are united by only one line: disbelief in God. Other than dt, there is nothing else. NOTHING!?! Not even the fabled logic or rational thinking. U only use it when convenient but u dont live by it.
What validates atheism? Philosophy of course! So which ideology do u live by? NOTHING! Even a hedonist has pleasure as his absolute good! U can at least tell what he stands for and how he approaches issues of life even if u do not agree with him.
I am seriously thinking u guys dont even understand what it is u stand for

MacCantStopMe:



Wrong.

The agnostic position cancels out such reasoning.


I disbelieve in the existence of God but I do not rule out the possibility of God existing, hence I do not believe in the non-existence of God.



Simply put; if you disbelieve in fairies, it then doesnt automatically mean that you have a belief towards fairies.



Furthermore, English language has a grammatical failure that many other languages do not have.

"I believe in nothing"
^^^
The above comment in quotes is grammatically correct but logically incorrect. You cant believe in nothing. That is impossible. Belief is towards a positive thing. Believe isnt negative.

Thanks a lot. This gets interesting.
You dont believe in God but cannot rule out that he exist...
This is a much subtler tone than a lot of atheist bandy around. Because they sound so sure that he doesnt exist so those of us who say he exists are fools!
Do I take it then that u r an agnostic?

Bobbysworld28:

Ahh, d insults start. Have I struck a nerve?

No, just stating the facts as i see them.

The defense is actually on u. If u had bothered to read the posts preceeding ur entrance, I quite clearly stated my claim while trying to understand the atheist worldview.

Your claim is?? that there's a god? the burden of proof lies on you, buddy.

What I have gathered however, has been astonishing. Atheism is not a worldview. The ones on NL are united by only one line: disbelief in God. Other than dt, there is nothing else. NOTHING!?! Not even the fabled logic or rational thinking. U only use it when convenient but u dont live by it.

Yes, what unites "atheists" on Nairaland is: disbelief in god. Atheism cuts across many philosophical thoughts and some worldviews. Hence, some atheists on here are: existentialists; humanists; evolutionists; Buddhists; etc.
Aside the disbelief in god, whatever follows are personal opinions.

What validates atheism?

Exactly why i addressed you as a 'wimp' (you'd have to workhard to prove otherwise). You demand "someone" or "something" to lean on? no? We do not have a G.O. nor Pope nor Bible.

Philosophy of course! So which ideology do u live by? NOTHING! Even a hedonist has pleasure as his absolute good! U can at least tell what he stands for and how he approaches issues of life even if u do not agree with him.

You are committing a fallacy. Picking assumptions when something eludes you. Rejection of A doesn't imply acceptance of B, it stands at "rejection of A", which is the unifying factor. Per chance an atheist tells you that he accepts B, doesn't mean all atheists do.

I am seriously thinking u guys dont even understand what it is u stand for

I do think you do not even know what you are debating.

MacCantStopMe:




You are just stating your misunderstanding of what atheism is.


Atheism is a disbelief in the existence god/gods

Simple and precise.

Any atheist will simply tell you that there is no evidence for God.


All your claims about materialism, evolution, 3d spirituality etc are all strawmen and red herrings.

your response is just emotional dismissal. An atheist will tell u there's no evidence of God and try to substantiate his arguments with points that boil down to what I said earlier.
If there's no God, how did the world emerge?
How did life occur?
Why can't life be recreated from inanimate things - like it was supposedly done under evolutionary theory?
Y is man incomparably superior to other animals intellectually?
Where did universal standards of morality , requiring no education, emerge from?
Etc. Many questions No atheists can really answer with their theories.

Face it. Many atheists arent persuaded logically alone , they choose to deny the obvious.

qstar:


No, just stating the facts as i see them.



Your claim is?? that there's a god? the burden of proof lies on you, buddy.



Yes, what unites "atheists" on Nairaland is: disbelief in god. Atheism cuts across many philosophical thoughts and some worldviews. Hence, some atheists on here are: existentialists; humanists; evolutionists; Buddhists; etc.
Aside the disbelief in god, whatever follows are personal opinions.



Exactly why i addressed you as a 'wimp' (you'd have to workhard to prove otherwise). You demand "someone" or "something" to lean on? no? We do not have a G.O. nor Pope nor Bible.



You are committing a fallacy. Picking assumptions when something eludes you. Rejection of A doesn't imply acceptance of B, it stands at "rejection of A", which is the unifying factor. Per chance an atheist tells you that he accepts B, doesn't mean all atheists do.



I do think you do not even know what you are debating.

Ur opinion of me is really irrelevant. I need not prove anything to u.
Now u have come out to state what I wanted all along. The backdrop of ur atheism. Dt was not so difficult, was it? U left me no choice in picking assumptions when u could not present a philosophical outlook of your stanpoint. I demanded something to lean on & ur simplistic mind thinks it is a G.O? Haba, help urself.
Unless u ppl have re-invented english language, I stand by the fact that rejection of A is acceptance of 'not A'

Bobbysworld28:

Ur opinion of me is really irrelevant. I need not prove anything to u.
Now u have come out to state what I wanted all along. The backdrop of ur atheism. Dt was not so difficult, was it? U left me no choice in picking assumptions when u could not present a philosophical outlook of your stanpoint. I demanded something to lean on & ur simplistic mind thinks it is a G.O? Haba, help urself.
Unless u ppl have re-invented english language, I stand by the fact that rejection of A is acceptance of 'not A'

Whatever keeps your pride and makes you sleep warm.

I endorse.

asalimpo:


many people substantiate the supernatural over and over again.
Infact, religion has little present value if it doesnt affect the adherents in this life.

How? With the same senses that are incapable of detecting the supernatural?! You are in a dilemma, because you believe the supernatural exists and it cannot be detected with the senses, yet you contradictorily rely on those same incapable senses to detect the supernatural!

Bobbysworld28:


Thanks a lot. This gets interesting.
You dont believe in God but cannot rule out that he exist...
This is a much subtler tone than a lot of atheist bandy around. Because they sound so sure that he doesnt exist so those of us who say he exists are fools!
Do I take it then that u r an agnostic?

agnostic atheist

But your christian God does not exist. That, I am 100% sure of

MacCantStopMe:



agnostic atheist

But your christian God does not exist. That, I am 100% sure of

U sound confused. Earlier u said u dont rule out the existence of God but now u r 100% sure he doesnt exist.
Make up ur mind!

Bobbysworld28:


U sound confused. Earlier u said u dont rule out the existence of God but now u r 100% sure he doesnt exist.
Make up ur mind!

Nope. For the Abrahamic gods, I am a strong atheist.

For a deistic god, I am a weak atheist

MacCantStopMe:



Nope. For the Abrahamic gods, I am a strong atheist.

For a deistic god, I am a weak atheist

No wonder u all are able to dance around using different philosophical approaches in arguments. So u can be weak on one side while being strong on the other. Dts y it is very covenient for you guys to adopt the 'disbelief in God' code.
Now I really get it. No wonder a lot of them ran away. Getting to the root of the brand of atheism each person practises is the chink in d armour for ur united front.
Dts good

Bobbysworld28:

No wonder u all are able to dance around using different philosophical approaches in arguments. So u can be weak on one side while being strong on the other. Dts y it is very covenient for you guys to adopt the 'disbelief in God' code.
Now I really get it. No wonder a lot of them ran away. Getting to the root of the brand of atheism each person practises is the chink in d armour for ur united front.
Dts good

lol....is my philosophical statement too much for you to comprehend?

MacCantStopMe:





lol....is my philosophical statement too much for you to comprehend?

Yes it is. It smirks of a confused mind which will use any means to discredit a notion it does not like and is ready to discard such means in a heartbeat.
Yes, ur philosophical statement baffles me

Bobbysworld28:

Yes it is. It smirks of a confused mind which will use any means to discredit a notion it does not like and is ready to discard such means in a heartbeat.
Yes, ur philosophical statement baffles me

Let me explain for your simple mind;


The God of the bible (quran too) can easily be shown to be non-existent. He is self-refuting and contradictory. He is loving, yet created hell. He is omnipotent but afraid of iron chariots. He is omniscient but couldnt predict (was surprised) when man used freewill to sin. He uses illiterate prophets rather than announcing his message to everyone.


A deistic god, on the other hand, is so abstract that it is better to just be agnostic and ask for the evidence than to argue against it.

MacCantStopMe:






Let me explain for your simple mind;


The God of the bible (quran too) can easily be shown to be non-existent. He is self-refuting and contradictory. He is loving, yet created hell. He is omnipotent but afraid of iron chariots. He is omniscient but couldnt predict (was surprised) when man used freewill to sin. He uses illiterate prophets rather than announcing his message to everyone.


A deistic god, on the other hand, is so abstract that it is better to just be agnostic and ask for the evidence than to argue against it.

Very funny! Couldn't predict? Here was an omniscient being dealing with one who's realm is in space-time. He had already given him leverage by emphasizing the needful. If he had intervened, man in retrospect would still have called him meddlesome. At least u understand that the inquisitive mind will always want to have his way.
See, to have any form of relationship with a being of freewill and for it to be meaningful, it must be freely chosen. And for a relationship to be freely chosen, there must be possibility of rejection. That is the choice man exhibited, not God!

Kay17:


How? With the same senses that are incapable of detecting the supernatural?! You are in a dilemma, because you believe the supernatural exists and it cannot be detected with the senses, yet you contradictorily rely on those same incapable senses to detect the supernatural!

The supernatural is a by product of spiritual dynamics usually initiated by a believer (or som1 who understands spiritual forces)
.Being spiritual, it is outside of d realm of the five senses and logic but it's effect can be experienced in this material realm.
When it does, there is no argument tht a supernatural event has occured.(though u'll alwayz hav doubters/sceptics).
You can then prove the event in this world. I.e thru d senses.

Like i said, many christians have substantiate the supernatural in their lives,proving that God's word is true and He exists.

Infact, God challenges Christians to prove him.

Bobbysworld28:

Very funny! Couldn't predict? Here was an omniscient being dealing with one who's realm is in space-time. He had already given him leverage by emphasizing the needful. If he had intervened, man in retrospect would still have called him meddlesome. At least u understand that the inquisitive mind will always want to have his way.
See, to have any form of relationship with a being of freewill and for it to be meaningful, it must be freely chosen. And for a relationship to be freely chosen, there must be possibility of rejection. That is the choice man exhibited, not God!

What nonsense are you arguing?

The bible clearly says that God regretted creating humans. Did he not know what humans would do?

So much for omniscience

plaetton:


Isn't it surprising that god- infested countries like Nigeria have far greater road accidents and deaths because the police is seldom there to scare drivers into doing the right and safe things on the roads.?

Hogwash. There are more deaths recorded in the US by traffic accidents than in Nigeria.

asalimpo:


The supernatural is a by product of spiritual dynamics usually initiated by a believer (or som1 who understands spiritual forces)
.Being spiritual, it is outside of d realm of the five senses and logic but it's effect can be experienced in this material realm.
When it does, there is no argument tht a supernatural event has occured.(though u'll alwayz hav doubters/sceptics).
You can then prove the event in this world. I.e thru d senses.

Like i said, many christians have substantiate the supernatural in their lives,proving that God's word is true and He exists.

Infact, God challenges Christians to prove him.

The first step to be taken is to explain what is the material world, because physicists, philosophers, theorists believe that atoms, waves, light, space, to an extent information which are invisible are material. So clearly delineate what the material is as different from the spiritual. Because it is too easy to misunderstand what you mean by material.

Second step, is an effect from a supernatural cause supernatural or a natural in nature? Because if you say the supernatural creates a natural effect, I can easily resort to the logic that it is more plausible for a natural cause to lead to a natural effect. On the other hand, if you say the supernatural creates a supernatural effect, the effect by virtue of its supernatural nature, is incapable of detection. So which is it?