CAPTIVATOR:


You still don't get to be begotten is to be produced .

Isaac was begotten and he become Abrahams Child , How did he became a Child or produced

Jesus was begotten , produced by his Father , How was Jesus Produced to become a Child ?

The answer is what we need here

Don't you get it? The fact that the word begotten was used doesn't mean it was referring to giving birth. Yes, Isaac was giving birth to by Abraham, but the word begotten was used to show his unique relationship with Abraham which Ishmael lacked. He became a begotten son because of the relationship he had with Abraham.

Jesus was not begotten by God in the sense of giving birth to, but is the begotten son of God because of the relationship he has with God.

Understand the meaning of the word begotten, then we can talk.

oneolajire:



Don't mind them. They have been taught to denigrate Jesus. They only give him little cosmetic adoration. It isn't their fault, it is their progenitor's.

Another proof of the falsehood and Antichrist ways of JW is how they attack Jesus Christ's words by telling lies. They claim there is no hell fire and that sinners seize to exist after judgement, meaning they will be annihalted. However, examine the words of Jesus, one can see how much of a liar JW are.

Jesus makes a dark appraisal of the fate of His betrayer: “It would have been good for that man if he had not been born” (Matt. 26:24).

How does Jesus’ comment square with annihilationism?
If Judas had not been born, then he would not exist. If he were annihilated in judgment, then he would not exist. The last condition would be the same as the first. How could the first be “good,” then, by comparison?

Can you now see how much of a liar they are?

@barristter07 @OneJ @Tatime come and refute this.

alBHAGDADI:


Don't you get it? The fact that the word begotten was used doesn't mean it was referring to giving birth. Yes, Isaac was giving birth to by Abraham, but the word begotten was used to show his unique relationship with Abraham which Ishmael lacked. He became a begotten son because of the relationship he had with Abraham.

Jesus was not begotten by God in the sense of giving birth to, but is the begotten son of God because of the relationship he has with God.

Understand the meaning of the word begotten, then we can talk.

Half truth = LIE.

Begotten is the past participle of beget.
Beget
1). To father
2) To cause or create.

"Yahweh produced me at the beginning of his works"...
The Lord Yahweh brought me forth as the first of his works before his deeds of old... when there were no oceans, I was given birth...... when he marked out the foundations of the earth. Then I was the craftsman at his side".
Prov 8:22-30.

Abraham is the father of Isaac in the same manner that Jesus called Yahweh his Father.

alBHAGDADI, pls keep lying.

alBHAGDADI:


You are a confused being. I thought after I explained the meaning of the word Begotten, you would have accepted without doubt. I'm surprised that you accepted but turned around to show you didn't accept it.

You said Isaac is no different from the other sons Abraham had, Likewise Jesus not different from the other sons you allege God has. If you had carefully read how I explained the meaning of the word Begotten, you would have seen that it connotes to any child that has a unique relationship with his father. That makes Jesus and Isaac far above every other child their father has. The word has nothing to do with literally giving birth. Go back and read my post again to understand.

Isaac is the only begotten son of Abraham, likewise Jesus is God's only begotten son. God Almighty is forever above Jesus Christ ,likewise Abraham above Isaac.

The NAS New Testament Greek Lexicon.
"mono genes"
definition.

1) Single of its kind only
( a) used only of sons or daughters (viewed in relation to their parents).
( b) used of Jesus Christ,denotes the only begotten son of God.

Source: https://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/Greek/nas/monogenes.html

Only begotten son is strictly for father or parents/ child relationship.

In a nutshell , Jesus is the son of Jehovah/ Yahweh, the Most High God.
It is from this Father and son relationship he attained the special status of becoming God's only begotten son.


"Begotten" (verb)
1) Past participle of beget.

"Beget"
(1) To father
(2) To cause or create.

Source:
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/begotten

If U wanna deceive yourself & lie to yourself,pls do so at your own risk.

OneJ:



Isaac is the only begotten son of Abraham, likewise Jesus is God's only begotten son. God Almighty is forever above Jesus Christ ,likewise Abraham above Isaac.

The NAS New Testament Greek Lexicon.
"mono genes"
definition.

1) Single of its kind only
( a) used only of sons or daughters (viewed in relation to their parents).
( b) used of Jesus Christ,denotes the only begotten son of God.

Source: https://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/Greek/nas/monogenes.html

Only begotten son is strictly for father or parents/ child relationship.

In a nutshell , Jesus is the son of Jehovah/ Yahweh, the Most High God.
It is from this Father and son relationship he attained the special status of becoming God's only begotten son.


"Begotten" (verb)

1) Past participle of beget.

"Beget"
(1) To father
(2) To cause or create.

Source:
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/begotten

If U wanna deceive yourself & lie to yourself,pls do so at your own risk.

You are intentionally being dubious. Didn't I show that guy were the phrase "only begotten son" was also used when referring to Abraham and Isaac? Is Isaac the only son Abraham had? No, he wasn't even the first son. But that unique relationship which he had with Abraham is why he is referred to as ONLY BEGOTTEN SON. But here you are still holding on to the literal meaning of begotten, whereas facts prove that the term as used alongside ONLY isn't referring to giving birth. What you are saying now is that God got his fact wrong when he called Isaac Abraham's only begotten son, even though he knew Abraham had another son named Ishmael.

Maybe you need to go back and read my first reply to the guy to see that the use of the phrase "only begotten" is not used to mean create, produce or give birth. It is a special status that makes you different from all others.

OneJ:



Half truth = LIE.

Begotten is the past participle of beget.
Beget
1). To father
2) To cause or create.

"Yahweh produced me at the beginning of his works"...
The Lord Yahweh brought me forth as the first of his works before his deeds of old... when there were no oceans, I was given birth...... when he marked out the foundations of the earth. Then I was the craftsman at his side".
Prov 8:22-30.

Abraham is the father of Isaac in the same manner that Jesus called Yahweh his Father.

alBHAGDADI, pls keep lying.

If the word begotten means to give birth as you claim is the only sense it was used in the Bible, then shouldn't it mean that Isaac is the only son Abraham has? But hey, Isaac wasn't the only son Abraham had. He wasn't even the first. He was the second.

The reason God used the phrase "ONLY BEGOTTEN SON" is because of the special status Isaac had with Abraham. He was the promised child, the one in whom Abraham's seed are called.

But here you are going literal with the meaning and confusing yourself and also saying God got his facts wrong, meaning He said Isaac is Abraham's only son even when he knew Ishmael existed.

damosky12:



Laughable... This is English language... Its like saying "I was with you in the beginning of the class...". Does that by any means infer that I am no longer with you?

You expected it to have said, " in the beginning IS the Word, and the Word IS with God and the Word IS God"


The translation chose past tense articles because it addressed the beginning of time.






In your own Bible, people served as God Are you doing a comedy here? Moses served as God?

Stop fusing things up chairman. God said HE made Moses a god to pharaoh ... By this, God CLEARLY means he (Moses) will represent HIM before pharaoh. Moses did not "serve" as God. He served God.

Jesus didn't serve as God. HE IS GOD.
See what John says of the Word, Jesus:
John 1:3
[3]All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Could this ever apply to Moses or any man? The same description for God describes Jesus...




When exactly did Jesus stop being God? When did he retire from His ONENESS with God?

John 17:22
[22]And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

John 1:1
[1]In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.


Can you show me when Jesus announced His retirement from divinity from the Bible?

By the time Apostle John was writing this Gospel account (year 98ce),he has written the Bible book of Revelations which was completed in the year 96 ce meaning he has gotten more enlightenment about the personality of Jesus from what was revealed to him in Revelations. According to the account Jesus was the WORD meaning all the inspired expressions ever written passed through Jesus to any of the inspired writers, He WAS with God meaning Jesus has existed before any other creature, He was God because He served as God at some point in time. Now this is where many finds it difficult to comprehend because this means After the event in the garden of Eden the Almighty God allowed humans to operate independently for centuries while Jesus WAS the one addressing all issues as a representative of His father and God,the same way Moses served as God when Pharaoh said "i don't know Jehovah and i won't obey him" Pharaoh was forced to acknowledge HIM through HIS representative (Moses). Until after Christianity began and humans (baptized Christians) were BORN by GOD'S holy spirit,then God Almighty began dealing DIRECTLY with those BORN AGAIN. So all this while Jesus has been the one dealing with all those people as God after the event in Eden. That's why He said unless a man is BORN AGAIN he can't SEE God(the Almighty) because those are the one's going to heaven to live with God as sons Just as Adam lived with HIM and beheld HIS glory in the garden of Eden.

#damosky ; There are many offices Jesus served after the event in Eden but if you're not reading with meditation you can't comprehend it. When He was with His disciples He told them many things that readers can get insight from it. For example He told a disciple "i am going to my Father, your Father and my God,your God" John 20:17 All these were to make everyone realise that Jesus truly served as a mightly spirit being but He is still under the headship of another superior spirit "Jehovah"! John 8:28

TATIME:
By the time Apostle John was writing this Gospel account (year 98ce),he has written the Bible book of Revelations which was completed in the year 96 ce meaning he has gotten more enlightenment about the personality of Jesus from what was revealed to him in Revelations.

Stop being petty and highly fallacious on issues of uttermost importance. Why make such a monumental assumption of when or when not the Apostle John was enlightened?

I thought the scriptures are their primary means of justification not our assumption of when or when not the writers were enlightened...

2 Timothy 3:16
[16]All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Isn't that an attraction to heresy?

That asides anyway...

According to the account Jesus was the WORD meaning all the inspired expressions ever written passed through Jesus to any of the inspired writers

Did you try reading what you typed?

First error in there is your assumption that the Word refers to "all inspired expressions ever written...". How confused! The same Word that John says exists IN THE BEGINNING, the same Word that John says:

John 1:3
[3]All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

All things were made by " ALL INSPIRED EXPRESSIONS..."
Does that make sense to you?

The Greek word translated WORD in John 1 is logos. It means, among other things, reasoning, motive, Divine Expression, etc. (Strong Concordance). Ancient Greek Philosophers like Plato, Aristotle, etc. used the same word in ways similar.

So, when John uses logos, He couldn't have meant "inspired expressions...". That's absurd. " The Word was God" (John 1:1). Are "inspired expressions..." God?

He WAS with God meaning Jesus has existed before any other creature, He was God because He served as God at some point in time.

LOL. Actually, this is funny for real. OK, let's see this,
John 1:3
[3]All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Can you explain this? All things were made by God as seen in Genesis. Right?
John links all that process to Jesus. How? If Jesus was just a creation before other creations, how come John says "ALL THINGS WERE MADE BY HIM" ?

Mind you " all things" as used there is from the Greek word which means; Whosoever, whatsoever, Whatsoever, Whole, Everyone, All.

If this Jesus who John says created all things "served as God at some point in time", when exactly did He retire from being God? Show me from CLEAR scriptures, please...

Now this is where many finds it difficult to comprehend because this means After the event in the garden of Eden the Almighty God allowed humans to operate independently for centuries while Jesus WAS the one addressing all issues as a representative of His father and God,

Can you show us from CLEAR scriptures how that Jesus was the one " addressing all issues..."

I thought all that you'll ever see there is "the Lord God" or "God" who is God Himself (who of course came as a man in Jesus Christ). Do you make sense to yourself?

Try and read the Bible with a little more of clarity. Don't conjure up new things where you didn't see them... It is clear enough.

the same way Moses served as God when Pharaoh said "i don't know Jehovah and i won't obey him" Pharaoh was forced to acknowledge HIM through HIS representative (Moses).

Stop being confusing to yourself... Moses NEVER "SERVED AS GOD"... Does that make any sense to you?

See the speech God gave him to use

Exodus 7:16
[16]And thou shalt say unto him, The LORD God of the Hebrews hath sent me unto thee, saying, Let my people go, that they may serve me in the wilderness: and, behold, hitherto thou wouldest not hear.

Exodus 8:1
[1]And the LORD spake unto Moses, Go unto Pharaoh, and say unto him, Thus saith the LORD, Let my people go, that they may serve me.

Exodus 8:20
[20]And the LORD said unto Moses, Rise up early in the morning, and stand before Pharaoh; lo, he cometh forth to the water; and say unto him, Thus saith the LORD ..


How will someone who is "serving as God" say stuffs like 'The Lord God has sent me to you', 'Thus sayeth the Lord'

How can you be serving as the President and say, "the president sent me to you"? Think.

When God said to Moses, " I have made you a god to Pharaoh ", in context, He only spoke of putting Pharaoh under him.... Not that he is now " serving as God"....

Why jumble things up? ?

Until after Christianity began and humans (baptized Christians) were BORN by GOD'S holy spirit,then God Almighty began dealing DIRECTLY with those BORN AGAIN. So all this while Jesus has been the one dealing with all those people as God after the event in Eden. That's why He said unless a man is BORN AGAIN he can't SEE God(the Almighty) because those are the one's going to heaven to live with God as sons Just as Adam lived with HIM and beheld HIS glory in the garden of Eden.

All I need is a portion of scripture that says all the old testament prophets and saints dealt with Jesus and NOT God.....


Until then, think about the plausibility of what you typed here...


See, God has always been coexistent with the Word. He is one with Him.

John 1:1
[1]In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Jesus was begotten when God put on or became flesh...

John 1:14
[14]And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.



No wonder Jesus could make statements like,

John 17:21-22
[21]That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
[22]And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:



Why should this be too hard to comprehend?

Maximus69:
The word "MISTAKE" is often in connection with events involving imperfect men err but it becomes controversial if it's applied in the case of a perfect being like Jesus. However with your clear explanation it's evident that Adam and the angels were also perfect creatures yet they erred, meaning perfect creatures can also err. So i've learnt a lesson from your comment TATIME that the ONLY person above error is the Creator that created perfect creatures and not the creatures made. All the same you have brought this to those who won't buy it no matter the evidence shown from the scriptures. It would have been appropriate if you're to be standing on a high pulpit spewing huge grammars as a motivational speaker with lofty titles as Pastor,Prophet,Archbishop,Apostle or Pope. That would have given you the pedigree to utter such a wonderful discovery. Thanks for the enlightenment, i now understood why many of us are still falling victims to sin as we find it difficult to understand that Jesus also fought hard to overcome the power of the flesh. Thank you TATIME

There are many sacred secrets that the GB of Jehovah's Witnesses don't disclose to the flock until the SPIRIT directing them ask them to do so. This i strongly believe because that's the same way Jesus was operating when He was with His followers in the flesh. So when any of those following them discovers something new,we keep it PERSONAL until it is time for the SPIRIT to publicise it,i believe that's what submission means. As for those agitating about FAILED PROPHECIES,they're crying for insight when they're not ready to obey the King so NO SIGN will be given them unless the good works of the organization, (Matthew 12:39) If they're not moved with that certainly even if the GB says something that later happens they won't obey the King! Luke 16:31

alBHAGDADI:
[s] Exactly why I asked earlier that "why do you JW say man seizes to exist when he dies?". Here you are admiting that the soul never dies. So where does it go after the body dies? We know Jesus went to hell, which you guys don't believe in. So, where did his immortal soul go after death? [/s]

Stop spewing nonsense, how can an immortal soul Jesus die for sin?

Jozzy4:
Stop spewing nonsense, how can an immortal soul Jesus die for sin?

Go and check your mentions to see where I replied you? Perhaps you are acting as if you didn't see it.

@damosky12

JW have been rambling on thus thread on how God doesn't share His glory; they've made that as a point to say Jesus is not God. They quote Isaiah as seen below.


Isaiah 42:8 King James Version (KJV)
I am the LORD : that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

Clearly, God said He will not GIVE His glory to another. But below is Jesus talking.

“The Father…has GIVEN all judgment to the Son so that
all will honor the Son even as they honor the Father” (Jn. 5:22-23).

Peter made the same point:

“Grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. TO HIM BE THE GLORY, both now and to the day of eternity . Amen” (2 Pet. 3:18).

“I have sworn by Myself…that to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance” (Is. 45:23).

“That at the name of Jesus every knee will bow…every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord…” (Phil. 2:10)

“I, even I, am the Lord; and there is no savior besides Me” (Is. 43:11).

“..by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ ” (2 Pet. 1:1).

“Is there any God besides Me, or is there any other Rock ? I know of none” (Is. 44:.

“All drank the same spiritual drink [in the wilderness], for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them, and the rock was Christ ” (1 Cor. 10:4).

“God said to Moses…say to the sons of Israel, ‘ I AM has sent me to you ’” (Ex. 3:14).

“Jesus said to them, ‘Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM ’” (Jn. 8:58).

“Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts: ‘ I am the first and I am the last, and there is no God besides Me’” (Is. 44:6).

“I am the first and the last, and the living One, and I was dead, and behold I am alive forevermore” (Rev. 1:17-18).

Can OneJ Tatime barristter07 jozzy4 refute this?

TATIME:
#damosky ; There are many offices Jesus served after the event in Eden but if you're not reading with meditation you can't comprehend it. When He was with His disciples He told them many things that readers can get insight from it. For example He told a disciple "i am going to my Father, your Father and my God,your God" John 20:17 All these were to make everyone realise that Jesus truly served as a mightly spirit being but He is still under the headship of another superior spirit "Jehovah"! John 8:28

What mighty spirit being? Are you afraid to state the JW stance that he was an angel? Is that why you are using the word spirit being? You JW even say he was angel Michael.

alBHAGDADI:
@damosky12

JW have been rambling on thus thread on how God doesn't share His glory; they've made that as a point to say Jesus is not God. They quote Isaiah as seen below.


Isaiah 42:8 King James Version (KJV)
I am the LORD : that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

Clearly, God said He will not GIVE His glory to another. But below is Jesus talking.

“The Father…has GIVEN all judgment to the Son so that
all will honor the Son even as they honor the Father” (Jn. 5:22-23).

Peter made the same point:

“Grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. TO HIM BE THE GLORY, both now and to the day of eternity . Amen” (2 Pet. 3:18).

“I have sworn by Myself…that to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance” (Is. 45:23).

“That at the name of Jesus every knee will bow…every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord…” (Phil. 2:10)

“I, even I, am the Lord; and there is no savior besides Me” (Is. 43:11).

“..by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ ” (2 Pet. 1:1).

“Is there any God besides Me, or is there any other Rock ? I know of none” (Is. 44:.

“All drank the same spiritual drink [in the wilderness], for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them, and the rock was Christ ” (1 Cor. 10:4).

“God said to Moses…say to the sons of Israel, ‘ I AM has sent me to you ’” (Ex. 3:14).

“Jesus said to them, ‘Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM ’” (Jn. 8:58).

“Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts: ‘ I am the first and I am the last, and there is no God besides Me’” (Is. 44:6).

“I am the first and the last, and the living One, and I was dead, and behold I am alive forevermore” (Rev. 1:17-18).

Can OneJ Tatime barristter07 jozzy4 refute this?

You got the whole truth wholesale...

I think this is too clear. JW or no JW, it takes either stupidity or sheer dishonesty to deny this truth...

alBHAGDADI:


Don't you get it? The fact that the word begotten was used doesn't mean it was referring to giving birth. Yes, Isaac was giving birth to by Abraham, but the word begotten was used to show his unique relationship with Abraham which Ishmael lacked. He became a begotten son because of the relationship he had with Abraham.

Jesus was not begotten by God in the sense of giving birth to, but is the begotten son of God because of the relationship he has with God.

Understand the meaning of the word begotten, then we can talk.

Mehn, your own is worse o

Begotten is the past tense of beget , it doesn't mean Jesus and Isaac were not produced.

Isaac was the only son produced by union of Abraham and Sarah . making him the only begotten of that union

Jesus is the only begotten of the Father , because he was the only produced directly by the Father . he is still a son as well

But how was Jesus. Produced by the Father ? Through sexual Union like Abraham or how . that's the main question you haven't answered

damosky12:



What is this one saying.... Back to the main issue.
John 1:1
[1]In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Just also as you equally admitted to Jesus being 'at one point', God.

WHEN DID HE STOP BEING GOD

Sense is needed .

When did humans stop been God ?

You admit humans are Gods but they are children of the Most High NOT the Most high himself .

So also I told you Jesus is also Son of the Most High too . NOT the most high is that too hard to grab ?

So Its nothing special if Jesus is called God.

So far he isn't the Most high , Jesus is also a child of the Most High .

Besides, tell me you are referring to the same Jesus that said:
John 8:58
[58]Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

John 17:22
[22]...that they may be one, even as we are one:

How exactly does this Prove Jesus is the Most High ?

" I AM " claim is a manipulation, The person who claim I AM that I AM in the same king James Bible , make it clear he is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob . Mr Damosky, is Jesus the God od Abraham , Isaac and Jacob ? Kindly expose your cheer ignorance to the public

alBHAGDADI:
@damosky12

JW have been rambling on thus thread on how God doesn't share His glory; they've made that as a point to say Jesus is not God. They quote Isaiah as seen below.


Isaiah 42:8 King James Version (KJV)
I am the LORD : that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

Clearly, God said He will not GIVE His glory to another. But below is Jesus talking.

“The Father…has GIVEN all judgment to the Son so that
all will honor the Son even as they honor the Father” (Jn. 5:22-23).

Peter made the same point:

“Grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. TO HIM BE THE GLORY, both now and to the day of eternity . Amen” (2 Pet. 3:18).

“I have sworn by Myself…that to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance” (Is. 45:23).

“That at the name of Jesus every knee will bow…every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord…” (Phil. 2:10)

“I, even I, am the Lord; and there is no savior besides Me” (Is. 43:11).

“..by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ ” (2 Pet. 1:1).

“Is there any God besides Me, or is there any other Rock ? I know of none” (Is. 44:.

“All drank the same spiritual drink [in the wilderness], for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them, and the rock was Christ ” (1 Cor. 10:4).

“God said to Moses…say to the sons of Israel, ‘ I AM has sent me to you ’” (Ex. 3:14).

“Jesus said to them, ‘Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM ’” (Jn. 8:58).

“Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts: ‘ I am the first and I am the last, and there is no God besides Me’” (Is. 44:6).

“I am the first and the last, and the living One, and I was dead, and behold I am alive forevermore” (Rev. 1:17-18).

Can OneJ Tatime barristter07 jozzy4 refute this?

None of the quote above says God shared is glory with anyone.

Still on it, How was Jesus produced ( beget) ?

damosky12:



Laughable... This is English language... Its like saying "I was with you in the beginning of the class...". Does that by any means infer that I am no longer with you?

You expected it to have said, " in the beginning IS the Word, and the Word IS with God and the Word IS God"


The translation chose past tense articles because it addressed the beginning of time.






In your own Bible, people served as God Are you doing a comedy here? Moses served as God?

Stop fusing things up chairman. God said HE made Moses a god to pharaoh ... By this, God CLEARLY means he (Moses) will represent HIM before pharaoh. Moses did not "serve" as God. He served God.

Jesus didn't serve as God. HE IS GOD.
See what John says of the Word, Jesus:
John 1:3
[3]All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Could this ever apply to Moses or any man? The same description for God describes Jesus...




When exactly did Jesus stop being God? When did he retire from His ONENESS with God?

John 17:22
[22]And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

John 1:1
[1]In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.


Can you show me when Jesus announced His retirement from divinity from the Bible?

Like every other creation, Jesus have a God .. Agree?

alBHAGDADI:
Have you been following the discussion or you jumped on the tail end of it? Scroll up to see where I replied him on his immortal soul question.

You can't dogde this. Your fake doctrine is an abuse on Jesus Christ himself

Okay since Jesus is an immortal soul , Do you now agree Jesus didn't die for anyone it was just an ordinary body that die ?

damosky12:



I have said before... CONTEXT is very important in Bible interpretation...


Psalms 82:6
[6]I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.



Now, who are those David calls "gods" here? Are they, not the same people referred to as "children of the MOST high". The reason why they are gods is because they are CHILDREN of the MOST HIGH, God Himself.



For some understanding, see the verse 1,
Psalms 82:1
[1]God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.

GOD is distinct from gods. The context is clear!

Children of God can be called gods BUT not God Himself. God, the most high is always distinct throughout scriptures.

It is this God that became flesh, Jesus Christ in John 1:14.

John 1:1,14
[1]In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
[14]And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us..

Abeg, kindly apply these to Jesus too ,
Or is he not also child of the Most High ?

CAPTIVATOR:


Sense is needed .

When did humans stop been God ?

You admit humans are Gods but they are children of the Most High NOT the Most high himself .

So also I told you Jesus is also Son of the Most High too . NOT the most high is that too hard to grab

Laughable! Jesus is not just called son of the Most High. He is extremely incomparable to the "children of the Most High" described in Psalm 82:6. He is CLEARLY called the Most High Himself... Remove your Kantian spectacle and see...

John 1:1-3
[1]In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

A human "child of the Most High" coexisted with God at the BEGINNING?

[2]The same was in the beginning with God.
[3]All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

A human "child of the Most High" created all things that are?
Moses calls He who created all things God. John says it is the Word.... It shouldn't be confusing that when John says the Word was God, he meant it.
The context is clear. It only takes dishonesty to twist things out of context.

So Its nothing special if Jesus is called God.

So far he isn't the Most high , Jesus is also a child of the Most High .

As I showed above, The Word coexisted with God in the beginning (John 1:1-2), the Word created all things (verse 3), the Word contains is responsible for life and light (verse 4-5)... It becomes clear that when John said THE WORD WAS GOD, he meant Jesus really is the Most High...

Actually, does it not take a level of dishonesty to compare this Word to the context of Psalm 82:6

The contexts speak for themselves... THE WORD (that became Jesus) is GOD himself.

How exactly does this Prove Jesus is the Most High ?

" I AM " claim is a manipulation, The person who claim I AM that I AM in the same king James Bible , make it clear he is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob . Mr Damosky, is Jesus the God od Abraham , Isaac and Jacob ? Kindly expose your cheer ignorance to the public

Why are you going back na?

Jesus knew what He was saying when He chose the Words "I AM". He clearly meant it. He is God, the same God if Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. He knew what he meant. Even His audience understood him...

John 8:58-59
[58]Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
[59] Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.


If these ancients understood him clearly that they were ready to lynch him, why should you doggedly stick to your ignorance?


The context is lucidly clear, read it in full...

John 8:56-58

[56]Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

[57]Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
[58]Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.


It takes either dogged ignorance or self deceit to try to twist this...


For a parting, its not cheer, it is sheer .




Take the truth wholesale and be better for it.

CAPTIVATOR:

Like every other creation, Jesus have a God .. Agree?

I addressed you in detail, above...

CAPTIVATOR:


Mehn, your own is worse o

Begotten is the past tense of beget , it doesn't mean Jesus and Isaac were not produced.

Isaac was the only son produced by union of Abraham and Sarah . making him the only begotten of that union

Jesus is the only begotten of the Father , because he was the only produced directly by the Father . he is still a son as well

But how was Jesus. Produced by the Father ? Through sexual Union like Abraham or how . that's the main question you haven't answered

Did the verse speaking about Abraham and Isaac being his only begotten son ever mention Sarah? I wonder how you concluded that God was speaking of the son produced by Abraham and Sarah. Moreover, God never canceled Ishmael from being Abraham's son, so it could have been him. But why it can't be mistaken for Ishmael is because he shares no special relationship with Abraham in the case of being the promised child.

Look at the cunning way you threw away the Biblical meaning of only begotten son.

CAPTIVATOR:

None of the quote above says God shared is glory with anyone.

Still on it, How was Jesus produced ( beget) ?

Dont be in a hurry to run away from the powerful verses because you can't explain them. And also, the quote you are replying to isn't talking about begotten. So, don't try to use that to derail or escape.

Now, If you say God doesn't share His glory, then can you explain each of the verses below? Don't run away this time.

JW have been rambling on thus thread on how God doesn't share His glory; they've made that as a point to say Jesus is not God. They quote Isaiah as seen below.

Isaiah 42:8 King James Version (KJV)
I am the LORD : that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.
Clearly, God said He will not GIVE His glory to another. But below is Jesus talking.

“The Father…has GIVEN all judgment to the Son so that
all will honor the Son even as they honor the Father” (Jn. 5:22-23).

Peter made the same point:

“Grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. TO HIM BE THE GLORY, both now and to the day of eternity . Amen” (2 Pet. 3:18).

“I have sworn by Myself…that to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance” (Is. 45:23).

“That at the name of Jesus every knee will bow…every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord…” (Phil. 2:10)

“I, even I, am the Lord; and there is no savior besides Me” (Is. 43:11).

“..by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ ” (2 Pet. 1:1).

“Is there any God besides Me, or is there any other Rock ? I know of none” (Is. 44:8

“All drank the same spiritual drink [in the wilderness], for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them, and the rock was Christ ” (1 Cor. 10:4).

“God said to Moses…say to the sons of Israel, ‘ I AM has sent me to you ’” (Ex. 3:14).

“Jesus said to them, ‘Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM ’” (Jn. 8:58).

“Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts: ‘ I am the first and I am the last, and there is no God besides Me’” (Is. 44:6).

“I am the first and the last, and the living One, and I was dead, and behold I am alive forevermore” (Rev. 1:17-18).

Please, tell us why Jesus is using and being ascribed titles which only belongs to God?

alBHAGDADI:
What mighty spirit being? Are you afraid to state the JW stance that he was an angel? Is that why you are using the word spirit being? You JW even say he was angel Michael.

Well it's written in the Bible that Michael is the archangel meaning the most powerful angel and Jesus is the next most powerful apart from the most high God. So i don't think it's wrong to conclude that this same Michael is Jesus.Isaiah 11:10 compared to Daniel 12:1. And Of course such a creature is a MIGHTY SPIRIT BEING!.

alBHAGDADI:
Dont be in a hurry to run away from the powerful verses because you can't explain them. And also, the quote you are replying to isn't talking about begotten. So, don't try to use that to derail or escape.

Now, If you say God doesn't share His glory, then can you explain each of the verses below? Don't run away this time.

JW have been rambling on thus thread on how God doesn't share His glory; they've made that as a point to say Jesus is not God. They quote Isaiah as seen below.

Isaiah 42:8 King James Version (KJV)
I am the LORD : that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.
Clearly, God said He will not GIVE His glory to another. But below is Jesus talking.

“The Father…has GIVEN all judgment to the Son so that
all will honor the Son even as they honor the Father” (Jn. 5:22-23).

Peter made the same point:

“Grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. TO HIM BE THE GLORY, both now and to the day of eternity . Amen” (2 Pet. 3:18).

“I have sworn by Myself…that to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance” (Is. 45:23).

“That at the name of Jesus every knee will bow…every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord…” (Phil. 2:10)

“I, even I, am the Lord; and there is no savior besides Me” (Is. 43:11).

“..by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ ” (2 Pet. 1:1).

“Is there any God besides Me, or is there any other Rock ? I know of none” (Is. 44:8

“All drank the same spiritual drink [in the wilderness], for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them, and the rock was Christ ” (1 Cor. 10:4).

“God said to Moses…say to the sons of Israel, ‘ I AM has sent me to you ’” (Ex. 3:14).

“Jesus said to them, ‘Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM ’” (Jn. 8:58).

“Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts: ‘ I am the first and I am the last, and there is no God besides Me’” (Is. 44:6).

“I am the first and the last, and the living One, and I was dead, and behold I am alive forevermore” (Rev. 1:17-18).

Please, tell us why Jesus is using and being ascribed titles which only belongs to God?

I repeat None of the verses Says God shared His Glory.

Point out anyone that said so !!!

About titles , Jesus and his apostles share the title " Apostle ". Does it mean they are equal? Apply sense

alBHAGDADI:
Did the verse speaking about Abraham and Isaac being his only begotten son ever mention Sarah? I wonder how you concluded that God was speaking of the son produced by Abraham and Sarah . Moreover, God never canceled Ishmael from being Abraham's son, so it could have been him. But why it can't be mistaken for Ishmael is because he shares no special relationship with Abraham in the case of being the promised child.

Look at the cunning way you threw away the Biblical meaning of only begotten son.

Begotten is to be produced by someone


Only begotten indicates. Only one of its kind . Isaac is the only begotten son. Because he is the only one produced for Abraham by his own wife Sarah .


How was Jesus produced that make him only begotten among other creations ( Sons of God ) produced like him ?

damosky12:


Laughable! Jesus is not just called son of the Most High. He is extremely incomparable to the "children of the Most High" described in Psalm 82:6. He is CLEARLY called the Most High Himself... Remove your Kantian spectacle and see...

John 1:1-3
[1]In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

A human "child of the Most High" coexisted with God at the BEGINNING?

[2]The same was in the beginning with God.
[3]All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

A human "child of the Most High" created all things that are?
Moses calls He who created all things God. John says it is the Word.... It shouldn't be confusing that when John says the Word was God, he meant it.
The context is clear. It only takes dishonesty to twist things out of context.




As I showed above, The Word coexisted with God in the beginning (John 1:1-2), the Word created all things (verse 3), the Word contains is responsible for life and light (verse 4-5)... It becomes clear that when John said THE WORD WAS GOD, he meant Jesus really is the Most High...

Actually, does it not take a level of dishonesty to compare this Word to the context of Psalm 82:6

The contexts speak for themselves... THE WORD (that became Jesus) is GOD himself.

Son of the Most High . good you admit.

Son of the Most High IS NOT the Most High .

Why are you going back na?

Jesus knew what He was saying when He chose the Words "I AM". He clearly meant it. He is God, the same God if Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. He knew what he meant. Even His audience understood him...

John 8:58-59
[58]Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
[59] Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.


If these ancients understood him clearly that they were ready to lynch him, why should you doggedly stick to your ignorance?


The context is lucidly clear, read it in full...

John 8:56-58

[56]Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

[57]Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
[58]Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.


It takes either dogged ignorance or self deceit to try to twist this...


For a parting, its not cheer, it is sheer .




Take the truth wholesale and be better for it.

Ignorance !

Is Jesus the God of Abraham , Isaac and Jacob that calls himself "I AM THAT I AM " in KJV ?

TATIME:
Well it's written in the Bible that Michael is the archangel meaning the most powerful angel and Jesus is the next most powerful apart from the most high God. So i don't think it's wrong to conclude that this same Michael is Jesus.Isaiah 11:10 compared to Daniel 12:1. And Of course such a creature is a MIGHTY SPIRIT BEING!.

You mean the same Michael who had to call on Lord Jesus before he could rebuke Satan?

Jude 1:9
But Michael the archangel, when he disputed with the devil and argued about the body of Moses, did not dare pronounce against him a railing judgment, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!"

CAPTIVATOR:


Son of the Most High . good you admit.

Son of the Most High IS NOT the Most High

Son of the most high where? Admit what ? By saying what? Did you aim your reply at my post or you were too lazy to read or comprehend my post?

Ignorance !

Is Jesus the God of Abraham , Isaac and Jacob that calls himself "I AM THAT I AM " in KJV ?

Read my post well and reply me line for line.... Stop being superficial.

Go through my post well, be educated... If you have issues with it, CLEARLY highlight the issues line for line...


Ignorance? . That's like your nick name.

CAPTIVATOR:



I repeat None of the verses Says God shared His Glory.

Point out anyone that said so !!!

About titles , Jesus and his apostles share the title " Apostle ". Does it mean they are equal? Apply sense

Are you expecting a verse to expressly say God shared his glory? I've showed you were God said He's the First and the Last. Jesus Christ also referred to himself as the First and the Last. Can you claim to be such as a human being? Yet Jesus said such. Isn't that sharing God's glory? Can you share God's glory? Yet Jesus did.


You say none of the verses say God shared his glory. Part of God's glory is being a judge. The link below has different verses which show God to be a Judge.

https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/God,-As-Judge

If he doesn't share His glory, how come He gave judgment to be done by Jesus?

“The Father…has GIVEN all judgment to the Son so that
all will honor the Son even as they honor the Father” (Jn. 5:22-23).

Look at the verses below too.

“I, even I, am the Lord; and there is no savior besides Me” (Is. 43:11).

“..by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ ” (2 Pet. 1:1).

Isn't Jesus equating himself with God?

Your colleague Tatime is saying Jesus is angel Michael. He quoted ambiguous verses to support the JW belief of Jesus being an angel. Now, let me apply the technic which you used, which is "nowhere is it written that God shared His glory". So, nowhere is it written that Jesus is Michael.

Can you now see how dumb and stupid your technic is?