Your logic is very weak.
If Jesus was using a parable to describe how "the kingdom of heaven" looks like or what it entails, definitely "the kingdom of heaven" is real place and the parables/illustrations might be made up.
Peace bro.

OkCornel:

So Jesus that spoke about Abraham's bosom and the place of torment is not inspired by God too?
Does Abraham's bosom exist? if the excuse is...Jesus was using it in his parables to pass across a message...
He also used parables to explain the kingdom of heaven. Does it also mean the kingdom of heaven/God is a fantasy place?

cornelboy:
Your logic is very weak.
If Jesus was using a parable to describe how "the kingdom of heaven" looks like or what it entails, definitely "the kingdom of heaven" is real place and the parables/illustrations might be made up.
Peace bro.

So Abraham’s bosom is also real? Or not.
Where is Abraham’s bosom?

OkCornel:

So Abraham’s bosom is also real? Or not.
Where is Abraham’s bosom?

Abraham's Bossom is not a literal place.

cornelboy:

Abraham's Bossom is not a literal place.

But kingdom of heaven is a literal place. Okay, clap for yourself.

Jesus technically used an "Alice in wonderland" place called Abraham's bosom to pass across his message abi?

OkCornel:

But kingdom of heaven is a literal place. Okay, clap for yourself.
Jesus technically used an "Alice in wonderland" place called Abraham's bosom to pass across his message abi?

Pls tell me the correlation between the kingdom of heaven and Abraham's Bossom.
Abraham's Bossom was just mentioned once in a single verse throughout the 66 books of the Bible.

cornelboy:

Pls tell me the correlation between the kingdom of heaven and Abraham's Bossom.
Abraham's Bossom was just mentioned once in a single verse throughout the 66 books of the Bible.

Jesus does not use fantasy as the basis of his parables. REALITY is the correlation between the kingdom of heaven and Abraham's bosom.

Abraham's bosom was mentioned by Jesus. Would Jesus who claims to be the way, THE TRUTH and the life...use a fake place that never exists to pass across his message?

Please answer this.

Y'all just make me laugh. So everything about the Truth is only in 66 books? Truth that has always existed before mankind invented ink and paper is now conveniently limited to only 66 books. Who do una this thing?!

OkCornel:

Jesus does not use fantasy as the basis of his parables. REALITY is the correlation between the kingdom of heaven and Abraham's bosom.
Abraham's bosom was mentioned by Jesus. Would Jesus who claims to be the way, THE TRUTH and the life...use a fake place that never exists to pass across his message?
Please answer this.
Y'all just make me laugh. So everything about the Truth is only in 66 books? Truth that has always existed before mankind invented ink and paper is now conveniently limited to only 66 books. Who do una this thing?!

Do you have access to your supposed truth available before ink and paper were invented? Lol.
If you know any other books inspired by
God of the Jews, you can bring them.

The Bible clearly teaches that there's no activity after death. We remain unconscious till resurrection.

The fact remains that, Abraham's Bossom was only mentioned by Jesus once in one of his numerous parables.

The ten virgins , prodigal son, the king and his servants, the good Samaritan, parables describing the kingdom of heaven, the lost sheep etc are not literal.

Jesus used them to illustrate some things and teach his disciples.

No where else in the scriptures mentions Abraham Bossom nor says it is a real place where the righteous go after death. Let's leave a parable, a parable.

cornelboy:

Do you have access to your supposed truth available before ink and paper were invented? Lol.

Truth is a spirit. Not necessarily a book. If you have the spirit of truth, you are not limited to what is just written.

cornelboy:


If you know any other books inspired by
God of the Jews, you can bring them.

Not just the “God of the Jews” he’s also the God of all flesh.

Few other books (since you’re still limiting the truth to what is written, rather than the Spirit of truth) you can look at are the Apocrypha. The Ethiopian Bible which consists of over 80 books and is one of the oldest if not the oldest Bible.

The 1611 King James Bible which consists of over 66 books.

Writings of the early church Fathers (Polycarp, Origen, Ireneaus) who were disciples of the first Apostles.

cornelboy:


The Bible clearly teaches that there's no activity after death. We remain unconscious till resurrection.

Again, you are reading the scriptures in isolation of evolving viewpoints on Sheol between the first temple Judaism and second temple Judaism. Why would Jesus bring up Abraham’s bosom and the place of torment if indeed there is no consciousness after death until resurrection?

Furthermore, in Revelation 5 v 9-11, why were the souls (not resurrected bodies) of martyred saints crying out for justice in heaven? Shouldn’t there be no consciousness until resurrection? Aren’t their physical bodies still on earth dismembered?

cornelboy:


The fact remains that, Abraham's Bossom was only mentioned by Jesus once in one of his numerous parables.

The ten virgins , prodigal son, the king and his servants, the good Samaritan, parables describing the kingdom of heaven, the lost sheep etc are not literal.

Jesus used them to illustrate some things and teach his disciples.

No where else in the scriptures mentions Abraham Bossom nor says it is a real place where the righteous go after death. Let's leave a parable, a parable.

Jesus uses day to day realities to pass his message across.

1. Ten virgins is in reference to a typical Jewish wedding. Weddings did happen in ancient Israel.

2. The prodigal son speaks of a repentant and remorseful son who was once rebellious. Does this kind of thing play out in real life? Yes.

Same thing with other parables…

But now Abraham’s bosom and the place of torment are fake? Really?

OkCornel:
Truth is a spirit. Not necessarily a book. If you have the spirit of truth, you are not limited to what is just written.....

First sensible thing you have said in a bit... Now...
As Jesus Christ clearly explained in scripture to you, the Spirit of God also known as the Spirit of Truth is the very same Spirit that lived and taught the Gospel from within His person.

6 Jesus answered, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. The only way to the Father is through me.
7 If you really knew me, you would know my Father too. But now you know the Father. You have seen him.” - John 14 vs 6 - 7

Jesus Christ said the Helper would be with those who belong to Him forever - He will live with them and be inside of them, indicating that those who are not of Him cannot receive Him as a result of their inability to see or perceive/know Him.

15 “If you love me, you will do what I command.
16 I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper[a] to be with you forever.
17 The Helper is the Spirit of truth. The people of the world cannot accept him, because they don’t see him or know him. But you know him. He lives with you, and he will be in you. - John 14 vs 15 - 17

Jesus Christ, also promised His followers that the Spirit of Truth which He will ask the Father to give them will in no wise contradict Him in any way since the Spirit will take from that which is Jesus Christ to teach to them all.

25 “I have told you all these things while I am with you.
26 But the Helper will teach you everything and cause you to remember all that I told you. This Helper is the Holy Spirit that the Father will send in my name. - John 14 vs 25 - 26

Jesus Christ taught of how the Spirit of Truth, the Helper, would be sent to each of His followers from the Father and would bear witness about Him, Jesus Christ.

26 “But when the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness about me.
27 And you also will bear witness, because you have been with me from the beginning.

He went on to further state that the Spirit of Truth is subject to Him, Jesus Christ, the Truth of God, in that the Spirit will only reveal that which is of Jesus Christ in order to bring glory to Jesus Christ alone, this by speaking that which of Jesus Christ and the Kingdom of God which is ruled over by Him, Jesus Christ.

8 “When the Helper comes, he will show the people of the world how wrong they are about sin, about being right with God, and about judgment.
9 He will prove that they are guilty of sin because they don’t believe in me.
10 He will show them how wrong they are about how to be right with God. The Helper will do this because I am going to the Father. You will not see me then.
11 And he will show them how wrong their judgment is because their leader[a] has already been condemned.
12 “I have so much more to tell you, but it is too much for you to accept now.
13 But when the Spirit of truth comes, he will lead you into all truth. He will not speak his own words. He will speak only what he hears and will tell you what will happen in the future.
14 The Spirit of truth will bring glory to me by telling you what he receives from me.
15 All that the Father has is mine. That is why I said that the Spirit will tell you what he receives from me. - John 16 vs 8 - 15

a. The Father will send the Spirit of Truth aka the Helper in the Name of Jesus Christ to those who live their lives in submission and obedience to the teachings and commandments of Jesus Christ.
b. Those who live in the world cannot receive or have the Spirit of Truth because do not have the ability to see or perceive Him in their lack of knowledge(KNOWING) of the Truth of God, Jesus Christ.
c. The Helper, the Spirit of Truth, will teach the followers of Jesus Christ all things and bring to their remembrance all that Jesus Christ has taught.
d. The Helper, the Spirit of Truth, will bear witness about Jesus Christ to each of Jesus's own followers.
e. The Helper, the Spirit of Truth, will convict those who are in the world regarding sin, righteousness, and judgment.
f. The Helper, the Spirit of Truth, will guide each one of Jesus Christ's followers into all Truth for He will only speak of that which He hears of Jesus Christ and declare that which is to come concerning Jesus Christ(and His Kingdom)
g. The Helper, the Spirit of Truth, will glorify Jesus Christ, for He will take what belongs to Jesus Christ to declare to each of His followers
h. All that the Father has belongs to Jesus Christ and as such the Helper will teach to Jesus Christ's followers only that which is of Jesus Christ.

---

Since Truth is bound to that which is Jesus Christ, it means Truth cannot contravene or contradict Jesus Christ in any fashion as you continue to.

OkCornel:
Jesus uses day to day realities to pass his message across.

1. Ten virgins is in reference to a typical Jewish wedding. Weddings did happen in ancient Israel.

Typical? You are kidding, right?

OkCornel:

Truth is a spirit. Not necessarily a book. If you have the spirit of truth, you are not limited to what is just written.
Not just the “God of the Jews” he’s also the God of all flesh.
Few other books (since you’re still limiting the truth to what is written, rather than the Spirit of truth) you can look at are the Apocrypha. The Ethiopian Bible which consists of over 80 books and is one of the oldest if not the oldest Bible.
The 1611 King James Bible which consists of over 66 books.
Writings of the early church Fathers (Polycarp, Origen, Ireneaus) who were disciples of the first Apostles.
Why would Jesus bring up Abraham’s bosom and the place of torment if indeed there is no consciousness after death until resurrection?
Jesus uses day to day realities to pass his message across.

Furthermore, in Revelation 5 v 9-11, why were the souls (not resurrected bodies) of martyred saints crying out for justice in heaven? Shouldn’t there be no consciousness until resurrection? Aren’t their physical bodies still on earth dismembered?

The saints in Revelation 5:9 are the 144000 that are raised to become spirit beings in heaven. They are to rule with Jesus on earth at the appointed time. They are the first fruits.

The rest of the Saint are in their graves asleep in death. They also will be raised up in the future.

1. Ten virgins is in reference to a typical Jewish wedding. Weddings did happen in ancient Israel.
2. The prodigal son speaks of a repentant and remorseful son who was once rebellious. Does this kind of thing play out in real life? Yes.
Same thing with other parables…

Weddings happened in ancient Israel no doubt but is the particular story about the ten virgins a real one or fictitious?
It's absolutely a fictitious story.
No bridegroom would marry ten virgins in a day and why would a wedding take place at night and the bridegroom was even late to his own wedding.

The story of the prodigal son too illustrates something. Jesus didn't tell it as a true life story. It is fictitious.

Likewise other parables.

But now Abraham’s bosom and the place of torment are fake? Really?

I didn't say fake. But it was a figurative story. Nothing in the story happened in real life.

Do you even know what Bossom means?

Again, you are reading the scriptures in isolation of evolving viewpoints on Sheol between the first temple Judaism and second temple Judaism.

Pls whose viewpoints? And why is it evolving?

Kobojunkie:
Typical? You are kidding, right?

Do you know what ancient Jewish wedding customs entails?

OkCornel:
Do you know what ancient Jewish wedding customs entails?

You don't seem to know yourself since you seem to think the parable of the 10 virgins is a typical example of such.

cornelboy:



The saints in Revelation 5:9 are the 144000 that are raised to become spirit beings in heaven. They are to rule with Jesus on earth at the appointed time. They are the first fruits.


The rest of the Saint are in their graves asleep in death. They also will be raised up in the future.

I was referring to Revelation 6 v 9-11;

9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained.
10 They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?”
11 Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers and sisters, were killed just as they had been.

Are believers conscious after death or not?

cornelboy:

Weddings happened in ancient Israel no doubt but is the particular story about the ten virgins a real one or fictitious?
It's absolutely a fictitious story.
No bridegroom would marry ten virgins in a day and why would a wedding take place at night and the bridegroom was even late to his own wedding.

The story of the prodigal son too illustrates something. Jesus didn't tell it as a true life story. It is fictitious.

You are still missing the point.
Parable of the 10 virgins - the framework of the parable is set from the customs of a typical ancient Jewish wedding
Parable of the prodigal son - the framework of the parable is set from a rebellious son who was later remorseful. Actual events that happens in various homes
Parable of the seed sower - the framework of the parable is set from the typical sowing and harvesting activity any farmer does.

Jesus uses ordinary day to day event to explain the concept of the kingdom of heaven to his followers.

That being said Abraham's bosom and the place of torment isn't real? Jesus used fantasy locations to preach this parable?

cornelboy:

Likewise other parables.


I didn't say fake. But it was a figurative story. Nothing in the story happened in real life.

Do you even know what Bossom means?


Pls whose viewpoints? And why is it evolving?

It's evolving because mankind does not have access to the entire truth at once. Fresh revelation comes, and knowledge increases.
Same way the activities between Genesis to Revelation did not happen in one day, man's knowledge of God's truth evolved and increased over time.

Kobojunkie:
You don't seem to know yourself since you seem to think the parable of the 10 virgins is a typical example of such.

Humor me. Tell me what you know.
I'm waiting to have a good laugh.

Y'all want to interpret scriptures in isolation of historic and cultural context prevalent in those days.

Comical

OkCornel:
Humor me. Tell me what you know.
I'm waiting to have a good laugh.

Y'all want to interpret scriptures in isolation of historic and cultural context prevalent in those days.

Comical

None of that is necessary. Just post information on what you know of them and we compare what you know with that told by Jesus Christ in the parable of the 10 brides.

I have told you a gazillion times now. Interpretations of the sort you are nothing but lies. This should be apparent from the fact since your many sects seem to each have a different from to offer , all of them different from that which is in fact written..

Kobojunkie:
First sensible thing you have said in a bit... Now...
As Jesus Christ clearly explained in scripture to you, the Spirit of God also known as the Spirit of Truth is the very same Spirit that lived and taught the Gospel from within His person. Jesus Christ said the Helper would be with those who belong to Him forever - He will live with them and be inside of them, indicating that those who are not of Him cannot receive Him as a result of their inability to see or perceive/know Him.
Jesus Christ, also promised His followers that the Spirit of Truth which He will ask the Father to give them will in no wise contradict Him in any way since the Spirit will take from that which is Jesus Christ to teach to them all.
Jesus Christ taught of how the Spirit of Truth, the Helper, would be sent to each of His followers from the Father and would bear witness about Him, Jesus Christ.
He went on to further state that the Spirit of Truth is subject to Him, Jesus Christ, the Truth of God, in that the Spirit will only reveal that which is of Jesus Christ in order to bring glory to Jesus Christ alone, this by speaking that which of Jesus Christ and the Kingdom of God which is ruled over by Him, Jesus Christ.

a. The Father will send the Spirit of Truth aka the Helper in the Name of Jesus Christ to those who live their lives in submission and obedience to the teachings and commandments of Jesus Christ.
b. Those who live in the world cannot receive or have the Spirit of Truth because do not have the ability to see or perceive Him in their lack of knowledge(KNOWING) of the Truth of God, Jesus Christ.
c. The Helper, the Spirit of Truth, will teach the followers of Jesus Christ all things and bring to their remembrance all that Jesus Christ has taught.
d. The Helper, the Spirit of Truth, will bear witness about Jesus Christ to each of Jesus's own followers.
e. The Helper, the Spirit of Truth, will convict those who are in the world regarding sin, righteousness, and judgment.
f. The Helper, the Spirit of Truth, will guide each one of Jesus Christ's followers into all Truth for He will only speak of that which He hears of Jesus Christ and declare that which is to come concerning Jesus Christ(and His Kingdom)
g. The Helper, the Spirit of Truth, will glorify Jesus Christ, for He will take what belongs to Jesus Christ to declare to each of His followers
h. All that the Father has belongs to Jesus Christ and as such the Helper will teach to Jesus Christ's followers only that which is of Jesus Christ.

---

Since Truth is bound to that which is Jesus Christ, it means Truth cannot contravene or contradict Jesus Christ in any fashion as you continue to.

So did Jesus reveal lies to Apostle John in Revelation 6 v 9-11?

9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained.
10 They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?”
11 Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers and sisters,[e] were killed just as they had been.

Shouldn't these martyrs be unconscious of everything after death...until resurrection?

Did Jesus use "fantasy locations" such as Abraham's bosom and the place of torment to pass across his message?

Kobojunkie:
None of that is necessary. Just post information on what you know of them and we compare what you know with that told by Jesus Christ in the parable of the 10 brides.

I have told you a gazillion times now. Interpretations of the sort you are nothing but lies. This should be apparent from the fact since your many sects seem to each have a different from to offer , all of them different from that which is in fact written..

Of course, none of that is necessary, since it contradicts your viewpoint
And there's no persuasive explanation for that.

By the way...was Apostle Peter also preaching lies here?

1 Peter 3 v 18-20;
18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit.
19 After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits—
20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,

Please who were the imprisoned Spirits which the Spirit of Christ made declaration to? Where were they imprisoned?

Hint: Read the bolded part of my quote slowly...

OkCornel:
So did Jesus reveal lies to Apostle John in Revelation 6 v 9-11?
.....
Shouldn't these martyrs be unconscious of everything after death...until resurrection?

Did Jesus use "fantasy locations" such as Abraham's bosom and the place of torment to pass across his message?

According to John, those "souls", he observed under a place he referred to as being under an altar - not Abraham’s bosom and not in a place called hell either.

I would be careful to apply a literal interpretation to that which was reported as being from a dream/vision.

OkCornel:


Of course, none of that is necessary, since it contradicts your viewpoint
And there's no persuasive explanation for that.

By the way...was Apostle Peter also preaching lies here?

1 Peter 3 v 18-20;
18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit.
19 After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits—
20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,

Please who were the imprisoned Spirits which the Spirit of Christ made declaration to? Where were they imprisoned?

Hint: Read the bolded part of my quote slowly...

What I continue to find interesting is how those of you who quote that passage passage Peter's letter almost always conveniently ignore the fact that that passage insists that Jesus Christ went to see Spirits that were imprisoned at the time of Noah, not after.

---

Again....None of that is necessary. Just post information on what you know of them and we compare what you know with that told by Jesus Christ in the parable of the 10 brides.

I have told you a gazillion times now. Interpretations of the sort you are nothing but lies. This should be apparent from the fact since your many sects seem to each have a different from to offer , all of them different from that which is in fact written..

Kobojunkie:
According to John, those "souls", he observed under a place he referred to as being under an altar - not Abraham’s bosom and not in a place called hell either.

I would be careful to apply a literal interpretation to that which was reported as being from a dream/vision.

So there is consciousness after death but before resurrection...hmmm?

Or did Jesus reveal lies to Apostle John in Revelation 6 v 9-11?

Kobojunkie:
What I continue to find interesting is how those of you who quote that passage passage Peter's letter almost always conveniently ignore the fact that that passage insists that Jesus Christ went to see Spirits that were imprisoned at the time of Noah, not after.

---

Again....None of that is necessary. Just post information on what you know of them and we compare what you know with that told by Jesus Christ in the parable of the 10 brides.

I have told you a gazillion times now. Interpretations of the sort you are nothing but lies. This should be apparent from the fact since your many sects seem to each have a different from to offer , all of them different from that which is in fact written..

Oh...Spirits imprisoned at the time of Noah...

Can you read 1 Peter 3 v 20 slowly and tell us whose spirits were referred to? Hmm?

OkCornel:
So there is consciousness after death but before resurrection...hmmm?

Or did Jesus reveal lies to Apostle John in Revelation 6 v 9-11?

Again, what John said of souls in Revelations 6 does not directly align with that contained in the Parable of Rich man and Lazarus given than the souls John spoke of existed somewhere outside of Abraham’s bosom and they seemed to be in anguish over the fact that they had not been avenged.

Look, if stretching is what you want, you can clearly do that easily. But if truth is what you seek,there is only one of those in this , and that is that Jesus Christ told His followers a parable like many other similar parables in order to teach a lesson... a lesson which seems even obvious to those who don't even believe in Him.

OkCornel:

Oh...Spirits imprisoned at the time of Noah...

Can you read 1 Peter 3 v 20 slowly and tell us whose spirits were referred to? Hmm?

You tell me.... Abraham’s wasn't even born at that time for you to claim some connection with the parable told by Jesus Christ in the Parable of Lazarus and the rich man. Also, rather than souls, the story goes that instead these were spirits....another difference from that John claimed to have seen in his Revelation 6 dream/vision

Kobojunkie:
Again, what John said of souls in Revelations 6 does not directly align with that contained in the Parable of Rich man and Lazarus given than the souls John spoke of existed somewhere outside of Abraham’s bosom and they seemed to be in anguish over the fact that they had not been avenged.

Look, if stretching is what you want, you can clearly do that easily. But if truth is what you seek,there is only one of those in this , and that is that Jesus Christ told His followers a parable like many other similar parables in order to teach a lesson... a lesson which seems even obvious to those who don't even believe in Him.

You are dodging the obvious issue.

You earlier stated there is no consciousness after death until the resurrection.
Please what are the souls of martyrs doing in Revelation 6 v 9-11? Which directly contradicts what you earlier mentioned?
Was that a lie revealed to Apostle John?

Did Apostle Peter also write lies in 1 Peter 3 v 18-20?

Kobojunkie:
You tell me.... Abraham’s wasn't even born at that time for you to claim some connection with the parable told by Jesus Christ in the Parable of Lazarus and the rich man. Also, rather than souls, the story goes that instead these were spirits....another difference from that John claimed to have seen in his Revelation 6 dream/vision

Did you see the word I bolded which you glossed over? The "Spirit" of Christ made declaration to "imprisoned spirits".

Read the bolded bits again without the blindfolds

1 Peter 3 v 18-20;
18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive "in the Spirit".
19 After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the "imprisoned spirits"—
20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,

Please who were the imprisoned Spirits which the Spirit of Christ made declaration to? Where were they imprisoned?

OkCornel:
Did you see the word I bolded which you glossed over? The "Spirit" of Christ made declaration to "imprisoned spirits".

Read the bolded bits again without the blindfolds

1 Peter 3 v 18-20;
18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive "in the Spirit".
19 After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the "imprisoned spirits"—
20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,

Please who were the imprisoned Spirits which the Spirit of Christ made declaration to? Where were they imprisoned?

Again.....What I continue to find interesting is how those of you who quote that passage passage Peter's letter almost always conveniently ignore the fact that that passage insists that Jesus Christ went to see Spirits that were imprisoned at the time of Noah, not after.

And are you suggesting Jesus Christ was dead in the Spirit before His death on the cross?

Kobojunkie:
Again.....What I continue to find interesting is how those of you who quote that passage passage Peter's letter almost always conveniently ignore the fact that that passage insists that Jesus Christ went to see Spirits that were imprisoned at the time of Noah, not after.

And are you suggesting Jesus Christ was dead in the Spirit before His death on the cross?

And yet he deflects the obvious questions, answers of which…triggers cognitive dissonance.

1 Peter 3 v 18-20;
1. Whose spirits were imprisoned that Christ’s spirit declared to after his death on the cross?
2. How do you reconcile this with your position that one is conscious after death until the resurrection?

OkCornel:
And yet he deflects the obvious questions, answers of which…triggers cognitive dissonance.

1 Peter 3 v 18-20;
1. Whose spirits were imprisoned that Christ’s spirit declared to after his death on the cross?
2. How do you reconcile this with your position that one is conscious after death until the resurrection?

My position?

Again, the position from Jesus Christ Himself is that the dead sleep in the grave until He returns and wakes them up - John 5 vs 19 - 29 - this He taught to His disciples and repeated severally. Even used in the Parable of 10 virgins to teach of what is to take place at the end, something you seem to have missed completely.

As for the spirits(not souls mind you) from the time of Noah whom Peter referred to in his letter, I am afraid you would need to ask Peter about that since I am not a witness for Peter.

You keep asserting cognitive dissonance here when it is instead that your questions make no sense considering where this all began.

OkCornel:

.

I was referring to Revelation 6 v 9-11;
9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained.
10 They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?”
11 Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers and sisters, were killed just as they had been.

Is everything that happened here literal or symbolic?

Are believers conscious after death or not?

No they are deeply asleep in death.

You are still missing the point.
Parable of the 10 virgins - the framework of the parable is set from the customs of a typical ancient Jewish wedding
Parable of the prodigal son - the framework of the parable is set from a rebellious son who was later remorseful. Actual events that happens in various homes
Parable of the seed sower - the framework of the parable is set from the typical sowing and harvesting activity any farmer does.
Jesus uses ordinary day to day event to explain the concept of the kingdom of heaven to his followers.

You keep missing the point. Jesus didn't tell those stories as real life stories but made them up in order to teach some moral lessons or pass some message.

That being said Abraham's bosom and the place of torment isn't real? Jesus used fantasy locations to preach this parable?

They are not real.
No, Jesus use the parable to teach something.

It's evolving because mankind does not have access to the entire truth at once. Fresh revelation comes, and knowledge increases.
Same way the activities between Genesis to Revelation did not happen in one day, man's knowledge of God's truth evolved and increased over time

Lol. TRUTH doesn't evolve. When it's revealed, it remains forever.

If there's really a place of torment in she'ol, God of the Jews would have warned his people about it right from Adam to the last prophet in Israel before Jesus taught his disciples with the parable.

God only warned them about death (ceasing to exist).

Ezekiel 18:4
[4]Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.