Kobojunkie:
1. In John 5 vs 19 - 29, Jesus Christ informs you that those in the grave will hear His voice and raised from the dead as a result. The same Jesus Christ then went on to explain to you in John 10 vs 14 - 29 that He is the good Shepherd and His sheep know His voice and respond to Him - implying that those who are not of His flock will not respond to His voice.

Matthew 25 vs 32 there clues you in to Jesus's Shepherd status as well when it speaks of Him separating the sheep and goats - 1 Shepherd, 1 flock.

John 10.27
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand
The sheep follow him not the goat. The goats disobey him, they do not follow him. They are not his flock. Anyone else thar hears his voice and follows is a sheep not a goat.

Kobojunkie:
So, you believe instead that the King described in Matthew 25 vs 31 - 46 prepared Hell, and can condemn devils and His angels as well as goats to eternal damnation in Hell but has no jurisdiction over Hell?

I gave you a very simple scripture in Luke 13:28

In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but yourselves being thrown out.
In the verse, who was Christ talking to? If you can answer this correctly that would end our argument.

tctrills:
1. The sheep and the goat are not of one flock. That is your personal opinion.

2. You asked a great question. Why God who raise Adam men from the grave. It's a very simple answer. Why do you think God would forgive you are raise you from the death. Remember, the wages of sin is death and all men have sinned.

3. But the answer is Jesus Christ. Through Adam, we all are sentenced to death and through Christ we are are ressurected. Isn't that what your bible says.

4. Remember Adam is not the only one that has committed sin, we all have. He is not the only one that was published with death, we all are. Hence if you are not surprised at your own ressurection, why are you shocked that Adam would be ressurected. Is it not the same God that created you two? Have you not committed sin just like him? Where you not also sentencedo to death just like him? If God can change his mind for you, then why not for Adam?

1.

2. What? I don't grasp what you mean by the statement in bold at all.

3. The answer to what exactly is Jesus Christ? So, even though Jesus Christ Himself said that only those who believe in Him will receive eternal life, you are stating here, against God Judgement(the condemnation of Sin aka Death) and against Jesus Christ(only those who believe will receive eternal life) , that all men, even those who died before Jesus Christ, including Adam, will be resurrected?

The above is what you believe your Bible tells you?

4. Adam was condemned by God to die. What you are insinuating is that God's judgement was halfwitted at best , rendering God and His judgment incompetent.

If we cannot trust God's judgment in the beginning, how can we trust His judgment to come described in Matthew 25 vs 31 - 46 & John 5 vs 19 - 29? What true hope do we have that God will not change His mind after all is said and done, if according to YOU, God rescinded His Word and judgment against Adam and mankind in the beginning?

Another problem is this. If God indeed recalled His judgement and curse in Genesis 3 vs 16 - 22 as you claim, why is there still suffering in the world? Why is childbirth still a thing of pain for women? Why do men still rule over wives in married? Why do we stil work and sweat to feed ourselves?

Or did you really think God's judgment only had to do with what happens when we die?

Where you under the illusion that Jesus Christ only came to save those who believe in Him from Death ? He came to save us instead from the curse all of which culminates in Death.

Kobojunkie:
1.

2. What? I don't grasp what you mean by the statement in bold at all.

3. The answer to what exactly is Jesus Christ? So, even though Jesus Christ Himself said that only those who believe in Him will receive eternal life, you are stating here, against God Judgement(the condemnation of Sin aka Death) and against Jesus Christ(only those who believe will receive eternal life) , that all men, even those who died before Jesus Christ, including Adam, will be resurrected?

The above is what you believe your Bible tells you?

4. Adam was condemned by God to die. What you are insinuating is that God's judgement was halfwitted at best , rendering God and His judgment incompetent.

If we cannot trust God's judgment in the beginning, how can we trust His judgment to come described in Matthew 25 vs 31 - 46 & John 5 vs 19 - 29? What true hope do we have that God will not change His mind after all is said and done, if according to YOU, God rescinded His Word and judgment against Adam and mankind in the beginning?

Another problem is this. If God indeed recalled His judgement and curse in Genesis 3 vs 16 - 22 as you claim, why is there still suffering in the world? Why is childbirth still a thing of pain for women? Why do men still rule over wives in married? Why do we stil work and sweat to feed ourselves?

Or did you really think God's judgment only had to do with what happens when we die?

Where you under the illusion that Jesus Christ only came to save those who believe in Him from Death ? He came to save us instead from the curse all of which culminates in Death.

Let me answer your questions according to the numbers.starting from number 4
4. You say..4. Adam was condemned by God to die. What you are insinuating is that God's judgement was halfwitted at best , rendering God and His judgment incompetent[color=#770077][/color]
Not only Adam, but all mankind where condemned to die.
So if you believe you can be saved even after God has condemned all mankind, why do you think Adam is different? Do you understand me now?

Kobojunkie:
1. The earth and sea gave up its dead.... does not imply all those who died since Adam will be raised or are even raisable. Recall God’s judgement as pronounced in Genesis 3 vs 16 - 22, was not meant as a semi-final judgement of some sort. No, it was God's final judgement for the unbelievers, and nowhere in scripture was this judgement reversed by God, or Jesus Christ.

So to assert that all those who perished in the grave would be raised back into existence, to be judged again by God, is to suggest His first judgement failed, rendering God's Word void and God a failure. :-

2. Let's try to keep from deviating here, shall we? The point is Paul's claim in verse 22 he clarified in verse 23 as meaning that those who belong to Jesus Christ will be raised. This instead of your original claim which was that all those who ever died since the time of Adam will be raised.

3. Regarding what is written there in John 5 vs 19 - 29, the same Jesus Christ goes on to tell you in the passage below...
... that it is His sheep that will hear His voice and respond.

4. Matthew 25 vs 40 - 46 - the wicked refers to those in His flock who refuse to obey him, the goats in His flock

5. Jesus Christ made it more than clear through several parables as well, that it is those who belong in His flock, all those who believe in Him - they have eternal life as a result - will be raised by Him in the end.

How do you understand Revelations 21.8
But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.

tctrills:
I gave you a very simple scripture in Luke 13:28

In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but yourselves being thrown out.
In the verse, who was Christ talking to? If you can answer this correctly that would end our argument.

Again, always pay attention to context....

22 Jesus was teaching in every town and village. He continued to travel toward Jerusalem.
23 Someone said to him, “Lord, how many people will be saved? Only a few?”

Jesus said,
24 “The door to heaven is narrow. Try hard to enter it. Many people will want to enter there, but they will not be able to go in.
25 If a man locks the door of his house, you can stand outside and knock on the door, but he won’t open it. You can say, ‘Sir, open the door for us.’ But he will answer, ‘I don’t know you. Where did you come from?’
26 Then you will say, ‘We ate and drank with you. You taught in the streets of our town.’
27 Then he will say to you, ‘I don’t know you. Where did you come from? Get away from me! You are all people who do wrong!’

28 “You will see Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and all the prophets in God’s kingdom. But you will be left outside. There you will cry and grind your teeth with pain.
29 People will come from the east, west, north, and south. They will sit down at the table in God’s kingdom.
30 People who have the lowest place in life now will have the highest place in God’s kingdom. And people who have the highest place now will have the lowest place in God’s kingdom.” - Luke 13 vs 22 - 30

Jesus Christ was in verse 28 speaking of the fate that awaited those who don't enter the Kingdom of God through the narrow Gate that leads to Heaven .

See where He starts in verse 24? Read what is says there. Heaven is a Domain inside of the Kingdom of God. So also is Hell.

Kobojunkie:
Again, always pay attention to context....

Jesus Christ was in verse 28 speaking of the fate that awaited those who don't enter the Kingdom of God through the narrow Gate that leads to Heaven .

See where He starts in verse 24? Read what is says there. Heaven is a Domain inside of the Kingdom of God. So also is Hell.

Short answer, he was replying the Jews who were not of his flock. Do you get it now?

tctrills:

Let me answer your questions according to the numbers.starting from number 4
4. You say..4. Adam was condemned by God to die. What you are insinuating is that God's judgement was halfwitted at best , rendering God and His judgment incompetent[color=#770077][/color]
Not only Adam, but all mankind where condemned to die.
So if you believe you can be saved even after God has condemned all mankind, why do you think Adam is different? Do you understand me now?

Adam is dead. He died long before even Jesus Christ showed up so no such thing as Salvation from God's judgement was available for him to take advantage of.

All those who are dead have no more hope....since once dead, they cease to exist. Only the living have hope of salvation through Jesus Christ. Even at that, according to Jesus Christ, only the living who believe in Him have hope of salvation from the condemnation of Sin aka Death through Jesus Christ- John 3 vs 16 - 21

tctrills:

Short answer, he was replying the Jews who were not of his flock. Do you get it now?

No he was not!

Read the passage for the answers for Pete's sake. The man who asked Jesus Christ the question may have in fact been a believer.

Kobojunkie:
Adam is dead. He died long before even Jesus Christ showed up so no such thing as Salvation from God's judgement was available for him to take advantage of.

All those who are dead have no more hope....since once dead, they cease to exist. Only the living have hope of salvation through Jesus Christ. Even at that, according to Jesus Christ, only the living who believe in Him have hope of salvation from the condemnation of Sin aka Death through Jesus Christ- John 3 vs 16 - 21

Abraham died before Christ also. Christ sacrifice has the power to save everyone since the creation of the world. Christmas did not come to save only those born after him

Kobojunkie:
No he was not!

Read the passage for the answers for Pete's sake. The man who asked Jesus Christ the question may have in fact been a believer.

I totally disagree. He was teaching on the streets and he was talking about those who don't believe him

tctrills:

How do you understand Revelations 21.8
But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.

John probably considered God's judgment as described in Genesis 3 vs 16 - 22 the First Death. Whereas God's Judgement to come as described in Matthew 25 vs 41 - 46 the Second Death

tctrills:

I totally disagree. He was teaching on the streets and he was talking about those who don't believe him

Read the passage again. You are not told that the question was asked by an unbelieving Jew. Instead you are told that someone asked Jesus Christ how many people would be saved. That question likely came from one who believed in Jesus Christ.

Now, Jesus Christ's response, in verse 28 was not directed at the one who asked the question but instead at those who don't enter into the Kingdom through the narrow Gate that leads to Heaven.

Kobojunkie:
Read the passage again. You are not told that the question was asked by an unbelieving Jew. Instead you are told that someone asked Jesus Christ how many people would be saved.

It never said it was a believer and you need to understand who Christ was addressing. He was talking to the jews

Kobojunkie:
Read the passage again. You are not told that the question was asked by an unbelieving Jew. Instead you are told that someone asked Jesus Christ how many people would be saved. That question likely came from one who believed in Jesus Christ.

Now, Jesus Christ's response, in verse 28 was not directed at the one who asked the question but instead at those who don't enter into the Kingdom through the narrow Gate that leads to Heaven.

Yea according to you, there are 2 ways to the kingdom but not according to the bible. The broad way does not lead to God's kingdom, it leads to destruction

tctrills:

Abraham died before Christ also. Christ sacrifice has the power to save everyone since the creation of the world. Christmas did not come to save only those born after him

Abraham was not saved by Jesus Christ. Instead Abraham, like Abel, and Noah before Him, was saved by the fact that He trusted and obeyed God's commandments and statutes. - Genesis 26 vs 5

Jesus Christ came to save the living... not the dead.

Kobojunkie:
Abraham was not saved by Jesus Christ. Instead Abraham, like Abel, and Noah before Him, was saved by the fact that He trusted and obeyed God's commandments and statutes. - Genesis 26 vs 5

Jesus Christ came to save the living... not the dead.

Then, we don't need Jesus according to you since all you need is to trust in God to be saved. You are simply saying all those from the days of Adam did not need Jesus to be saved.
Then how come Christ is the first fruit of the grave. Why didn't Abraham save himself from the grave?
What was the purpose of sending Christ if people could gain salvation without him?

Kobojunkie:
Abraham was not saved by Jesus Christ. Instead Abraham, like Abel, and Noah before Him, was saved by the fact that He trusted and obeyed God's commandments and statutes. - Genesis 26 vs 5

Jesus Christ came to save the living... not the dead.

Again is Abraham, Abell and Noah are saved from their sins how come Adam can't be saved from his or where they sinless?

tctrills:

Then, we don't need Jesus according to you since all you need is to trust in God to be saved. You are simply saying all those from the days of Adam did not need Jesus to be saved.
Then how come Christ is the first fruit of the grave. Why didn't Abraham save himself from the grave?
What was the purpose of sending Christ if people could gain salvation without him?

The question you ought to have asked instead was what was Abraham saved from? Abel, Noah, and Abraham were all granted eternal life -grace - by God because they trusted in and obeyed His commandments and statutes which He gave to them. Though they died as righteous men, none of them died as Sons of God nor were did they receive the promise of Heaven.

Salvation which we obtain Jesus Christ however, not only gifts us with eternal life simply for believing in Him, those who trust and obey Him, God's Truth, are set free from bondage to sin aka the curse itself by the Truth, and raised as Sons of God - John 8 vs 31 - 34 - Holy and acceptable vessels worthy to broach the very presence of God.

tctrills:
Again is Abraham, Abell and Noah are saved from their sins how come Adam can't be saved from his or where they sinless?

Adam did not obey God's commandments and statutes.

tctrills:
with the bible, you don't assume, you believe what you are told. If the bible says all those in the grave would come forth, you believe it simple. Don't add or subtract remember

Well, I never said I didn't believe that all those in the grave will come forth. I instead understand who they are and who they aren't.

There who no longer exist aka perished in the grave will not be there. Instead, only those who have eternal life and sleep in the grave will be.

Kobojunkie:
Well, I never said I didn't believe that all those in the grave will come forth. I instead understand who they are and who they aren't.

There who no longer exist aka perished in the grave will not be there. Instead, only those who have eternal life and sleep in the grave will be.

where was it writen that they varnished. Are you saying that if an unbelieverror is buried, he would vanish from the grave

Kobojunkie:
Adam did not obey God's commandments and statutes.

All have sinned not only Adam so if Abraham can be saved, why not Adam.

Kobojunkie:
The question you ought to have asked instead was what was Abraham saved from? Abel, Noah, and Abraham were all granted eternal life -grace - by God because they trusted in and obeyed His commandments and statutes which He gave to them. Though they died as righteous men, none of them died as Sons of God nor were did they receive the promise of Heaven.

Salvation which we obtain Jesus Christ however, not only gifts us with eternal life simply for believing in Him, those who trust and obey Him, God's Truth, are set free from bondage to sin aka the curse itself by the Truth, and raised as Sons of God - John 8 vs 31 - 34 - Holy and acceptable vessels worthy to broach the very presence of God.

You mean Abraham is not a son of God? And he is under the bond age of sin? Explain.

Kobojunkie:
The question you ought to have asked instead was what was Abraham saved from? Abel, Noah, and Abraham were all granted eternal life -grace - by God because they trusted in and obeyed His commandments and statutes which He gave to them. Though they died as righteous men, none of them died as Sons of God nor were did they receive the promise of Heaven.

Salvation which we obtain Jesus Christ however, not only gifts us with eternal life simply for believing in Him, those who trust and obey Him, God's Truth, are set free from bondage to sin aka the curse itself by the Truth, and raised as Sons of God - John 8 vs 31 - 34 - Holy and acceptable vessels worthy to broach the very presence of God.

What if I show you verses in the bible where God refered to many of the people of old as his sons would that satisfy you?

tctrills:
where was it writen that they varnished. Are you saying that if an unbelieverror is buried, he would vanish from the grave

For the umpteenth time, try to understand the meaning of God's curse and judgement on mankind before you continue.

Kobojunkie:
For the umpteenth time, try to understand the meaning of God's curse and judgement on mankind before you continue.

God never cursed man to varnish from the grave. The curse was that man would die hence we all die

tctrills:

All have sinned not only Adam so if Abraham can be saved, why not Adam.

Pay attention.. Abraham was saved from perishing in the grave because he, Abraham, chose to trust and obey God.

Adam chose not to believe God at all and was condemned as a result.

tctrills:

You mean Abraham is not a son of God? And he is under the bond age of sin? Explain.

It is as explained.

tctrills:
What if I show you verses in the bible where God refered to many of the people of old as his sons would that satisfy you?

Ok.

Kobojunkie:
It is as explained.

I would list verses where God declared people in the old testament to be his sons because nothing you say is in the bible.
Exodus 4:22-23
Then you shall say to Pharaoh, ‘Thus says the Lord, “Israel is My son, My firstborn. So I said to you, ‘Let My son go that he may serve Me’; but you have refused to let him go. Behold, I will kill your son, your firstborn.

1 Chronicles 22:10
He shall build a house for My name, and he shall be My son and I will be his father; and I will establish the throne of his kingdom over Israel forever.’

Hosea 1:10

Yet the number of the sons of Israel
Will be like the sand of the sea,
Which cannot be measured or numbered;
And in the place
Where it is said to them,
“You are not My people,”
It will be said to them,

Even before the birth of Christ, God has chosen men to be his sons including Abraham.
“You are the sons of the living God.

Kobojunkie:
Pay attention.. Abraham was saved from perishing in the grave because he, Abraham, chose to trust and obey God.

Adam chose not to believe God at all and was condemned as a result.

You are now Adams judge? It was never written that Adam was an unbeliever. You need to stop saying what you don't know. You don't know Anything about Adams life out of the garden so take it easy with him.