OneJ:


Yes, Jesus said "honour the son ,even as you honour the father".
Also, "honour your mother and your father".
U dey worship your mama & papa?

Jesus said ".... the true worshippers will WORSHIP THE FATHER IN SPIRIT & TRUTH". Jesus did not include himself. John 4:23,24

Even the angel agreed "Worship God" Rev 22:9.
Jehovah is a very Jealous God.
Abeg , leave Jesus for him lane. Give him honour ,but worship " the God& Father of our Lord ,Jesus Christ" Ephesians 1:3
Shalom.

Jesus said we should honor him just as we honor his Father. This means that any honor due to his Father can be directed to him too. Don't you understand that? Isn't that why God directed the angels to worship him?

There is no where it is stated that we are to honor our parents the same way we honor God or even Jesus. It simply states that we should honor our parents. This means we are to honor then the way parents are Honored. But when we honor Jesus, we are to honor him the way we honor God.

alBHAGDADI:
Jesus said we should honor him just as we honor his Father. This means that any honor due to his Father can be directed to him too. Don't you understand that? Isn't that why God directed the angels to worship him?

There is no where it is stated that we are to honor our parents the same way we honor God or even Jesus. It simply states that we should honor our parents. This means we are to honor then the way parents are Honored. But when we honor Jesus, we are to honor him the way we honor God.

Sometimes these Trinity fallacy peddlers, una dey make me laf sotaay .....

Honour God,honour Jesus ,honour your mother and father.... na the same .pari pasu.

U can't honour God & Jesus if U fail to honour your parents.

Let's think seriously.
It's contradictory for Jehovah to give the command "Fear Jehovah/Yahweh your God, serve HIM ALONE" , (a Jealous God for that matter. Deut 6:13) & later command " Let all God's angels worship him" (Jesus).
But GOD can never make mistake. Check am na !


In Hebrews 1:6 the Greek word "Proskyneo" is right there, it's basic meaning is to prostrate yourself on the floor towards the kabiyesi or bow down to kiss the feet of someone as homage or reverence.

Proskyneo is also found at Matt14:33 ,it says Jesus apostles in the boat "bowed down before him". In the Greek Septuagint at Genesis 23:7 "Abraham rose & bowed down (proskyneo) before the people of the land,the Hittites".

in the context of Hebrews 1:1-6, we see that Christ held a subordinate position in relation to his God,his Father. Therefore, the more accurate rendition is : " God says, Let all angels bow down to him" (Jesus ) because "God exalted him.... at the name of Jesus every knee should bow in heaven & on earth..."
Phil 2:9,10.

Jehovah ,the Jealous God does not give. anyone access to share his exclusive devotion.
Worship Jehovah God, but honour Jesus Christ,the only the mediator between God & man.

OneJ:


Sometimes these Trinity fallacy peddlers, una dey make me laf sotaay .....

Honour God,honour Jesus ,honour your mother and father.... na the same .pari pasu.

U can't honour God & Jesus if U fail to honour your parents.

Let's think seriously.
It's contradictory for Jehovah to give the command "Fear Jehovah/Yahweh your God, serve HIM ALONE" , (a Jealous God for that matter. Deut 6:13) & later command " Let all God's angels worship him" (Jesus).
But GOD can never make mistake. Check am na !


In Hebrews 1:6 the Greek word "Proskyneo" is right there, it's basic meaning is to prostrate yourself on the floor towards the kabiyesi or bow down to kiss the feet of someone as homage or reverence.

Proskyneo is also found at Matt14:33 ,it says Jesus apostles in the boat "bowed down before him". In the Greek Septuagint at Genesis 23:7 "Abraham rose & bowed down (proskyneo) before the people of the land,the Hittites".

in the context of Hebrews 1:1-6, we see that Christ held a subordinate position in relation to his God,his Father. Therefore, the more accurate rendition is : " God says, Let all angels bow down to him" (Jesus ) because "God exalted him.... at the name of Jesus every knee should bow in heaven & on earth..."
Phil 2:9,10.

Jehovah ,the Jealous God does not give. anyone access to share his exclusive devotion.
Worship Jehovah God, but honour Jesus Christ,the only the mediator between God & man.

Don't you see the clear difference between honoring parents and honoring Jesus? We are to honor parents the way parents are to be honored, but Jesus is honored just as God is honored. We don't honor parents as God is honored.

You go on ranting that God is a jealous God and would never share His glory. I never said Jesus is Yahweh. They are two different being plus the holy spirit all in one office of God.

Now, if Yahweh doesn't share His glory, how come Jesus is using terminologies used to address God Alone?

Who is the first and the last?


Isaiah 44:6
New International Version
"This is what the LORD says-- Israel's King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty: I am the FIRST and I am the LAST; apart from me there is no God.

Revelations 1:17-18
When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the FIRST and the LAST. I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.

Can you tell us what Jesus meant when he took a title that can only be applied to God and applied it to himself? If he wasn't claiming to be God, then what was he doing?


Who is the Truth?

Psalm 31:5
Into thine hand I commit my spirit: thou hast redeemed me, O LORD God of TRUTH.


John 14:6
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the TRUTH and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

At this point, don't you find it strange that Jesus keeps applying the names of God to himself?

Does God share his glory?

Isaiah 42:7
"I am the LORD; that is my name! I will not give my glory to anyone else, nor share my praise with carved idols.

Clearly, no Prophet will say he will be glorified with God let alone say he had glory with God before the world was created. But that is what Jesus said.

John 17:5
And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.


Look, not only do angels worship him, he also sends them on assignments. You can see that below as he comes in great glory, the type he had with the father from the beginning.

Mathew 24:30


And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

alBHAGDADI:
Read below.

The Scripture teaches that death is not the end of existence. The Bible says that the spirit, or soul, of humans will exist forever. This brings up the issue of immortality. If human beings are going to live forever, does this mean they are immortal? If humans are immortal, then in what sense do they have immortality?

God Alone

Immortality means not subject to death. The Bible says God alone has immortality.

Who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no person has seen or can see ( 1 Timothy 6:16 )

In this passage we see that immortality is something that is part and parcel with the nature of God. He alone has it. The Scripture teaches that only God has life in Himself.
For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself ( John 5:26 ).
Only God is deathless in His essence. He alone is immortal in this sense of the term.

Imparted By God

Yet the Bible says that immortality is something that God imparts to believers. The Old Testament taught that immortality would result by living righteously before God.
In the way of righteousness there is life; along that path is immortality ( Proverbs 12:28 ).

New Testament Teaching

The New Testament also says that God grants immortality to humans who trust in Him.

So when this corruptible has but on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: 'Death is swallowed up in victory' ( 1 Corinthians 15:53 ,54).

From this passage we discover three things about immortality.

1. Immortality is given only to believers, there is no mention of unbelievers receiving it. Therefore it is more than endless existence.
2. It is a gift from God that believers will receive in the future at Christ's coming.
3. Immortality refers not only to the soul or spirit, but the body is also included. Believers become immortal when this mortal body puts on an immortal one.

Brought By Christ
God the Son, Jesus Christ, brought immortality to the believer.
but it has now been revealed through the appearing of our Savior, Christ Jesus, who has destroyed death and has brought life and immortality to light through the gospel ( 2 Timothy 1:10 ).

Not Immortal By Nature

Therefore, according to the Bible, humanity is not immortal by nature. The human soul, or spirit, survives death, but the body does not. Immortality is achieved when the body of the believer is raised and transformed and then united with the soul.

Immortal Inheritance

Christians have an immortal inheritance awaiting them.
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! By His great mercy He has given us a new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, and into an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you ( 1 Peter 1:3 ,4 ).

Its like you drink Coke ? didn't you admit above that Soul survive death

I never ask you for this epistle, I asked a very direct question : Is Jesus an Immortal SOUL ?

From the above your answer is Yes , alBHAGDADI

It means Jesus never died ( He is Immortal ) , only his body died .

Jozzy4:


Its like you drink Coke ?

I never ask you for this epistle, I asked a very direct question : Is Jesus an Immortal SOUL ?

I you can't decipher the answer from the explanation and Bible verses I gave, then that's your cup of tea. Perhaps, you wanted me to give a one word answer so you can use that to rope me. To avoid that, I decided to give you a detailed epistle that will prevent you from asking further questions, because a one word answer won't explain my standpoint.

Jozzy4:

?

From the above your answer is Yes , alBHAGDADI

It means Jesus never died ( He is Immortal ) , only his body died .

Exactly why I asked earlier that "why do you JW say man seizes to exist when he dies?". Here you are admiting that the soul never dies. So where does it go after the body dies? We know Jesus went to hell, which you guys don't believe in. So, where did his immortal soul go after death?

search4truth:
It is now clear that the JWs commenting on this thread are only here to blindly defend the organization. I raised some points on my original post in the first page about why i felt the organization is not the so called Truth as they claim but yet they ignored those points but instead started trying to force us to show them a better organization.
That wasn't my point of creating the thread. And i never created the thread for these JWs commenting here that can't think outside what they learn in the organization because even if they see a clear evidence of wrong things going on in the organization they would probably try to cover it up or just defend the organization.
Thats how one said they don't report child abusers in the organization, that they leave the case to Jehovah. But if the case was about a catholic child abuser you would see them saying all sort against catholics and why people should get out of the religion just like the screenshot i posted in some pages behind where the watchtower badmouths
the catholics and the leaders. but they themselves are actually hiding child abusers in the organization claiming to leave the case to Jehovah.

Imagine using a two witness rule in the case of rape of a minor. So, if no other person was there while the minor was raped then the rapist is not guilty(he also has to lie he didn't do it).Does that even make any sense?

So to the aggressive JWs in this thread, the thread is actually meant for Critical thinking JWs and not those that are comfortable being constantly brainwashed.


Note That
"The majority of growth is coming from developing countries in Africa and South America. In 2016, 70% of the increase in average publishers came from just 7 countries, Angola 10k, Brazil 21k, Ecuador 3k, Ghana 4k, Mexico 11k, Rep. of Congo 34k and Nigeria 3k. On the other hand, developed countries with the highest level of wealth, education and internet access to information regarding Watchtower have little to no growth. In 2016, many of these countries reported less publishers than previous year peaks, including Britain, Australia, Germany, Italy, USA, Canada and Japan"
Source for the bolded--- www.jwfacts.com

Please Sir/Ma,the topic of your thread reads "Jehovah's witnesses that claims they are the only true Christians, please come in" So what is your motive for opening the thread? Are you emphatically disqualifying a single religious group? Are you saying all religions claiming Christians are good to go? Are you saying there are no TRUE Christians in this end time? Or Are you saying that TRUE Christians are scattered in virtually all forms of religion claiming Christians so that they can't congregate together for a common goal? Please without clarifications on these thought provoking questions,sincere followers of your thread are left with nothing better than confusion!

TATIME:
You love arguments my friend! But true Christians learn when they see something they never noticed before. (1) Jesus knew all that was to happen to the Messiah as everything has been predestined and prophesied before His coming to the earth,to that you agreed but please why will He now pray for the pain to be taken away? You said "NO HUMAN WILL BE WILLING TO FACE SUCH HORRIBLE DEATH" Well my friend that is a lie because Hananiah,Mishael and Azariah(Shadrach Meshach and Abednego) were READY to face the excruciating pains of Nebuchadnezzar's burning furnace! They were humans my friend. So it was indeed a mistake on Jesus' part but He quickly correct Himself. (2) The John's account recorded it that those thugs "fell to the groud" at the voice of Jesus,hmmmmmmmm please was it something that pushed them because that place didn't say they staggered backward but "FELL to the ground"! Please go back and study what that text means because at Revelations 1:17 there John used the same text When Jesus appeared to him, he(John the Apostle) fell down as DEAD!(3) The question there is " has God ever forsaken any of HIS loyal ones who has remained faithful to HIM always? " if yes then Jesus(God's only begotten son) never uttered anything wrong but if NO is the answer then that was a MISTAKE! Moreover this is not from the Watchtower as i have said earlier it was from my own personal study,so take note of that.

Who is this? Where are you from to be able to speak so glibly but highly ignorantly of Jesus making mistakes?

First, the man Jesus is God in human flesh. John 1:1,14. He was God incarnate. To say Jesus made mistakes is to say God made mistakes.

The sayings of Jesus in the gospels are not written for you to interpreted for PERSONAL INTERPRETATION. That will be knocking on the door of heresy.


2 Peter 1:20
[20]Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

No where in the entire scriptures speaks of Jesus making mistakes. The Prophets never said so... The Apostles, inspired by God's Spirit, never said so... Where have you gotten your own inspiration from?


See the man Jesus described throughout...

Isaiah spoke of Him

Isaiah 53:9
[9]... because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

Peter:
1 Peter 2:21-22
[21]For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
[22]Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:


Writer of Hebrews:
Hebrews 4:15
[15]For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

The Apostle John:
1 John 3:5
[5]And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

The Apostle Paul:
2 Corinthians 5:21
[21]For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.


Those were posts inspired by God's Spirit. That is the truth in the Bible...


Why have you chosen to twist narratives to suit your error? Why

Aren't the scriptures clear enough...?

damosky12:


Who is this? Where are you from to be able to speak so glibly but highly ignorantly of Jesus making mistakes?

First, the man Jesus is God in human flesh. John 1:1,14. He was God incarnate. To say Jesus made mistakes is to say God made mistakes.

The sayings of Jesus in the gospels are not written for you to interpreted for PERSONAL INTERPRETATION. That will be knocking on the door of heresy.


2 Peter 1:20
[20]Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

No where in the entire scriptures speaks of Jesus making mistakes. The Prophets never said so... The Apostles, inspired by God's Spirit, never said so... Where have you gotten your own inspiration from?


See the man Jesus described throughout...

Isaiah spoke of Him

Isaiah 53:9
[9]... because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

Peter:
1 Peter 2:21-22
[21]For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
[22]Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:


Writer of Hebrews:
Hebrews 4:15
[15]For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

The Apostle John:
1 John 3:5
[5]And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

The Apostle Paul:
2 Corinthians 5:21
[21]For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.


Those were posts inspired by God's Spirit. That is the truth in the Bible...


Why have you chosen to twist narratives to suit your error? Why

Aren't the scriptures clear enough...?

If you're having a problem with the title God, first you need to understand that those inspired writers never distinguished the titles by capital or small letters so because the TRANSLATORS used capital or small letters to suit their own understanding of the scriptures never meant that's what the inspired writers had in mind. So if you find GOD,God or god in your Bible, know today that the inspired writers did not differentiate the title by the use of capital or small letters. The only difference is the name of each God. Moses was also a God in human body(Exodus 7:1) and Moses surely made mistakes,next time if you want to know something just ask questions instead of jumping into a podium that you can't comprehend the motives of the commentators.

TATIME:
If you're having a problem with the title God, first you need to understand that those inspired writers never distinguished the titles by capital or small letters so because the TRANSLATORS used capital or small letters to suit their own understanding of the scriptures never meant that's what the inspired writers had in mind. So if you find GOD,God or god in your Bible, know today that the inspired writers did not differentiate the title by the use of capital or small letters. The only difference is the name of each God. Moses was also a God in human body(Exodus 7:1) and Moses surely made mistakes,next time if you want to know something just ask questions instead of jumping into a podium that you can't comprehend the motives of the commentators.

Though I don't find this relevant to my reply..

Try and cut down on heresy a bit.... You probably never heard that CONTEXT is the king of Bible interpretation.

If you understood the context in which "god" was used in Exodus 7:1, you wouldn't try to make a mountain out of such an hill. No sane and honest Bible interpreter will mistakingly think that portion means Moses is equal with God. Why? The context is lucid! God said to Moses: "I HAVE MADE YOU A GOD BEFORE PHARAOH"...

The usage of "god" shouldn't confuse any sane human being here. HOWEVER, see this:

John 1:1
[1]In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

He existed with God at the beginning. No wonder Jesus could say:

John 8:58
[58]Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

John 17:21-22
[21]That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
[22]And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:


Jesus is God in human flesh. Jesus is God becoming a man.

TATIME:
If you're having a problem with the title God, first you need to understand that those inspired writers never distinguished the titles by capital or small letters so because the TRANSLATORS used capital or small letters to suit their own understanding of the scriptures never meant that's what the inspired writers had in mind. So if you find GOD,God or god in your Bible, know today that the inspired writers did not differentiate the title by the use of capital or small letters. The only difference is the name of each God. Moses was also a God in human body(Exodus 7:1) and Moses surely made mistakes,next time if you want to know something just ask questions instead of jumping into a podium that you can't comprehend the motives of the commentators.

The word "MISTAKE" is often in connection with events involving imperfect men err but it becomes controversial if it's applied in the case of a perfect being like Jesus. However with your clear explanation it's evident that Adam and the angels were also perfect creatures yet they erred, meaning perfect creatures can also err. So i've learnt a lesson from your comment TATIME that the ONLY person above error is the Creator that created perfect creatures and not the creatures made. All the same you have brought this to those who won't buy it no matter the evidence shown from the scriptures. It would have been appropriate if you're to be standing on a high pulpit spewing huge grammars as a motivational speaker with lofty titles as Pastor,Prophet,Archbishop,Apostle or Pope. That would have given you the pedigree to utter such a wonderful discovery. Thanks for the enlightenment, i now understood why many of us are still falling victims to sin as we find it difficult to understand that Jesus also fought hard to overcome the power of the flesh. Thank you TATIME

alBHAGDADI:
Don't you see the clear difference between honoring parents and honoring Jesus? We are to honor parents the way parents are to be honored, but Jesus is honored just as God is honored. We don't honor parents as God is honored.

You go on ranting that God is a jealous God and would never share His glory. I never said Jesus is Yahweh. They are two different being plus the holy spirit all in one office of God.

Now, if Yahweh doesn't share His glory, how come Jesus is using terminologies used to address God Alone?

Who is the first and the last?


Isaiah 44:6
New International Version
"This is what the LORD says-- Israel's King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty: I am the FIRST and I am the LAST; apart from me there is no God.

Revelations 1:17-18
When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the FIRST and the LAST. I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.

Can you tell us what Jesus meant when he took a title that can only be applied to God and applied it to himself? If he wasn't claiming to be God, then what was he doing?


Who is the Truth?

Psalm 31:5
Into thine hand I commit my spirit: thou hast redeemed me, O LORD God of TRUTH.


John 14:6
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the TRUTH and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

At this point, don't you find it strange that Jesus keeps applying the names of God to himself?

Does God share his glory?

Isaiah 42:7
"I am the LORD; that is my name! I will not give my glory to anyone else, nor share my praise with carved idols.

Clearly, no Prophet will say he will be glorified with God let alone say he had glory with God before the world was created. But that is what Jesus said.

John 17:5
And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.


Look, not only do angels worship him, he also sends them on assignments. You can see that below as he comes in great glory, the type he had with the father from the beginning.

Mathew 24:30


And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

.

U "never said that Jesus is Yahweh".
Good. That settled it.

U can't be on same level (or share equal status) with a superior who elevated U to a higher rank U never had before.

Comprehend?

Your claims amounts to saying that Joseph received intoto the same measure of authority, reverence ,homage etc that king pharaoh had,just because king pharaoh elevated Joseph to a very superior position.

"God exalted him to the highest place" that every knee should bow to Jesus to the glory of God the father" Phil 2:9-11.

Even if king pharaoh declared: " I hereby put you in charge of the whole land of Egypt. " ( Gen 41: 41-43)., Joseph still know him level in the same manner that Jesus knows that you "Worship Yahweh your God & SERVE HIM ONLY" matt 4:10.
No be by force to accept this truth.
Shalom

damosky12:



Though I don't find this relevant to my reply..

Try and cut down on heresy a bit.... You probably never heard that CONTEXT is the king of Bible interpretation.

If you understood the context in which "god" was used in Exodus 7:1, you wouldn't try to make a mountain out of such an hill. No sane and honest Bible interpreter will mistakingly think that portion means Moses is equal with God. Why? The context is lucid! God said to Moses: "I HAVE MADE YOU A GOD BEFORE PHARAOH"...

The usage of "god" shouldn't confuse any sane human being here. HOWEVER, see this:

John 1:1
[1]In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

He existed with God at the beginning. No wonder Jesus could say:

John 8:58
[58]Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

John 17:21-22
[21]That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
[22]And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:


Jesus is God in human flesh. Jesus is God becoming a man.

You're trying my friend but take note of one thing "in the beginning WAS the word,and the word WAS with God and the word WAS God" Jesus served as God at some time in the PAST just as Moses also served as God in the PAST but presently both Jesus and Moses must render account to the one who gave them the privilege to serve in that capacity. 1Corinthians 15:27,28 So presently Jesus is NO MORE serving as God but as an awaiting King to reign over the earth! That's why Isaiah used many titles to describe Jesus' various offices of duty. Isaiah 9:6

TATIME:
You're trying my friend but take note of one thing "in the beginning WAS the word,and the word WAS with God and the word WAS God"

Laughable... This is English language... Its like saying "I was with you in the beginning of the class...". Does that by any means infer that I am no longer with you?

You expected it to have said, " in the beginning IS the Word, and the Word IS with God and the Word IS God"


The translation chose past tense articles because it addressed the beginning of time.

Jesus served as God at some time in the PAST just as Moses also served as God in the PAST

In your own Bible, people served as God Are you doing a comedy here? Moses served as God?

Stop fusing things up chairman. God said HE made Moses a god to pharaoh ... By this, God CLEARLY means he (Moses) will represent HIM before pharaoh. Moses did not "serve" as God. He served God.

Jesus didn't serve as God. HE IS GOD.
See what John says of the Word, Jesus:
John 1:3
[3]All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Could this ever apply to Moses or any man? The same description for God describes Jesus...

but presently both Jesus and Moses must render account to the one who gave them the privilege to serve in that capacity. 1Corinthians 15:27,28 So presently Jesus is NO MORE serving as God but as an awaiting King to reign over the earth! That's why Isaiah used many titles to describe Jesus' various offices of duty. Isaiah 9:6

When exactly did Jesus stop being God? When did he retire from His ONENESS with God?

John 17:22
[22]And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

John 1:1
[1]In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.


Can you show me when Jesus announced His retirement from divinity from the Bible?

OneJ:
.

U "never said that Jesus is Yahweh".
Good. That settled it.

U can't be on same level (or share equal status) with a superior who elevated U to a higher rank U never had before.

Comprehend?

Your claims amounts to saying that Joseph received intoto the same measure of authority, reverence ,homage etc that king pharaoh had,just because king pharaoh elevated Joseph to a very superior position.

"God exalted him to the highest place" that every knee should bow to Jesus to the glory of God the father" Phil 2:9-11.

Even if king pharaoh declared: " I hereby put you in charge of the whole land of Egypt. " ( Gen 41: 41-43)., Joseph still know him level in the same manner that Jesus knows that you "Worship Yahweh your God & SERVE HIM ONLY" matt 4:10.
No be by force to accept this truth.
Shalom

Look at the way you are trying to explain away all the verses I posted to prove the Trinity. I thought you said Yahweh doesn't share his glory or anything. I just showed you the many things Yahweh shares with Jesus. Jesus even says ''I and my Father are one''. (John 10:30).

John 17:21
that all of them may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I am in You. May they also be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.

John 17:5
And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

John 16:15
All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

With all this verses and more, you still claim Jesus is not God which is the office of the Trinity consisting of Yahweh, Jesus the son and the Holy Spirit. You and your JW claim he was an angel who got elevated. Where is that written in the entire Bible?

alBHAGDADI:
Exactly why I asked earlier that "why do you JW say man seizes to exist when he dies?". Here you are admiting that the soul never dies. So where does it go after the body dies? We know Jesus went to hell, which you guys don't believe in. So, where did his immortal soul go after death?

Stop been mischievous , he never admit soul never dies, he was using your postulation to derive a point.

Am really interested, if Jesus is an immortal soul , how could he die for sins ?

Is it Jesus that die or ordinary Body ?

damosky12:



Though I don't find this relevant to my reply..

Try and cut down on heresy a bit.... You probably never heard that CONTEXT is the king of Bible interpretation.

If you understood the context in which "god" was used in Exodus 7:1, you wouldn't try to make a mountain out of such an hill. No sane and honest Bible interpreter will mistakingly think that portion means Moses is equal with God. Why? The context is lucid! God said to Moses: "I HAVE MADE YOU A GOD BEFORE PHARAOH"...

The usage of "god" shouldn't confuse any sane human being here. HOWEVER, see this:

John 1:1
[1]In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

He existed with God at the beginning. No wonder Jesus could say:

John 8:58
[58]Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

John 17:21-22
[21]That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
[22]And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:


Jesus is God in human flesh. Jesus is God becoming a man.

To humans : God said You are Gods, Do you agree humans are God ?

damosky12:



Laughable... This is English language... Its like saying "I was with you in the beginning of the class...". Does that by any means infer that I am no longer with you?

You expected it to have said, " in the beginning IS the Word, and the Word IS with God and the Word IS God"


The translation chose past tense articles because it addressed the beginning of time.






In your own Bible, people served as God Are you doing a comedy here? Moses served as God?

Stop fusing things up chairman. God said HE made Moses a god to pharaoh ... By this, God CLEARLY means he (Moses) will represent HIM before pharaoh. Moses did not "serve" as God. He served God.

Jesus didn't serve as God. HE IS GOD.
See what John says of the Word, Jesus:
John 1:3
[3]All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Could this ever apply to Moses or any man? The same description for God describes Jesus...




When exactly did Jesus stop being God? When did he retire from His ONENESS with God?

John 17:22
[22]And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

John 1:1
[1]In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.


Can you show me when Jesus announced His retirement from divinity from the Bible?

They are beginning to crumble one by one. The senselessness in their believe is becoming exposed.

alBHAGDADI:
Look at the way you are trying to explain away all the verses I posted to prove the Trinity. I thought you said Yahweh doesn't share his glory or anything. I just showed you the many things Yahweh shares with Jesus. Jesus even says ''I and my Father are one''. (John 10:30).

John 17:21
that all of them may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I am in You. May they also be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.

John 17:5
And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

John 16:15
All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

With all this verses and more, you still claim Jesus is not God which is the office of the Trinity consisting of Yahweh, Jesus the son and the Holy Spirit. You and your JW claim he was an angel who got elevated. Where is that written in the entire Bible?

Wasn't Jesus Created ??

..... Can you tell why he is called begotten son ? OnJ asked that earlier and you are dribbling.

Begotten son means what ?

CAPTIVATOR:



To humans : God said You are Gods, Do you agree humans are God ?

How many of the humans does He share His glory with?

CAPTIVATOR:


Wasn't Jesus Created ??

..... Can you tell why he is called begotten son ? OnJ asked that earlier and you are dribbling.

Begotten son means what ?

You clearly think the word BEGOTTEN as used in John 3:16 is talking about literal birth? Maybe that's why you JW believe he was created. Rather, that word is a Greek word monogenes which is actually talking about the unique relationship a child has with his father, not literal or physical birth or begetting itself.

Consider when God asked Abraham to sacrifice his son Isaac as an offering. God says to Abraham, “Take your son, your only [monogenes] son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I shall tell you” (Gen. 22:2). Of course, before Abraham can carry out this command, God stops Abraham and says, “Do not lay your hand on the boy or do anything to him, for now I know that you fear God, seeing you have not withheld your son, your only [monogenes] son, from me” (Gen. 22:12).

The author of Hebrews picks up on this expression and writes,

Hebrews 11:17-19
17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,

We know that Isaac wasn’t literally Abraham’s only begotten son. Isaac was the second son. Ishmael was Abraham’s first-born son. If you understand monogenes as a literal begetting, then God clearly got His facts wrong. However, if you understand monogenes as a unique, one-of-a-kind relationship, then God can accurately describe Isaac his “only” or “only begotten” son. Isaac was the only son of the covenant.

Likewise, Jesus is God’s unique, one-of-a-kind Son. You can call him the “only begotten” Son if you like, but remember, this word isn’t about procreation. It’s about a unique relationship between the Father and Son.

CAPTIVATOR:


Stop been mischievous , he never admit soul never dies, he was using your postulation to derive a point.

Am really interested, if Jesus is an immortal soul , how could he die for sins ?

Is it Jesus that die or ordinary Body ?

Have you been following the discussion or you jumped on the tail end of it? Scroll up to see where I replied him on his immortal soul question.

alBHAGDADI:

You clearly think the word BEGOTTEN as used in John 3:16 is talking about literal birth? Maybe that's why you JW believe he was created. Rather, that word is a Greek word monogenes which is actually talking about the unique relationship a child has with his father, not literal or physical birth or begetting itself.

Consider when God asked Abraham to sacrifice his son Isaac as an offering. God says to Abraham, “Take your son, your only [monogenes] son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I shall tell you” (Gen. 22:2). Of course, before Abraham can carry out this command, God stops Abraham and says, “Do not lay your hand on the boy or do anything to him, for now I know that you fear God, seeing you have not withheld your son, your only [monogenes] son, from me” (Gen. 22:12).

The author of Hebrews picks up on this expression and writes,

Hebrews 11:17-19
17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,

We know that Isaac wasn’t literally Abraham’s only begotten son. Isaac was the second son. Ishmael was Abraham’s first-born son. If you understand monogenes as a literal begetting, then God clearly got His facts wrong. However, if you understand monogenes as a unique, one-of-a-kind relationship, then God can accurately describe Isaac his “only” or “only begotten” son. Isaac was the only son of the covenant.

Likewise, Jesus is God’s unique, one-of-a-kind Son. You can call him the “only begotten” Son if you like, but remember, this word isn’t about procreation. It’s about a unique relationship between the Father and Son.

Good but thats not all , that doesn't make Isaac Equal to Abraham , he was a Son born like every other sons of Abraham

Likewise Jesus is a Son like every other Sons of Hof God in heaven. , why are they all " Sons " ? Born by a wife or Created

CAPTIVATOR:


Good but thats not all , that doesn't make Isaac Equal to Abraham , he was a Son born like every other sons of Abraham

Likewise Jesus is a Son like every other Sons of Hof God in heaven. , why are they all " Sons " ? Born by a wife or Created

You are a confused being. I thought after I explained the meaning of the word Begotten, you would have accepted without doubt. I'm surprised that you accepted but turned around to show you didn't accept it.

You said Isaac is no different from the other sons Abraham had, Likewise Jesus not different from the other sons you allege God has. If you had carefully read how I explained the meaning of the word Begotten, you would have seen that it connotes to any child that has a unique relationship with his father. That makes Jesus and Isaac far above every other child their father has. The word has nothing to do with literally giving birth. Go back and read my post again to understand.

alBHAGDADI:
How many of the humans does He share His glory with?

You admit humans are Gods as well, so what'd special if Jesus is called God !? Does it mean humans are equal to God because they are called Hod ?

Almighty God does not share his glory with anyone.

alBHAGDADI:
How many of the humans does He share His glory with?

You admit humans are Gods as well, so what'd special if Jesus is called God !? Does it mean humans are equal to God because they are called God ?

Almighty God does not share his glory with anyone.

alBHAGDADI:
How many of the humans does He share His glory with?

You admit humans are Gods as well, so what'd special if Jesus is called God !? Does it mean humans are equal to God because they are called God.

Almighty God does not share his glory with anyone.

CAPTIVATOR:



To humans : God said You are Gods, Do you agree humans are God ?

I have said before... CONTEXT is very important in Bible interpretation...


Psalms 82:6
[6]I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

Now, who are those David calls "gods" here? Are they, not the same people referred to as "children of the MOST high". The reason why they are gods is because they are CHILDREN of the MOST HIGH, God Himself.


For some understanding, see the verse 1,
Psalms 82:1
[1]God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.

GOD is distinct from gods. The context is clear!

Children of God can be called gods BUT not God Himself. God, the most high is always distinct throughout scriptures.

It is this God that became flesh, Jesus Christ in John 1:14.

John 1:1,14
[1]In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
[14]And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us..

alBHAGDADI:
How many of the humans does He share His glory with?

You admit humans are Gods as well, so what'd special if Jesus is called God !? Does it mean humans are equal to God because they are called God.

Almighty God does not share his glory with anyone.

damosky12:



I have said before... CONTEXT is very important in Bible interpretation...


Psalms 82:6
[6]I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

Now, who are those David calls "gods" here? Are they, not the same people referred to as "children of the MOST high". The reason why they are gods is because they are CHILDREN of the MOST HIGH, God Himself.


For some understanding, see the verse 1,
Psalms 82:1
[1]God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.

GOD is distinct from gods. The context is clear!

Children of God can be called gods BUT not God Himself. God, the most high is always distinct throughout scriptures.

It is this God that became flesh, Jesus Christ in John 1:14.

John 1:1,14
[1]In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
[14]And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us..

With. This the next time you call Jesus God also remember he is called so because he as well is also Son of the Most High NOT God ( Most High ) Himself



Its called shooting yourself in the foot .

Learn!

alBHAGDADI:


You are a confused being. I thought after I explained the meaning of the word Begotten, you would have accepted without doubt. I'm surprised that you accepted but turned around to show you didn't accept it.

You said Isaac is no different from the other sons Abraham had, Likewise Jesus not different from the other sons you allege God has. If you had carefully read how I explained the meaning of the word Begotten, you would have seen that it connotes to any child that has a unique relationship with his father. That makes Jesus and Isaac far above every other child their father has. The word has nothing to do with literally giving birth. Go back and read my post again to understand.

You still don't get to be begotten is to be produced .

Isaac was begotten and he become Abrahams Child , How did he became a Child or produced

Jesus was begotten , produced by his Father , How was Jesus Produced to become a Child ?

The answer is what we need here

CAPTIVATOR:


With. This the next time you call Jesus God also remember he is called so because he as well is also Son of the Most High NOT God ( Most High ) Himself



Its called shooting yourself in the foot .

Learn!

What is this one saying.... Back to the main issue.
John 1:1
[1]In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Just also as you equally admitted to Jesus being 'at one point', God.

WHEN DID HE STOP BEING GOD



Besides, tell me you are referring to the same Jesus that said:
John 8:58
[58]Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

John 17:22
[22]...that they may be one, even as we are one: