DispatcherLagos:

Of course, to be visible physically, a spirit must have a flesh it lives in. Christ was not a spirit for Q's long as He stayed here, however, His death took away the limitations accruable to having a flesh. Notice that after resurrection, he now has the ability to "appear and disappear" at will, something He didn't do throughout His 33+ years on Earth

How are you so sure about this? The Bible only recorded Jesus when he was born then around 12 and the around over 30+. No information about his 1-11yrs and 13-29yrs!

NNTR:


Without trying to risk obfuscating or cause a head scratcher, yes, man is a spirit being, who essentially is a soul housed in a human being body, lawfully living on earth to express him/herself in accordance with his/her nature and is legally existing to experience life on earth too

The questions that begs to be answered are these:

A/ How did God form the spirit of man aka ruach aka the breath of life aka the life force within him
B/ Also how exactly did the man become a living soul, at what point did the man become a living soul and why at that particular point did the man become a living soul?

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

You say man is a spirit being but Jesus Christ is not spirit?

tctrills:
You say man is a spirit being but Jesus Christ is not spirit?

Every human beings beings, this would include Jesus Christ too, are spirit beings, who essentially are, souls housed in a human being body, that lawfully living on earth to express themselves in accordance with their natures and are legally existing to experience life on earth too.

Jesus Christ, would not be spirit, would not be ruach, would not be breath of life, would not be life-force, just the same way you and I wouldnt agree nor accept that we are spirits, aka ruach aka breath of life aka life-forces. We are not spirits specifically because we are souls

Now listen to this, the spirit, aka ruach, aka breath of life, aka life-force, belongs to God, this is the reason why upon death, it goes back to God, but then as for souls, your soul is yours, and its the reason why upon death, your soul is the only thing left that stays as you, loll.


_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

tctrills:


I quoted Zachariah 12.1, not any of these you are quoting. Also, the thing with ancient Hebrew is that most scholars do not agree hence we have different explanations.

I don't understand Hebrew either. That's why I asked you to make use dictionary and corcondance to aid your understanding of this polysemic word.
For example, the English word 'Iron' may have different meaning in different context. It could mean a type of metal, pressing Iron or even an element in chemistry.

When it comes to studying words found in the Bible, you also need to know the context in which the word appears and the meaning also.

I'll go over this to make sure you understand it.

WIND(John 3:

New International Version
The wind blows wherever it pleases-
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
The Spirit breathes where he will.

It takes deligent study to know that the context of Rau'ch /Pneuma is just the action of air in motion and not a personal force .

Life-force
It is the life force in all living creatures both humans and animal that energize or power them.(Genesis 7:22; Psalm 104:29; )
Ecclesiastes 3:19
for there is an outcome for humans and an outcome for animals; they all have the same outcome. As the one dies, so the other dies; and they all have but one spirit

So, it's the same impersonal life force(Spirit) that powers humans that also powers animals.


There are two nature. Physical being with physical body and spirit being with spirit/spiritual body.
There is no way someone can be both at a time.(Don't mistake it with other meanings of Spirit). Heavenly being and creatures are spirit being while earthy creatures are physical being.

'If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual one'(1cor 15:44)

Christ told the thief on the cross 'today, you would be with me in paradise. We know the thief died. his body did not go to paradise. We know Christ was not lying.

Good that you aknowledge that Jesus didn't go to paradise that day.

The thief asked to be remembered “….when you come into your kingdom”, in other words at a later date. Jesus is saying “I will tell you now..”

“I tell you today, you will be with me in paradise.”

The comma has been put in the wrong place, reinforcing the translators’ view that Jesus went to heaven and that the thief went with him.

Jesus spent three days in the grave as the gospel accounts state.

tctrills:


I want to emphasize, Please if you are not a Hebrew scholar don't try to explain ancient words of Hebrew. Even ancient scholars are not always right.

So I made some research to find the meaning of Pneuma and Rau'ch. Your definitions are a bit faulty. Below are my findings from my study, I advise you to make further study on the subject.

If you take your time to go through this article you posted, you will see that this almost what I'm showing you.

NNTR:



:

A/ How did God form the spirit of man aka ruach aka the breath of life aka the life force within him
B/ Also how exactly did the man become a living soul, at what point did the man become a living soul and why at that particular point did the man become a living soul?

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

Good question. Both your questions is one

““And Jehovah God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul.” Genesis 2:7 ASV

When Adam was created he was inanimate until the breath of life(Life-force) was breathed into him by God. Then he became a living soul. Note that Adam “became a living soul.” He was not given a soul but he himself became a soul.
After receiving lifeforce, breathing started. It's breathing that sustain the lifeforce. Without breathing, the person will die.
Just like how electricity power(Spirit/lifeforce) powers our electrical appliances (Soul). If the electricity is interrupted, the appliances die(Dead soul/inanimate)

haddeylium:
Good question. Both your questions is one

Are you setting the questions or it's me?
If both the two questions were one, then why did I bother issuing two questions. Smh, pfft, loll.

haddeylium:
““And Jehovah God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul.” Genesis 2:7 ASV

When Adam was created he was inanimate until the breath of life(Life-force) was breathed into him by God. Then he became a living soul. Note that Adam “became a living soul.” He was not given a soul but he himself became a soul.
After receiving lifeforce, breathing started. It's breathing that sustain the lifeforce. Without breathing, the person will die.
Just like how electricity power(Spirit/lifeforce) powers our electrical appliances (Soul). If the electricity is interrupted, the appliances die(Dead soul/inanimate)

Please reattempt answering the two questions separately and using A/ and B/ so that relied answers can be easy to tell apart.

Please note in the second question the asks that: at what point did the man become a living soul and why at that particular point did the man become a living soul? Thanks.

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

[quote author=haddeylium post=108828191]

If you take your time to go through this article you posted, you will see that this almost what I'm showing you. [/quote there are similarities but the difference is clear.

NNTR:
Are you setting the questions or it's me?
If both the two questions were one, then why did I bother issuing two questions. Smh, pfft, loll.
Please reattempt answering the two questions separately and using A/ and B/ so that relied answers can be easy to tell apart.

Can you restructure your part A question? Maybe I missed out something cos' I'm sure I answered it.

Please note in the second question the asks that: at what point did the man become a living soul and why at that particular point did the man become a living soul? Thanks.

Are you sure your read my Bible based answers reply to this earlier?

Slowly'
First Jehovah made a human body. But it was lifeless and a dead soul.
Then, he continue to blast a breathe of life(or spirit) which was sustain with breathing. At they point, Man became a living soul

tctrills:
there are similarities but the difference is clear.

So, what about you? What's your view of this?

tctrills:
If you take your time to go through this article you posted, you will see that this almost what I'm showing you. there are similarities but the difference is clear.

haddeylium:
So, what about you? What's your view of this?

Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is living and active and full of power
[making it operative, energizing, and effective].
It is sharper than any two-edged sword,
penetrating as far as the division of the soul and spirit [the completeness of a person],
and of both joints and marrow [the deepest parts of our nature],
exposing and judging the very thoughts and intentions of the heart.

tctrills, if you and haddeylium had taken a stab at answering those two questions I earlier asked, that you didnt confront, the penny would have dropped for you, and causing you to see how clearly the similarities and the difference between the soul and spirit (i.e. spirit of man aka ruach aka the breath of life aka the life force) are

Hebrews 4:12 above, aside being instructive, is self-explanatory

For your information, Pneuma and Ruach, mean the same thing. The former is Greek, while the latter, is Hebrew/Aramaic

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

haddeylium:
Can you restructure your part A question? Maybe I missed out something cos' I'm sure I answered it.

Are you sure your read my Bible based answers reply to this earlier?

Slowly'
First Jehovah made a human body. But it was lifeless and a dead soul.
Then, he continue to blast a breathe of life(or spirit) which was sustain with breathing. At they point, Man became a living soul

Never mind, I will do it myself, I'll cut to the chase, answer the two questions myself

A/ How did God form the spirit of man aka ruach aka the breath of life aka the life force within him
Answer
God formed the spirit of man aka ruach aka the breath of life aka the life force within Adam, simply by breathing into Adam's nose


B/ Also how exactly did the man become a living soul, at what point did the man become a living soul and why at that particular point did the man become a living soul?
Answer
The point at where and how exactly man became a living soul, (i.e. when he became animated, as meaning come alive) was exactly at the point that his heart struck a beat upon the infusion of ruach aka the breath of life aka the life force through his nostril which permeated through out his body, to strike a cord in his heart, which is where the seat of the soul extended from right to the brain. It is the steady throbbing pulsation of the heart to made him become a living soul, loll.

When the heart, stops beating, we all know what becomes of the body and what happens next, loll.


_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

NNTR:

Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is living and active and full of power
[making it operative, energizing, and effective].
It is sharper than any two-edged sword,
penetrating as far as the division of the soul and spirit [the completeness of a person],
and of both joints and marrow [the deepest parts of our nature],
exposing and judging the very thoughts and intentions of the heart.

tctrills, if you and haddeylium had taken a stab at answering those two questions I earlier asked, that you didnt confront, the penny would have dropped for you, and causing you to see how clearly the similarities and the difference between the soul and spirit (i.e. spirit of man aka ruach aka the breath of life aka the life force) are

Hebrews 4:12 above, aside being instructive, is self-explanatory

For your information, Pneuma and Ruach, mean the same thing. The former is Greek, while the latter, is Hebrew/Aramaic

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

I actually agree with you. Man, Jesus Christ and God the Father are all firstly spirit beings

haddeylium:

So, what about you? What's your view of this?

Man like Christ was first a spirit. Our spirits were with God. We are his spirit Children just like Christ but Christmas is the first born. The rest of us came after. When the bible talks of spirits in prison, it is talking about the spirits of man.
So if God is a spurit, man too is a spirit

tctrills:
I actually agree with you. Man, Jesus Christ and God the Father are all firstly spirit beings

I believe you somewhat are conflating thing up, but never mind, its all good as nothing really is spolit.

OK Let's explore this your 'Man, Jesus Christ and God the Father are all firstly spirit beings' comment a bit more then

A/ Out of the soul and spirit, which belongs to man, which belongs to God?
B/ Which out of the two, is you, which is God's?

Be prepared and ready to defend whatever answer you advance, loll

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

NNTR:
I believe you somewhat are conflating thing up, but never mind, its all good as nothing really is spolit.

OK Let's explore this your 'Man, Jesus Christ and God the Father are all firstly spirit beings' comment a bit more then

A/ Out of the soul and spirit, which belongs to man, which belongs to God?
B/ Which out of the two, is you, which is God's?

Be prepared and ready to defend whatever answer to advance, loll

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

I don't understand your question

tctrills:
I don't understand your question

They are not trick questions but are simple, straightforward and easy to understand question.

You probably was unable to answer the questions because you dont understand who you are, as in meaning, you dont understand what between a soul and spirit, you are.

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

NNTR:
They are not trick questions but are simple, straightforward and easy to understand question.

You probably was unable to answer the questions because you dont understand who you are, as in meaning, you dont understand what between a soul and spirit, you are.

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

just rephrase the question

tctrills:
just rephrase the question

[s]A/ Out of the soul and spirit, which belongs to man, which belongs to God?
B/ Which out of the two, is you, which is God's?[/s]

A/ What are you? Are you a soul or are you a spirit?
B/ Who does the soul belong to? Does it belong to man or it belongs to God?
C/ Who does the spirit belong to? Does it belong to man or it belongs to God?

Be prepared and ready to defend whatever answers you give, loll

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

NNTR:
[s]A/ Out of the soul and spirit, which belongs to man, which belongs to God?
B/ Which out of the two, is you, which is God's?[/s]

A/ What are you? Are you a soul or are you a spirit?
B/ Who does the soul belong to? Does it belong to man or it belongs to God?
C/ Who does the spirit belong to? Does it belong to man or it belongs to God?

Be prepared and ready to defend whatever answers you give, loll

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

Man is both a soul and a spirit.
The Bible talks of man becoming a living soul. We also learn about the spirit of man.
All we have belongs to God the creator

haddeylium:


I don't understand Hebrew either. That's why I asked you to make use dictionary and corcondance to aid your understanding of this polysemic word.
For example, the English word 'Iron' may have different meaning in different context. It could mean a type of metal, pressing Iron or even an element in chemistry.

When it comes to studying words found in the Bible, you also need to know the context in which the word appears and the meaning also.

I'll go over this to make sure you understand it.

WIND(John 3:

New International Version
The wind blows wherever it pleases-
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
The Spirit breathes where he will.

It takes deligent study to know that the context of Rau'ch /Pneuma is just the action of air in motion and not a personal force .

Life-force
It is the life force in all living creatures both humans and animal that energize or power them.(Genesis 7:22; Psalm 104:29; )
Ecclesiastes 3:19
for there is an outcome for humans and an outcome for animals; they all have the same outcome. As the one dies, so the other dies; and they all have but one spirit

So, it's the same impersonal life force(Spirit) that powers humans that also powers animals.


There are two nature. Physical being with physical body and spirit being with spirit/spiritual body.
There is no way someone can be both at a time.(Don't mistake it with other meanings of Spirit). Heavenly being and creatures are spirit being while earthy creatures are physical being.

'If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual one'(1cor 15:44)




Good that you aknowledge that Jesus didn't go to paradise that day.

The thief asked to be remembered “….when you come into your kingdom”, in other words at a later date. Jesus is saying “I will tell you now..”

“I tell you today, you will be with me in paradise.”

The comma has been put in the wrong place, reinforcing the translators’ view that Jesus went to heaven and that the thief went with him.

Jesus spent three days in the grave as the gospel accounts state.

Are you trying to rewrite the bible by moving a comma, Luke 23.43 Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”
Please let's not rewrite the holy scripture

tctrills:
[s]Man is both a soul and a spirit.
The Bible talks of man becoming a living soul. We also learn about the spirit of man.
All we have belongs to God the creator[/s]

Smh.

So, you just want to be impossible, by not answering the A, B and C questions. Right? loll.

The only place that an opportunity to learn cannot be found, is in a closed mind and one with preconceived ideas. It also cannot be found from a poster who habitually refuses to gives direct answers to questions put out. loll.

Please step out your closed in mind because there's plenty of room outside it, for you to fill out to, than ordinarily restricting yourself to the confined limits of your closed up mind. loll. Free yourself from your mind instead of holding and keeping yourself a prisoner of it, loll

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

NNTR:
Smh.

So, you just want to be impossible, by not answering the A, B and C questions. Right? loll.

The only place that an opportunity to learn cannot be found, is in a closed mind and one with preconceived ideas. It also cannot be found from a poster who habitually refuses to gives direct answers to questions put out. loll.

Please step out your closed in mind because there's plenty of room outside it, for you to fill out to, than ordinarily restricting yourself to the confined limits of your closed up mind. loll. Free yourself from your mind instead of holding and keeping yourself a prisoner of it, loll

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

I don't understand what you want. I have answered your questions. If you have a follow-up question lets have it. Or do you have something else in mind?

tctrills:
I don't understand what you want.

I dont want anything, what I need from you is to follow protocol, stay focus on what we are discussing, free up your mind and jettison all preconceived ideas not aligned with biblical truths and facts, loll. I believe all are achievable, if you rise up to the task.

The idea behind that, is so to keep track of your answer from easily identifying your answers and matching each with the question they 've responded to, loll.

tctrills:
I have answered your questions.

The questions were asked you in an A,B,C format, you did not give your answers back in the same A,B,C style

tctrills:
If you have a follow-up question lets have it.

If you refuse to give your answers back in the same in the same A,B,C style the questions were asked, how in the world would I possibly be able to follow up with different lines of enquiry questions. Erh?

tctrills:
Or do you have something else in mind?

I have a 1001 quite a lot else in mind, but you are creating a show stopper, an impasse as it were, by being impossible and not acting in accordance with simple protocols you're expected to follow, loll.

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

tctrills:

Man like Christ was first a spirit. Our spirits were with God. We are his spirit Children just like Christ but Christmas is the first born. The rest of us came after. When the bible talks of spirits in prison, it is talking about the spirits of man.
So if God is a spurit, man too is a spirit

I respect your personal opinion even though you can support it with the scriptures

tctrills:

I actually agree with you. Man, Jesus Christ and God the Father are all firstly spirit beings

Don't you see how contradictory this is, Seems you don't understand what spirit is in this context .

tctrills:

Are you trying to rewrite the bible by moving a comma, Luke 23.43 Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”
Please let's not rewrite the holy scripture

You that translation to explain your quote here

Christ told the thief on the cross 'today, you would be with me in paradise. We know the thief died. his body did not go to paradise. We know Christ was not lying

Rewrite the bible?
When I said you need a more deligent and extensive study, I meant it.
Festofost, the Bible text had no punctuation marks as we know them today, so the translators into English are the ones who decide where to put quotation marks, dashes, commas, and fullstops/periods based on their own discretion.

What we say about Luke 23:43 is that some translators put the comma in the wrong place, changing the meaning of what Jesus was saying.

Jesus was not saying “You will be with me today” because that day Jesus ended up in the grave, not in any Paradise as you rightly said

Jesus meant he was promising the man “today”- that very day- that one day in the future that man would be resurrected to live in Paradise.

Putting the comma in the correct place (after the word “today”) correctly conveys what Jesus meant and is therefore the more accurate translation.

Thanks for your time

haddeylium:


You that translation to explain your quote here



Rewrite the bible?
When I said you need a more deligent and extensive study, I meant it.
Festofost, the Bible text had no punctuation marks as we know them today, so the translators into English are the ones who decide where to put quotation marks, dashes, commas, and fullstops/periods based on their own discretion.

What we say about Luke 23:43 is that some translators put the comma in the wrong place, changing the meaning of what Jesus was saying.

Jesus was not saying “You will be with me today” because that day Jesus ended up in the grave, not in any Paradise as you rightly said

Jesus meant he was promising the man “today”- that very day- that one day in the future that man would be resurrected to live in Paradise.

Putting the comma in the correct place (after the word “today”) correctly conveys what Jesus meant and is therefore the more accurate translation.

Thanks for your time

So you are saying that there are many translations.. that I agree.. but then you decide to go with one translation over the other with no proof of its correctness just to justify your narrative?

tctrills:

Are you trying to rewrite the bible by moving a comma, Luke 23.43 Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”
Please let's not rewrite the holy scripture

Even though this is not the discuss of this thread.
But this error, intended or not, has confused people for thousands of years.
Have you heard others say after a person dies he/she is in heaven now? Thinking that a person dies and goes right to heaven.
So what would be the purpose of the resurrection on the last day if people were already resurrected?
Having the wrong idea of the resurrection breed this
.One of the requirements for eternal life is knowledge of Jehovah and Jesus. (John 17:3)

haddeylium:


Don't you see how contradictory this is, Seems you don't understand what spirit is in this context .

Explain what you mean

haddeylium:


I respect your personal opinion even though you can support it with the scriptures

But I can, I already presented Zachariah 12.1. That clearly tells us of the creation of our spirits. Let me know if that isn't enough. I could present more.

tctrills:

So you are saying that there are many translations.. that I agree.. but then you decide to go with one translation over the other with no proof of its correctness just to justify your narrative?

Ofcourse! Bible translator with religious dogma of going straight to heaven after death will rendered the translation you chose that way.

But does it answer your question here?

Christ told the thief on the cross 'today, you would be with me in paradise. We know the thief died. his body did not go to paradise. We know Christ was not lying

This is not a matter of following crowd but knowing and agreeing with what the bible really teaches