How To Unveil And Promote Ancient Igbo Civilisation - Culture (11) - Nairaland
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| Re: How To Unveil And Promote Ancient Igbo Civilisation by Nobody: 9:16am On Aug 13, 2020 |
Sammy07: I mean the pictures are self explantory enough. Ifa > Afa |
| Re: How To Unveil And Promote Ancient Igbo Civilisation by OfoIgbo: 9:29am On Aug 13, 2020 |
Etinosa1234: Are you trying to claim that Nri-Igbo was not the cultural, political and spiritual overlord of Benin? Is that what you don't believe? Or are you saying that the Ooni of Ife was wrong in asserting Igbo influence was much in evidence, in days gone by? Please indicate which of the above questions, you have problem with. It is so easy to just fire a scattering shot, without pinpointing what you have an issue with. 3 Likes |
| Re: How To Unveil And Promote Ancient Igbo Civilisation by OfoIgbo: 9:34am On Aug 13, 2020 |
Meanwhile, I am still waiting for the Yoruba meaning of IPONRI. Some Yorubas attempted to explain it yesterday, but they were coming up short. If you all claim that the RI stands for (O)RI, then what does IPON mean? Someone else claimed that IPO means CONDITION, which then led to the question, what does NRI mean, to which the person had no answer. I am learning. I need to know what IPONRI means in Yoruba 1 Like |
| Re: How To Unveil And Promote Ancient Igbo Civilisation by OfoIgbo: 9:43am On Aug 13, 2020 |
LegendHero: Here we go yet again, trying to twist history and culture. Nri is generally in the northern Igbo section. You Yorubas got your IFA from Nri's AFA (or AVWA as my people pronounce it). Please, you guys have to consult your Ooni to lecture you guys a little. Igbo people are very ancient, and we ran the majority of Southern Nigeria, which included Benin, Ife, Igala and others. 2 Likes |
| Re: How To Unveil And Promote Ancient Igbo Civilisation by OfoIgbo: 9:50am On Aug 13, 2020 |
Obalatule: I believe Yorubas got IFA through the Nri people that operated in Ife. It is a real pity these Portuguese explorers did not stop over at Ife, during their Benin visit. They would definitely have encountered Nri priests in Ife, running tingz, and teaching Ife people, the whole IFA/AFA culture. |
| Re: How To Unveil And Promote Ancient Igbo Civilisation by OfoIgbo: 9:56am On Aug 13, 2020 |
afube: These people are heavily ignorant. Not only do they precede the Benin and Ife bronze work by many centuries, the artistic intricacies involved in creating those Igbo-Nkwo artifacts, matched and even surpassed some art works from some European countries of that time 3 Likes |
| Re: How To Unveil And Promote Ancient Igbo Civilisation by BabaRamota1980: 10:22am On Aug 13, 2020 |
MinorityOpinion: What exactly are you trying to say? Odinani suggests This a person with last name Odinani contributing input. Not the same with Odinani cult. Please take note |
| Re: How To Unveil And Promote Ancient Igbo Civilisation by Etinosa1234: 11:00am On Aug 13, 2020 |
OfoIgbo: First question...it is only written that the nri had only spiritual influence... politically, military and culturally they were useless Second question.... Rulers are not historians...... If u believe what Ooni said because he's a ruler, then I guess u should also believe Nnamdi Azikiwe and wike claim that they migrated from Benin... . after all they are all rulers |
| Re: How To Unveil And Promote Ancient Igbo Civilisation by OfoIgbo: 11:29am On Aug 13, 2020 |
Etinosa1234: Nnamdi Azikiwe was not a traditional ruler. Ooni is both the cultural and spiritual leader of the Yorubas. He has legitimacy to speak about the Yoruba culture and factors that influenced the culture. Also I never wrote that Nri was the military overlord of Benin. I only wrote that Nri was the political, cultural and spiritual overlord of Benin. Eze Nri had the final and the most influential say, as to who became the Oba of Benin. That automatically made him to most powerful political force in Benin, who was revered by every OBA or titled man in Benin. The Benin culture, which included what had to be done, before an Oba was duly considered a true OBA, to the Nri four market days (which are all Nri-owned deities), to various other things, makes Nri a highly influential cultural factor in the Benin cultural development. The spirituality came in, in the form of IGO OFO(OVWO), IGBA AFA (AVWA) and IGO OJI that will normally be used to concretise on issues and seek divine help and blessings. Let me repeat again, that Nri was the cultural, political and spiritual overlord of Benin. Please read the Portuguese explorers' written records pasted underneath, yet again, and you will find traces of Nri's political overlordship of Benin, with hints of Nri's spiritual duties towards Benin. Joao de Barros in his accounts wrote of a possible pre-Christian influence in ancient Benin Kingdom:- “Among the many things which the king D. Jodo learnt from the ambassador of the king of Benin and also from Joao Afonso d Aveiro of what they had been told by the inhabitants of these regions was that to the east of Benin Kingdom at twenty moons journey which according to their account and the short journeys they made would be about two hundred and fifty of our leagues (5.556km or 3.456 is a league) there lived the most powerful monarch of these parts who was called “Ogane”. Among the pagan chiefs of the territories of Benin, Ogane was held in as great veneration as is the supreme Pontif with us. “In accordance with a very ancient custom, the King of Benin, on ascending the throne, sends ambassadors to Ogane with rich gifts to announce that by the decease of his predecessor, he has succeeded to the Kingdom of Benin and request confirmation. To signify his assent, the Prince Ogane sends the King a staff and a head piece of shining brass fashioned like a Spanish helment in place of a crown and scepter. He also sends a cross, likewise of brass to be worn round the neck, a holy and religious emblem similar to that worn by the KNIGHTS of the order of Saint JOHN. Without these emblems the people do not recognize the King as lawful ruler, nor can he call himself truly king.” “All the time this ambassador is at the court of Ogane, he never sees the Prince, but only the curtains of silk behind which he sits, for he is regarded as sacred. When the ambassador is leaving, he is shown a foot below the curtains as a sign that the Prince is within and agrees to the matters that he has raised; this foot they reverence as thought it were a sacred relic” “As a kind of reward for the hardships of such a journey, the ambassador receives a small CROSS, similar to that sent to the King, which is thrown around his neck to signify that he is free and exempt from all servitudes and privileged in his native country as the KNIGHTS are with us. https://medievalarchives.com/2010/09/25/medieval-cross-influenced-ancient-benin-culture/ 3 Likes |
| Re: How To Unveil And Promote Ancient Igbo Civilisation by Nobody: 12:59pm On Aug 13, 2020 |
BabaRamota1980: Look at first picture about afa |
| Re: How To Unveil And Promote Ancient Igbo Civilisation by Nobody: 1:20pm On Aug 13, 2020 |
See the coronation of oba of Benin, no mention of an Nri priest. Who is ogane sef, he might be igala man that colonised igbos 1 Like
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| Re: How To Unveil And Promote Ancient Igbo Civilisation by LegendHero(m): 2:28pm On Aug 13, 2020 |
MinorityOpinion: Exactly, now based on normal logic, I was able to deduce that Afa was actually a product of Igala colonization of the Northern Igbos and is just a product of Igala (Yoruba sub-group). That give credence to the fact that Igbo had to link to the Yorubas to give their culture some form of authenticity and I now see the reason why their culture is the weakest among the major ethnic groups in Nigeria. It’s because their past is undefined. I don’t really want to waste my time on irrelevances, I would have tried to carry out more research on that said Afa and get it’s true origin. But I’ve learnt to devote my time to productive things. 4 Likes |
| Re: How To Unveil And Promote Ancient Igbo Civilisation by LegendHero(m): 2:58pm On Aug 13, 2020 |
OfoIgbo: You are confused. What is your said Afa origin? Can you tell me how NRI founded the said Afa? Don’t play this game with me coz you’ll get burnt if I actually want to just embark on trying to find the link of the true first oracle name and it’s origin. One thing is 80-90% certain, other southern tribes in Nigeria derive their oracle from one major origin coz the name of their oracle sound too alike and sensible historians will find a clue. Oracle name of some tribes: Mina - Ipha Fon - Fa Yoruba - Ifa Igala - Ifa Nupe - Eba Idoma- Epa/Eba Edo - Iha Urhobo - Epha Isoko- Eva Igbo - Afa/Efa/E(p)ha Now can you see Igbo has three types, now let’s us check the distinct Igbo name. Now see the Igbo sub-group and what they call their oracle: Agbor- Efa Onicha- Afa Nri - Afa Nsukka- Eha Mbiase - Afa Can you see even from a layman reasoning, it’s evident the name change among Igbos shows that they actually don’t own the said Ifa and it’s as a result of borrowing because the name changes and they don’t have a unique name. Now imagine we just try to delve into this matter further, we might just get the origin of the Efa/Afa in Igbo to know how they came about the name. Cc: MinorityOpinion 3 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: How To Unveil And Promote Ancient Igbo Civilisation by OfoIgbo: 4:10pm On Aug 13, 2020 |
LegendHero: I don't believe what I am reading here. This is one of the dumbest ways to ever prove lack of ownership. For your information, when it comes to Nri-Igbo market days, There are Eke, Oye, Afo and Nkwo. For some Igbos Oye is ORIE. For my Nri people and people around the Awka axis, Afo is AVO Now the fact that there are different ways of pronouncing the market days in Igboland, have never ever removed the ownership of those market deities from the Nris. Even Benin or Igala people who use the same market days, will never even bring this line of argument. AFA or AVA is a huge pillar in our ancient traditional spirituality, and even the neutral Portuguese reported that the Eze Nri was like a Pope figure to everyone around the vicinity of Benin, which by the way, included Ife, as Ife's distance to Benin is shorter than Nri's distance to Benin. And you seriously think the Pope of our traditional spirituality will be borrowing AFA from Ife. In Roman catholic parlance, it is just like saying that the Vatican borrowed (or learnt) the Angelus from Ragnar's Scandanavia. It's not possible. Rather, it is the other way round, Catholicism in the Scandinavia, arrived from the Vatican in Rome. 5 Likes |
| Re: How To Unveil And Promote Ancient Igbo Civilisation by Nobody: 4:20pm On Aug 13, 2020 |
OfoIgbo: You are a liar, who is Eze Nri? Eze system was introduced by lugard, there was nothing like Kings in igbo land. 1 Like 1 Share
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| Re: How To Unveil And Promote Ancient Igbo Civilisation by Nobody: 4:27pm On Aug 13, 2020 |
LegendHero:Exactly, there history is not that important, even the British were not interested in it, the first king in igbo land was during the colonial era. Not to even talk about ifa or something, the igala were their priest which means the priest were the diviners. The Portuguese article that he was using as back up didn't say much about Igbo or the f.ucking Eze Nri he was talking about, it was talking about cross(which resemble the Christians own) the ogane (who was a priest) always give to Benin Kings, the article mention East of Benin, if you check this picture very well ifa was said to be brought by gogo from Yoruba Town, same Benin East. Their history is not interesting and there is almost no information about them except how other smaller tribes conquered them.. Cc legendhero, Sammy07, ThatFairGuy, Etinosa1234, obalatule, babaramota1980 2 Likes 2 Shares
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| Re: How To Unveil And Promote Ancient Igbo Civilisation by OfoIgbo: 4:32pm On Aug 13, 2020 |
MinorityOpinion: Before Lugard came, there was already the Eze Nri stool which predates the Norman rule of England starting from 1066. There was already the Obi of Onitsha and the Eze Aro, Igwe Nnewi royal stools. By the time Lugard came, the Nris reported that there were already about 60+ royal stools in Igboland. Nris knew this, because it was Nri priests that installed every single one of those Ezes and Igwes and Obis of Igbo towns, and Obas of Benin and Attahs of Igala. But the majority of the Igbo towns were still being ruled by elders and the ozo society. 5 Likes |
| Re: How To Unveil And Promote Ancient Igbo Civilisation by Nobody: 4:43pm On Aug 13, 2020 |
OfoIgbo: Igbos have age group or something, there is even a proverb in igbo that translate to "igbo have no king" the Kings that you mention especially onitsha have Benin and Igala written all over it, most of the priest are not Igbos but immigrants especially the igalas. I don't wanna argue the Eze Nri thing but 1066? Cmon even in the 15th century the European that came didn't mention of any stool or Royalty in the same sentence with igbos. Cc legendhero, Sammy07, ThatFairGuy, Etinosa1234, obalatule, babaramota1980 3 Likes 3 Shares
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| Re: How To Unveil And Promote Ancient Igbo Civilisation by OfoIgbo: 4:45pm On Aug 13, 2020 |
MinorityOpinion: Yorubas and jealousy  When the British colonisers asked Eze Nri Obalike, which territories were under Nri influence, he mentioned Aguleri, Idu (Bini) and a number of other towns. He was not aware of an earlier Portuguese visit of Benin. Nri traditionalists already know of this relationship between Nri and Benin, and the fact that vestiges of Nri civilisation still litter Benin culture, makes it difficult to disprove. Igala land is to the north of Benin. Nri territory is to the east of Benin. Almost due east, and the Eze Nri remains a priest king, not just a king, which totally fits the PAPAL FIGURE description given to him. Your jealousy of the Igbos may send you to a mental institution, if you don't check it. Please help me in hailing Nri. It ain't easy Nri Ji Ofo. Nri bu isi Igbo 6 Likes |
| Re: How To Unveil And Promote Ancient Igbo Civilisation by Nobody: 4:52pm On Aug 13, 2020 |
OfoIgbo:
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| Re: How To Unveil And Promote Ancient Igbo Civilisation by LegendHero(m): 4:53pm On Aug 13, 2020 |
MinorityOpinion: This is TAO11 core competency because I’m not even interested in studying Benin or Igbo history to start with so I won’t expend my time to even researching anything about them. Igbo history/culture is the weakest among the major southern groups and that explain why they (Igbos) themselves are even finding it hard to preserve their roots because it’s too disjointed and fake to start with. Your bolded word says it all. Their history is not interesting except how smaller tribes conquered/colonized them. No time to waste! 3 Likes |
| Re: How To Unveil And Promote Ancient Igbo Civilisation by TAO11(f): 4:32am On Aug 14, 2020 |
Even Igbos too?? Hehehe! God is wonderful. Everyone somehow need Oduduwa to validate their culture. Who no like better thing?  Lots and lots of ignorance being pumped in here. Touching on only two of the misinformation here, viz. (1)Igbo-Ukwu bronzes and (2)The Ogane who resides in the “east”: (1) The archaeologist who worked on the Igbo-Ukwu ‘bronzes’ was Professor Thurstan Shaw. Due to his work in the years 1959-60, the Igbo-Ukwu ‘bronzes’ is still thought, among common folks, to pre-date the Ife ‘bronzes’. Nothing could be further from the truth. Such assumptions among common folks are terribly mistaken because the early dates initially associated with the Igbo-Ukwu 'bronzes' are now regarding as misleading by experts — including Professor Thurstan Shaw himself. At the minimum, the radio-carbon dates initially attributed to the Igbo-Ukwu ‘bronzes’ are now noted to be due to erroneous exaggeration, and are therefore not absolute, not final, and not conclusive. To quote the words of Professor Thurstan Shaw himself in a later publication in relation to the Igbo-Ukwu artefacts, he sums up and concludes as follows: “SUMMARY: In the discussion of the reliance which should be placed on the Igbo-Ukwu radiocarbon dates, it is necessary to make certain that what evidence we have is correctly used. The precise locations of the samples used for dating are recalled and possible sources of error discussed. Consideration is given to the arguments for a date later than that suggested by the radiocarbon dates, stemming from the state of preservation of the textiles, the character of the beads, the pottery evidence, analogies with the presumed dating of Ife and Benin, the quantity and the source of the copper, and what is known of pre-European trading patterns in West Africa. The latter is probably the most serious objection to a very early date, but the question will only be settled with the acquisition of more archaeological evidence.” Reference: Thurstan Shaw, “Those Igbo-Ukwu Radiocarbon Dates: Facts, Fictions and Probabilities”, The Journal of African History, Vol. 16, No. 4, (1975), p.517. Furthermore and in relation to the foregoing, I should clarify and caution that the phrase: the earliest date obtained from the dated Ife ‘bronzes‘ is not one and the same thing as the phrase: the earliest date possibly obtainable from any of the not-yet-dated Ife ‘bronzes’. This foregoing clarification is of utmost relevance here because “much of the bronze/brass art of Ife has not been dated.” — S.A. Akintoye, “A History of the Yoruba People”, 2010, p.52. Moreover, the bronze casting tradition of the Yorubas is not isolated or restricted to the Ife subgroup. Later finds in the course of the 1900s came to prove that the ancient bronze casting art also existed in other parts of Yorubaland such as: Owo, Obo-Aiyegunle (in Northern Ekiti), Ijebu-Ode, etc. . . . (2) Talking about the Ogané of the early Portuguese account who is noted to be “the most powerful monarch” in our part of the world, and who lived in the “east”. Despite the description of “east” in this account, I am still unaware of any historian (past or present) who identified this monarch as an Igbo king. From the beginning of the twentieth century, scholars had no reason to doubt that this Ogane of the Portuguese account is none other than the Ooni of Ife. (see e.g. Stoll 1902:161-166; Roth 1903:6n1; Marquart 1913:52; Talbot 1926:1:155-156, 281-282, 3:573; Schurhammer 1928:28-30; Bradbury 1964:151, Paula Marti 1960:63, Mauny 1961:182; Akinjogbin 1967:41-43; Ryder 1969:31, Law 1973:17-19; Willett 1973:137-138; Obayemi 1976:247; Horton 1979: ; Akintoye 2010:141-142; among others). Historians have maintained for, valid and factual reasons, that the description of “east” in the account is — rather than literal — of a religious significance. The justification for this comes from the fact that every received detail about the Ogane in the account lines up perfectly only with the Ooni of Ife among all monarchs throughout the Gulf of Guinea. Moreover, Ife is well-known among the ancient cultures of our region (at least west of the Niger River) by the religious epithet of: “the place from where the sun rises” — Ife Oodaiye, ibi ojumo tii mo wa. (i) This ancient religious epithet of Ife as, the place of the rising sun, remains well-known even till date by every typical Yoruba person. (ii) This ancient religious epithet of Ife was also well-known in Benin Kingdom at least up to the 1920s. This fact comes from H.L. Ward-Price’s “Dark Subjects” wherein he noted that Oba Eweka(II) informed him that, every morning at dawn he faces the rising sun while observing certain rituals to his great-lord (Oghene) who lives in Ife. (iv) This religious epithet of Ife is also found to be well-known in today’s Republic of Benin as Robin Horton’s citation of Maupoil, B’s “La Geomancie” 1943 publication shows below: “Maupoil in his classic account of Dahomean religion, tells once more of a strong association of Ife with dawn and the east. He adds that although in this area the association is one that actually corresponds with geographical reality, in the minds of the people it is not so much a summary of geographical observation as a highly appropriate piece of symbolism. For Dahomeans, dawn and the east are in this context first and foremost symbols of certain admired attributes of Ife.” (iv) This religious epithet of Ife was also recorded by David Hinderer during his missionary visit to Ife in the 1850s. He wrote: “Ife is famous as being the seat of idolatory; all the multiple idols of this part of the country are said to emanate from the town; from there the sun and moon rises where they are buried in the ground, and all people of this country and even white men sprung from this town.” . . . In summary: Scholars have from the beginning identified this Ogane (Oghene) as the Ooni of Ife. The only notable exception to this identification used to be A.F.C. Ryder who in 1965 hypothesized the geographical north-north-eastern direction, rather than the geographical western direction of Ife. However, as Elizabeth A. Isichei has confirmed, Ryder later abandoned this solitary and radical idea in his 1969 work entitled “Benin and the Europeans”. In sum, every redoubtable scholar and historian of precolonial Nigeria today has no iota of doubt in identifying the Ogane of the Portuguese account as the Ooni of Ife. See the attached screenshot from page 47 of Adam Knobler’s (2016) work for a very recent apt summary of this identification. cc: LegendHero, Sammy07, 900winer. 5 Likes 3 Shares
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| Re: How To Unveil And Promote Ancient Igbo Civilisation by Hellraiser77: 10:59am On Aug 14, 2020 |
Sammy07:You wish, Igbos are the grandpa of all southern tribes |
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