rich_john:

Am really confused here dont know what to believe If there is god nko na hell fire be that abi ? What brought me to this life Ooo,

Well xtianity has no answer to life's crucial question, the whole concept is senseless, but what if, , staying on the fence is a better option

Dont sit on the fence now, i will advice u to taste/try all other religions then made ur decission before sitting on the fence in order to avoid what u are avoiding (HELL)

KunleOshob:

Maybe Mazaje as repented and decided to embrace christianity again But on a more serious note mazaje and other atheists on this forum you guys honestly need to come to know christ and his true gospel, most of what is being preached out there is adulteratd and can at bbest be called doctrines of men I am quite certain if you know and understand what christ is all about you would find him faultless and desire to know him better. The only problem is that the truth as been corrupted by mere men for the sake of their own greed and ego.

amazing

alimat 2:

Dont sit on the fence now, i will advice u to taste/try all other religions then made your decission before sitting on the fence in order to avoid what u are avoiding (HELL)

he didn't say he believed in hell

chukwudi44:

@mazaje

It is ridiculous for you to say you became an atheist because someone in thailand has never heard the name Jesus,what has that to do with the existence of Jesus or the proof of the existence of God.

That someone has never heard about someone or dosen't beleive in someone dosen't really mean he dosen't exist.

If that was the only reason given then I can see why u would think it is ridiculous. But in that post i read that Mazaje did a lot of researh on the history of religion, christianity included, and the decision was based on that. I don't understand how that is ridiculous.

Krayola2:

If that was the only reason given then I can see why u would think it is ridiculous. But in that post i read that Mazaje did a lot of researh on the history of religion, christianity included, and the decision was based on that. I don't understand how that is ridiculous.

Mazaje's research findings were faulty and distorted.

KunleOshob:

Mazaje's research findings were faulty and distorted.

how so?

did Mazaje ever return to complete the story ?

It is only mazaje, huxley, toneyb or tudor that can come with such a RIDICULOUS story as to the basis for leaving christianity.

a. was Jesus not domiciled in israel?

b. did He not command that the gospel be taken to the gentiles?

c. is that not the essential basis for evangelism?

d. are societal beliefs not equivalent to biblical description of false gods?

Sometimes one has to ask if mazaje is educated at all? I have stated repeatedly on this forum that you were NEVER a xtian. . . . u were just a RIDICULOUS church goer. . . .utter rubbish.

A fool says in his heart: 'there is no God'.

noetic2:

It is only mazaje, huxley, toneyb or tudor that can come with such a RIDICULOUS story as to the basis for leaving christianity.

The fact that you accept the entire story without looking at it to see if it makes sense doesn't mean its true.

a. was Jesus not domiciled in israel?

Why is it that the Jews do not believe in him? Its very very strange that such a great person as recorded by the bible came lived the way the bible described and was not written about by any of the jewsih contemporaries. No one living during the time the bible said Jesus lived wrote anything about him. A person that feed 5 thousand people, healed the sick, raised people from the dead, walked on water who had a lot of followers and who the king wanted to meet would have gotten the attention of people like Pliny who were alive and lived in the same city remember jerusalem had a very little population at that time. Its't it funny that the first story( gospel of mark) about Jesus was not even written about some one that claims he ever meet him but by a christian that lived about 50 years after he died. All the other gospels were written long after the death of Jesus by unknown people to be of any importance to anybody seeking the real truth about the historical Jesus.

b. did He not command that the gospel be taken to the gentiles?

The same jesus also told a canaanite woman in matthew 15:22-28 that he came only for the lost sheep of Israel he even called the gentiles dogs. is it the same Jesus that promised his desciples that they will sit with them on the throne judging the 12 tribes of Israel alone?

Mat 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: "Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans.

Mat 10:6 Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel.

Mat 10:7 As you go, preach this message: 'The kingdom of heaven is near.'

Mat 10:8 Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy, drive out demons. Freely you have received, freely give.

The same Jesus that told his desciples not to go into the cities of the samaritans and gentiles but to the lost sheep of israel alone when preaching about the kingdom of heaven that is near is the same jesus that made a big U turn and told his disciples to go preach to the gentiles after inntially warning them not to do that in the first place. . Is there anything in christianity that is not contradictory?

c. is that not the essential basis for evangelism?

Which evangelism exactly? Did Jesus not warn his desciple not to go into the cities of the gentiles when talking about the kingdom of god that is at hand? Did he not say that he came only for the lost tribe of isreal before some how changing his mind later on? . So which is it actually? Did jesus come to save only the lost sheep of Israel as he said or did he come to save the whole of mankind like he also said? . again is there anything in christianity that is not contradictory?

d. are societal beliefs not equivalent to biblical description of false gods?

Only that neither you or any christian out there has ever established that you god is any better than theirs. You only claim using the bible that your god is true while their is false. Non of you have ever demonstrated it al all. They have also done the same claim using their own religious scriputures. Did your god not show that he was a better god than the other gods according to the bible? Gods like baal in the bible by organising a general test for al to come and see? Why is he aftraid to show that he is better than allah, the hindu gods and the rest of the other gods that we have around now adays through test? Is it because he exist only in the imaginations of those that believe in the story?

Sometimes one has to ask if mazaje is educated at all? I have stated repeatedly on this forum that you were NEVER a xtian. . . . u were just a RIDICULOUS church goer. . . .utter rubbish.

If you are really educated you will not come around sounding like a pathetic illetrate because that is how you have just sounded. Are you a christian? How many blind people have you healed? Did jesus not say that those of you that believe in him will be able to perform magic? Why aren't you able to do that is it because the story is a lie?

Nezan:

A fool says in his heart: 'there is no God'.

A bigger fool says in his heart that there must be a god even when he knows that he is lying to himself.

noetic2:

It is only mazaje, huxley, toneyb or tudor that can come with such a RIDICULOUS story as to the basis for leaving christianity.

a. was Jesus not domiciled in israel?

b. did He not command that the gospel be taken to the gentiles?

c. is that not the essential basis for evangelism?

d. are societal beliefs not equivalent to biblical description of false gods?

Sometimes one has to ask if mazaje is educated at all? I have stated repeatedly on this forum that you were NEVER a xtian. . . . u were just a RIDICULOUS church goer. . . .utter rubbish.

What makes you think we were not sincere christians?
I tell you, most of us really wanted this thing to be true. We searched and truly wanted to experience god but nothing. . . .you know why? Because there's NOTHING to experience.

One needs to be ready to defeat cognitive dissonance to be an atheist, it is far easier to just be a church goer. But to come out right and say this whole thing is a sham, you got to have balls, big big balls.

Tudór:

What makes you think we were not sincere christians?
I tell you, most of us really wanted this thing to be true. We searched and truly wanted to experience god but nothing. . . .you know why? Because there's NOTHING to experience.

So true, deluded apologist like neotic forget that we were once in the christian bubble ourselves. While still a believer of the christian bubble I attempted to communicate with the god I was raised with for many years. No god responded to my communication. Even as a young guy I was able to recognize that after numerous years of this one way communication it was unlikely that there was anything there that was going to respond. We're all very familiar with the response and excuse from apologist to these one way communications. "You weren't a true christian", "You didn't listen very well", "You didn't try hard enough or seek god hard enough", etc. The excuses are literally endless as to why no response was forthcoming. In reality you now that its only a one way communication and you just wishing and speaking out loud to yourself and hoping. If there is any thing speacial about being a christian then there will be some positive evidence for it for all to see but so far there is non at all.

People are emotionally attached to the idea of a big father figure out there that has been inculcated into their brains since childhood and will go to great lengths to support their beliefs including having imagined conversations with their favorite god all the time. But the truth is that they have no evidence for it outside the workings of their imaginations.

bindex, tudor, mazaje and all of the atheists and muslims that claim to have once been a born again Christian before "coming to their senses", can I ask you guys one question?  Did any of you know the Lord?  And I don't mean that you thought you knew when obviously you didn't.  If you cannot say categorically that you knew the Lord, then you probably didn't.  If you did not know the Lord therefore, you never were Christians in the first place.  Have you heard of what the Bible refers to as false conversion?  This is were a stony ground hearer receives the Word with joy and gladness.  Then, in a time of tribulation, temptation and persecution, falls away.

If you are really interested in the message of the cross and to know the necessity of faith and repentance in Jesus Christ our Saviour, then go through this test: http://www.wayofthemaster.com/goodperson.shtml

@ mazaje

God is real. seek & ye shall find Him!!!

Oladegbo, you are daft, even a goat worshiper knows the answer to ur question. He knows his goat very well,

OLAADEGBU:

bindex, tudor, mazaje and all of the atheists and muslims that claim to have once been a born again Christian before coming to your senses, can I ask you guys one question?  Did any of you know the Lord?  And I don't mean that you thought you knew when obviously you didn't.  If you cannot say categorically that you knew the Lord, then you probably didn't.  If you did not know the Lord therefore, you never were Christians in the first place.  Have you heard of what the Bible refers to as false conversion?  This is were a stony ground hearer receives the Word with joy and gladness.  Then, in a time of tribulation, temptation and persecution, falls away.

If you are really interested in message of the cross and to know the necessity of faith and repentance in Jesus Christ the Saviour then go through this [url=http://www.wayofthemaster.com/goodperson.shtml/test][/url].

One thing you have to understand is that there are many different versions of god even within christianity. The catholics have a very different version of their own god so do the seven day adventist, mormons, greek othordox, anglicans, pentacostals, baptist and all the other numerous sects of christainity out there. Isn't it funny that only those that subscribe to your own version of of christianity which is the young earth creationist version who truly know the lord? People like you condenm christians that are not young earth creationist as people that do not know the "lord" .

There is nothing like knowing the "lord" or "christians" in the real sense of the word. All there is are people who accept some or all of the teachings of the bible and the foundation it lays out and use it to create all different kinds of gods according to their own personal interpretation and world view.  You need to know that subjective personal experience is not evidence for any god at all, and certainly not evidence that the stories in the bible are true.

You just "feel" that you and the version of christianity you practice is right because you have been indoctrinated into your religion through parents and surrounding culture nothing more. All you are saying in a nut shell is that if you let yourselve believe then you will believe. This applies to not only christianiy but all religions.

This is a warning to those of you who think being a Christian is an easy life, if you are thinking of becoming a Christian think again and count the costs.  Read the article below before you start what you cannot finish.  It is not meant for the lilly livered or faint hearted.  It is only for the brave.

OLAADEGBU:

God loves you and has a wonderful plan for your life.

It is true that God loves you, but you decide if His plan is "wonderful."  If you have heard that happiness comes through Jesus Christ, you may like to think again.  The first thing Jesus said of the Apostle Paul (who wrote most of the New Testament) was that He would show him "how great things he must suffer for (His) name's sake.¹  Three times Paul was beaten with rods, once he was stoned, three times he suffered shipwreck, a night and a day he spent in the sea.²   There were times when Paul was so unhappy, he wanted to die.  The Bible says, "All who live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution."³  It says we enter the Kingdom of God through much distress,⁴ and that we were appointed to afflictions.⁵

Jesus said if we followed Him we would be reviled, persecuted, hated, and all manner of evil would be said against us falsely, for His sake.  He warned that we would have to take up our cross daily, deny ourselves and follow Him, saying, "In the world you shall have tribulation," and even that we may be called to die for our faith.⁶

My wife once spoke to a young man who had believed alluring television advertisements and joined the navy to see the world; and what did he see?  He saw the sea . . . and found nothing but hard work.  Now he couldn't wait to leave the navy.  If they had been honest in their advertising, the navy may not have got as many recruits, but at least the ones they did get would be committed, rather than deserters at heart.

I have told you the truth about Christianity.  Oh . . . I forgot to mention one thing along with the trials comes "the gift of God" . . .everlasting life!⁷  The Apostle Paul lost everything for the sake of his faith, and said that compared to what he had found in Jesus Christ, all the riches of this world were nothing but "dung."⁸

If you are interested in your eternal salvation, with a tender conscience, answer the following:  Have you ever lied, hated, lusted, stolen, committed adultery, had sex outside of marriage (or desired to)?  Have you kept the Sabbath holy, always honoured your parents, have you put God first in your affections, have you blasphemed His name (using it to curse), have you made a god to suit yourself (been guilty of "idolatry"making a god in your own image)?

If you have broken even one of those Ten Commandments, then you have "sinned against God."  On Judgment Day you will be found to be guilty.  Forget any thought of a "wonderful plan" without God's mercy, you will go to Hell.  Unless you repent, you will perish.⁹  God doesn't ask you to consider His plan for your life, He commands you to repent.¹⁰  When Jesus died on the cross, He took the punishment which was due to you and me for our sins.  In doing so, He satisfied the demands of Eternal Justice, and at the same time He demonstrated how much God loves us.  If you repent and put your faith in Jesus, God will forgive your sins and grant you the gift of everlasting life.  Don't say you will "give it some thought"instead obey the command.

If you stepped into a courtroom and offered to pay a £50,000 fine I couldn't pay, what an insult it would be for me to say I would give your offer of help "some thought."  Repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, then by the grace of God hold on, because you have just begun the "abundant life" you are going to be busy swimming upstream against the world (with all its sinful pleasures), the flesh (your sinful nature) and the devil (you'll find out about him).  Read the Bible daily, obey what you read, and you will never fail.

For further reading Foxes Book of Martyrs (at your Christian bookstore).

Bible references:

1. Acts 9:16     
2. 2 Corinthians 1:8     
3. 2 Timothy 3:12     
4. Acts 14:22     
5. 1 Thessalonians 3:3       


6. Matthew 24:9     
7. Romans 6:23     
8. Philippians 3:8     
9. Luke 13:3     
10. Acts 17:30       

@Olaadegbu
It was in paul's time christians were suffering, today our pastors and G.Os enjoy the best the world as to offer including state of the art cars, private jets, yatchs e.t.c on top of all that they are also idolized and hero worshipped by the very same flock they are fleecing. Today it is real igbadun to be a christian leader, na apostle paul no sabi chop life.

Jagoon:

@Olaadegbu
It was in paul's time christians were suffering, today our pastors and G.Os enjoy the best the world as to offer including state of the art cars, private jets, yatchs e.t.c on top of all that they are also idolized and hero worshipped by the very same flock they are fleecing. Today it is real igbadun to be a christian leader, na apostle paul no sabi chop life.

Honestly, pastors are on so much money.

bindex:

The fact that you accept the entire story without looking at it to see if it makes [/b]sense doesn't mean its true.

you are so right. mazaje's story makes no sense . . . . . .that was my intention in asking the questions I did.
Not only does the story not make sense. , , it also gives a bad verdict on mazaje's intellectual capacity. . .the story STINKS.

[b]Why is it that the Jews do not believe in him? Its very very strange that such a great person as recorded by the bible came lived the way the bible described and was not written about by any of the jewsih contemporaries. No one living during the time the bible said Jesus lived wrote anything about him. A person that feed 5 thousand people, healed the sick, raised people from the dead, walked on water who had a lot of followers and who the king wanted to meet would have gotten the attention of people like Pliny who were alive and lived in the same city remember jerusalem had a very little population at that time. Its't it funny that the first story( gospel of mark) about Jesus was not even written about some one that claims he ever meet him but by a christian that lived about 50 years after he died. All the other gospels were written long after the death of Jesus by unknown people to be of any importance to anybody seeking the real truth about the historical Jesus.

1. a belief is an optional thing. , . u make choices. Some choose to believe, others choose to disbelieve. . .that does not dispute the authencity of the message (Jesus)

2. ur assertion is wrong about non-biblical records. I have taken it up with toneyb and he SHAMELESSLY ran away with his tails
There are several non-biblical records that establish the personality of Jesus.

3. u need to understand why EXACTLY the gospels were written before u can understand why they were written long after the death of Jesus. The gospel were NOT written to serve as an evidence to prove anything. . .they were written to serve as records to inform latter day christians who did not witness the earthly era of Jesus. believing or disbelieving the gospel accounts is optional. . the question is the plausibility of ur belief system.

The same jesus also told a canaanite woman in matthew 15:22-28 that he came only for the lost sheep of Israel he even called the gentiles dogs. is it the same Jesus that promised his desciples that they will sit with them on the throne judging the 12 tribes of Israel alone?

This is hilarious.

1. God was revealed to the patraichs who are the founders of the israel nation. . . .who then do u expect Jesus to bring the news of salvation to?

2. the word "Alone" is not in my bible.
Jesus asked that His disciples spread the gospel of salvation to the whole world.

The same Jesus that told his desciples not to go into the cities of the samaritans and gentiles but to the lost sheep of israel alone when preaching about the kingdom of heaven that is near is the same jesus that made a big U turn and told his disciples to go preach to the gentiles after inntially warning them not to do that in the first place. . Is there anything in christianity that is not contradictory?

I believe I answered this already.

Which evangelism exactly? Did Jesus not warn his desciple not to go into the cities of the gentiles when talking about the kingdom of god that is at hand? Did he not say that he came only for the lost tribe of isreal before some how changing his mind later on? . So which is it actually? Did jesus come to save only the lost sheep of Israel as he said or did he come to save the whole of mankind like he also said? . again is there anything in christianity that is not contradictory?

1. what was the mission of apostle paul?

2. what was the mission of peter to the gentile centurion?

Only that neither you or any christian out there has ever established that you god is any better than theirs. You only claim using the bible that your god is true while their is false. Non of you have ever demonstrated it al all. They have also done the same claim using their own religious scriputures. Did your god not show that he was a better god than the other gods according to the bible? Gods like baal in the bible by organising a general test for al to come and see? Why is he aftraid to show that he is better than allah, the hindu gods and the rest of the other gods that we have around now adays through test? Is it because he exist only in the imaginations of those that believe in the story?

you are yet to tender ANY evidence that suggests that God does not exist?

If you are really educated you will not come around sounding like a pathetic illetrate because that is how you have just sounded. Are you a christian? How many blind people have you healed? Did jesus not say that those of you that believe in him will be able to perform magic? Why aren't you able to do that is it because the story is a lie?

I have heard this rubbish over 40 times on nairaland. . . .and I have answered them all repeatedly.
why cant u use ur head to think and ask original questions

Tudór:

What makes you think we were not sincere christians?
I tell you, most of us really wanted this thing to be true. We searched and truly wanted to experience god but nothing. . . .you know why? Because there's NOTHING to experience.

blah blah blah. . .same old tales of LIES and deceit.

1. what did u search and where? whats the truth?
2. what makes u think u were a christian or a sincere one? what does sincere christian mean?

noetic2:

you are so right. mazaje's story makes no sense . . . . . .that was my intention in asking the questions I did.
Not only does the story not make sense. , , it also gives a bad verdict on mazaje's intellectual capacity. . .the story STINKS.

It stinks only because it shows there is more to this life than meets your belief in the lying stories of some unknown jews that know nothing but how to tell lies.

1. a belief is an optional thing. , . u make choices. Some choose to believe, others choose to disbelieve. . .that does not dispute the authencity of the message (Jesus)

Except that the belief you subscribe to is based purely on faith with no evidence at all which is a waste of time to any objective observer.

2. your assertion is wrong about non-biblical records. I have taken it up with toneyb and he SHAMELESSLY ran away with his tails
There are several non-biblical records that establish the personality of Jesus.

I believe you need to go look at the meaning of the word shame because its very clear that you do not know what it means at all. I followed your debate on the other thread and here is the summary from what I read. You brought some non biblical sources you claim extablish the existence of jesus outside the bible which are 1. The Talmud, The writings of Josephus and The writings of some other guy but the problem is that the Tamud was not talking about the jesus of the bible toneyb even provided a link to the talmud itself which I am very sure you did not read, I read it and the jesus talked about in the talmud is not the same jesus talked about in the bible even though their stories look similar at some point but the entire story looks were very very different and they were not the same persons. Josephus writings is a fraud that was even acknowledge by the writer of the link you provided and the other guy(I can't remember his name) did not even mention the name of jesus as a person he knew existed at all, he only talked about a group of people called christians who worship a guy called jesus and called their belief a mischevious superstition which is tantamount to him saying that their belief is false and something that he does not believe at all in.

3. u need to understand why EXACTLY the gospels were written before u can understand why they were written long after the death of Jesus. The gospel were NOT written to serve as an evidence to prove anything. . .they were written to serve as records to inform latter day christians who did not witness the earthly era of Jesus. believing or disbelieving the gospel accounts is optional. . the question is the plausibility of your belief system.

The only reason the gospels were written was because the writers of the gospels wanted people to believe their stories. The gospel of john even says that " these stories were written down so that people will believe in them". A good look at the gospels with all the contradictions that is riddled within them tells any objective reader that the writers do not know what they are really talking about. People who were supposed to be eye witness to such event can never write such a contradictory and poor story about a person they were said to be together with all the time. The stories were written long after the death of jesus by unknown christians who wanted people to believe in their delusion and the stories were written purely by picking and chosen passages from the torah.

This is hilarious.

1. God was revealed to the patraichs who are the founders of the israel nation. . . .who then do u expect Jesus to bring the news of salvation to?

The partraichs of israel were not christians they were jews. Jews are still alive and they do not believe in jesus who a few jews, greeks and other gentiles used passages from their torah to turn into a god.

2. the word "Alone" is not in my bible.
Jesus asked that His disciples spread the gospel of salvation to the whole world.

Jesus also warned his disciples not to preach to the gentiles about the coming kingdom of god that was at hand and even called the gentiles dogs, so which is it? Is there anything in christianity that is not contradictory?

1. what was the mission of apostle paul?

2. what was the mission of peter to the gentile centurion?

Did jesus not also warn his disciples not to preach to the gentiles? Which is it exactly?

you are yet to tender ANY evidence that suggests that God does not exist?

The day you tender one evidence which suggest that your god exist I will be there to tender my own to show that he doesn't.

I have heard this rubbish over 40 times on nairaland. . . .and I have answered them all repeatedly.
why cant u use your head to think and ask original questions

How many blind people have you ever healed? Or don't you believe in your ability to perform magic any more? Did you try and it failed?

@mazaje,
When you discovered a place without Christ why didn't you introduce Him (Christ) to them .
Jesus ordered you to go into the world and preach the gospel so that the blind may see and the deaf may hear.
Where ever you find yourself is your world.Why did you disobey the real mission?.
I advise you not to leave the righteous path.Your creator is a good God,serve him diligently.
Remain blessed

@ Kola oloye

Answer the question, oga. How many blind people have you restored their sights before? How many lame limbs have you straightened? How many blocked ears have you unblocked? Are these not what Jesus said you should do with ease?

bindex:

It stinks only because it shows there is more to this life than meets your belief in the lying stories of some unknown jews that know nothing but how to tell lies.

really? so tell me. . .whats more to this life?

Except that the belief you subscribe to is based purely on faith with no evidence at all which is a waste of time to any objective observer.

the evidences that support my beliefs have been repeatedly stated on this forum . . .that u choose to discard these evidences does not discredit or diminshes their significance,  . . . .so what are u saying.

I believe you need to go look at the meaning of the word shame because its very clear that you do not know what it means at all. I followed your debate on the other thread and here is the summary from what I read. You brought some non biblical sources you claim extablish the existence of jesus outside the bible which are 1. The Talmud, The writings of Josephus and The writings of some other guy but the problem is that the Tamud was not talking about the jesus of the bible toneyb even provided a link to the talmud itself which I am very sure you did not read, I read it and the jesus talked about in the talmud is not the same jesus talked about in the bible even though their stories look similar at some point but the entire story looks were very very different and they were not the same persons. Josephus writings is a fraud that was even acknowledge by the writer of the link you provided and the other guy(I can't remember his name) did not even mention the name of jesus as a person he knew existed at all, he only talked about a group of people called christians who worship a guy called jesus and called their belief a mischevious superstition which is tantamount to him saying that their belief is false and something that he does not believe at all in.

what? 

Did u actually go through the thread and the link i provided? 
All u have done here is to state ur personal opinion planted on the fountain of ignorance and watered by illiteracy. . . . Toneyb asked for historical non-biblical sources and they were provided. . .what u make of these sources is very very insignificant.

The only reason the gospels were written was because the writers of the gospels wanted people to believe their stories. The gospel of john even says that " these stories were written down so that people will believe in them". A good look at the gospels with all the contradictions that is riddled within them tells any objective reader that the writers do not know what they are really talking about. People who were supposed to be eye witness to such event can never write such a contradictory and poor story about a person they were said to be together with all the time. The stories were written long after the death of jesus by unknown christians who wanted people to believe in their delusion and the stories were written purely by picking and chosen passages from the torah.

needlessly irrelevant.

The partraichs of israel were not christians they were jews. Jews are still alive and they do not believe in jesus who a few jews, greeks and other gentiles used passages from their torah to turn into a god.

thats exactly my point. . . . . but it sounds like u dont even know the meaning of rge word "christian". how could the patriachs have been christians?

Jesus also warned his disciples not to preach to the gentiles about the coming kingdom of god that was at hand and even called the gentiles dogs, so which is it? Is there anything in christianity that is not contradictory?

Did jesus not also warn his disciples not to preach to the gentiles? Which is it exactly?

The day you tender one evidence which suggest that your god exist I will be there to tender my own to show that he doesn't.

How many blind people have you ever healed? Or don't you believe in your ability to perform magic any more? Did you try and it failed?

why did u not answer my questions about the missions of paul and peter. . . .  .
they are the answers to the mantra above.

Mazaje see what happens when you abandon ya thread

noetic2:

really? so tell me. . .whats more to this life?

What is more to life says that people should learn to say I don't know instead of lying to themselves and forcefully believing the lies of others because they have been conditioned to do so.

the evidences that support my beliefs have been repeatedly stated on this forum . . .that u choose to discard these evidences does not discredit or diminshes their significance,  . . . .so what are u saying.

You have NO evidence at all to support your beliefs, You have never stated any evidence at all, all you have done so far is simple pleading, even the bible which is the book that your entire belief depends on does NOT talk about evidence but talks about faith, it calls faith a virtue and calls those that have faith blessed. Faith requires that this god that is talked about be experienced through faith. The faithful then can't point to the universe or the earth and say "It proves God exists."If it does where's their faith? That's why the whole thing takes faith.  Without faith, it all falls apart.  The very fact that faith is a prerequisite, is a complete acknowledgment that there is no evidence to be found. The bible does NOT say this are the evidence to show that god exist it all says believers must come to god through faith unless if you are now trying to throw the bible under the bus.

what? 

Did u actually go through the thread and the link i provided? 
All u have done here is to state your personal opinion planted on the fountain of ignorance and watered by illiteracy. . . . Toneyb asked for historical non-biblical sources and they were provided. . .what u make of these sources is very very insignificant.

When your dishonesty has been shown you begin to insult people by calling them names . You did NOT provide any historical non-biblical sources that you keep deluding yourelf into thinking you did does not make it true. The Talmud does NOT talk about the jesus of the bible. Here is a copy of the Talmud read it and stop deluding yourself. Josephus was a fraud as acknowledge by your link. Tacitus called the entire story the most mischievous superstition of all time, Please look at the dictionary meaning of the word superstition it will do you a lot of good.

needlessly irrelevant.

Anything that defeats your meaningless arguments suddenlt becomes irrelevant. . The writers of the gospels did not say that they were recording any history, they said they wanted people to believe what they were writing. They did not even say who they were neither did they say if they have ever meet jesus in person.

thats exactly my point. . . . . but it sounds like u dont even know the meaning of rge word "christian". how could the patriachs have been christians?

The reason I brought the point was that christianity was brought up from Judaism to which jews themselves do not believe in. There Torah was used to create a new god that just it.

why did u not answer my questions about the missions of paul and peter. . . .  .
they are the answers to the mantra above.

Who is paul and who is peter? What do you know anything about them beside what is written about them inside the bible? Whose message supersedes, that of paul and peter or that of jesus?

Jesus warned his disciples not to preach to the gentiles or go near their cities, he also said that he was sent to save ONLY the lost sheep of Israel not the gentiles whom he called dogs as written in the book of matthew. He later said that it was ok to go and reach to the gentiles and that he came to save every body so the question is which is it? Is there anything in christianity that is not contradictory?

so mazaje if i am to understand ur belief, u do not believe that humans were created but evolved fro an ape? sorry just trying to clarify ur stand point

bindex:

What is more to life says that people should learn to say I don't know instead of lying to themselves and forcefully believing the lies of others because they have been conditioned to do so.

how many times has the misnormer above been refuted? what is a lie? for every lie. . .there is something called the truth?
what then is the truth? what are ur evidences to back up this truth?
I dont know what to make of ur assertions. . . . . .they are pointless.

You have NO evidence at all to support your beliefs, You have never stated any evidence at all, all you have done so far is simple pleading, even the bible which is the book that your entire belief depends on does NOT talk about evidence but talks about faith, it calls faith a virtue and calls those that have faith blessed. Faith requires that this god that is talked about be experienced through faith. The faithful then can't point to the universe or the earth and say "It proves God exists."If it does where's their faith? That's why the whole thing takes faith.  Without faith, it all falls apart.  The very fact that faith is a prerequisite, is a complete acknowledgment that there is no evidence to be found. The bible does NOT say this are the evidence to show that god exist it all says believers must come to god through faith unless if you are now trying to throw the bible under the bus.

if I get a cent for every time the rubbish above has been stated and refuted on this forum. . .i would be a millionaire by now.
1. that u dont believe or subscribe to the evidences that have been repeatedly stated and established on this forum. . . does not in any way discredit this evidences.
how many times do I have to repeat this simple fact?

When your dishonesty has been shown you begin to insult people by calling them names . You did NOT provide any historical non-biblical sources that you keep deluding yourelf into thinking you did does not make it true. The Talmud does NOT talk about the jesus of the bible. Here is a copy of the Talmud read it and stop deluding yourself. Josephus was a fraud as acknowledge by your link. Tacitus called the entire story the most mischievous superstition of all time, Please look at the dictionary meaning of the word superstition it will do you a lot of good.

blah blah blah

All u have done is to profer an opinion on the non-biblical historical evidences that supports the existence of Jesus, . . . . .
The last time I checked the bone of contention was the existence of these records. . . . .we have jointly achieved this aim. . . . .what u make of this recirds is largely insignificant.

Anything that defeats your meaningless arguments suddenlt becomes irrelevant. . The writers of the gospels did not say that they were recording any history, they said they wanted people to believe what they were writing. They did not even say who they were neither did they say if they have ever meet jesus in person.

The reason I brought the point was that christianity was brought up from Judaism to which jews themselves do not believe in. There Torah was used to create a new god that just it.

Who is paul and who is peter? What do you know anything about them beside what is written about them inside the bible? Whose message supersedes, that of paul and peter or that of jesus?

Jesus warned his disciples not to preach to the gentiles or go near their cities, he also said that he was sent to save ONLY the lost sheep of Israel not the gentiles whom he called dogs as written in the book of matthew. He later said that it was ok to go and reach to the gentiles and that he came to save every body so the question is which is it? Is there anything in christianity that is not contradictory?

now what are u talking about?

mendax:

so mazaje if i am to understand your belief, u do not believe that humans were created but evolved fro an ape? sorry just trying to clarify your stand point

I don't believe in evolution, I don't know how humans came about and I will not accept empty platitudes and meaningless conjectures that I know are false just to make me feel good(evolution and creationism). I believed in my Christian faith and was very interested in it. So interested in fact that I wanted to learn more, to really understand from a knowledge based and rational basis, not just accept empty platitudes as truth. Unfortunately, (or rather fortunately) the more I dug for understanding the more I found that my faith was empty of thought and reason(Thats why people are encourage to accept it purely based on faith even when the claims it makes make no sense at all). It was only a shaky structure of baseless platitude piled on baseless platitude. After many years of soul searching, religious research, and reasoning, I finally found what I know is the truth  and that is there are no gods, satan, witches etc, only desperate people clinging to the idea of gods to satisfy their need to be "taken care of" by some "higher authority", while looking for a scape goat to blame for their misfortunes(satan, devil, witches etc) that usually comes about as a result of their own greed, ignorance, stupidity, wickedness and selfishness. . . . . .