Ken4Christ:

You must be on drugs. Keep joking until the day you are left behind because it will take place in our generation.

NNTR:
John 3:3-7
3Jesus answered him,
“I assure you and most solemnly say to you, unless a person is born again
[reborn from above--spiritually transformed, renewed, sanctified],
he cannot [ever] see and experience the kingdom of God.”
4Nicodemus said to Him,
“How can a man be born when he is old?
He cannot enter his mother’s womb a second time and be born, can he?”
5Jesus answered,
“I assure you and most solemnly say to you,
unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot [ever] enter the kingdom of God.
6That which is born of the flesh is flesh [the physical is merely physical],
and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7Do not be surprised that I have told you,
‘You must be born again
[reborn from above--spiritually transformed, renewed, sanctified].’

Fellas, watch and with rapt attention, watch to this. You can see, experience and feel the power of America, but for you to enter into America, you must meet certain criteria, as no one ordinarily enters America anyhow or just like. Thats simply because certain requirements must be met

Kk, lets head back to the Nicodemus' clandestine private meeting, he had with Jesus (i.e. John 3:3-7 above)

At John 3:2, yes, Nicodemus recognised, admitted and confessed that he has observed the demonstrated power and moves done by Jesus, and all these events and occurrences that left him with the impression that they were all of God, so at John 3:3, Jesus informed Nicodemus that, its only a person born from on high or above, which also is known as being 'born again' (i.e. regenerated or renewed essentially) that is capable of seeing, that all those events and occurrences, the demonstrated power and move done by Jesus are all of God.

Then to buttress and reinforce the point, Jesus after seeing that Nicodemus, looked puzzled about being told of 'born again' then at John 3:5, went further, to explain that its combination criteria, that is required for, to enter the kingdom of God even. The decider, qualifier, or the game changer is to be both born of water (i.e. the amniotic fluid) and born of God (i.e. the Spirit)

My beloved two brethren OkCornel and Kobojunkiee, yes we all (e.g. Rahab, Ruth, Simeon, Job et cetera) get born of the Spirit, from the moment will believe. Now as believers, the instalment of the baptism of the Holy Spirit and the manifestation of the Spirit soon after follow in tandem

Now here's an interesting fact, naysayers, scoffers, mockers, cynics, pagans et cetera dont see, never see and never will see anything good about the kingdom, for the simple reason because they are not born again. They are not born from above, and so are not spiritually rebirthed aka not regenerated, or nor renewed.

It's more the reason, we have atheists, it is because regeneration has not taken place in atheists and all and this is why they are quick to rubbish and/or never want to acknowledge any moves, demonstrations and power of the kingdom of God. They dont believe who Jesus is, that He is God and that the miraculous signs are evidence that God is with Jesus, who is the preincarnate and incarnate God

So my two beloved brethren, that's a modest bird-eye view of what it means to be born-again. Born again, is meant to be a given. To acknowledge God, to accept, confess, recognise, appreciate, own up, concede, realise and admit occurrences or events of the demonstration of the power of God is proof that one is born again aka born from above (i.e. anew).

Born Again in regards to believers, being a given, is the reason why Jesus never publicly preached about it. The state of being born again only came up for discussion accidentally, and even Jesus reprimanded Nicodemus for being a teacher of Israel and not knowing biblical basic no-brainer things, such as 'Born Again', 'seeing the kingdom' and 'entering the kingdom'

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

Kobojunkiee:

... and there was no eternal life installed to any of those of the Old Covenant while they lived. Eternal life was only guaranteed if they succeeded in dying as righteous men.
.

OkCornel:
1. How does this claim of yours line up with Jesus’ teachings on Lazarus the beggar and the rich man?

2. How did the rich man and Lazarus still exist after death? Or was Jesus lying?

Kobojunkie:
1. The story told by Jesus Christ about Lazarus and the rich man was a parable like so many other such parables told in the Gospels. For the detail of that promised by God to those of His Old Covenant consult Deuteronomy 30 vs 15 - 20 .

2. In a parable, anything can happen.

OkCornel:
1. So in a parable, Jesus can use falsehood to preach?

2. There’s no life after death for those who existed in the old covenant? Jesus was teaching fantasies as parables?

SolMaximus:
Jesus was a teacher of spiritual practice and techniques he discovered in the various journeys he had in Asia and the Middle East. Its technically correct to say that "he is the only way" , this is a universal message. It can be true "to believe in Jesus is to be saved" , but the truth is Jesus in person taught the techniques and methods to (spiritually) free the human race, that he learned from Asian schools of thought. Jesus ultimately knew the "72 levels" of spiritual development, and the method to spiritually liberate the individual that may be found in taoism/daoism. This is why Jesus was able to walk on water and perform other supernatural tricks. What Jesus carried out in so called miracles is something attainable by all individuals. Jesus was in reality the last expression of the "ascended" human being reflecting/referencing the powers human beings once had in previous civilizations like Atlantis or Lemuria. We are all in "sin" because the human state is not ascended, we are only energetically enslaved human beings. Only once we follow the way of Jesus proceeding to spiritually liberate ourselves from the spiritual slave masters, can the human race return to its ascended state in physical, mental, and spiritual being.

Kobojunkie:
1. The story told by Jesus Christ about Lazarus and the rich man was a parable like so many other such parables told in the Gospels.

For the detail of that promised by God to those of His Old Covenant consult Deuteronomy 30 vs 15 - 20 .

2. In a parable, anything can happen.

OkCornel:
So in a parable, Jesus can use falsehood to preach?

There’s no life after death for those who existed in the old covenant?
Jesus was teaching fantasies as parables?

NNTR:
1 Corinthians 15:51-53
51Listen very carefully, I tell you a mystery
[a secret truth decreed by God and previously hidden, but now revealed];
we will not all sleep [in death], but we will all be [completely] changed [wondrously transformed],
52in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at [the sound of] the last trumpet call.
For a trumpet will sound, and the dead [who believed in Christ] will be raised imperishable,
and we will be [completely] changed [wondrously transformed].
53For this perishable [part of us] must put on the imperishable [nature],
and this mortal [part of us that is capable of dying] must put on immortality [which is freedom from death].

Glorified bodies are a necessity for resurrection isnt it?
If not then what does resurrection mean for decomposed bodies then, erhn?
Of course resurrection will happen at the sound of the trumpet

I typed, parables are just like jokes. I never said that parables are jokes

Exactly that parables are allegory. On every parable you ride on to a truth of something(s).

For example, Jesus with the parable of the rich man and Lazarus revealed truths about what happens in Sheol after death, what goes on in there, how the place is divided into two sections with a chasm separating the two sides

So, I repeat, parables are just like jokes and just because either dont necessarily need to be taken literally, it doesnt mean that parables or even jokes dont have rings of truth and reality in them.

So, in answering your question, I repeat, there is a time, there's a point, there are parts when and when not to take parable literally, loll.

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

NNTR:

---

---

Kobojunkie:
1. So are you implying that you believe the parable of the 10 virgins, for instance, is based on actual happening?

2. According to God, in Deuteronomy 30 vs 15 - 20, those who died in unrighteousness were rewarded with Death and in Genesis 3 vs 19 - 22, the rule is - from dust you were made and to dust you return for all those who don't have or earn eternal life.

OkCornel:

So the place of torment and Abraham’s bosom which Jesus spoke of in Luke 16 v 19-29 are fictitious places? Jesus made all of that up?

MyVILLAGEpeople:
What about our forefathers that didn’t get to hear about Jesus before the missionaries came ?

Where will they end up in ?

MaxInDHouse:

Parables aren't meant to be taken literally for the listeners to understand.

According to God's word there's no activity in Hell (Grave) {Ecclesiastes 9:5-10} so Jesus wasn't talking about a literal place but a condition of the heart!

Lazarus means the common Jews while the rich man is the religious leaders of his day, those religious leaders knew everything from Genesis to Malachi offhand so the common Jews often comes in to the temple and synagogues to listen to whatever those religious leaders will dish out to them as spiritual food and the constant dominance of foreign nations (dogs) has become like ulcers in the body of first century common Jews.

A change in their condition occurred when the long awaited Christ (Messiah) arrived and the common Jews were favoured as if they're now the ones having close relationship with the God of Abraham while the Jewish religious leaders found themselves in emotional torture as Jesus the one who proved to be the Christ is always in the company of common Jews!

This led the rich man (Jewish religious leaders) into demanding signs from both Jesus and his disciples as they kept interrogating them to get a relief from the emotional torture they're experiencing but Jesus declared that this people won't get any sign except what made common Jews became his close confidants {Matthew 12:38-39} which is just the same scriptures they taught the common Jews! Luke 16:27-31

OkCornel:

Abraham's bosom and the place of torment were not literal realms of existence which Jesus alluded to in his parables OR Jesus made all these places up...

MaxInDHouse:

Parables!
Just like the prodigal son, Ten virgins, Servants and their master's talents!

OkCornel:
So the place of torment and Abraham’s bosom which Jesus spoke of in Luke 16 v 19-29 are fictitious places? Jesus made all of that up?

OkCornel:
1. Ten virgins alluding to a wedding. Weddings do happen

2. The prodigal son alludes to a rebellious son who later became repentant. This does actually happen.

3. Same with the servants and the talents…

4. But Abraham’s bosom and the place of torment are fictitious? They never existed at all?

OkCornel:
Now, the one that has to do with Lazarus and the rich man…my humble question to Kobojunkie is… DID PEOPLE IN THE OLD COVENANT CONTINUE TO EXIST IN ANOTHER REALM OF CONSCIOUSNESS (Abraham’s bosom or the place of torment) IMMEDIATELY AFTER PHYSICAL DEATH?

Or did Jesus tell a big fat lie to preach the truth

Kobojunkie:
1. Weddings do happen as described in that their parable with brides dying(slept) while they wait for their bridegroom and then some of the dead brides being kicked out because their lamps went out while they were dead and waiting?

2. A son kept hostage in His father's house because of inheritance always happens? The one son who took his inheritance and squandered it couldn't even think of going back home to his father as a son except as a slave? That happens?

3. Servants and two talents happens? You don't even understand the details of the Parables you speak of, do you?

4. Jesus Christ Himself revealed that those who have eternal life sleep in their Graves. What Abraham is written of doing in his grave was not sleeping as Jesus Christ explained. So it you consider that a literal tail, you would also be declaring Jesus Christ a liar.

OkCornel:

Ten virgins alluding to a wedding. Weddings do happen

The prodigal son alludes to a rebellious son who later became repentant. This does actually happen.

Same with the servants and the talents…

But Abraham’s bosom and the place of torment are fictitious? They never existed at all?

Kobojunkie:
Did God insist that those judged by His Law would continue to exist in another realm of consciousness - Deuteronomy 30 vs 15 - 20 & Genesis 3 vs 19 - 23 & Ezekiel 18 vs 1 - 32 & Ezekiel 33 vs 9 - 20?

OkCornel:
Oh no...1. So Jesus lied about Abraham's bosom and the place of torment?
2. Apostle John lied about the souls of the martyred saints in heaven when the fifth seal was broken in Revelation 6 v 9-11?

Isn't this getting hilarious..

A parable is a succinct, didactic story, in prose or verse, that illustrates one or more instructive lessons or principles. It differs from a fable in that fables employ animals, plants, inanimate objects, or forces of nature as characters, whereas parables have human characters.[1] A parable is a type of metaphorical analogy.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable

OkCornel:
In other words, Jesus lied that Abraham's bosom and the place of torment where dead people under the old covenant went to actually existed?

I'm really enjoying this joke. The authors of Genesis, Deuteronomy and Ezekiel suddenly knows way much more and accurately than Christ.
Ain't that sweet

Kobojunkie:




2. You aren't making any sense.... why would John have needed to speak to anyone in parables considering his intention had been to reveal that which he saw in his dream/vision?

Kobojunkie:
So You don't want to believe God Himself, the one who literally swore by His Name in all the cases referenced?

OkCornel:
Going by your assertion that those who have eternal life are sleeping in their graves... what were THE SOULS (not resurrected bodies) of slain martyrs doing in Heaven when the fifth seal was broken?

Or was John writing falsehood? Weren't they meant to "be sleeping" in their graves?

OkCornel:
Did Jesus believe Abraham's bosom and the place of torment existed, which he used as a reference point in his parable of the rich man and Lazarus? Yes or No

Kobojunkie:
Again, Jesus Christ told you a parable. He taught instead that those who have eternal ife sleep in their grave awaiting the resurrection. That is what Jesus Christ taught His followers.

You, on the other hand, are the one having a hard time understanding the teachings of Jesus Christ.