Freksy:

I think we are beginning to understand each other now.

Then who is Jesus Christ?

truthislight:
guy, read my post well, i said in the beginning of man jesus was QED

since the message in the bible is address to man.

Mr_Anony:
I read your post properly. By the way, what Jesus said was that before Abraham, I AM. (John 8:58).

truthislight:
am saying that in the begining,
This beginning is the beginnig of man on earth since the bible was written for human.

Mr_Anony:
The Word who is God (John 1:1)

ijawkid:

What does the word GOD mean??

John 1:1 says the word was with GOD.....

How many GODs do we have from that john 1:1??

I have always said we shuld read contextually if not we'll run into serious problems.....

If u cannot understand that GOD is nobody's name then we'll conclude that john 1:1 was talking about 2 GODs not 1 GOD manifested in 3 or 2 personalities.......

And we both agree that u don't support polytheism.......

So I'll ask u what is GOD??

The word(God) was with another GOD in the beginning.........

So how many GODs??

truthislight:

imagine!
Why not tell me what animal blood has to do with the sins of the sons of israel?

Was it the animal that commited the sin?
Oh! You are asking what kind of justice is that? Ask God.

Did you not hear that the law was a shadow of things to come?

Are you not aware that the bible said "without blood being pored there is no 4giveness of sin?

InFact this are too elementry for me to come on net and start typing, go read your bible instead of following tradition.

I think every one knows what a ransom is,
go read romans from start to finish,

just as Adam was the first man created on earth so is Jesus the first born of all creation (that is the first born of things created)

Freksy:

You exist because you were created. God could have chosen not to creat you, but he didn't. Under normal condition no one would like to die. Why? Life is a precious and joyous thing, both to man and God. There is joy in living and existing. God loves us and wanted man to experience this.

God created Adam as a sinless and umblemish being. Adam had lived as a sinless being for some times before he sinned. He was perfect until he sinned. Notice what God said at Genesis 1:31 after creating him.

A perfect being can sin. Angels who later disobeyed were once perfect beings. The bible talks of Jesus' obedience to his Father, what should that tell you about being perfect? You can chose to obey or not to.

Adam had a good relationshionship with God prior to his sin. His sin marred this relationship and alienated him from the Almighty. This also made him God's enemy. By inheritance, we also became sinners and God's enemies. Read Romance 5:1-21 for confirmation of above and answers to some other questions.

Satan is a spirit being. Demons too are spirits in form. They are all wicked spirits.

Yahweh is a spirit being and He is holy. Jesus and other angels too are spirits in form and they too are holy. They are all holy spirits.

If you feel it's meaninless for one of the trinitarian Gods (the Holy Spirit) to have a name, a personal identity, how will you differentiate 'him' from other holy spirits whenever the bible mentions spirit or holy spirit?

Consider the following impersonal usage of the holy spirit in the scripture:

People are urged to become FILLED WITH holy spirit instead of with wine. (Ephesians 5:18)

People are also spoken of as being FILLED WITH holy spirit in the same way they are filled with such qualities as wisdom, faith, and joy. (Acts 6:3; 11:24; 13:52)

At 2 Corinthians 6:6 holy spirit is included among a number of qualities. Such expressions would not be so common if the holy spirit were actually a person.

When 70 capable men were appointed to help Moses, God said to him: "Then I will come down and speak with you there, and I will take part of the spirit that is on you, and will put it on them, and they will bear some of the burden of the people with you, so that you do not bear it all by yourself."—Numbers 11:17. New English Translation(NET)
Here, part of the holy spirit(one person of the three Godhead) is to be taken and distributed among 70 men. How

The first part of Acts 2:17 reads: "And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will POUR OUT of my Spirit upon all flesh...' KJV. Could God POUR out a portion of a coequal God?
Remember, the spirit is just one person, but would be poured out as if it were anointing oil, upon all flesh. How?

Has any of the above or the like impersonal usage ever being used in connection with Yahweh or Jesus or even humans? No! It can only be used in connection with non-persons.

Mr_Anony:
Perhaps you can define for us exactly who God is and clear up this whole situation

Mr_Anony:
The Word who is God (John 1:1)

Freksy:

I have read John 1:1 and it's giving me a picture of two distinctive persons/Gods staying with each other.

Remember, I was asking about who Jesus is and you quoted John1:1

Please can you be a bit more specific by identifying these two persons by their names?

Again, that John1:1 says in part: 'in the beginning'

'in the beginning' of what?

ijawkid:

Ok definition....

God
[god]

-n.
1. the one Supreme Being, the creator and ruler of the universe.
2. the Supreme Being considered with reference to a particular attribute: the God of Islam.
3. one of several deities, esp. a male deity, presiding over some portion of worldly affairs.
4. a supreme being according to some particular conception: the god of mercy.
5. the Supreme Being, understood as Life, Truth, Love, Mind, Soul, Spirit, Principle.
6. an image of a deity; an idol.
7. any deified person or object.


Those are all definitions of GOD or a GOD....

The bible itself also gave various definitions of that word ""GOD"

From the bible the word GOD can mean,a powerful king or ruler or JUDGE...it could also represent any powerful spirit creature,both angels ,Jesus and even Yahweh......even satan too and all his demons....

Now back to my question......

How many GODS were mentioned there in JOHN 1:1....

In the beginning was the word,and the word was with GOD(1st GOD) and the word. Who was with GOD( 1st GOD) was GOD(2nd GOD) ..........

How many GODS do we worship??.....

I knw u aint no polytheist so I will wanna hear ur reply as regards john 1:1........

I jus wanna let u know why GOD isn't anybody's name and why context should help us decipher who really is the supreme being we are referring to.......

Also compare john 1:1 and 1 corinthians 8:5 $ 6 and tell me which GOD in john 1:1 is the supreme GOD that deserves our exclusive devotion and by.......


##5 For although there may be so-called gods in
heaven or on earth—as indeed there are many
“gods” and many “lords”— 6 yet for us there is
one God, the Father, from whom are all things
and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus
Christ, through whom are all things and through
whom we exist.


The only. One GOD as mentioned by paul there is associated with the Father from whom all things came...

I keep wondering why Jesus shuldnt be called GOD there in that verse,rather he was called Lord through whom all things came...


But more importantly,concentrate on that john 1:1 and tell me how many GODs are there.....

Thank u!!!!

[Perhaps at this point I should tell you who I know God to be (note: as much as possible, try not to assume something I haven't said)

I believe God is One, He exists in three Persons and the three are One and the same God. They are not parts of God or types of God but one God. They are three in absolute unity and oneness. It is a mystery. The closest (though not perfect) example of this that I can think of is how your soul and your body are both you and not parts or types of you.
God is Perfect, He is perfectly Good, God is Love, God is all-sufficient, all-powerful, all-knowing, all-merciful, perfectly just, ever-present e.t.c. infact God describes Himself best when He says to Moses "I AM!"]

Mr_Anony:
Genesis 1:1 also says 'in the beginning'.......... 'In the beginning' of what?

Freksy:

I have not quoted Genesis 1:1 in any of my posts. Is this how best you can explain John1:1 and tell me which of the two Gods therein is Jesus?

Mr_Anony:
From John 1:1, the only way that verse can make sense with the rest of scripture is this: We have one God who is both the Father and the Son...and might I add the Holy Spirit (though he isn't specifically mentioned here)

I'll quote myself yet again. Please read and pay careful attention this time:-

Mr_Anony:
That is the point of all I have been saying: The two persons are One God. Jesus is referred to as the Word who is God and was in the beginning with God. The same Word (God) became flesh and walked among us.

Mr_Anony:
Wow you will even go as far as distorting the meaning of beginning just to force the divinity of Christ out.

Ok, what is the difference between the beginning in Genesis 1 and the beginning in John 1? And how do you know from the bible that they are different?
Or perhaps you may want to explain how the same event can have two beginnings.

Mr_Anony:
From John 1:1, the only way that verse can make sense with the rest of scripture is this: We have one God who is both the Father and the Son...and might I add the Holy Spirit (though he isn't specifically mentioned here)

I'll quote myself yet again. Please read and pay careful attention this time:-

Mr_Anony:
That is the point of all I have been saying: The two persons are One God. Jesus is referred to as the Word who is God and was in the beginning with God. The same Word (God) became flesh and walked among us.

truthislight:

dont get the scriptures wrong and confuse it.

John 1:1
That portion of the bible is simply saying that this Jesus that is come was a very big person in the beginning befor coming to earth. . . . .

ijawkid:

How can Jesus be with himself??is it necessary??

How can u be with your self??
When you use the phrase like "control yourself", which self is controlling which other self?

John calls Jesus d image of the invincible GOD........
God made flesh

John is and was talking about 2 distinct individuals........
Both existing from the very beginning?

You cannot see Yahweh....no one can see the almighty @ anytime and live.....
But we can see manifestations of Him.

For the Fact people saw Jesus only shows he isn't d same with Yahweh...........
No it doesn't

Jesus was Gods representative and prophet and servant.......
Jesus is God

Yahweh and Jesus are 2 different individuals.......
.....and they are One

Jesus sef talk am oooooooo.....
Jesus in the flesh was acting in humility

Mr_Anony:
That is the point of all I have been saying: The two persons are One God. Jesus is referred to as the Word who is God and was in the beginning with God. The same Word (God) became flesh and walked among us.

Enigma:



Kyrie eleison!

Freksy:


I now know your stand on trinity.

At luke 1:67, Zacharias is said to have been filled with the "Holy Ghost",........ 'God the holy spirit'

During this time, Jesus ('God the son') was about three month's old baby still developing in the womb of Mary.

MY QUESTIONS:

1. Who is the Holy Spirit that filled Zacharias when Jesus was about 3 month's old in the womb of Mary still developing?

2. Did the 3 month's old in the womb momentarily become 'God the Holy Spirit' in order to fill Zecharias?

3. During his 9 months stay in the womb, was he administering to the affairs of the world from there?

4. Who occupied his throne in the heaven, was it vaccant or he took it with him to the womb?

5. When he died for three days, was the world then existing without the Almighty God?

6. Who is that God in Acts 2:24,32 that resurrected Jesus?

Please don't be offended, for I do appreciate your efforts and great zeal. Let us try and unravel this graet mystery called, 'Trinity' once and for all.

Enigma:



Kyrie eleison!

Mr_Anony:
Answer: How can God be everywhere at the same time?

Freksy:

Answer at least one of the six question first and we shall see if really God is everywhere as you claim. It's good to take one thing at a time to minimize digression.
Or, are you trying to shy away?

Note: I can accept 'I don't know' as an option, it's a mark of humility, considering the fact that you admitted Trinity is a mystery.

ijawkid:

Lol.....

Acts 3:13 and aslo isaiah calls Jesus the servant of Yahweh....
13 The God of Abraham, Isaac and
Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified
his servant Jesus. You handed him over to be
killed, and you disowned him before Pilate,
though he had decided to let him go

Acts 3:22-26 confirms Jesus as Yahwehs servant and prophet...

22 For Moses said, ‘The Lord your God will
raise up for you a prophet like me from among
your own people; you must listen to everything
he tells you. 23 Anyone who does not listen to
him will be completely cut off from their
people.’[a]
24 “Indeed, beginning with Samuel, all the
prophets who have spoken have foretold these
days. 25 And you are heirs of the prophets and
of the covenant God made with your fathers.
He said to Abraham, ‘Through your offspring
all peoples on earth will be blessed.’[b]
26 When God raised up his servant, he sent
him first to you to bless you by turning each of
you from your wicked ways.”


Can u beat that??

U'll have to be high on cocaine or some igbo to conclude Jesus is Yahweh.......:-)(joking)...

How wuld u explain 1 corinthians 11:3 to a rational thinking person ??

Jesus has a head and he is still that head??
Then mayb u shuld conclude that since Jesus is the head of man then man is Jesus....(or mayb u can find a trinity explanation to that clear verse)......besides I wonder who is head of the holy spirit....u culd assume that for urself mayb later....:-)

Peter nor any of the disciples who were Jews wuld believe in d trinity...ofcus they didn't.....because they knew who Jesus was(Yahwehs servant)

right now I bet the last title u can give to Jesus is ""servant of Yahweh""

But that is what Jesus was and is to Yahweh....

Jesus did not complain......infact Jesus as a faithful slave of Yahweh came to d earth to do not his own will,but the will of him that sent him(Yahweh)....why will Jesus not decide to do his own will if he was the same person as Yahweh u might ask??was Jesus drunk to have uttered those clear truths??

Even Jesus attested to the facts that d father was different and distict from him...

Jesus is not Yahweh.....and Yahweh is not Jesus......

Jesus expressed and manifested his Fathers qualities....that is why he is called the image of the invincible GOD and a prophet of Yahweh....even u shuld understand that...don't let d trinity blur ur scriptural understanding.....

Its a fact that the almighty cannot be seen or touched physically nor die....

But all that happened in the case of Jesus....

Mr anony let us face facts and live the trinity myth founded by constantine.....

Yahweh and his son are 2 different individuals........

1 is greater than the other......(Jesus said that with his own mouth o)....

1 is better than the other(Jesus also said that with his own mouth when he told some1 that no one is good,except one(Yahweh).....

there is this scripture I have been quoting and u and all of ur kind have never come out to explain for everybody to see the folly of this man made dogma called the trinity.....

1 corinthians 15:24-28.............
It reads from the international standard version...

24Then
the end will come, when after he has done
away with every ruler and every authority and
power, the Messiah hands over the kingdom
to God the Father. 25For he must rule until
God puts all the Messiah’s[m] enemies under
his feet. 26The last enemy to be done away
with is death, 27for “God has put
everything under his feet.” Now when he
says, “Everything has been put under him,” this
clearly excludes the one who put everything
under him. 28But when everything has been
put under him, then the Son himself will also
become subject to the one who put everything
under him, so that God may be all in all.
.
....

Those verses are always my last quote to trinitarians,modalists and what ever sort of doctrine any1 might hold that supports Jesus being the same as the Father or Jesus equal to the Father or Jesus being Yahweh......



U can go ruminate on those verses for as long as u can.......

Ask urself pertinent questions regarding Jesus's power and kingship, if it is limited or if he infact received it.....because ofcus if Jesus was Yahweh himself what d apostle paul wrote there that will happen in the end would be useless and false.....

There emphatically says that when it says"" all things have been subjected to him it is with the exception of the one who subjected all things under his feet(Jesus feet)..

Who is the one been excepted that is doing the giving and the one that all things were subjected to and on the recieveing end??

Are they one and d same person??

.....
Ask urself the same questions I've been asking since d beginning of this discuss......

U can also go back and analyze what happened @ the council of NICEA and how it has affected ur view as regards the son and the Father(I even wonder why one is the Father and the other the son if they are one and d same)

Or u can stick to ur own facts......


This is my last comment on this particular topic......

Thank u mr anony......

truthislight:

dont get the scriptures wrong and confuse it.

John 1:1
That portion of the bible is simply saying that this Jesus that is come was a very big person in the beginning befor coming to earth. . . . .

Mr_Anony:
Answer: How can God be everywhere at the same time?

Mr_Anony:
You have taken a multitude of jumps in your argument without following them through logically. The problem with a lot of people (and this includes you) is that they pick up a topic and then they approach the bible by pitting one verse against another verse so that which ever verses are more cancel out the other verses. That is how not to read scripture.
The scripture should be read with the understanding that the message is true. This way, whenever you come across apparent contradictions the aim should be how to reconcile them and not how to find other scripture to cancel out the ones you are not comfortable with, by doing this, you nullify the truth of the scripture and replace it with a doctrine invented by yourself.
You did not explain how else the Word and God can both be uncreated and still be One God (John 1:1). All you did was go around finding scripture where Jesus says the Father is greater than He. What you skipped was the part that tells us that the Son humbled Himself though being equal to God, He gave up His 'God privileges' so as to be manifest in the flesh.(Phil 2:5-10)

It is not a bible verse battle, but a study to find truth. You don't find truth by cutting out bits of the bible that you find uncomfortable.
It is not by how many verses you can spit but by how relevant they are to correctly defining the truth. Please don't turn the message of the gospel into another book of law where you go around seeking clauses in support of your argument.....

......The letter killeth but the Spirit giveth life