My mum still is one of the millions influenced by Kumuyi of Deeper Life Church. Though I am today an ECKist (student of ECKANKAR), I still put in an ear in the Church. After all, it is where it all began in this life time--my very own personal search for Truth or God.

Kumuyi had his followers believe they are sinners for wearing earrings amongst other beliefs. His motivation for outlawing earrings? He said it was because some folks back in the day in Israel removed their earnings and ornaments, melted them into a calf for worship.

As a kid, it beats me even now how this was the reason a present day people would stop wearing earrings. I thought going by that analogy, we could do away with several other things like having nothing to do with Egypt, Arabs, women (Eve), second borns (Cain), Wear no shoes, Sunday service, Neckties, etc.

Being a son of one, l could say a Deeper Life person and the likes (Chosen, etc) sees the other Christian same way Arab Muslims perceive their black counterparts or how a Hausa Muslim perceives a Yoruba Muslim--with condescension

You could see this on the thread here on Nairaland the names the protesting guy called the musicians from another kind of church. We call this 'spiritual arrogance' where I learn. The perpetrator is actually flouting one of the law of Love " its not puffed up, does not raise it self above the other..." But these guys do not look beyond their noses because that's the very sauce that makes their 'Holiness' feel and seem right.

The question is, Kumuyi who you followed into not entertaining other kinds of Christians, music and way of life into your midst now says entertain them, are you so indoctrinated to not change? Yes, because all the while, it is Kumuyi you followed.

Fact check: Had he allowed this from the beginning, it would have seem and felt scriptural for you. You would have even located a scriptural backing for that.

The thing is: the wind of change is blowing. Remain stiff and loose your ligaments and joints. Things are going to change in religion due to "breeze blowing open the chicken's behind" so much that most beliefs are going to go. The world is indeed going to witness strange phenomena...

Kumuyi like everyone of us is work in progress. Most Christians especially and unfortunately wrote the path to God on stone leading to spiritual crystallises. By this, I mean they feel all they know is all that there is and there is no room for change. This is Death if you are not open to change.

Kumuyi should be given a path on the shoulder for being that bold for an person he is. He had lead people a path that isn't really to the good of their spiritual life and is being bold to make a change. What is that path not good for them? The idea that feeling of being uptight, stiff, mortifying the flesh and self-denial is Righteousness.

As an ECKists, l would say Righteousness and Holiness are aftermaths of Realizations or real-life experience rather than beliefs of the many levels of what the church calls the Holy Spirit. That person would normally mingle and give Love to ALL creatures of God and see them for what they ALL no matter their religion or lack of it. That is righteousness!

My personal views.

The pastors below him feel they "know more than him" now. When the leader you've been following for years now says there's a new direction, as far as he is not saying Jesus did not die on the cross, nothing stops you from obeying him.

This kumuyis issue should be a case study.
Sincerely I would ask one question does truth change?
I was a member for years and I hasld issues with doctrines of the church.
My dad has to sell his television because it was seen as evil. You can't be a leader in the church if you had one, I wished my dad was alive now I would have made him read this thing now because it was an issue with him and I ( May God rest his soul).

Just like one person sadi in another thread l, he is re-strategizing not to be left behind.
I ask another question what of those that were mislead with the doctrine how do you correct that?

Until people realise that God poured His spirit on all men and no one should hold you bounded the better it will be.

His members seems to be getting wiser and he does not want to lose them so he has to adapt if not o come would reduce and it would be a problem naturally.

sexy74:
Just like one person sadi in another thread l, he is re-strategizing not to be left behind.
1. I ask another question what of those that were mislead with the doctrine how do you correct that?
Until people realise that God poured His spirit on all men and no one should hold you bounded the better it will be.

2. His members seems to be getting wiser and he does not want to lose them so he has to adapt if not o come would reduce and it would be a problem naturally.

1. That is the major question all of those blinded by these mogs refuse to broach because broaching the topic would shatter everything they have ever believed of these men and of God.

The doctrines and traditions taught by these men and their churches are ever changing, yet Jesus Christ made it known to us that His Law - His teachings and commandments - will never change. So why people continue to put their trust in the ever changing words of these mogs - false teachers and false prophets by Jesus Christ's standard, I don't understood.

2. You claim his members are getting wiser but I believe that to be far from true since all they seem to be agitating for is for the old way, the same way their mog no longer believes in.

Here to learn...

chieveboy:


Kumuyi should be given a pat on the shoulder for being that bold for an person he is.

On the contrary, Kumuyi should be rightly condemned by those he took for a ride all these years. He’s not going back to his vomit for altruistic reasons, rather it is for the preservation and perpetuation of his church.

The conman having realized that his church is loosing the youths- who are the future of the church- to other churches decided to follow the market trends. First was permitting the so-called devil’s box and now musicians. The compromise has started and soon enough, their ladies will be allowed to wear trousers(those in the West are already allowed that privilege btw) and wear jewelry.

Ola17:


On the contrary, Kumuyi should be rightly condemned by those he took for a ride all these years. He’s not going back to his vomit for altruistic reasons, rather it is for the preservation and perpetuation of his church.

The conman having realized that his church is loosing the youths- who are the future of the church- to other churches decided to follow the market trends. First was permitting the so-called devil’s box and now musicians. The compromise has started and soon enough, their ladies will be allowed to wear trousers(those in the West are already allowed that privilege btw) and wear jewelry.

I wouldn't call him con man, just a Soul learning the ropes on Truth. Although 'innocent evils' or half truths tend to be more dangerous.

chieveboy:
I wouldn't call him con man, just a Soul learning the ropes on Truth. Although 'innocent evils' or half truths tend to be more dangerous.

Learning the ropes by experimenting with the eternity of other souls?

Is there innocence to any evil perpetrated by man against their fellow men?

Can a half-truth amount to anything short of a lie?

Kobojunkie:
Learning the ropes by experimenting with the eternity of other souls?

Is there innocence to any evil perpetrated by man against their fellow men?

Can a half-truth amount to anything short of a lie?

That's what l said all the while that his actions lead to spiritual crystallises. A state of hardening of the heart and mind where there is strong resistance to Love, change and growth.

This is akin to spiritual death and he can only a make bold to retrace his steps and he be commended for it because not everyone is that humble.

It is safe to say such people reincarnate again after working out the karmic effects of having a restrictive mind, coming out as dwarfs or extremely thin people (reflecting the limitive mindset) in very restrictive countries like North Korea all in a bid to repay the freedom they denied many.

This leaves a bitter taste in their subconscious which the carry to another lifetime and wanting nothing to do with such kind of thinking that lead them to the Deeperlife kind.
After several incarnations, they wind up with liberal sermons like Pastor Chris or so.

Isn't this how the doctors of today are made, from killers to those being killed "for no reason" and eventually to savers of life in further lifetimes?

This is our collective stories. This is why I said he should not be condemned for All of us have done worst, worked and are still working it out as our destinies today.

sexy74:
This kumuyis issue should be a case study.
Sincerely I would ask one question does truth change?

The problem Kumuyi is having presently is inevitable because the foundation of the church was faulty.
When Jesus returned in the year 1914 there were many religious groups claiming Christians with contradicting teachings and conflicting doctrines but none of them had the mind of Christ {1Corinthians 2:16} the religious bodies that could have won Christ's love are those whose overseers are like a body not one man's church {Proverbs 15:22} but all those having such bodies have so much developed their doctrines on falsehood to the point of no return. The Roman Catholic, Anglican and many others have teamed up as denominations none of them wants to be mocked for making amendments in their teachings so Jesus' statement back in in first century came to reality the type of FAITH God's Son commissioned back then is no more on this planet! Luke 18:8
So Jesus began visiting different groups of people and then he found a group that called themselves "The International Bible Students Association" headed by one Pastor Charles Taze Russell. This group are researchers working on truth they are able to discover through their diligent study of God's word but there is a problem: they all depended on whatever Charles Taze Russell concluded during their research!
That's why Jesus calmly worked with them for some time until the death of Russell two years later.
Then who will lead this group? There was some struggling between those taking the lead in this group and they have to go to court then a winner emerged in the name of "Joseph Rutherford" all these is unchristian so Jesus allowed the head of this group and his cohorts undergo the test of FAITH. They were arrested and sentenced to jail that same year!
But after three years the court decided that there's no substance reason to jail them and they were released. Surely Jesus was the one behind such a punishment not the American authorities that has signed up for FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION, SPEECH AND WORSHIP!

So how come this group later became the world's number one organization of zealous preachers and industrious teachers of God's word having millions of fully competent and completely equipped Bible scholars?

I'll explain later!

After their three years in prison nobody could expect Rutherford and his team to come out and continue their work but to the shock of everyone, immediately as they were released they ordered all their members to start a global preaching and teaching campaign that will be carried out from house to house and door to door!
They weren't ready to give in to intimidation of any kind rather they spontaneously swing into action and began correcting all their past errors from the year 1919.
Today it's over 100 years now when Rutherford and his team began this global preaching campaign and what has been the changes?
They have removed all traces of Catholic teachings like the immortality of the soul, Hellfire, Trinity, All good people will make heaven, Sole leadership in religious groups and pagan customs like New year, Christmas, Easter, Birthdays and many more.
Today they have a group of overseers unlike when they began that Charles Taze Russell was their sole pastor.
That's why Jesus keep working with them and they're making improvements because Jesus promised:

"For where there are two or three gathered together in my name, there I am in their midst.” Matthew 18:20

Jesus will never come into a gathering of imperfect humans where each person is after his/her own selfish cravings, his presence means those gathered are thinking of how to go about the work he commissioned {Matthew 28:18-20} only this group gathers for this purpose that's why Jesus keeps supporting them to make progress in gathering zealous and industrious disciples who are ready to avail themselves for the work!

Kumuyi is still doing like Charles Taze Russell who died 106 years ago instead of joining the global campaigners of God's Kingdom he thought he could gather followers and make them active preachers like Jehovah's Witnesses.

After Jesus has explained what is expected of his Apostles to achieve globally they were astonished and screamed "if this is what people must do, then who can be saved?"

Jesus replied:

“With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” Matthew 19:26

So any sect that's not having the backup of God's Holy Spirit may flourish for some time but it will never meet up with the requirements Jesus gave his disciples. John 15:4-6
Kumuyi have tried but it's not his fault if God's Holy Spirit is not working with his plan it is bound to fail!

chieveboy:
1. This is akin to spiritual death and he can only a make bold to retrace his steps and he be commended for it because not everyone is that humble.

2. It is safe to say such people reincarnate again after working out the karmic effects of having a restrictive mind, coming out as dwarfs or extremely thin people (reflecting the limitive mindset) in very restrictive countries like North Korea all in a bid to repay the freedom they denied many.

This leaves a bitter taste in their subconscious which the carry to another lifetime and wanting nothing to do with such kind of thinking that lead them to the Deeperlife kind.
After several incarnations, they wind up with liberal sermons like Pastor Chris or so.

Isn't this how the doctors of today are made, from killers to those being killed "for no reason" and eventually to savers of life in further lifetimes?

This is our collective stories. This is why I said he should not be condemned for All of us have done worst, worked and are still working it out as our destinies today.

1. There is no such thing as spiritual death this since spirits don't die.

Also you claim this man, after experimenting with the souls and eternities of millions can retrace himself and be commended by it, I ask how and by whom?

2. That is balderdash as far as biblical scripture which the man and his followers claim to believe in..

Kobojunkie:
1. There is no such thing as spiritual death this since spirits don't die.

Also you claim this man, after experimenting with the souls and eternities of millions can retrace himself and be commended by it, I ask how and by whom?

2. That is balderdash as far as biblical scripture which the man and his followers claim to believe in..

sorry Bots banned me from replying earlier...

1. There is no such thing as spiritual death this since spirits don't die.

Sure, spirit does not die. You will notice l also mentioned "spiritual crystallises", that's the death we are talking about. A state where you are not open to change as brought about by the Holy Spirit which may even go against written scripture.

We know there are laws that supersedes lots of scripture. An example is the Jews and Jesus plucking corn or so to eat on a Sabbath. The Jews are crystallized on scripture.... That's spiritual death.

You can see how sad most of these holiness peeps are, I have been with plenty of them. If a 'Chosen' or Deeper Life person for instance have their way, they would burn most people in hell themselves. We know the resentment, vile they harbour while judging and condemning is akin to witchcraft. It does same damage owing to the subtle constitution of man.

Also you claim this man, after experimenting with the souls and eternities of millions can retrace himself and be commended by it, I ask how and by whom?

Lol, you have to understanding that religious doctrines operate in a closed-loop manner. No room for change, input or upgrade. If an icon like Mohammed, Jesus Kumuyi told their contemporaries to wear only shorts due to reasons of the time, they follow it non-stop even if the condition ceased... You can broaden the occurrence of this phenomenon across lots of doctrines found today which they feel is "Holiness".

Why is this worth commending? Ha! its a miracle! Coming from a rigid and myopic point of view that formed the 'Deeper Life Outlook and Perception', its huge, it may reverberate across the compound that houses MummyGO and the likes as they begin to see the folly in their belief system. Poverty has a way of making subscribers of people told they are messed up because of an angry God.

sexy74:
This kumuyis issue should be a case study.
Sincerely I would ask one question does truth change?
I was a member for years and I hasld issues with doctrines of the church.
My dad has to sell his television because it was seen as evil. You can't be a leader in the church if you had one, I wished my dad was alive now I would have made him read this thing now because it was an issue with him and I ( May God rest his soul).

Just like one person sadi in another thread l, he is re-strategizing not to be left behind.
I ask another question what of those that were mislead with the doctrine how do you correct that?

Until people realise that God poured His spirit on all men and no one should hold you bounded the better it will be.

His members seems to be getting wiser and he does not want to lose them so he has to adapt if not o come would reduce and it would be a problem naturally.

You see in every dispensation, there are people who have wild thoughts, imagination and perception. Not all where able to form a movement out of that, Kumuyi though successfully did.

At the time he formed his wild doctrines, he was at a stage in his spiritual growth (just as we all are). Like everything that grows, it must experience change and its why I give kudos to him for responding to change unlike you find in other rigid outdated religions and doctrines.

Look at the TV set of the 90s compared with those of today. They changed. Run away from any scripture, doctrine, ideology that is not living.

MaxInDHouse:
After their three years in prison nobody could expect Rutherford and his team to come out and continue their work but to the shock of everyone, immediately as they were released they ordered all their members to start a global preaching and teaching campaign that will be carried out from house to house and door to door!
They weren't ready to give in to intimidation of any kind rather they spontaneously swing into action and began correcting all their past errors from the year 1919.
Today it's over 100 years now when Rutherford and his team began this global preaching campaign and what has been the changes?
They have removed all traces of Catholic teachings like the immortality of the soul, Hellfire, Trinity, All good people will make heaven, Sole leadership in religious groups and pagan customs like New year, Christmas, Easter, Birthdays and many more.
Today they have a group of overseers unlike when they began that Charles Taze Russell was their sole pastor.
That's why Jesus keep working with them and they're making improvements because Jesus promised:

"For where there are two or three gathered together in my name, there I am in their midst.” Matthew 18:20

Jesus will never come into a gathering of imperfect humans where each person is after his/her own selfish cravings, his presence means those gathered are thinking of how to go about the work he commissioned {Matthew 28:18-20} only this group gathers for this purpose that's why Jesus keeps supporting them to make progress in gathering zealous and industrious disciples who are ready to avail themselves for the work!

Kumuyi is still doing like Charles Taze Russell who died 106 years ago instead of joining the global campaigners of God's Kingdom he thought he could gather followers and make them active preachers like Jehovah's Witnesses.

After Jesus has explained what is expected of his Apostles to achieve globally they were astonished and screamed "if this is what people must do, then who can be saved?"

Jesus replied:

“With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” Matthew 19:26

So any sect that's not having the backup of God's Holy Spirit may flourish for some time but it will never meet up with the requirements Jesus gave his disciples. John 15:4-6
Kumuyi have tried but it's not his fault if God's Holy Spirit is not working with his plan it is bound to fail!

I would not say he failed. On the Holy Spirit being or not being with Kumuyi's institution, I would beg to differ on that. As a student of the Holy Spirit myself, you find there is no venture that is not enabled by whatever the church calls "Holy Spirit" no matter how crude or degenerate. Yes!

Its in everything. The difference is in the vibrations. I could suggest you look into other fields of Physics. Physicist are gaining more ground on the subject of the Holy spirit though under different nomenclature.

chieveboy:


I would not say he failed. On the Holy Spirit being or not being with Kumuyi's institution, I would beg to differ on that. As a student of the Holy Spirit myself, you find there is no venture that is not enabled by whatever the church calls "Holy Spirit" no matter how crude or degenerate. Yes!

Its in everything. The difference is in the vibrations. I could suggest you look into other fields of Physics. Physicist are gaining more ground on the subject of the Holy spirit though under different nomenclature.

Of course no imperfect humans will get everything correct when dealing with God's active force but their achievements will prove that they're dealing with a higher intelligent Being!

chieveboy:
sorry Bots banned me from replying earlier...

1. Sure, spirit does not die. You will notice l also mentioned "spiritual crystallises", that's the death we are talking about. A state where you are not open to change as brought about by the Holy Spirit which may even go against written scripture.

2. We know there are laws that supersedes lots of scripture. An example is the Jews and Jesus plucking corn or so to eat on a Sabbath. The Jews are crystallized on scripture.... That's spiritual death.

3. You can see how sad most of these holiness peeps are, I have been with plenty of them. If a 'Chosen' or Deeper Life person for instance have their way, they would burn most people in hell themselves. We know the resentment, vile they harbour while judging and condemning is akin to witchcraft. It does same damage owing to the subtle constitution of man.

Lol, you have to understanding that religious doctrines operate in a closed-loop manner. No room for change, input or upgrade. If an icon like Mohammed, Jesus Kumuyi told their contemporaries to wear only shorts due to reasons of the time, they follow it non-stop even if the condition ceased... You can broaden the occurrence of this phenomenon across lots of doctrines found today which they feel is "Holiness".

4. Why is this worth commending? Ha! its a miracle! Coming from a rigid and myopic point of view that formed the 'Deeper Life Outlook and Perception', its huge, it may reverberate across the compound that houses MummyGO and the likes as they begin to see the folly in their belief system. Poverty has a way of making subscribers of people told they are messed up because of an angry God.

1. What you describe is a result of sin and not unique in any way to some. When a heart chooses to live in disobedience, blindness sets it as described several times in Jesus Christ's teachings. There is no death but a shifting instead from Truth to Lies and deceit. The more they feed on the lies, they became blind to the truth, nullifying the power of the word of God in their lives as a result.

2. There are no laws that supersede scripture as you claim. All of God's Laws even the one that allows for eating, saving lost animals, healing and helping those in need, all on the Sabbath day are contained right there in scripture. God said to do no work on the Sabbath but He never said they shouldn't do good on the Sabbath day.

3. These churches or cult define their form of holiness by man-made ideas, not according to God's standard as given to us by Jesus Christ, God's very own New Covenant Law in the Kingdom of God. That is what makes them sad. The lies they are ruled by is reason why they remain blind to the Truth of God, Jesus Christ.

4. Why is his shifting from one lie to another to be construed as a miracle? The businesss man is simply changing his business model to suit the times he is in? I mean the church business has also adopted the use of such platforms such as Zoom! for both regular and crusade meetings, Is that also to be termed a miracle?

chieveboy:
You see in every dispensation, there are people who have wild thoughts, imagination and perception. Not all where able to form a movement out of that, Kumuyi though successfully did.

At the time he formed his wild doctrines, he was at a stage in his spiritual growth (just as we all are). Like everything that grows, it must experience change and its why I give kudos to him for responding to change unlike you find in other rigid outdated religions and doctrines.

Look at the TV set of the 90s compared with those of today. They changed. Run away from any scripture, doctrine, ideology that is not living.

In exactly what stage of his "spiritual growth" is he in abeg?

His church's doctrines and traditions have changed numerous times in the last 4 decades, this while not even a jot of God's Law, Jesus Christ, has changed in the last 2000 years, so what makes you continue to pretend you have this figured out in a God-related way?

chieveboy:
1. I would not say he failed. On the Holy Spirit being or not being with Kumuyi's institution, I would beg to differ on that. As a student of the Holy Spirit myself, you find there is no venture that is not enabled by whatever the church calls "Holy Spirit" no matter how crude or degenerate. Yes!

2. Its in everything. The difference is in the vibrations. I could suggest you look into other fields of Physics. Physicist are gaining more ground on the subject of the Holy spirit though under different nomenclature.

1. Could you please explain the statement in bold abeg?

2. So what you are here insinuating is that everything is Holy,this since you claim the Holy Spirit is in everything - the Holy Spirit according to scripture only lives in that which is Holy/Perfect, in direct compliance with God's Law and blueprint?

1

Kobojunkie:
Could you please explain the statement in bold abeg?

What the church calls "Holy Spirit" (HS) is the fabric that enables and sustains creation or manifestation. If reality is a painting, The HS is the canvas. The cosmology is like this:

The HS emanates from a central source which humans label 'God'. This is equal to Divine Love (Love without strings attached) By "God", I am not talking about the ones that "made men in their image" who hard favourite tribes and so on. I mean the Supreme Being.

For the Created Worlds to become, this HS forks into two primal streams of Positive and Negative forces and at the same time steps down the quality and immensity of this power. This gave birth to the world's of duality or creation where everything is made possible by its opposite. A recursion of it this is in Electricity with its Positive and Negative poles Male/female, Up/down, Mountain/valley. None can exist in without the other as far as the lower worlds are concerned. All thanks to this twinity of the HS at a particular point of issuance from the source.

From this two primal forces is everything made and sustained. Think it like the clay...If something of coarse nature is to be created or more appropriately said: Manifested, this force would have to be stepped down in vibration and a human would see, touch and feel it. Does this sounds like the HS is Atom? Yes it is, just in a lower state. Physicists have established that the forces that brings about the existence of an atom or matter is non-local, meaning it is not in our space-time. Quantum Physics.

You may ask then that how about miracles and so on where people experience the HS and so on. This force actually is Consciousness itself and it is God stepped down. Notice how nature makes beautiful things on earth which are child's play compared to those found in other planets and dimensions. It is (the) 'Information' that morphs into 'presentation' templates...

Experiencers may view the HS in its higher or purer form and not be able to put it in words. Mozart experienced the HS as music (sound) and wrote his symphonies which sounded great even though not presented exactly. Healing is merely the reformation into original vibration of anything while disease is the opposite.

The goal is to contact this force at its higher manifestations which is seen as light or heard as sound. Light and sound are the foundation fabric of atom, Matter, energy, etc so to speak. It is the seed of genius and much much more. Intelligence, Information, Light, electricity, lightning etc are tributaries of the HS which is proportional to what we call Love--Divine Love. So yes, even a smoker and prostitutes cannot exist without it. Sin is a different story entirely.

2.

So what you are here insinuating is that everything is Holy,this since you claim the Holy Spirit is in everything - the Holy Spirit according to scripture only lives in that which is Holy/Perfect, in direct compliance with God's Law and blueprint?

Holiness is an aftermath of the presence of the Holy Spirit. The people who presented the Bible made it seem like its abstinence from certain actions (blamelessness) makes one Holy. This is partially true. The HS purifies the mind making someone be of high moral and spiritual standards even without religion. Love is the shortcut.

In a human body, it exists when that person harbours a loving heart and though. In another dimension, Thought IS a thing AND is the action of the Holy spirit in a higher form. It descends like a rod of light from the top of the head down and back up. Anger, worry, frustration and Fear blocks this flow usually in the throat and other parts. The higher the voltage (an actual voltage) of the HS a person can carry, the Holier they are. Absolutely nothing to do with the religion of the person, only the amount of Love they can give and receive. Love then is indeed the master key.

This may not sound convincing because people enjoy their little acts of mortification , restrictiveness, abstinence. It gives them the feeling of working hard for and to impress this "God". The satisfaction from these practice is merely a placebo effect. If you do anything with unattached love (without strings), that is coming out 'Good'.

Kobojunkie:
In exactly what stage of his "spiritual growth" is he in abeg?

His church's doctrines and traditions have changed numerous times in the last 4 decades, this while not even a jot of God's Law, Jesus Christ, has changed in the last 2000 years, so what makes you continue to pretend you have this figured out in a God-related way?

One may not be allowed to go to detail on the state of consciousness of people. By the fruits however, you may see it.

The constant change says he is growing and also allowing his people to grow. Consider other climes where the leadership discover the origin of certain doctrines for instance not to be true but cannot let their people know this for fear of condemnation by their members? That's worse. The Catholic church for instance has tones of facts about Christianity/Islam today which if released, Apocalypse!

Don't fall for the temptation of thinking God's words do not change. The Isrealites are not Nigerians and Nigerians are not Israelites or Jews no matter the volume of faith used. In fact, there is no such thing as a generic God's word. It is always unique as per biometrics.

You now see why l said he be commended (as a matter of saying)?

Kobojunkie:
1. What you describe is a result of sin and not unique in any way to some. When a heart chooses to live in disobedience, blindness sets it as described several times in Jesus Christ's teachings. There is no death but a shifting instead from Truth to Lies and deceit. The more they feed on the lies, they became blind to the truth, nullifying the power of the word of God in their lives as a result.

2. There are no laws that supersede scripture as you claim. All of God's Laws even the one that allows for eating, saving lost animals, healing and helping those in need, all on the Sabbath day are contained right there in scripture. God said to do no work on the Sabbath but He never said they shouldn't do good on the Sabbath day.

3. These churches or cult define their form of holiness by man-made ideas, not according to God's standard as given to us by Jesus Christ, God's very own New Covenant Law in the Kingdom of God. That is what makes them sad. The lies they are ruled by is reason why they remain blind to the Truth of God, Jesus Christ.

4. Why is his shifting from one lie to another to be construed as a miracle? The businesss man is simply changing his business model to suit the times he is in? I mean the church business has also adopted the use of such platforms such as Zoom! for both regular and crusade meetings, Is that also to be termed a miracle?

I am tempted to tell you there is no such thing as Sin, but who is to bell the cat?

We are ruled by a more stricter or Just law. The law of Karma or what physicists call Cause and Effect. It returns to you whatever you do good or bad. This differs from Sin where you can make a plea or perform an oral ritual and its gone. That is a whole setup! It MUST be paid in cash and kind and as invested. Even death does clean this off. The person is sent back in a fresh body to enjoy the music good or bad.

Even from human (carnal) point of view Sin and forgiveness is injustice.

chieveboy:
1.I am tempted to tell you there is no such thing as Sin, but who is to bell the cat?

2. We are ruled by a more stricter or Just law. The law of Karma or what physicists call Cause and Effect. It returns to you whatever you do good or bad. This differs from Sin where you can make a plea or perform an oral ritual and its gone. That is a whole setup! It MUST be paid in cash and kind and as invested. Even death does clean this off. The person is sent back in a fresh body to enjoy the music good or bad.

3. Even from human (carnal) point of view Sin and forgiveness is injustice.

1. But that would be scriptural, would it? Since scripture defines Sinning as direct disobedience of God's commandments contained in His Law and Covenant to us. For those of us followers of Jesus Christ, God's New Covenant and Law in the Kingdom of God, Sin is as detailed in His teachings to us.

2. Your Karmic laws have little to nothing to do with God's Law and Covenant contained in the Bible and sp mean little or nothing to those who worship Him. And your description of sin and forgiveness does not align with God's Truth as expressed in scripture either.

3. And this may be your confusion where Sin is concerned. Sin is act done against God, not against man or your fellow human beings, and the consequence of sin is not removed when one sins. Instead the debt is forgotten.

chieveboy:
1. One may not be allowed to go to detail on the state of consciousness of people. By the fruits however, you may see it.

2. The constant change says he is growing and also allowing his people to grow. Consider other climes where the leadership discover the origin of certain doctrines for instance not to be true but cannot let their people know this for fear of condemnation by their members? That's worse. The Catholic church for instance has tones of facts about Christianity/Islam today which if released, Apocalypse!

3. Don't fall for the temptation of thinking God's words do not change. The Isrealites are not Nigerians and Nigerians are not Israelites or Jews no matter the volume of faith used. In fact, there is no such thing as a generic God's word. It is always unique as per biometrics.

You now see why l said he be commended (as a matter of saying)?

1. And what "fruits" would those be?

2. Change is a constant in this here life and existence of ours, so I don't see why you would confuse change of any kind in the man's business as far as the running of his church empire with what you term "spiritual growth". Even the Catholic church undergoes change- it has several times in the past 1700 years.

3. You are told that God's Law does not change - meaning His commandments to us from 2000 years ago, a Law given to both Jews and Gentiles remains the exact same Laws that apply to this day and will be for eternity. Yet here you are telling me God's Law changes? When did it change and who changed it?,

I don't see any valid reasons for your attempts to twist your way around to pretending there is one..

chieveboy:
1. What the church calls "Holy Spirit" (HS) is the fabric that enables and sustains creation or manifestation. If reality is a painting, The HS is the canvas. The cosmology is like this:

The HS emanates from a central source which humans label 'God'. This is equal to Divine Love (Love without strings attached) By "God", I am not talking about the ones that "made men in their image" who hard favourite tribes and so on. I mean the Supreme Being.

For the Created Worlds to become, this HS forks into two primal streams of Positive and Negative forces and at the same time steps down the quality and immensity of this power. This gave birth to the world's of duality or creation where everything is made possible by its opposite. A recursion of it this is in Electricity with its Positive and Negative poles Male/female, Up/down, Mountain/valley. None can exist in without the other as far as the lower worlds are concerned. All thanks to this twinity of the HS at a particular point of issuance from the source.

From this two primal forces is everything made and sustained. Think it like the clay...If something of coarse nature is to be created or more appropriately said: Manifested, this force would have to be stepped down in vibration and a human would see, touch and feel it. Does this sounds like the HS is Atom? Yes it is, just in a lower state. Physicists have established that the forces that brings about the existence of an atom or matter is non-local, meaning it is not in our space-time. Quantum Physics.

2. You may ask then that how about miracles and so on where people experience the HS and so on. This force actually is Consciousness itself and it is God stepped down. Notice how nature makes beautiful things on earth which are child's play compared to those found in other planets and dimensions. It is (the) 'Information' that morphs into 'presentation' templates...

Experiencers may view the HS in its higher or purer form and not be able to put it in words. Mozart experienced the HS as music (sound) and wrote his symphonies which sounded great even though not presented exactly. Healing is merely the reformation into original vibration of anything while disease is the opposite.

The goal is to contact this force at its higher manifestations which is seen as light or heard as sound. Light and sound are the foundation fabric of atom, Matter, energy, etc so to speak. It is the seed of genius and much much more. Intelligence, Information, Light, electricity, lightning etc are tributaries of the HS which is proportional to what we call Love--Divine Love. So yes, even a smoker and prostitutes cannot exist without it. Sin is a different story entirely.

3. Holiness is an aftermath of the presence of the Holy Spirit. The people who presented the Bible made it seem like its abstinence from certain actions (blamelessness) makes one Holy. This is partially true. The HS purifies the mind making someone be of high moral and spiritual standards even without religion. Love is the shortcut.

In a human body, it exists when that person harbours a loving heart and though. In another dimension, Thought IS a thing AND is the action of the Holy spirit in a higher form. It descends like a rod of light from the top of the head down and back up. Anger, worry, frustration and Fear blocks this flow usually in the throat and other parts. The higher the voltage (an actual voltage) of the HS a person can carry, the Holier they are. Absolutely nothing to do with the religion of the person, only the amount of Love they can give and receive. Love then is indeed the master key.

This may not sound convincing because people enjoy their little acts of mortification , restrictiveness, abstinence. It gives them the feeling of working hard for and to impress this "God". The satisfaction from these practice is merely a placebo effect. If you do anything with unattached love (without strings), that is coming out 'Good'.

1. I believe the HS of your religion is not the same HS of biblical religion. You should probably work on making and maintaining that delineation so you don't go around confusing those who don't subscribe to the same religion as you do. What you are doing amounts to the same error those of the Islamic faith are guilty of when they confuse their Allah with the God of the Bible. There are so many different gods and ideas of god out there is nothing wrong with that.

Be confident enough in your religion so you see no reason to confuse it and its ideas with that of others.

2. No, I have no such questions of your religion.

3. Like I told you, your HS ideas don't even begin to align with with of what is written in biblical scripture and so can't and shouldn't be construed as belonging to the same faith or religion.

Holiness in biblical scripture is instead a result of life live in continuous trust and obedience of God's commandments leading to freedom from bondage to sin, and the result is a vessel that is then worthy to be inhabited and used by God's Holy Spirit who is only able to inhabit that which is not slave to sin.

Anyways, I now realize why what you have been saying does not seem to align with scripture but biblical and extrabiblical. I suggest you embrace and boldly proclaim your belief rather than engage in attempts to hide it behind biblical ideas which don't seem to work at all.

Kobojunkie:
1. I believe the HS of your religion is not the same HS of biblical religion. You should probably work on making and maintaining that delineation so you don't go around confusing those who don't subscribe to the same religion as you do. What you are doing amounts to the same error those of the Islamic faith are guilty of when they confuse their Allah with the God of the Bible. There are so many different gods and ideas of god out there is nothing wrong with that.

Be confident enough in your religion so you see no reason to confuse it and its ideas with that of others.

2. No, I have no such questions of your religion.

3. Like I told you, your HS ideas don't even begin to align with with of what is written in biblical scripture and so can't and shouldn't be construed as belonging to the same faith or religion.

Holiness in biblical scripture is instead a result of life live in continuous trust and obedience of God's commandments leading to freedom from bondage to sin, and the result is a vessel that is then worthy to be inhabited and used by God's Holy Spirit who is only able to inhabit that which is not slave to sin.

Anyways, I now realize why what you have been saying does not seem to align with scripture but biblical and extrabiblical. I suggest you embrace and boldly proclaim your belief rather than engage in attempts to hide it behind biblical ideas which don't seem to work at all.

Well, we like to think God (The supreme one), Holy Spirit is or are aligned to a particular religion, even elementary indicators disputes that assumption.

chieveboy:
Well, we like to think God (The supreme one), Holy Spirit is or are aligned to a particular religion, even elementary indicators disputes that assumption.

Well, the fact is different religions have different truths and so rather than have these contradictory truths in one space, they are best separated and maintained in their own space.

What one religion refers to as HS is not what the biblical religion refers to as Holy Spirit. What one religion refers to as God differs from what another religion does. The elementary indicators in one religion don't necessarily overlap with others and that's OK..

Kobojunkie:
1. And what "fruits" would those be?

2. Change is a constant in this here life and existence of ours, so I don't see why you would confuse change of any kind in the man's business as far as the running of his church empire with what you term "spiritual growth". Even the Catholic church undergoes change- it has several times in the past 1700 years.

3. You are told that God's Law does not change - meaning His commandments to us from 2000 years ago, a Law given to both Jews and Gentiles remains the exact same Laws that apply to this day and will be for eternity. Yet here you are telling me God's Law changes? When did it change and who changed it?,

I don't see any valid reasons for your attempts to twist your way around to pretending there is one..

1: Elementary thinking like not wearing earrings because some people in the distant past used it to create a golden calf.

2 and 3: Several doctrines needs to go and will in the coming times. The laws changed sort of or were summed up into "Live they neighbor as thyself". The ten where done away with even as the bible puts it

Christianity is based on action of some God as relates to Jews and Gentiles. When will Christians realize that before these guys, several generations of Hans had existed and related to God before them? What of the Mayans and Red Indians of the Americas?

Do you now see the limit of the scope? As if all you have there is a totality and God didn't do anything with Africans and the rest.

chieveboy:
1: Elementary thinking like not wearing earrings because some people in the distant past used it to create a golden calf.

2 and 3: Several doctrines needs to go and will in the coming times. The laws changed sort of or were summed up into "Live they neighbor as thyself". The ten where done away with even as the bible puts it

4. Christianity is based on action of some God as relates to Jews and Gentiles. When will Christians realize that before these guys, several generations of Hans had existed and related to God before them? What of the Mayans and Red Indians of the Americas?

5. Do you now see the limit of the scope? As if all you have there is a totality and God didn't do anything with Africans and the rest.

1. Those have absolutely nothing to do with fruits as described in the teachings of Jesus Christ. God never asked His people of old not to wear earrings then and He is not petty that He would now ask those He called in Jesus Christ to do that either.

2. Wrong! The Laws did not change. Love thy neighbor as you love yourself was and still remains one of the 613 statutes of the Old Covenant Law of Moses to the day. It was never added but was and still is a part of that Covenant.

And no man has authority given Him by God to change any law God has decreed, both in the Old Covenant as well as the New, Jesus Christ.

Please, if you do not understand God's Law, please ask God to teach you, if you really care to know His Truth.

4. Christianity is based on the teachings and commandments of the man called Jesus Christ, the Christ in the word "Christianity". It does not matter how others have, either before then or in present times, chosen to relate to God because what matters is the teachings of Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ alone..

5. I don't see any limited scope. I only see you struggling to push ideas that are unrelated to the facts stated in scripture as if by doing so you legitimize them.

Kobojunkie:
1. But that would be scriptural, would it? Since scripture defines Sinning as direct disobedience of God's commandments contained in His Law and Covenant to us. For those of us followers of Jesus Christ, God's New Covenant and Law in the Kingdom of God, Sin is as detailed in His teachings to us.

Like I said, there is God and there is God. They made laws and men also made laws put into 'scripture'

2. [Quote] Your Karmic laws have little to nothing to do with God's Law and Covenant contained in the Bible and sp mean little or nothing to those who worship Him. And your description of sin and forgiveness does not align with God's Truth as expressed in scripture either.

This is very funny statement to make indeed. This is caused by a syndrome found in people who are bent on going by the Letters ignoring the spirit of it.

You only need to look around you. Karma makes it possible for your house to remain there, food to digest, eat, speak reap and sow etc. I even mentioned the study of this in Physics, but you seem to miss it. It's a psychological abberation to want to deny the divinity of this law merely because it is not written in a very limited book (scripture).

It's right there in your Bible from Jesus himself. You can use this to Case-study that syndrome I didn't give you it's name. It makes you sleep by a river searching for water. Same thing Kumuyi suffered and here you are.

3. [Quote] And this may be your confusion where Sin is concerned. Sin is act done against God, not against man or your fellow human beings, and the consequence of sin is not removed when one sins. Instead the debt is forgotten.

Since you reap what you sow, no one sins against God. God takes no offence at all lol. You only 'sin' against yourself. A lie being touted by religion is that God (the supreme one) gets angry or may encounter sadness, regret and other negative or low emotions and states. That's coming from a lot of ignorance.

Kobojunkie:
1. Those have absolutely nothing to do with fruits as described in the teachings of Jesus Christ. God never asked His people of old not to wear earrings then and He is not petty that He would now ask those He called in Jesus Christ to do that either.

2. Wrong! The Laws did not change. Love thy neighbor as you love yourself was and still remains one of the 613 statutes of the Old Covenant Law of Moses to the day. It was never added but was and still is a part of that Covenant.

And no man has authority given Him by God to change any law God has decreed, both in the Old Covenant as well as the New, Jesus Christ.

Please, if you do not understand God's Law, please ask God to teach you, if you really care to know His Truth.

4. Christianity is based on the teachings and commandments of the man called Jesus Christ, the Christ in the word "Christianity". It does not matter how others have, either before then or in present times, chosen to relate to God because what matters is the teachings of Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ alone..

5. I don't see any limited scope. I only see you struggling to push ideas that are unrelated to the facts stated in scripture as if by doing so you legitimize them.

It will interest you that the teachings of Jesus if presented today in their original form, many Christians would look for another religion.