@Op. Energy,force,universal laws(by which d earth is govern) spirit,Nature, the unseen etc. What ever you/we might choose to call it, l think for easier references it was named god. It is insanity for any faith or religion to assume the right(monopoly) knowledge of these elements(permit to use d word) mentioned above. The totality of 'THE ALL' is and shall ever remain a mystery to the Living. Do to others what you want them to do unto you, the golden rule. For those who are for/dispute the supernatural, let your experience be your authority. My thought.

qstar:

If you want to woo a girl, will you send someone else to do that for you?

Go and tell your deity that we are tired of "hear-say". If he/they/it/she really loves us and wants us to love it/him/them back, let it come and do the wooing. We are tired of third-party apologists. Tell the boss to come, I am waiting.

Bros! Hehehe! If you are tired, then be tired na. Affiliation to any religion is not by force na. Logically, non-alignment to any of the religions is in itself a religion with you being the God or deity of yourself. So bros serve yourself and let those who believe there is a God to be served serve their God.

When a preacher of another deity seems to woo you simply announce yourself as God and I believe any right thinking preacher will let you be.

So bros stop waiting for the boss. If the boss exists he'd have spoken a long time ago before you became a hardened atheist or it may be that he's speaking but you really do not want to hear the 'tales by moonlight' that he has to say...so bros serve yourself and if you are lucky you may get some others to serve you as their God too...that would be a lot of fun you know

efficiencie:


When a preacher of another deity seems to woo you simply announce yourself as God and I believe any right thinking preacher will let you be.

Do you have comprehension issues? or you're just being slow?

emotional: @Op. Energy,force,universal laws(by which d earth is govern) spirit,Nature, the unseen etc. What ever you/we might choose to call it, l think for easier references it was named god. It is insanity for any faith or religion to assume the right(monopoly) knowledge of these elements(permit to use d word) mentioned above. The totality of 'THE ALL' is and shall ever remain a mystery to the Living. Do to others what you want them to do unto you, the golden rule. For those who are for/dispute the supernatural, let your experience be your authority. My thought.

logically and empirically speaking, if the bold portion of your assertion holds, then more than 99% of the world's population must be insane. This is because every philosophical stance concerning religion is a religion in itself and the fact that a person has a religious stance be it pantheism, polytheism, monotheism all connotes a lack of disharmony with all other religious stances and hence conveys a sense the immutability and total corrigibility.

So you see sir, going by logic and empirics, your bold comment implies that all of those that posted comments on this thread, Christians, Muslims, Atheist, Agnostics, Gnostics, Pantheists (like you sir), Polytheists and so called pagans are all INSANE including me sir!

qstar:

Do you have comprehension issues? or you're just being slow?

Bros, to sum up your argument. You require that God speak for himself instead of using flawed third parties!

Lol bros, lighten up! We are just stating our positions. My response is summed up in this argument:

there are two possibilities. it is either God exists or he doesn't. the former premise presents another two possibilities: it's either he has been speaking and you somehow for whatever reason have not listened or he has decided to speak via flawed third parties who do not have the mettle by your standards to convince your highly 'upright state of mind' or he has altogether refused to speak. The conclusion sir, is that it is either God exists and is speaking but you do not buy the bullshit he's giving you or he does not exist all

...either way I conclude that you must be the God of yourself. Only a God would believe that there is no other God or that his words either directly or indirectly are just another 'tales by moonlight' that do not fit the facts that your 'upright state of mind' can grasp and comprehend. Lol bro, no hard feelings, we are just stating our positions

efficiencie:

there are two possibilities. it is either God exists or he doesn't. the former premise presents another two possibilities: it's either he has been speaking and you somehow for whatever reason have not listened or he has decided to speak via flawed third parties who do not have the mettle by your standards to convince your highly 'upright state of mind' or he has altogether refused to speak. The conclusion sir, is that it is either God exists and is speaking but you do not buy the bullshit he's giving you or he does not exist all

Ok bro. I'm sorry if you thought i was being proud. Please forgive me. But, which of the Gods do you serve? Allah, Sango, Jesus, Bhrama, Odin or Amadioha?

Please, make your reply to be brief.

qstar:


Ok bro. I'm sorry if you thought i was being proud. Please forgive me. But, which of the Gods do you serve? Allah, Sango, Jesus, Bhrama, Odin or Amadioha?

Please, make your reply to be brief.

I serve the Trinity! The Father, the Son (Jesus Christ) and the Seven Fold Holy Spirit.

efficiencie:

I serve the Trinity! The Father, the Son (Jesus Christ) and the Seven Fold Holy Spirit.

In sum, you serve nine gods. Are you a polytheist?

qstar:

In sum, you serve nine gods. Are you a polytheist?

well bro we sum differently. Polytheism suggests divine structure just as Christianity suggests divine structure...Polytheists such as those of the Yoruba tribe, believe in one supreme being 'OLODUMARE' who is himself worshipped by other lesser gods (ORISHA) who happen to be mediators such as: sango, obatala, sopona, oya, osun, ogun etc but in Pantheism these lesser deities are not considered to be in the same class as: 'OLODUMARE' the supreme being...in contrast to Christianity, The Holy Spirit is seven but yet one (Revelations 5:6), the Father gave birth to Jesus (John 3: 16) and Jesus is one with the Father (John 10: 30). So you see, in Christianity we serve a FAMILY and not a UNITARY DEITY...and since they exist in a FAMILY they are ONE! They act CONSISTENTLY with eachother, have the same goals, the same emotions, the same thoughts, the STANDARDS.

Hence I am not a polytheist who serve gods that are not in the class of their supreme being...rather i serve a FAMILY that is ONE!

The GOD I serve defies logic and often times Christians are often acclaimed to be the EPITOME OF STUPIDITY but yet I am glad to be considered a member of this group characterized with STUPIDITY...So you see I BELIEVE IN GOD, if i had logical and empirical proofs of who GOD was then it would be unnecessary to BELIEVE (Hebrews 11:6)

you may wonder why Jesus was killed. He was killed because of his definition of oneness. The Jews without revelation knowledge defended the concept of a unitary God, hence defining oneness mathematically but when Jesus came and identified himself as the son of God, the Jews understood this a violation of a unit God because if what Jesus said was true then Jesus would be in the same class as God and the concept of a unitary God in mathematical terms would be refuted. The Jews recognized this as blasphemy and promptly executed him.

So you see the Jews like the Muslims hold the view of a unitary God with the conceptualization being underpinned by arithmetic or the science of numbers but Jesus made us understand that the oneness he spoke of was not based on arithmetic but rather a UNION, a BOND, a FAMILY so tightly knit that they are always in PERFECT HARMONY!

Jesus is, was and will always be at the centre of all religious controversy...and I believe only he can unravel the truth and if it is said that he will be coming back again to this world, then the whole world will get to know the truth albeit some with JOY and some others with SORROW...

efficiencie: Jesus is, was and will always be at the centre of all religious controversy...and I believe only he can unravel the truth and if it is said that he will be coming back again to this world, then the whole world will get to know the truth albeit some with JOY and some others with SORROW...

Allah will bring the world to an end. He is the one and supreme God. Once you believe there is only but one God, you have acknowledged Allah. He loves you and he's always waiting for you to repent of your "evil" ways and come to him.

When he comes, the whole world will get to know the truth albeit some with JOY and some others with SORROW.

Give him a chance in your life before it's too late.

efficiencie:

logically and empirically speaking, if the bold portion of your assertion holds, then more than 99% of the world's population must be insane. This is because every philosophical stance concerning religion is a religion in itself and the fact that a person has a religious stance be it pantheism, polytheism, monotheism all connotes a lack of disharmony with all other religious stances and hence conveys a sense the immutability and total corrigibility.

So you see sir, going by logic and empirics, your bold comment implies that all of those that posted comments on this thread, Christians, Muslims, Atheist, Agnostics, Gnostics, Pantheists (like you sir), Polytheists and so called pagans are all INSANE including me sir!

in other word, if your religion claim to be the only faith that has the total right knowledge of what is call god(THE ALL)then is insanity. my 1
cent.


I regard all the theories, guesses and
speculations of the theologians and metaphysicians regarding the inner
nature of THE ALL, as but the childish efforts of mortal minds to grasp
the secret of the Infinite. Such efforts have always failed and will always
fail, from the very nature of the task. One pursuing such inquiries travels
around and around in the labyrinth of thought, until he is lost to all sane
reasoning, action or conduct, and is utterly unfitted for the work of life.
He is like the squirrel which frantically runs around and around the
circling treadmill wheel of his cage, traveling ever and yet reaching
nowhere — at the end a prisoner still, and standing just where he
started. 'THE THREE INITIATES' said it better

emotional: I regard all the theories, guesses and
speculations of the theologians and
metaphysicians regarding the inner
nature of THE ALL, as but the childish efforts of
mortal minds to grasp
the secret of the Infinite.

The aforementioned sums up your stance and it I believe you believe that your stance is infallible and superior to all other contrary philosophical cum religious stances. Does that not make you very much like qstar and I who by our comments uphold the tenets of our respective religions as infallible and globally superior!? So you see you'll also be hurt by your conclusion that the veneration of a religion as the one and only source of truth is tantamount to INSANITY!

In the end sir we are all MAD in relation to another with a contrary religion...This is quite logical and is proximally connected to the concept of 'culture shock' in sociological discource.

qstar: Allah will bring the world to an end. He is the
one and supreme God. Once you believe there is
only but one God, you have acknowledged Allah.
He loves you and he's always waiting for you to
repent of your "evil" ways and come to him.

Bro! many believe there's one God and yet do not accept Allah as their God or muhammed as their prophet. The Jews accept the unit God doctrine and follow Moses. The Jehova witness accept the unit God doctrine but do not recognize muhammed, the Ecks accept the unit God doctrine but they worship 'sugmad' and not Allah...so you see bro you may be wrong there.

Qstar, i have served God as the Trinity and i have never felt so loved. At times my father punishes me only to draw me near again and teach me not to err again. Jesus taught me what love meant and gave me the privilege to love everyone irrespective of tribe, ethnicity, religion or race. The HolyGhost speaks to me, warns me of danger, gives me the words when i'm speechless and opens the mysteries of the truth to me with almost graphic details often times...and the HolyGhost has manifested the great gifts of tongues, prophecy, faith, teaching and words of wisdom and knowlege all through me...WHAT MORE DO I NEED...I have everything I need because I have the HolyGhost in my heart!

@efficiencie. Pls tell me, what makes your faith the only true religion?

efficiencie:

well bro we sum differently. Polytheism suggests divine structure just as Christianity suggests divine structure...Polytheists such as those of the Yoruba tribe, believe in one supreme being 'OLODUMARE' who is himself worshipped by other lesser gods (ORISHA) who happen to be mediators such as: sango, obatala, sopona, oya, osun, ogun etc but in Pantheism these lesser deities are not considered to be in the same class as: 'OLODUMARE' the supreme being...in contrast to Christianity, The Holy Spirit is seven but yet one (Revelations 5:6), the Father gave birth to Jesus (John 3: 16) and Jesus is one with the Father (John 10: 30). So you see, in Christianity we serve a FAMILY and not a UNITARY DEITY...and since they exist in a FAMILY they are ONE! They act CONSISTENTLY with eachother, have the same goals, the same emotions, the same thoughts, the STANDARDS.

Hence I am not a polytheist who serve gods that are not in the class of their supreme being...rather i serve a FAMILY that is ONE!

The GOD I serve defies logic and often times Christians are often acclaimed to be the EPITOME OF STUPIDITY but yet I am glad to be considered a member of this group characterized with STUPIDITY...So you see I BELIEVE IN GOD, if i had logical and empirical proofs of who GOD was then it would be unnecessary to BELIEVE (Hebrews 11:6)

Lol u have not fully understood the concept of Olodumare. Pls don't use Olodumare as example.

the very fact that christianity doesn't appeal to it's adherents to seek knowledge in rationality and logic shows it is false...
Why is jehovah afraid of humans being intelligent?
He even punished Adam because he wanted to be intelligent and knowledgeable

macof:


Lol u have not fully understood the concept of Olodumare. Pls don't use Olodumare as example.

the very fact that christianity doesn't appeal to it's adherents to seek knowledge in rationality and logic shows it is false...
Why is jehovah afraid of humans being intelligent?
He even punished Adam because he wanted to be intelligent and knowledgeable

Educate us bro, if you have a contrary or nesting conceptualization of the Yoruba polytheistic belief!

My brother, sociology teaches that it is erroneous to judge the rightness or the wrongness (permit my choice of words) of the culture or tenets of another based on yours.

Your philosophical cum religious stance enshrines and venerates reason and empirics above any conceptualization of God. Another person's stance deifies an entity other than self, reason or empirics. One cannot validly and objectively invalidate one on the basis of another with the use of the scientific method of inquiry. Such arguments are in the slippery realm of normative thought.

So sir, worship reason and empirics as your God while I venerate the Trinity as my God!

emotional: @efficiencie. Pls tell me, what makes your faith the only true religion?

It would be an exercise in futility sir. We are in the realm of normative thought and thus its practically impossible for me to state a formal proof that my faith is the true faith!

That is why it is called a 'faith', it is inextricably tied to my belief and believing requires accepting a proposition without proof or the prospects of proof.

So sir, if you won't believe, it is futile for me to put up a spirited defense of my faith!

And if i can't present a formal proof, it's useless asserting the truthfulness of my faith unless we both appeal to higher realm of discourse where formal scientific proofs break down.

Remember if God exists he must be Spirit and if he's Spirit then our proofs of God must be spiritual and not scientific!

@efficiencie. D fact is,u got none. One of d reasons l dumped christianity. Not scientific proof sir, far from it.

efficiencie:

well bro we sum differently. Polytheism suggests divine structure just as Christianity suggests divine structure...Polytheists such as those of the Yoruba tribe, believe in one supreme being 'OLODUMARE' who is himself worshipped by other lesser gods (ORISHA) who happen to be mediators such as: sango, obatala, sopona, oya, osun, ogun etc but in Pantheism these lesser deities are not considered to be in the same class as: 'OLODUMARE' the supreme being...in contrast to Christianity, The Holy Spirit is seven but yet one (Revelations 5:6), the Father gave birth to Jesus (John 3: 16) and Jesus is one with the Father (John 10: 30). So you see, in Christianity we serve a FAMILY and not a UNITARY DEITY...and since they exist in a FAMILY they are ONE! They act CONSISTENTLY with eachother, have the same goals, the same emotions, the same thoughts, the STANDARDS.

Hence I am not a polytheist who serve gods that are not in the class of their supreme being...rather i serve a FAMILY that is ONE!

The GOD I serve defies logic and often times Christians are often acclaimed to be the EPITOME OF STUPIDITY but yet I am glad to be considered a member of this group characterized with STUPIDITY...So you see I BELIEVE IN GOD, if i had logical and empirical proofs of who GOD was then it would be unnecessary to BELIEVE (Hebrews 11:6)

I have a question concerning ur statement....."They act CONSISTENTLY with eachother, have the same goals, the same emotions, the same thoughts, the STANDARDS."
What you are saying is that God,Jesus and holy spirit all have the same goals emotions and thoughts,then that means they must all agree on issues at all times. Right?

Can you then explain Why Jesus was crying on the mountain before he was crucified that the cup should be lifted off his head? Why was Jesus crying? It could only mean that he didn't want to be crucified....But God wanted him to be crucified, So how do they share the same thoughts emotions and goals when they dont even agree on crucifixion?

Saying that god exists without any proof is as valid as saying that dragons or unicorns exist. The extent to which we are bothered about its existence is the extent to which we have been exposed to god-ish indoctrination. I wouldnt say (and I hope no other rational person would) that unicorns exist because I read about them in some fairy tales or that dragons exists because I see them in my dreams. What exist in the rational world needs no proof of its existence. The fact that god's existence needs proof is a flag for any rational thinker. I sure do not need any proof to know that the Sun exists! Anytime you hear people say " I believe God exist....be alarmed at the flag! We do not usually describe things whose existence we are sure of like that!
And it is logically wrong to put atheist and agnostics in the same group. One denies the existence of any supernatural deity and while the other doubts its existence!
Please do not be troubled by what does not exist for that is the sole aim of religion!

efficiencie:

It would be an exercise in futility sir. We are in the realm of normative thought and thus its practically impossible for me to state a formal proof that my faith is the true faith!

That is why it is called a 'faith', it is inextricably tied to my belief and believing requires accepting a proposition without proof or the prospects of proof.

So sir, if you won't believe, it is futile for me to put up a spirited defense of my faith!

And if i can't present a formal proof, it's useless asserting the truthfulness of my faith unless we both appeal to higher realm of discourse where formal scientific proofs break down.

Remember if God exists he must be Spirit and if he's Spirit then our proofs of God must be spiritual and not scientific!

Any proposition that must be accepted without proof is outside the realm of logic! It cannot be debated, it is simply outside the realm of philosophy and religion prides itself in making such odious assertions. How do you argue about things that do not exist? There is no internal consistency in the concept of god. Just as a thing cannot be black and white at the same time, god cannot be omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient at the same time. If I tell you that I am white and black at the same time, you wouldn't take my arguments serious! Saying that you can make propositions without the responsibility of proof is so anti-logical, it's a slap on reason and only people that are intellectually lazy resort to such antics.

Sombrerogalaxy:
Saying that you can make propositions without the responsibility of proof is so anti-logical, it's a slap on reason and only people that are intellectually lazy resort to such antics.

Even Christians confirm it that their god is illogical.
So, god is crazy!

efficiencie:

Educate us bro, if you have a contrary or nesting conceptualization of the Yoruba polytheistic belief!

My brother, sociology teaches that it is erroneous to judge the rightness or the wrongness (permit my choice of words) of the culture or tenets of another based on yours.

Your philosophical cum religious stance enshrines and venerates reason and empirics above any conceptualization of God. Another person's stance deifies an entity other than self, reason or empirics. One cannot validly and objectively invalidate one on the basis of another with the use of the scientific method of inquiry. Such arguments are in the slippery realm of normative thought.

So sir, worship reason and empirics as your God while I venerate the Trinity as my God!

to discuss Olodumare would derail the thread


you didn't address my post, how can we say jehovah exist when we can't use Evidence or logic to prove it's existence??

I can tell u, a flying spaghetti created humanity and all things in the universe, it doesn't sound less childish and silly than the jehovah story
Because basically, jehovah is jst a being floating somewhere in the sky

emotional: @Op. Energy,force,universal laws(by which d earth is govern) spirit,Nature, the unseen etc. What ever you/we might choose to call it, l think for easier references it was named god. It is insanity for any faith or religion to assume the right(monopoly) knowledge of these elements(permit to use d word) mentioned above. The totality of 'THE ALL' is and shall ever remain a mystery to the Living. Do to others what you want them to do unto you, the golden rule. For those who are for/dispute the supernatural, let your experience be your authority. My thought.

True. Gods are simply Energies personified

And it's insanity for a sect to claim absolute authority and knowledge on even one form of energy talkless of the entire mysteries of the vast universe

LandLord1: God has promised to end evil and suffering. You should be concerned about working out your salvation with fear and trembling. The Lord Jesus is not coming to save those who criticize his word and who do not fear him. I ask.....what does it mean for you to call someone GOD?. The mystery of God(the creator of heaven and earth) cannot be understood by mere mortals. It's like trying to put an ocean or let me say large body of waters into a small hole. If you continue like this without going to the creator for answers to your questions and if you keep pondering over them, You Will Lose Your Mind. Like any serious student maybe in a university or sec school with a time table, God also has his own time table and you must know or realize that he has promise to end evil, pain and suffering. It pains me people only read the bible to pinpoint and look for way to criticize the creator. I mean the book of revelation clearly presents and points how God intends to end all evils and put his own government on the earth through his son-THE LORD JESUS CHRIST. He knows the beginning from the end. It's awesome how a Boxer for instance clearly presents the way he is gonna defeat his opponents. Mind you, The Lord Jesus is not the counterpart of the devil(the devil is too small). If you truly need answers to your questions go to the creator, go to the HOLY SPIRIT. Jeremiah 33:3- Call Unto Me and I will answer You And Show You Great And Mighty Which Thou Knowest Not.

And you know all this how?? From reading the work of another man or from hearing directly from God??

many are just arguing for the sake of arguing!

i have stated countless times that 'faith' exists in a realm not accessible to logic and empirics. Debates over which faith is true should and must not exist in the realm of scientific thought.

And to the likes of emotional who keep stating that the view that one philosophical cum religious stance is superior to another amounts to insanity are also culprits of their own assertion.

I guess i must go logical to state my point:

observe my lines of argument and critize its coherence

premise 1 p(1): religion A is the true religion

premise 2 p(2): religion B is the true religion

premise 3 p(3): proponents that assert the superiority of a religion over others are INSANE

where
A denotes Christianity or any other religion other than Pantheism

B denotes Pantheism

Now emotional and the likes of him states that:

p(1) ∧ p(2) = φ which is a contradiction

p(1)→p(3) meaning p(1) implies p(3)
and as a matter of necessity

p(2)→p(3) meaning that p(2) also implies p(3)

both statements according to the rules

~p(1) ∨ p(3) = p(1) → p(3)

~p(2) ∨ p(3) = p(2) → p(3)

meaning that it's neither p(1) nor p(2) are true or p(3) is true.

So sir if it's madness stating that Christianity is the only true religion, it is also madness stating that Pantheism (your religious stance) is the only true religion.

It would have been wonderful if the debaters here were half as logical as they claim they are and quit making essentialist arguments!

macof:

to discuss Olodumare would derail the thread


you didn't address my post, how can we say jehovah exist when we can't use Evidence or logic to prove it's existence??

I can tell u, a flying spaghetti created humanity and all things in the universe, it doesn't sound less childish and silly than the jehovah story
Because basically, jehovah is jst a being floating somewhere in the sky

well sir you must understand that proofs are subject to the 'field' within which you operate.

In plane geometry, the sum of angles in a triangle equals 180 but in geodesy the sum may exceed 180!

In a real field, √-1 does not exist but in a complex field
√-1=i

if a spherical ball falls through a 2-d world a transition from a dot to a full circle and later to dot would be observed but in a 3-d world the entity remains constant

Bro what's my point, you may ask! God is an entity yond our much narrow dimension and hence you can't validly use the scientific method, and it's sequence of refutations and corroborations according to Karl Popper, to prove or disprove the existence of God!

That's why belief exist! So no one can say i have a valid scientific proof of who God is and hence which religion is true, we only have our beliefs!

So hold on to yours while i hold on to mine...in the end, we'll know who's right and who's wrong!

Dapo777:

I have a question concerning ur statement....."They act CONSISTENTLY with eachother, have the same goals, the same emotions, the same thoughts, the STANDARDS."
What you are saying is that God,Jesus and holy spirit all have the same goals emotions and thoughts,then that means they must all agree on issues at all times. Right?

Can you then explain Why Jesus was crying on the mountain before he was crucified that the cup should be lifted off his head? Why was Jesus crying? It could only mean that he didn't want to be crucified....But God wanted him to be crucified, So how do they share the same thoughts emotions and goals when they dont even agree on crucifixion?

Bro Dapo, as far as you are concerned God is a hoax, another cheap scheme to cheat you...so no matter how compelling my argument is to you it would sound like the mindless rambling of an presumptuous fool...so bro Dapo, be WISE and let folks like me remain a FOOL...

qstar:

Even Christians confirm it that their god is illogical.
So, god is crazy!

YES! my God has to be CRAZY!!!

To a 1st century man, an aeroplane would be MADNESS in action

Even the like of Pythagoras with all their sagacity would have considered mobile telephony WITCHCRAFT

Sir we operate in different dimensions, so you see it is necessary for my GOD to be ABSOLUTELY CRAZY in relation to you...lol

efficiencie:

YES! my God has to be CRAZY!!!

To a 1st century man, an aeroplane would be MADNESS in action

Even the like of Pythagoras with all their sagacity would have considered mobile telephony WITCHCRAFT

Sir we operate in different dimensions, so you see it is necessary for my GOD to be ABSOLUTELY CRAZY in relation to you...lol

Guy, bye bye. I thought god had better employees