Before you type again warm yourself because no idol word against the sovereign Lord will go unpunished.


For sure you have been raised to deceive.

Greater

MuttleyLaff:
Ranchhoddas did I call it a miracle? Did I used miracle at all in my cut finger narrative?. You see, people will always read what they want to read, and even if sometimes go to the length of inventing what wasnt in content they read. I didnt say anything about "a miracle of any hierarchy" but mentioned "healing hierarchy and spectrum". They are chalk and cheese

I am pleased to read your succint miracle definition. I couldnt have provided a better definition than that, even if I did, it'll only be slightly better. Healing and miracles are different in the sense that every miracles is a healing of some sort, but not all healings are miracles. I know you 'll want to contest my last sentence but trust me, its undeniably true Ranchhoddas. My cut finger that I recovered from was a healing and not a miracle. It was a simple and ordinary experience so doesnt qualify to be classed a miracle

Now I dont know how you veered off on a strawman mining expedition, even from our last discussion, you seem to be grappling with the concept of rules, and I am seeing evidences of you repeating here too.

I dont know what for, why you had to ask me, if my thoughts had anything to do with the healing, because I never gave the impression that I engaged my thought to assist with healing. What I said, was I just remembered that the blood flow will stop as soon as I clot and that gave me comfort that I was aware of that. Now remember I did say, different thoughts to or for different situations, and the knife wound just fitted that scenario, even applicable to car crash accident victims too

Of course my experience, wont fit the miracle definition. I never at all, said it was a miracle Ranchhoddas. I said, my experience, is definitely one, out of the many lower cadres, in the healing hierarchy and spectrum. The rules that it follows, obviously isnt as strict, complex and rigid as the rules the higher cadres adhere to.

OK let me give you an example of a healing in a somewhat higher cadre in the healing hierarchy and spectrum, the liver. The liver when cut or ruptured grows itself back. Now some ailments, diseases, deformities, etcetera require a miracle aside healing.

What are you disputing about the "god of Nairaland"?
The "god of Nairaland" is as a matter of fact a microcosm of God, the "god of Nairaland" sphere of influence is limited to Nairaland
He is the "god of Nairaland" because of the authority, power, knowledge, presence (i.e. sees activities going on the site), intelligence, love and influence he has over Nairaland.

Being "god" that he is, of course shares similarities with God but the distinctions between him and God becomes very apparent if/when analysed

I don't know why I missed this comment.

The most important part of my definition is "Divine Agency". An external factor that is responsible for triggering the healing process; a factor without which healing would not occur in the manner observed or time frame (usually instant).
If your cut finger had nothing to do with miracles, why did you bring it up?

Anyway, forget all that.
Just note that whenever I use the word miracle, I am always factoring in the action of an external agency. Stop giving me your Nairaland analogy and other tacky examples.
Jesus healed the ear of a soldier, was that a miracle?
Yes it was.
Would the soldier's ear have healed over time without the interference of Jesus? Yes, but then it won't be a miracle anymore.
Stop talking about vague rules you won't be bothered to explain.
Note: External agency and short time frame (usually instantaneous) are prerequisites for qualification as a miracle.
Don't get it twisted.

MhizAngel99:


Classic "God of the gaps" argument LoL.

Google psychosomosis and the placebo effect, then get back to me.

By the way you people are yet to explain what makes Allah different 4rm Yahweh. What if its Allah that healed man? Is there anyway to know? If you're being honest with yourself, you'll know the answer is NO.

The reason religion exists is because people fill in the gaps of things they can't understand with existence of a deity. There was a time people believed the earth was flat. There was a time people believed phenomenons such as lightning, rain and even earthquakes came from God. Science has disproved this.

Science has only made the believability of God's existence less and less logical.

When you don't know, you don't know.

Placebo effect will make a cripple walk? You've got jokes.
Better stick to denial of the event.

This regular talk of earthquakes, tornadoes, eclipses, lightening, etc. being proof that miracles do not happen is just ridiculous.
Miracles always happen in controlled, unpredictable conditions unlike random natural phenomena. How you think this is an argument boggles my mind.

Ranchhoddas:
Placebo effect will make a cripple walk? You've got jokes.
Better stick to denial of the event.

This regular talk of earthquakes, tornadoes, eclipses, lightening, etc. being proof that miracles do not happen is just ridiculous.
Miracles always happen in controlled, unpredictable conditions unlike random natural phenomena. How you think this is an argument boggles my mind.

You know very damn well that i've been emphasizing psychosomosis over the placebo effect in regards to rebuttal. Both of which are topics you possess next to no knowledge about.

It's time i bid farewell to this thread. The stench of ignorance, dogmatic reasoning, and intolerance to differing opinions is surely overwhelming this thread.

You zombies go worship your 'god', while i save my brain cells from being evaporated by your comments.

Who's the next butthurt christian to come and insult or lay a curse on me? Come on, lol, i know there'll be a reply. Satisfy ur low self esteem by replying me back with insults.

Am out.

MhizAngel99:


You know very damn well that i've been emphasizing psychosomosis over the placebo effect in regards to rebuttal. Both of which are topics you possess next to no knowledge about.

They are brothers in arms. Explain to me how a cripple can be made to walk via psychosomosis. Surely you know what a cripple is?

It's time i bid farewell to this thread. The stench of ignorance, dogmatic reasoning, and intolerance to differing opinions is surely overwhelming this thread.

You zombies go worship your 'god', while i save my brain cells from being evaporated by your comments.

Classic case of the Dunning-Kruger syndrome.

Who's the next butthurt christian to come and insult or lay a curse on me?

Are you psychic? How can you tell I am Christian?

Come on, lol, i know there'll be a reply. Satisfy ur low self esteem by replying me back with insults.

Your Highness, we have not got to that part yet --Paul Bates starring as "Oha" in the movie Coming to America.

Am out.

Don't run away love, the party is just about to get started.

Ranchhoddas:
Just so I am not mixing things up.
What do you think made your toes move?

The knowledge that made the neurologists place a suggestive picture on the wall in the room, the steroids they gave me to heal my damaged nerves, the doctors continously suggesting I try to move my toes, the positive mind I continued to have, and the crane far off that came in the window and wiggled my toes, Ranch, all made my toes move.

It was a miracle, I assure you.

budaatum:

The knowledge that made the neurologists place a suggestive picture on the wall in the room, the steroids they gave me to heal my damaged nerves, the doctors continously suggesting I try to move my toes, the positive mind I continued to have, and the crane far off that came in the window and wiggled my toes, Ranch, all made my toes move.

It was a miracle, I assure you.

An argument can be made that it was.
But this is not what I mean. I have updated my definition of miracles to include time frame. This healings occur instantaneously and not over a long period of time as happened in your case.

MhizAngel99:


Classic "God of the gaps" argument LoL.

Google psychosomosis and the placebo effect, then get back to me.

By the way you people are yet to explain what makes Allah different 4rm Yahweh. What if its Allah that healed man? Is there anyway to know? If you're being honest with yourself, you'll know the answer is NO.

The reason religion exists is because people fill in the gaps of things they can't understand with existence of a deity. There was a time people believed the earth was flat. There was a time people believed phenomenons such as lightning, rain and even earthquakes came from God. Science has disproved this.

Science has only made the believability of God's existence less and less logical.

When you don't know, you don't know.

Why you guys looVE to be stupid.
Did I ever say he heard mental issues?
He doesn't hear/understand English language. He's legs were so twisted and dead that I was doubting for some moments that it was possible for him to walk again. And then 21 years cripple ends immediately prayer was made.

It's not funny. Help yourself. Eternal damnation is no joke.

We are waiting

Mighty God Almighty

Awesomeness

Ranchhoddas:
An argument can be made that it was.
But this is not what I mean. I have updated my definition of miracles to include time frame. This healings occur instantaneously and not over a long period of time as happened in your case.

I call what you are doing here, "wiggle". It's what people do when cornered, and is dishonest!

The time from "move your toes" to toes eventually moving was not exactly long, Ranch!

budaatum:

I call what you are doing here, "wiggle". It's what people do when cornered, and is dishonest!

The time from "move your toes" to toes eventually moving was not exactly long, Ranch!

Wiggle what? What does the bold mean exactly? Days, weeks, months. If your doctor came to examine you when your condition was really severe and left your room and returned five minutes later to see you dancing, would his reaction not be markedly different.
I have no stake in this. I am only trying to point out dishonesty. It is very possible that suggestive mind exercises can trigger or hasten the process of healing as in your case. The cause(s) and effects as seen in your case is clear. This is not a miracle. It does not defy logic.
If this thing happens in a non-hospital environment; say a temple, or a prayer crusade, then it is a miracle; especially if it happens in a matter of seconds. This defies logic and science.
It's a miracle, and I dare say such rapid healing cannot happen without the intervention of an external agency.

Ranchhoddas:
Wiggle what? What does the bold mean exactly? Days, weeks, months. If your doctor came to examine you when your condition was really severe and left your room and returned five minutes later to see you dancing, would his reaction not be markedly different.
I have no stake in this. I am only trying to point out dishonesty. It is very possible that suggestive mind exercises can trigger or hasten the process of healing as in your case. The cause(s) and effects as seen in your case is clear. This is not a miracle. It does not defy logic.
If this thing happens in a non-hospital environment; say a temple, or a prayer crusade, then it is a miracle; especially if it happens in a matter of seconds. This defies logic and science.
It's a miracle, and I dare say such rapid healing cannot happen without the intervention of an external agency.

The external entities were the moving petals in the picture on the wall and the crane that came in through the window to move my toes and the wonderful surgeons too and all. The surgeon came in and toes did not move, and when he returned they were dancing.

Only ignorance defies logic, Ranch, and that's what a miracle is, ignorance!

budaatum:

The external entities were the moving petals in the picture on the wall and the crane that came in through the window to move my toes and the wonderful surgeons too and all. The surgeon came in and toes did not move, and when he returned they were dancing.

Yes. This is why it is not a miracle. The same way taking the external entity Coartem to heal your malaria is not a miracle.

Only ignorance defies logic, Ranch, and that's what a miracle is, ignorance!

Were the miracles of Jesus real? Or were they made up stories?

MrPRevailer:


Why you guys looVE to be stupid.
Did I ever say he heard mental issues?
He doesn't hear/understand English language. He's legs were so twisted and dead that I was doubting for some moments that it was possible for him to walk again. And then 21 years cripple ends immediately prayer was made.

It's not funny. Help yourself. Eternal damnation is no joke.

And I suppose "The Possibility of Masterminded Nonsense" is something worthy of celebration?

@MrPRevailer
Wait, am lost

Why would atheists need to explain your miracles? Even if you could substantiate that they actually happened and that no explanation is available, you are no closer to proving a god exists. All you would have done is show that something happened that we don't have an explanation for. That happens all the time. All it demonstrates is that our knowledge is limited, which we already knew. If you choose to believe that your god caused those things to happen, then good for you. All it shows is that you are credulous and may have an impaired ability to engage in critical thinking. If you are offering this reports as evidence of a god, then you are wasting your time and ours.

XxSabrinaxX:

Wait, am lost

Why would atheists need to explain your miracles? Even if you could substantiate that they actually happened and that no explanation is available, you are no closer to proving a god exists. All you would have done is show that something happened that we don't have an explanation for. That happens all the time. All it demonstrates is that our knowledge is limited, which we already knew. If you choose to believe that your god caused those things to happen, then good for you. All it shows is that you are credulous and may have an impaired ability to engage in critical thinking. If you are offering this reports as evidence of a god, then you are wasting your time and ours.

Where did I ask you to explain miracles?
Someone said psychosomosis and I'm asking how it can make a cripple walk. Do you have an answer or do you just want to rant?

HellVictorinho:



And I suppose "The Possibility of Masterminded Nonsense" is something worthy of celebration?

Please can you explain what you mean by "The possibility of masterminded nonsense" in the context of my previous comment.

XxSabrinaxX:
@MrPRevailer
Wait, am lost

Why would atheists need to explain your miracles? Even if you could substantiate that they actually happened and that no explanation is available, you are no closer to proving a god exists. All you would have done is show that something happened that we don't have an explanation for. That happens all the time. All it demonstrates is that our knowledge is limited, which we already knew. If you choose to believe that your god caused those things to happen, then good for you. All it shows is that you are credulous and may have an impaired ability to engage in critical thinking. If you are offering this reports as evidence of a god, then you are wasting your time and ours.

Our basis is clear, you cannot see God with the human eyes but you can see the manifestation of his power. WE DIDNT SEE GOD, YET THE BOY WAS HEALED.
You cannot see electricity, electromagnetism, radiation, etc but you can see it's effect on an object or person.

You're failure to identify this shows you are not critically thinking.

MrPRevailer:


Please can you explain what you mean by "The possibility of masterminded nonsense" in the context of my previous comment.

Based on what you preach,people get born with 99% probability of getting tormented for eternity after they have died, whether or not their lives on Earth involved any form of joy/peace/good health,for reasons that are only reasonable to the 'worship freak' you think you know.

MrPRevailer:



Our basis is clear, you cannot see God with the human eyes but you can see the manifestation of his power. WE DIDNT SEE GOD, YET THE BOY WAS HEALED.
You cannot see electricity, electromagnetism, radiation, etc but you can see it's effect on an object or person.

You're failure to identify this shows you are not critically thinking.

When accessing an event as a possible miracle, you must first assume that the universe follows some regular order(the natural laws and such). There are 3 options to choose from when accessing an event:
a)you were mistaken in what you saw, b) you are ignorant of how such an event occurred naturally, or c) its a suspension of the natural laws (not necessarily a miracle btw).

We know that a) happens. People are always mistaken in what they witness. Obviously, watching a limb regrow or a man without a limb suddenly having one is hard to be mistaken about. We also know that b) happens. We are constantly updating our understanding upon the finding of new evidence and explaining the once unexplained. General Relativity explained things Newtonian physics could not.
However, we have no actual clue whether c) actually happens.

Since the universe follows some particular order, and because we know a) and b) happen, it is more reasonable to assume that the universe still follows a particular order and that a) or b) happened. Most likely b) in the case you gave.

The suspension of the laws of nature is not necessarily a miracle because a miracle is an event caused by the divine. The suspension of the laws could simply be a random event with no connection to some divine intelligence. There is nothing that says the universe must follow these laws, and it could stop doing so.

So in order to prove a miracle, one must prove not only that c) is the most likely answer(good luck with that), and that it was most likely caused by the divine, rather than just a random occurrence. This makes proving a miracle almost impossible.

Granted

MhizAngel99:


Classic "God of the gaps" argument LoL.

Google psychosomosis and the placebo effect, then get back to me.

By the way you people are yet to explain what makes Allah different 4rm Yahweh. What if its Allah that healed man? Is there anyway to know? If you're being honest with yourself, you'll know the answer is NO.

The reason religion exists is because people fill in the gaps of things they can't understand with existence of a deity. There was a time people believed the earth was flat. There was a time people believed phenomenons such as lightning, rain and even earthquakes came from God. Science has disproved this.

Science has only made the believability of God's existence less and less logical.

When you don't know, you don't know.

Ranchhoddas:
Placebo effect will make a cripple walk? You've got jokes.
Better stick to denial of the event.

This regular talk of earthquakes, tornadoes, eclipses, lightening, etc. being proof that miracles do not happen is just ridiculous.
Miracles always happen in controlled, unpredictable conditions unlike random natural phenomena. How you think this is an argument boggles my mind.

MhizAngel99:


You know very damn well that i've been emphasizing psychosomosis over the placebo effect in regards to rebuttal. Both of which are topics you possess next to no knowledge about.

It's time i bid farewell to this thread. The stench of ignorance, dogmatic reasoning, and intolerance to differing opinions is surely overwhelming this thread.

You zombies go worship your 'god', while i save my brain cells from being evaporated by your comments.

Who's the next butthurt christian to come and insult or lay a curse on me? Come on, lol, i know there'll be a reply. Satisfy ur low self esteem by replying me back with insults.

Am out.

MhizAngel99:


You know very damn well that i've been emphasizing psychosomosis over the placebo effect in regards to rebuttal. Both of which are topics you possess next to no knowledge about.

It's time i bid farewell to this thread. The stench of ignorance, dogmatic reasoning, and intolerance to differing opinions is surely overwhelming this thread.

You zombies go worship your 'god', while i save my brain cells from being evaporated by your comments.

Who's the next butthurt christian to come and insult or lay a curse on me? Come on, lol, i know there'll be a reply. Satisfy ur low self esteem by replying me back with insults.

Am out.

Chei why now? Whoever annoyed my mhizdevilangel would have to answer to me.

Seriously I would miss you, your dry jokes and your dracular smile, lack of spiritual clout etc etc etc.

It was indeed fun while it lasted, at least clean and devoid of much bitterness.

Happy to miss you and your trademark !

Graduated

Love you love

Genus

Graciously

jesusjnr:
Chei why now? Whoever annoyed my mhizdevilangel would have to answer to me.

Seriously I would miss you, your dry jokes and your dracular smile, lack of spiritual clout etc etc etc.

It was indeed fun while it lasted, at least clean and devoid of much bitterness.

Happy to miss you and your trademark !

See me see trouble o

jesusjnr, which one are you mentioning me up and down like this? Please o!! Your V.J is too dry to be riding my d!ck like this.

Ranchhoddas:

Were the miracles of Jesus real? Or were they made up stories?

I bet they were reported by the likes of you who didn't have a clue what happened and ignorantly described with embellishments what we now read as miracles, when in fact if he truly did do what he's claimed to have done, can easily be explained.

If you had reported what happened to me, you'd have described it as a miracle too just as quite a lot of religious people who went through it with me also do.