The Trinity (true Or False). The Love Perspective. - Religion (2) - Nairaland
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Anony & Deep Sight: Verse By Verse Academy On The Trinity & The Deity Of Christ / One Of King Solomon's Wives Was From Ogun State, Nigeria. True Or False? / Biblical Quotes Proving That Jesus Is Not God And The Absence Of The Trinity. (2) (3) (4)
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| Re: The Trinity (true Or False). The Love Perspective. by ijawkid(m): 12:11am On Aug 05, 2012 |
Mr_Anony: So john 17:5 supports d trinity?? Abi I dey dream?? Lol..... The same way the Father glorifies the son is the same way the son glorifies his disciples.... What ever happens between The Father and the son is what the son extends to us humans as well.... U had better start adding us to the trinity formular.... U barely understand context and scriptural explanations....... ##The Father glorifies the Son,the Son glorifies disciples......I still dÓnt know if u've read thru those verses I gave u.... ##The Father and the son are one.....the Son and his disciples are one....... The relationship goes on..... ##The Father is greater than the Son,The son is greater than man.....1 corinthians 11:3...... It goes on and on...... Why would Jesus be begging his Father to glorify Him if he was part of a formular that shows that He is the Father or equal to the Father.... Why would Jesus even pray in the 1st place?? It is d trinity doctrine that has so much discrepancies.....not long ago we spotted a verse that was added by trinitarians just to support there pagan stance..... It only takes a false or spurious verse in d bible to support a false doctrine.... As easy as ABC....... Truth is light just asked every one here to show us where in the bible the holy spirit was called a God or God........ U have a lot to prove my bro...... Ur just struggling to prove what constantine and his crew started.... Ona go tire very soon...... There's one more thing... I was recently baffled to find out that just as our( mans) existence is dependent on Jesus,so also Jesus's existence is dependent on His God and Father... Abi no be wetin john 6:57 talk?? #New International Version (©1984) Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. #New Living Translation (©2007) I live because of the living Father who sent me; in the same way, anyone who feeds on me will live because of me. #English Standard Version (©2001) As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so whoever feeds on me, he also will live because of me. There is 1 reason Jesus lives.... And u know the reason.... Like wise for us to live we too as humans must depend on Jesus..... Yahweh-----Jesus-------man........ Now that's d chain bro.......... It seems man is part of the trinity.... I can't wake up 1 day and assume that we humans is Jesus Christ..... That'll be madness!!!!!!!!!!! 1 Like |
| Re: The Trinity (true Or False). The Love Perspective. by ijawkid(m): 12:16am On Aug 05, 2012 |
Ihedinobi: My position is I'm a unitarian.....shikena.... I don't believe in the trinity @ all....... And that's why we've been discussing @ length..... |
| Re: The Trinity (true Or False). The Love Perspective. by Freksy(m): 12:25am On Aug 05, 2012 |
Mr_Anony: God's purpose was for man to live forever. Through the sin of the first Adam(our first earthly father), the prospect of living forever was thwarted, but through the second or last Adam(Jesus Christ), that hope of Iiving forever became restored. He did this when he died for all so that through him all obedient servants of God might have everlasting life. The first father, Adam sold us to sin and death, but the last Adam (Jesus) bought us from sin and death and restored our hope of living forever. It is based on the above role by Jesus that Isaiah prophetically called him, 'everlasting father'. Again, where is the first Adam/father? He died. Where is the last Adam? He is still alive and will live everlastingly. Does the above role by Jesus make him equals to his father? No! Isaiah proves this by prophetically calling Jesus, 'Mighty God', and not 'ALMIGHTY God', a title that exclusively belongs to Jesus' father, Yahweh. |
| Re: The Trinity (true Or False). The Love Perspective. by ijawkid(m): 12:25am On Aug 05, 2012 |
Mr_Anony: So the word mighty GOD is ur problem?? now my question is who is a GOD or what is a God?? GOD na person name?? I culd remember I gave a detailed exegesis on this ""GOD"" issue.....ELOHIM...... Isaiah prophecy's about the messiah's coming...... ELOHIM is a title that all spirit creatures in heaven are entitled to.... Even u as a human can be a God.....psalms tells u that........ Jesus is a God I agree.....after all angel.s are called ELOHIM too,I'm not that myopic not to know,but Jesus certainly isn't Yahweh..... That word GOD is not limited to Yahweh alone but to all spirit creatures even sometimes it extends to humans....... But Jesus himself knew who his God was.... Jesus had a Father and GOD...... I don't Understand why it is hard to accept this plain truths even from Jesus himself |
| Re: The Trinity (true Or False). The Love Perspective. by ijawkid(m): 12:26am On Aug 05, 2012 |
Mr_Anony: So the word mighty GOD is ur problem?? now my question is who is a GOD or what is a God?? GOD na person name?? I culd remember I gave a detailed exegesis on this ""GOD"" issue.....ELOHIM...... Isaiah prophecy's about the messiah's coming...... ELOHIM is a title that all spirit creatures in heaven are entitled to.... Even u as a human can be a God.....psalms tells u that........ Jesus is a God I agree.....after all angel.s are called ELOHIM too,I'm not that myopic not to know,but Jesus certainly isn't Yahweh..... That word GOD is not limited to Yahweh alone but to all spirit creatures even sometimes it extends to humans....... But Jesus himself knew who his God was.... Jesus had a Father and GOD...... I don't Understand why it is hard to accept this plain truths even from Jesus himself |
| Re: The Trinity (true Or False). The Love Perspective. by Nobody: 12:31am On Aug 05, 2012 |
ijawkid: I hate foolish, emotional and directionless arguments, and you appear determined to deal in them. But I'll proceed and extract from all that...(don't know what to call it, for the life of me)...some clear definition as to your stand. - You do not accept equality between Jesus and the Father, and you seem to be saying by that that Jesus is not God. - You appear to agree with truthislight that the Holy Spirit is also not God, so you reject a three-person God. These two things could be broken down into the same positions I extracted for truthislight from his own post, lest intellectual laziness prevents you from looking up those positions and dealing with the difficulties in an orderly manner, I'll proceed to lay out for you what I perceive your positions to be and I ask you to address the difficulties associated with them. There really is no sense in all the haranguing. Just either accept the positions as rightly describing yours or modify them to suit what you think yours are and address the difficulties associated. Where you modify them, I will edit the difficulties if necessary so that you can go on to address them. I perceive your positions to be - that there is only one person who is God - that that person is not Jesus - that that person is not the Holy Spirit - that the Trinity is not Biblical. Here are the questions, - How is God Love if He is only One Person? How did He express His Nature of Love before He created anything? - Why did God create at all? - How does Jesus's sacrifice save anyone if He was not God? - How do the Scriptures show that the Holy Spirit is not God? I am hoping against hope that you'll lay off the beer for a moment or two and actually blow us away with your answers. |
| Re: The Trinity (true Or False). The Love Perspective. by MrAnony1(m): 12:32am On Aug 05, 2012 |
^^^^^^ @Ijawkid and Freksy, As I said, you will have to deny a lot of scripture to hold on to your stance. You even go to the point of allowing for two "Gods" in the bible one "Mighty" and the other "Almighty" (Blasphemy watch) I could keep throwing scripture at you all night but now I know it will be futile because you'll just come up with another shoddy explanation. I give up. I really can't help you guys |
| Re: The Trinity (true Or False). The Love Perspective. by Nobody: 12:35am On Aug 05, 2012 |
ijawkid: You could help us nitwits by addressing the truths in an orderly manner. Just answer the questions in the order that I have set them out. We might surprise you by actually understanding. |
| Re: The Trinity (true Or False). The Love Perspective. by ijawkid(m): 12:43am On Aug 05, 2012 |
Mr_Anony: ^^^^^^ @Ijawkid and Freksy, Just show us where the expressions God the HOLY spirit is then I might concede.... Ur formular has been debunked a long time ago...... I just told u who a God is....... U'll have to simultaneously prove that the HOLY spirit is God or God.... Show us where it explicitly says the holy spirit is God..... Jesus/Yahweh discussion has been deliberated on this forum for too long..... I wuld quote a scripture that trinitarians never have an explanation to..... But if u say ur tired then no wahala..... There is only 1 truÉ God that Jesus talked about and wo®shiped..... Jesus didn't worship himself even if he is a GOd.....don't u get it?? Jesus worshipped somebody.....his Father...... |
| Re: The Trinity (true Or False). The Love Perspective. by ijawkid(m): 12:48am On Aug 05, 2012 |
Ihedinobi: Lol....you aint no nitwit.... Why would u call urself that..... We'r jus having a di§cussion..... My point is if Jesus has a Father and GOD that is above him then it automatically squashes d trinity teaching..... I want to quote 1 scripture that has made me know that d trinity teaching can't hold even in heaven .... 1 corinthians 15: 24 ,27 $ 28..... No sincere hearted person will read those verses and cling to the trinity teaching.... Now u guys might understand me when I and Je§us say there is only 1 true God..... ............. Thanks........ |
| Re: The Trinity (true Or False). The Love Perspective. by Freksy(m): 1:02am On Aug 05, 2012 |
bamto: The concept of trinity is a mystery that possibly cannot be fully unearthed using human language. Jesus, by his teachings, did not mince word as to the positions and roles of the triune God. Its central aim is to underscore the hierarchical order in heaven inspite of their equality- an example unto christian homes and the church. As regards the intricacies of trinity, I do not have full understanding. Jesus is said to be sitting at the right hand of the father (suggesting two personalities) yet God is said to be one. The best illustration is that of water that manifests as ice, water or steam. God perhaps manifest sometimes as 3 separately or at the same time even though he is 1. In all, He is Omnipotent and Omniscient. When we know everything about him, he ceases to be God. When he manifested as a son and died for three days, was the world without a God in those three days? Trinity is mysterious because it's pagan. Would you make yourself or your true form of existence mysterious to your children? Knowing who the Almighty God is, is very fundamental to our worship and Satan knows this fact. He knows if our worship is directed to someone else other than the Almighty, our worship will be in vain. Sadly, he has gotten many through trinity. |
| Re: The Trinity (true Or False). The Love Perspective. by MrAnony1(m): 1:45am On Aug 05, 2012 |
ijawkid: In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God [/b]moved upon the face of the waters. [/i]Genesis 1:1-2 [i]In the beginning was the [b]Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made John 1:1-3 The two passages clearly show the Father, the Word and the Spirit existing at the very beginning of existence uncreated. I hope I have satisfied you sir. |
| Re: The Trinity (true Or False). The Love Perspective. by Nobody: 7:11am On Aug 05, 2012 |
ijawkid: Why, thank you, sir, I'm much relieved. Now, accommodate me just a little more and tell me if the positions I set out in that earlier post before the one you quoted and responded to in your comment above rightly describe your arguments. If they do, please help me further by answering the questions I raised with respect to them. Thank you very much. |
| Re: The Trinity (true Or False). The Love Perspective. by ijawkid(m): 8:04am On Aug 05, 2012 |
Mr_Anony: A little small question for u before I answer the questions here.... Is the spirit of God the same as GOD the holy ghost?? Hmmm..... U had better go back to the hebrew word that was translated spirit of God b4 u run into some serious confusion........ Is d expression God d holy spirit the same as the spirit of God?? Remember I also do not agree that the spirit of God is an individual person forming a trinity..... Like I also earlier said that spirit for once in d bible was never called a God or God..... I know Jesus took part in creation as Gods agent......Jesus has always been Yahwehs agent... Let me stick to names and not using the title (GOD)....... I want u to do a research on the words that are always translated holy spirit,it will go a long way to show or prove to u if the holy spirit is a seperate person or Yahwehs force or strength....... Meanwhile if u have a goodnews bible I'll like u to read genesis 1:1-3 and see the perfect way it describes what d holy spirit is...... concrete research work,contextual reading,and understanding d original intentions of the hebrew and greek words enables one solve this trinity wahala...... |
| Re: The Trinity (true Or False). The Love Perspective. by MrAnony1(m): 8:16am On Aug 05, 2012 |
^^^^^Just to make sure you understand what I mean when I say Trinity and so we are on the same page, I'll quote myself from another thread.
I believe the above post answers your questions...... |
| Re: The Trinity (true Or False). The Love Perspective. by ijawkid(m): 8:35am On Aug 05, 2012 |
Mr_Anony: ^^^^^Just to make sure you understand what I mean when I say Trinity and so we are on the same page, I'll quote myself from another thread. That definition is wrong.... That definition is according to some man made creed........ God does not exist in 3 forms or persons..... The title GOD is nobody's name..... Use names of individuals and let us get on with this.... Hiding behind d cloak of the title GOD is what u guys are using to foster a dogma based on paganism..... I want to hear names.... Call them names..... God does not worship himself.... Now ur definition of trinity is quite different from frosbels,from the posters,from other trinitarians,,,,, The trinity dogma has been remixed over and over again because its not compatible with d bible......don't u see it?? If God is one and then exists in different forms then u'll have to prove why ## God prayed to himself.... ##Why God annointed himself...... ##Why God hands over a kingdom to himself.... ##Why God knows and doesn't know when the end will come...... ##why God worshiped himself.... ##why GOD died leaving d heavens devoid of a GOD..... Use names and let us understand ourselves....... Stop all this 1 GOD divided into 3 places or persons......... The bible does not teach that...... U guys just don't want to face d fact that d trinity fosters worshipping triad GODS....... Its a pagan concept and was never taught by d apostles....... |
| Re: The Trinity (true Or False). The Love Perspective. by ijawkid(m): 8:39am On Aug 05, 2012 |
Ihedinobi: Have u read 1 corinthians 15: 24,27 $ 28  That scripture is d final that ends d trinity wahala....... I want u to explain those verses coupled with all the discussions we'v been having here..... Like I said sincerely consider those texts and ask urself if Jesus is actually the 1 true GOD or if Yahweh is part of a triangle that says Jesus is d same as the Father(Yahweh)..... |
| Re: The Trinity (true Or False). The Love Perspective. by MrAnony1(m): 9:00am On Aug 05, 2012 |
ijawkid: ijawkid:Oh my God! you miss the point entirely. I think the problem here is that you do not understand what is meant by Trinity at all. I believe you understand the scripture so I won't continue throwing scripture back and forth with you because we will only succeed in abusing scripture by doing so. There is an approach Ihedinobi is asking you to consider. You have chosen to ignore it, but are more interested in attacking the image of Trinity in your mind. Let us approach this another way.... Could you briefly describe what you know to be the nature of God. i.e. Who is God? |
| Re: The Trinity (true Or False). The Love Perspective. by Enigma(m): 9:21am On Aug 05, 2012 |
Mr_Anony: I think this is the very heart of the problem. I have pointed this out to several anti-Trinitarians on the forum, including especially some of the non-Christians most vehemently opposed to the doctrine or even the idea of the Trinity. One other thing that I have also noticed about the opponents of the Trinity idea is a tendency to get rude and abusive instead of engaging with the arguments. One more point while I am in ----- regarding God the Holy Spirit and "the spirit of God": - The Holy Spirit is a specific "entity" in the Bible ---- very clearly; He instructed, forbad etc - if speaking of the "spirit of God", you could even go as far as speaking of seven spirits of God e.g. Revelation 1:4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne Revelation 3:1 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead. But then even having spoken of the seven spirits of God, consider carefully the point of this post I made some time ago: https://www.nairaland.com/497445/trinity-doctrine-invented-council-meeting/1#6775459 Psalm 33:6By the word of the LORD the heavens were made, And all the host of them by the breath of His mouth. |
| Re: The Trinity (true Or False). The Love Perspective. by Nobody: 9:54am On Aug 05, 2012 |
ijawkid: Now I am beginning to wonder if you're being deliberately annoying. STOP ASKING ME QUESTIONS AND ATTACKING A POSITION THAT IS UNAVAILABLE TO YOU. Answer my questions first. I am going to ignore you henceforth if thinking logically proves too hard a task for you. You got on this thread to respond to my opening post. Either respond to it or quit trying to drag me into your frivolous merry-go-round. When your head settles from all that buzz and you get around to fixing the difficulties that I have indicated as associated with your position as I perceive it, if I do not accept your explanations, then and only then can you reasonably ask me for better ones. Until you do so, I'll pay no mind to you. |
| Re: The Trinity (true Or False). The Love Perspective. by Freksy(m): 10:21am On Aug 05, 2012 |
Mr_Anony:The expression: 'the spirit of God', is self-explanatory. It is a possession, something that someone has. It emanates from God himself to accomplish his will. What you have is not you. You use what belongs to you to accomplish your will. Satan also uses his spirit to accomplish his will. If the spirit of God is a person or God as you claim, can we also say: 'the spirit of the spirit of God'? |
| Re: The Trinity (true Or False). The Love Perspective. by bamto(m): 10:53am On Aug 05, 2012 |
Freksy:Knowing him is what is fundamental not necessarily knowing (all) about him. Now, why would we pray in Jesus' name? Why would Thomas and many others call him 'my Lord and my God' if he weren't God? |
| Re: The Trinity (true Or False). The Love Perspective. by ijawkid(m): 11:30am On Aug 05, 2012 |
Mr_Anony: There are many GODS..... Use names please...... GOD is nobody's name...... |
| Re: The Trinity (true Or False). The Love Perspective. by ijawkid(m): 11:33am On Aug 05, 2012 |
Ihedinobi: Ok settle down.... The issue here is trinity isn't it?? And ur take is that the trinity is biblical....... Not so?? I'm settled now...... Ask ya questions,then I ask mine...... |
| Re: The Trinity (true Or False). The Love Perspective. by ijawkid(m): 11:59am On Aug 05, 2012 |
Enigma: Sorry if we sound kinda vehement.... Now if u want we could discuss on the seven spirits of God mentioned in revelation....revelation itself tells us who those spirits are.....they are angels....... But as regards the holy spirit is it an angel or is it God or is it even a person...... I would love if we all go back to consider the greek and hebrew word that is translated to holy spirit or the spirit of God....... Thanks.... And sorry once again for sounding a lil violent....it sometimes makes. D discussion fun......:-) |
| Re: The Trinity (true Or False). The Love Perspective. by buzugee(m): 12:03pm On Aug 05, 2012 |
ijawkid:   Ijawkid the violent man. i got a lil scripture for that. PSALMS 18 VS 48 He delivereth me from mine enemies: yea, thou liftest me up above those that rise up against me: thou hast delivered me from the violent man. |
| Re: The Trinity (true Or False). The Love Perspective. by Freksy(m): 12:36pm On Aug 05, 2012 |
Ihedinobi: - How is God Love if He is only One Person? How did He express His Nature of Love before He created anything? Love is inner quality and an individual can possess and display it. You can express love to yourself and others. Even when alone, you can express love to yourself. Remember the saying: 'love your neighbor as you love yourself' God loved himself even before we were created. He is described in the Bible as a happy God. He is not selfish with His love. Out of love he created us. The greatest display of his love is when he sent his only begotten son to come and die for sinful humans. - Why did God create at all? He created us because he loved us. He wanted you to share the joy of life like him. Think about the things he put in place on earth for you and how wonderfully you were made. This explains partly why it pains him greatly when the ones he created out of love disobey or insult him. He never intended for any of us to suffer, grow old, hunger, feel pain, get sick and die. All these odd things happen now because our first human father/Adam disobeyed God. To make sure the purpose for which we were created is realized, out of His love, he sent his only begotten son, the last Adam to come and undo what the first Adam did. Jesus' death restored the hope of benefiting from God's original purpose for man whom he created out of love and best intention. - How does Jesus's sacrifice save anyone if He was not God? Jesus sacrifice was a ransom that needed to be paid to buy back what the first Adam sold out, namely, perfection and prospect of everlasting life. The first Adam was perfect before he sinned and lost perfection and eternal life, to balance the scale of justice, a perfect man was also needed to correspondingly ransom man from sin and death and thus repair our damaged relationship with the Almighty. This would reconcile us again to the Almighty and put us again in line for everlasting life. Recall that the first Adam was not the Almighty God, but a perfect man, so the ransom by another perfect man, the last Adam, was just enough to balance the scale of justice. That is why the ransom provided by Jesus can also be described as "A corresponding ransom". Sending His perfect son was enough for the ransom. Again, when a ransom is paid, someone else must be there to receive the ransom price. That is why after the death and resurrection of Jesus, he went first to heaven to present himself to his father, the Almighty God. - How do the Scriptures show that the Holy Spirit is not God? The scriptures show that the Holy Spirit is not God by never referring to it as God. Though it is personified just like many other things in the Biblie, it impersonal ussage on several occasions in the Bible shows it is not a person. The holy spirit lacks personal identity. It is virtually the only nameless 'God'/'person' in the universe. |
| Re: The Trinity (true Or False). The Love Perspective. by ijawkid(m): 1:25pm On Aug 05, 2012 |
buzugee: Lol.... Hey bro go to ya mail..... We got sometin to talk about..... |
| Re: The Trinity (true Or False). The Love Perspective. by buzugee(m): 1:36pm On Aug 05, 2012 |
ijawkid:no doubt |
| Re: The Trinity (true Or False). The Love Perspective. by pwingtech(m): 1:52pm On Aug 05, 2012 |
The worse ignorance is the ignorance of ones historical background just like christains. Trinity is a believe or doctrine borowed from the world's ancient religions like egyptian,persian,zorosteranism.etc The egyptian trinity revolves around the Holy Gods family :Osiris the Father,Horus the Son&Isis the Holy Spirit who is also the Mother of God of the Roman Catholics. |
| Re: The Trinity (true Or False). The Love Perspective. by buzugee(m): 2:03pm On Aug 05, 2012 |
pwingtech: The worse ignorance is the ignorance of ones historical background just like christains.you are right. and the babylonian trinity was nimrod, semiramis and tammuz |
| Re: The Trinity (true Or False). The Love Perspective. by darlingbas(m): 4:34am On Aug 06, 2012 |
My only concern about the topic being discussed is that Jesus never called or referred to himself as God, i don't think it would be out of place not to refer to him as one. I think we all agree that he is the son of God which will suffice for now, given that we have a very limited understanding of God, i am sure he will not count it as a sin on our part for not referring to Jesus/the holy spirit as God. Personally I'll rather play safe and and not risk blasphemy. All parties on this discussion have done a swell job, i am learning a lot from you all |
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