Image123:
Not to leave you in the cold in more than one thread, lemme answer this one. It has to be said that you lack proper perspective on many lines. i didn't refuse to highlight, i clearly quoted the passages and showed you how God had given prior punishments. You lost and lack perspective by breaking one particular people into different people in your reply. you lack perspective by thinking that God is a man. You lack perspective by inferring that the nation of Israel are kids. You lack perspective by generalising disobedience. Disobedience to finish your food, or do the dishes is not disobedience of theft or murder or adultery or idolatry. The simplistic question is rather an attempt to muddle up issues, and leave readers without perspective like you.
Now, in punishing people, it should be noted that punishment differ in intensity and usefulness from time to time, person to person, and group to group. One man's poison is another's meat. The 12 strokes of cane that 'A' will brazenly take with swagger, 'B' might weep bitterly at even the prospect. Cutting grass is big deal for some, while its fun for another. 'C'that might kneel for hours might find it extremely strenuous to write "I am sorry for bad behaviour" in two pages. That's some perspective on punishment. Now for Israel(the set of people you recommended punishment for), the Bible and history shows that the worse punishment for them is captivity. It's last resort punishment, but you picked it first. I'll repeat again Actually yours might even be considered worse as it is your first and immediate recourse, while God tried other means first before going for your suggestion.
I already showed you the other means and you already quoted it. Some passages from the Bible to show you again that captivity was the worst form of punishment for an Israelite. The Israelites know of their history of captivity in Egypt from which God delivered them through Moses. Captivity comes with the full package. It is to them, the mother of all punishment, which they would rather not face for anything.
Jer 22:10 Weep ye not for the dead, neither bemoan him: but weep sore for him that goeth away: for he shall return no more, nor see his native country.
Here is a comparison between the dead and the captive. The Israelite would rather be dead than captive. It says weep not for the dead, but weep sore/bitterly for those that are taken captive(from their native country).
Jer 22:11 For thus saith the LORD touching Shallum the son of Josiah king of Judah, which reigned instead of Josiah his father, which went forth out of this place; He shall not return thither any more:
Jer 22:12 But he shall die in the place whither they have led him captive, and shall see this land no more.
There is the popular Jewish man's prayer in which he thanks God daily for not being a slave. It was so with the Jews of Jesus time who denied even ever being in bondage when they whole world virtually knows they were at least once in bondage to Egypt.
Joh 8:33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?

God is the only wise God, who is good enough and knowlegdeable enough to know what punishment to give each. i thank God that you also gave/suggested punishments for defaulters. It is good to punish defaulters and criminals, and there is indeed a thing as the best punishment for a crime.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

It is only an ostrich behaving human that will continuously show a blind eye to God's goodness to us, and only be looking for worst case scenario punishments to fault God. God is not mocked, neither can He be judged. You(and every man) on the other hand await judgement.

You are a liar and you now it. . .Pls re read the nonsense yo just typed and laught at your self. . .I gave you clear verse from the boo k of Amos that says your god infected people with diseases, famine, and killed their kids because they refuse to obey him and worship him. . .All yo did was to make your own commentary about things i never even said and put a veriety of verse from other book of the bible just to explain absurdity away. . .Who do you think you are fooling?

Every body tried but i think you are not yet convinced

The Amalekites were judged because of their wickedness against the Israelites when they were yet wandering in the wilderness.
The story of the amalekites is how God was called the name JehovahNissi Exodus 17:8-16. The judgement of the Amalekites as given by God to Saul was a vow he made in Ex 17:16 (KJV) '' For he said, Because the Lord hath sworn that the Lord will have war with Amalek from generation to generation".
They were to be punished for waylaying the Israelites when they were defenceless, weak, and without their own place when they were still wandering in the wilderness. The Amalekites knowing all these, still came against them in the desert. It Pained God to see the children of Israel being attacked when they could not help their selves, so God Vowed to make sure the Amalek paid for what they did and emphasized it again to Moses in Numbers 24:20 and Deuteronomy 25:17-19 "Remember what Amalek did unto thee by the way, when ye were come forth out of Egypt; How he met thee by the way, and smote the hindmost of thee, even all that were feeble behind thee, when thou wast faint and weary; and he feared not God, Therefore it shall be, when the Lord thy God hath given thee rest from all thine enemies round about, in the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee for an inheritance to possess it, that thou shalt blot out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven; thou shalt not forget it".
In fact, God was so committed to fulfilling the vow that he had to reject Saul quickly for disobeying the assignment "And Samuel said unto Saul, I will not return with thee: for thou hast rejected the word of the Lord, and the Lord hath rejected thee from being king over Israel
1 Sam 15:26 (KJV)".
WICKED PEOPLE ALWAYS PAY FOR THEIR WICKEDNESS.
Yes God visits the wickedness with their own evil and destruction. it is not because he is God, but that the wicked man will do evil as long as it takes, so he executes judgement speedily on the wicked and heartless to stop his hand and his power.THERE IS ALWAYS a CAUSE for every CURSE.

To theHomer and to his followers,you must be very important to God for him to send you this explanation, i just pray you have understanding.

momomomo: Every body tried but i think you are not yet convinced

The Amalekites were judged because of their wickedness against the Israelites when they were yet wandering in the wilderness.
The story of the amalekites is how God was called the name JehovahNissi Exodus 17:8-16. The judgement of the Amalekites as given by God to Saul was a vow he made in Ex 17:16 (KJV) '' For he said, Because the Lord hath sworn that the Lord will have war with Amalek from generation to generation".
They were to be punished for waylaying the Israelites when they were defenceless, weak, and without their own place when they were still wandering in the wilderness. The Amalekites knowing all these, still came against them in the desert. It Pained God to see the children of Israel being attacked when they could not help their selves, so God Vowed to make sure the Amalek paid for what they did and emphasized it again to Moses in Numbers 24:20 and Deuteronomy 25:17-19 "Remember what Amalek did unto thee by the way, when ye were come forth out of Egypt; How he met thee by the way, and smote the hindmost of thee, even all that were feeble behind thee, when thou wast faint and weary; and he feared not God, Therefore it shall be, when the Lord thy God hath given thee rest from all thine enemies round about, in the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee for an inheritance to possess it, that thou shalt blot out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven; thou shalt not forget it".
In fact, God was so committed to fulfilling the vow that he had to reject Saul quickly for disobeying the assignment "And Samuel said unto Saul, I will not return with thee: for thou hast rejected the word of the Lord, and the Lord hath rejected thee from being king over Israel
1 Sam 15:26 (KJV)".
WICKED PEOPLE ALWAYS PAY FOR THEIR WICKEDNESS.
Yes God visits the wickedness with their own evil and destruction. it is not because he is God, but that the wicked man will do evil as long as it takes, so he executes judgement speedily on the wicked and heartless to stop his hand and his power.THERE IS ALWAYS a CAUSE for every CURSE.

To theHomer and to his followers,you must be very important to God for him to send you this explanation, i just pray you have understanding.

A challenger arrives.

This is what you're addressing and trying to justify.

3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy[a] all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’”

What did the children and infants do that they too deserved to be killed?

the children were there to die because they are the product of the generation of the amalekites. the vow was for war to always exist from one generation to another, every child represented a generation.

momomomo: the children were there to die because they are the product of the generation of the amalekites. the vow was for war to always exist from one generation to another, every child represented a generation.

Are you reading what you're saying here? You're saying that it is right for children to be killed because of the crimes of their parents. How exactly is that justice to you? Would it be right if Mugabe ordered that the children of his opponents be killed for opposing him? If it isn't right for Mugabe to do this, why is it right for God to do it?

the only supreme justice is that of God every other justice is based on the desire of man.

thehomer, when will you realise that you lack a moral base to argue or discuss these kind of issue? Is killing of babies by abortion not justified by you?

momomomo: the only supreme justice is that of God every other justice is based on the desire of man.

The Rwandan genocide could also have been God's justice couldn't it? In my example, God could have been using Mugabe to achieve his aims couldn't he?

@image123, let him be, every one has an opportunity to ask questions in area they have concern in.

Image123: thehomer, when will you realise that you lack a moral base to argue or discuss these kind of issue? Is killing of babies by abortion not justified by you?

You and God lack a moral base to argue or discuss any issue at all. But then an abortion is different from killing a 1 year old child. Keep in mind the fact that God is fine with killing children in and out of the uterus. I am not so I'm more moral than your God when it comes to that.

God's execution of justice is not random,there is a difference between the selfishness of the desire of a man and the intervention of God.the acts of God speaks justice but that of man is bore from his wicked intention.That is why you can refuse the principles of God, you were also given a chance to chose what side you belong and how you want to live your life.every man decides his own path with God.irrespective of what every man has to say about God, it doesn't stop him from showing the man the right way to go in life. his ways are not for bad but for good.

The book of Job is the perfect authority for this question. the book is centred on the power of God, the prevalence of evil and suffering among the faithful and Righteous. Job cries out for "justice", and God directly addresses it.

God informs us in the book of Job, that he sees it fit to render the ostrich stupid, harsh to its young, and yet faster than horses. that he is responsible for the strengths and survival of predators and preys alike. That his power extends further than that of the Behemoth and its likes; whom he created.

The clear picture arises; God is beyond good and evil, he is beyond "Justice" and not trapped by its mechancial patterns. Job's reaction to God's response to him was that of submission and the realization he is shortsighted.

Although we are confronted with the traumas and horrors of the Rwandan Genocide, the Holocaust, the lack of social justice in the modern world; yet "we" have to accept that God's omnipotence and omniscience embraces Evil, without which God isnt encompassing and all knowing. Evil is a conscious act of God.

God does not embrace evil. Evil to God is knowing what is not good so that you can stay clear of it."And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil
Gen 2:9 (KJV)". it was when man knew the opposite of good (which is evil, man now desired that aspect more than the good of itself. God is the only good God. He is all knowing because he knows every thought , desire and expectation of man. Every thing God does is good, not evil.Like i said before, to the good, his ways are good but to the wicked, he is wicked to them. HE RENDERS THE WICKEDNESS OF THE WICKED ON THEIR OWN HEAD. God is a good God.Evil is a conscious act of MAN not God.

momomomo: God's execution of justice is not random,there is a difference between the selfishness of the desire of a man and the intervention of God.the acts of God speaks justice but that of man is bore from his wicked intention.That is why you can refuse the principles of God, you were also given a chance to chose what side you belong and how you want to live your life.every man decides his own path with God.irrespective of what every man has to say about God, it doesn't stop him from showing the man the right way to go in life. his ways are not for bad but for good.

Since his execution of justice isn't random, it would mean that he simply sat down and planned to kill those 1 year old children. Now why is it that when God who could have punished the guilty alone decides to punish both the guilty and the innocent children, it is considered as him doing something good?

momomomo: God does not embrace evil. Evil to God is knowing what is not good so that you can stay clear of it."And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil

Is it not embracing evil to tell some men to go out and kill 1 year old children? Kill 6 month old children? Kill pregnant women and ripping out the children from their pregnant bellies?

momomomo:
Gen 2:9 (KJV)". it was when man knew the opposite of good (which is evil, man now desired that aspect more than the good of itself. God is the only good God. He is all knowing because he knows every thought , desire and expectation of man. Every thing God does is good, not evil.Like i said before, to the good, his ways are good but to the wicked, he is wicked to them. HE RENDERS THE WICKEDNESS OF THE WICKED ON THEIR OWN HEAD. God is a good God.Evil is a conscious act of MAN not God.

If God is so good, how do you explain the commands he specifically gave men to go out and kill young children?

the loins of the men and women of the amalakites that gave birth to the children.every seed of a man is his child.every of those children were amalakites. it was not about ages even though the amalekites killed both small and big, but about the people that did that wickedness before him.the judgement was as a people because they came as one people against the Israelites. The innocent person is that man that is not an amalakites. talk about the DNA of a man.it is also passed down to his child. "Remember what Amalek did unto thee by the way, when ye were come forth out of Egypt; 18 How he met thee by the way, and smote the hindmost of thee, even all that were feeble behind thee, when thou wast faint and weary; and he feared not God. 19 Therefore it shall be, when the Lord thy God hath given thee rest from all thine enemies round about, in the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee for an inheritance to possess it, that thou shalt blot out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven; thou shalt not forget it.
Deut 25:17-19 (KJV)"
the second part you should know is that they were not utterly destroyed in Saul's' time because of his disobedience, then because of the same wickedness in his heart, they rose up again in 1 Samuel 30:1-19 to smite the same people,the Israelites they were warned about to let be. talk about an unrepentant heart. so God knows what is truly good to man. Man only does what is right.

momomomo: the loins of the men and women of the amalakites that gave birth to the children.every seed of a man is his child.every of those children were amalakites. it was not about ages even though the amalekites killed both small and big, but about the people that did that wickedness before him.the judgement was as a people because they came as one people against the Israelites. The innocent person is that man that is not an amalakites. talk about the DNA of a man.it is also passed down to his child. "Remember what Amalek did unto thee by the way, when ye were come forth out of Egypt; 18 How he met thee by the way, and smote the hindmost of thee, even all that were feeble behind thee, when thou wast faint and weary; and he feared not God. 19 Therefore it shall be, when the Lord thy God hath given thee rest from all thine enemies round about, in the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee for an inheritance to possess it, that thou shalt blot out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven; thou shalt not forget it.
Deut 25:17-19 (KJV)"
the second part you should know is that they were not utterly destroyed in Saul's' time because of his disobedience, then because of the same wickedness in his heart, they rose up again in 1 Samuel 30:1-19 to smite the same people,the Israelites they were warned about to let be. talk about an unrepentant heart. so God knows what is truly good to man. Man only does what is right.

Are you saying that a 6 month old Amalekite baby deserved to die when God could have punished the parents and taken care of the child? Please answer this with a yes or no.

thehomer:

Are you saying that a 6 month old Amalekite baby deserved to die when God could have punished the parents and taken care of the child? Please answer this with a yes or no.

Why not ask about one month old baby also ?

It suite you to forget that the sentence was as a retribution for what they did to the sons of Israel on there way out of Egypt.

Go read about that account of what the Amalikite did to the Jews and come back and ask if the Amalikite had kill 0 month old baby in the worm. Smh.

Do you know what "eye for an eye" means ?

truthislight:

Why not ask about one month old baby also ?

I am also asking about one month old babies too.

truthislight:
It suite you to forget that the sentence was as a retribution for what they did to the sons of Israel on there way out of Egypt.

Go read about that account of what the Amalikite did to the Jews and come back and ask if the Amalikite had kill 0 month old baby in the worm. Smh.

Do you know what "eye for an eye" means ?

I know what an eye for an eye means but does God know what it means? Did the 6 month old baby go out and kill someone? If not, why does God feel they must die?

This is not an eye for an eye. This is God's Judgement on a people that wickedly attacked another people in their weak and feeble and helpless state.it was the people of the amalakites that brought the judgement on their selves and on their generation (i.e. their children).As a child, who decides for you when you are yet a baby? your guess is as good as mine, yes! the parents or whoever is over seeing the affair of that child. at that time that child cannot really refuse though it nods his head anyway and anyhow.so the decision to attack was decided by their fathers and mothers, brothers and sisters on their behalf.so they where not also in the position to refuse the judgement yet as a child.it must also be paid and accepted by them by their fathers and all included on their behalf. On an individual basis, many may not have agreed to attack but because they came as one people, from one region, with one mind united in a common goal and agenda then it is acceptable to say the people were one in the same course of destroying another people so the judgement was also passed on them as one people who came out against another.

truthislight:

Why not ask about one month old baby also ?

It suite you to forget that the sentence was as a retribution for what they did to the sons of Israel on there way out of Egypt.

Go read about that account of what the Amalikite did to the Jews and come back and ask if the Amalikite had kill 0 month old baby in the worm. Smh.

Do you know what "eye for an eye" means ?

If God told you to kill your fellow human today, would you do it ? Whilst it's not all hard-and-fast, the events narrated in the Pentateuch confute the idea of an all-good God from whom no evil comes, for it is most clear those commands encouraged evil.

God is good. like before, God is Good to the good and wicked to the wicked. so what best to do is for you not to be a wicked person because you will even have a greater judgement than the amalakites. God does not pretend that a wicked man will change his ways, it is the state of the heart of the mind that made that evil act that he looks out for.Don't oppress those weak in your midst and you will see if you will not enjoy yours. those commands are judgement not evil...what is judgement, getting back a punishment you rendered on another equally or unequally. that does not stains the good nature of God at all, in fact it would have been surprising if the amalakites just went like that celebrating the way they waylaid defenceless people. No, that would be God closing his eyes to the wickedness on them. God cannot stand wickedness. that is evil more than evil. he quickly listens to the cry of the oppressed that cannot help himself and has none to fight for him or protect him from the wicked man.

momomomo: This is not an eye for an eye. This is God's Judgement on a people that wickedly attacked another people in their weak and feeble and helpless state.it was the people of the amalakites that brought the judgement on their selves and on their generation (i.e. their children).As a child, who decides for you when you are yet a baby? your guess is as good as mine, yes! the parents or whoever is over seeing the affair of that child. at that time that child cannot really refuse though it nods his head anyway and anyhow.so the decision to attack was decided by their fathers and mothers, brothers and sisters on their behalf.so they where not also in the position to refuse the judgement yet as a child.it must also be paid and accepted by them by their fathers and all included on their behalf. On an individual basis, many may not have agreed to attack but because they came as one people, from one region, with one mind united in a common goal and agenda then it is acceptable to say the people were one in the same course of destroying another people so the judgement was also passed on them as one people who came out against another.

Are you seriously considering what you're saying here? You're saying it is right that God commanded that all members of a tribe be killed because a few of them killed some people. Is this the correct judgement? Even human judges know better than to order that a murderer's wife and children also be killed because the man killed someone. All you're doing here is showing how evil and unjust this God of yours actually is.

it is the ultimate judgement. like i said the people of amalakites came as one, with the heart of destroying another. it was not a few of them.it was the whole nation that came against Israel, maybe the infant were the few you are talking about here. you know the good thing about God is that he provides an opportunity to change from your wicked and evil ways. Before the judgement was supposedly executed by king Saul, (because he did not fulfil the commandment), God gave a grace period of several decades for that heart to change, he did not judge instantly or immediately here but they kept on pouring fury and indignation on Israel in the time of moses " For the Amalekites and the Canaanites are there before you, and ye shall fall by the sword: because ye are turned away from the Lord, therefore the Lord will not be with you.
Num 14:43 (KJV)", and the reign of Judges in Israel "The Zidonians also, and the Amalekites, and the Maonites, did oppress you; and ye cried to me, and I delivered you out of their hand.
Judges 10:12 (KJV)". Not one good deed from them to the Israelites. they were always looking for opportunities to deal with Israel. God already know their heart. once that wicked heart is set to do evil, only God's intervention stills the heart of that person. As a father, God chastises those he love, but to the wicked, he visits their wickedness upon their own head..Can you fight for the helpless?

I don't know why christians keep lying to themselves with this false label they have attributed to their god that he is all good and all loving. . .It is simply very false, a simple reading of the bible shows that such a god is an evil monster, even the allah of the koran seems a better character than the god of the OT. . .The surprising thing is that the jews that invented the god idea and the story do not waste their time claiming that their god is all good or loving, they will just tell you clearly that their god is a good of justice. . .Simple. . .if you don't like his ways good for you. . .They don't go out of their ways telling lies all over the place and trying to make a monster that was portrayed in stories written by savages as a good entity. . Jews don't do that only christians and their idea of a loving and good good keep telling lies all over the place. . .

God is good to the good and wicked to the wicked. Choose the one you want, that's your choice to make.it was the Israelites that disobey God that brought judgement to their selves. Ask for the ways he has been good and see if it was not because they were followers of his ways.he is good and will always be good.

thehomer:

I know what an eye for an eye means but does God know what it means? Did the 6 month old baby go out and kill someone? If not, why does God feel they must die?

Why did the Amalikite and their god feel that the Israelites men, women, children born and unborn, lives stock and all must die ?

momomomo: it is the ultimate judgement. like i said the people of amalakites came as one, with the heart of destroying another. it was not a few of them.it was the whole nation that came against Israel, maybe the infant were the few you are talking about here. you know the good thing about God is that he provides an opportunity to change from your wicked and evil ways. Before the judgement was supposedly executed by king Saul, (because he did not fulfil the commandment), God gave a grace period of several decades for that heart to change, he did not judge instantly or immediately here but they kept on pouring fury and indignation on Israel in the time of moses " For the Amalekites and the Canaanites are there before you, and ye shall fall by the sword: because ye are turned away from the Lord, therefore the Lord will not be with you.
Num 14:43 (KJV)", and the reign of Judges in Israel "The Zidonians also, and the Amalekites, and the Maonites, did oppress you; and ye cried to me, and I delivered you out of their hand.
Judges 10:12 (KJV)". Not one good deed from them to the Israelites. they were always looking for opportunities to deal with Israel. God already know their heart. once that wicked heart is set to do evil, only God's intervention stills the heart of that person. As a father, God chastises those he love, but to the wicked, he visits their wickedness upon their own head..Can you fight for the helpless?

You're not addressing anything I've said. You're just going off on your own tangent.

truthislight:

Why did the Amalikite and their god feel that the Israelites men, women, children born and unborn, lives stock and all must die

Where did you read the Amalekite God saying anything like that?

@ the homer. i have address all you have said and ready to address all you want to know. ask about anything and on any thing bothering you. there is an answer and you will be getting answer

Uyi Iredia:

If God told you to kill your fellow human today, would you do it ? Whilst it's not all hard-and-fast, the events narrated in the Pentateuch confute the idea of an all-good God from whom no evil comes, for it is most clear those commands encouraged evil.

we have come a very long way then is it not ?

If "today", thousands of years later, after the person (messiah) that all those laws then were given to protect and give an enabling evironment has come and set things straight, you are and can ask me such ^, it makes it all the more very interesting.

Meanwhile, take note that the Amalikites obeyed the instruction from who ever issued it then.

I wander why you think your question is relevant "today".

Should i disobey the messiah that was the essence of it all

thehomer:

Are you seriously considering what you're saying here? You're saying it is right that God commanded that all members of a tribe be killed because a few of them killed some people. Is this the correct judgement? Even human judges know better than to order that a murderer's wife and children also be killed because the man killed someone. All you're doing here is showing how evil and unjust this God of yours actually is.

Yeah, an eye witness account from you. No ?

Selective justice from you. No ?

Yeah! "Some people killed some people" indeed!
tell me more! it was not the national army of the Amalikite i guess that attacked the Jews, but "some people". Smh.

So that ^ justified it ? I see!

You can keep on feeding whatever you are feeding Dude.

"Killed some people" Interesting!

Now tell me, while this "some people" of the nation of Israel were being killed, in which nation was the remainder staying ?

Was it by any means possible that it was the whole nation that was being attacked and killed on their way in the wilderness ? And the nation could have been exterminated ?

Please mr "eye witness" account giver, fill in the blank spaces.

*sigh*

this seems like a waste of my time really.