TATIME:
Sorry my friend, you got it all wrong again! Because those going to heaven must have the name of Jesus and His Father's name WRITTEN on their foreheads, meaning they must have undergone training by the greatest teacher who ever lived as a man(Jesus) That's why Jesus pointedly said John the Baptist is not among them whereas John is greater than all that were born by women. Matthew 11:11 Adam was not born by women but he is the first unrepentant sinner so he is neither going to heaven nor live forever on earth! So who are those 144,000? They're supposed to come from the 12 tribes of Israel as planned originally but because Jesus was rejected in Israel and precisely in Jerusalem, Jesus said Jerusalem is condemned. Matthew 23:37 Please when you're reading the Bible book of Revelation you need someone much more devoted to spiritual things to help you out or else you'll continue to confuse yourself. The names listed at Revelations 7:5-8 never completed the 12 tribes,please go back and check the names of the Original 12 tribes in Exodus 1:2-6 you'll notice that the names mentioned in Revelations is NOT complete meaning that place is talking about spiritual Israelites NOT Israelites by birth! So you need to know the meaning of some things mentioned in the book of Revelations because it was written to be translated by those who have the same spirit as the writers! For example Daniel wrote so many prophecies but by the end he got confused asking for the INTERPRETATION, God told Daniel (who has been interpreting so many sacred secrets for his contemporaries) the meaning is not for you but those that it is concerned will be given the spirit of wisdom to understand and interpret it. Daniel 12 :8-10

I wanted to stop reading your post when you said Adam will neither be in heaven or earth, which is a silly thing to say, but then I got to the part where you said plan changed concerning the 144,000... I just gave up on you.

Barristter07:




Humans are called El Gibbor just as Jesus .

Ezekiel 32:21 , Isaiah 9:6 .

El Gibbor ( plural ) rendered " Mighty chiefs "

El Gibbor rendered " Mighty God "

Can you comprehend now ?

I asked you, how many of your mighty God's were worshiped by angels who worship God? How many of them did the elders in heaven bow before and worshiped?

You still haven't answered me.

alBHAGDADI:
Where did I say Peter won't rule with Christ? I said he is not among the 144,000 mentioned in the book of Revelations.

Peter is not among yet his name is boldly inscribed as part of the foundations of the holy city. (Revelations 21:14) My friend, come to JWs organization and learn to appreciate the TRUTH when you come across it! Please leave those slanderers behind you because they already know the truth but it's light is too bright for them to remain in it due to their pride,selfishness and ego which is not tolerated amongst the holy ones. 1John 2:19

alBHAGDADI:
I wanted to stop reading your post when you said Adam will neither be in heaven or earth, which is a silly thing to say, but then I got to the part where you said plan changed concerning the 144,000... I just gave up on you.

You better be because your reading the Bible without those anointed with the spirit will continue to lead you into more confused state of mind. I said many things that you can't debunk as i kept backing my words with the Bible. If you are discussing with true Christians you'll learn new things every time. That's why i told you from the beginning that this is not for "dogs" as Jesus said,sacred issues ONLY belongs to the those who are willing to learn not to those worshiping under the umbrella of a wrong organization! Matthew 7:6,26 John 4:22 So next time you see JWs debating on what the GB has taught us,try to listen and learn because it's a debate that someone not passionate and devoted to SPIRITUAL THINGS can't comprehend. God bless you!

TATIME:
Peter is not among yet his name is boldly inscribed as part of the foundations of the holy city. (Revelations 21:14) My friend, come to JWs organization and learn to appreciate the TRUTH when you come across it! Please leave those slanderers behind you because they already know the truth but it's light is too bright for them to remain in it due to their pride,selfishness and ego which is not tolerated amongst the holy ones. 1John 2:19

You are wrong.

1. Peter is not a virgin which is what those 144,000 are.
2. He is dead while the 144,000 are said to be on Earth during the tribulation.
3. Peter will rule with Christ but it doesn't mean he is mentioned as among the 144,000. No verse says or imies that.
4. How does Revelations 21:14 mean Peter is among the 144,000? Where is it written that just as the apostles, the 144,000 also have their names written on the wall of the city?

Revelation 21:14 King James Version (KJV)
And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

Can you now see that you are the one who needs to leave those 8 old heretic men who call themselves GB? They've fed you lies.

alBHAGDADI:
Let's examine some contradictions in the Jehovah's witnesses fake Bible called New World Translation NWT.

The verse below is from a King James Version.


Colossians 1:16-17 King James Version (KJV)
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.


Let's see how the NWT renders it.

Col. 1:16-17 NWT
"because by means of him all [ other] things were created in the heavens and upon the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, no matter whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All [ other] things have been created through him and for him. 17 Also, he is before all [ other] things and by means of him all [ other] things were made to exists."

I believe you noticed the word OTHER which appears four times in parenthesis in the NWT version. JW included it which you can't find in the Greek manuscripts. They included it to match their narrative that Jesus was created by God, then used to create other things. If God created Jesus and Jesus created every other thing, then how do they explain the verse below?

Isaiah, 44:24, "Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb, 'I, the LORD, am the maker of all things, stretching out the heavens by Myself, and spreading out the earth all alone.'"

How come JW say Jesus created all things ever created but he himself was created by God, yet the above verse says God created ALL things? As much as they try to deny Jesus deity, they end up making a fool of themselves.

@tatime @barristter07

Pls address this quote.

LifestyleTonite:
You are wrong.

1. Peter is not a virgin which is what those 144,000 are.
2. He is dead while the 144,000 are said to be on Earth during the tribulation.
3. Peter will rule with Christ but it doesn't mean he is mentioned as among the 144,000. No verse says or imies that.
4. How does Revelations 21:14 mean Peter is among the 144,000? Where is it written that just as the apostles, the 144,000 also have their names written on the wall of the city?

Revelation 21:14 King James Version (KJV)
And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

Can you now see that you are the one who needs to leave those 8 old heretic men who call themselves GB? They've fed you lies.

You're really knowledgeable walahi! So the word Virgins to you means they'll be men who never had sexual relations with women. Hmmmmmmmmm so pathetic. OK what about when the Bible mentioned a "scarlet coloured wild beast" with "seven heads and ten horns" from the "sea" and the "harlot" and the harlot sitting on the beast? Hmmmmmmm Thanks to Jehovah for giving us the GB,i wonder how those Pastors of your Church will be able to interpret all of that!

LifestyleTonite:
@tatime @barristter07

Pls address this quote.

Go and read Proverbs 8:22-30 compared to Genesis 1:26 and John 1:1 Please don't forget to explain what the one speaking in Proverbs meant by saying in verse 22 "The LORD possessed me in the beginning"(KJV) moreover the Bible said He(Jesus) is the image of God (just like Adam) but first born of all creations. Colossians 1:15 Then you can correctly say JWs are wrong with our conclusion that Jesus was CREATED.

#LifestyleTonite ; You agreed that Peter will rule with Christ but not included amongst the 144,000 yet Peter is amongst the FIRST FRUIT, whereas the book of Revelation said 144,000 were seen with the lamb FIRST! It's just the sacred secret of the word VIRGIN that is your problem. Well we'll assist you if you're willing to learn it simply means (they never go back to worship idols after learning the truth, they maintained their stand for the truth till their death) You can find the meaning of promiscuity that the Bible means at Isaiah 54:5 there God explains that those who go about worshiping other gods are no more fit to be called virgins prepared for their Husband (God).Please read and compare with Revelations 20:4

Memorial Celebration

One of the results of the 144,000 doctrine is that most Jehovah's Witnesses do not partake of the bread and wine emblems in memorial of the death of Jesus. Only remnants of the 144,000 are permitted to.

"Since sharing in the bread and wine passed during the Memorial involves all of this, it would obviously be inappropriate for those having an earthly hope to partake. Those with an earthly hope discern that they themselves are not anointed members of the body of Christ, nor are they in the new covenant that Jehovah made with those who will rule with Jesus Christ. Since "the cup" represents the new covenant, only those in the new covenant partake of the emblems. Those looking forward to everlasting life in human perfection on earth under the Kingdom are neither baptized into Jesus' death nor called to rule with him in heaven. Were they to partake of the emblems, it would signify something that is not true with respect to them. Thus, they do not partake, though they do attend the Memorial as respectful observers." Watchtower 2006 Feb 15 p. 24


This is in direct violation of Jesus words, where he commands partaking of the emblems as an importance acceptance of him and gaining everlasting life.

John 6:53-57 "Accordingly Jesus said to them: "Most truly I say to YOU, Unless YOU eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, YOU have no life in yourselves. He that feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has everlasting life, and I shall resurrect him at the last day; for my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. He that feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood remains in union with me, and I in union with him. Just as the living Father sent me forth and I live because of the Father, he also that feeds on me, even that one will live because of me."

1 Corinthians 11:25b-26 "Keep doing this, as often as YOU drink it, in remembrance of me. For as often as YOU eat this loaf and drink this cup, YOU keep proclaiming the death of the Lord, until he arrives."

TATIME:
#LifestyleTonite ; You agreed that Peter will rule with Christ but not included amongst the 144,000 yet Peter is amongst the FIRST FRUIT, whereas the book of Revelation said 144,000 were seen with the lamb FIRST! It's just the sacred secret of the word VIRGIN that is your problem. Well we'll assist you if you're willing to learn it simply means (they never go back to worship idols after learning the truth, they maintained their stand for the truth till their death) You can find the meaning of promiscuity that the Bible means at Isaiah 54:5 there God explains that those who go about worshiping other gods are no more fit to be called virgins prepared for their Husband (God).Please read and compare with Revelations 20:4

Stop saying what the Bible doesn't day. The Bible not only referred to them as virgins, but also it states that they were never defiled by WOMEN. The Bible here is not talking about idol worshiping but literal women.

In your warped ideology of what virgin means biblically, you might as well tell us that the Bible, when it said Mary was a virgin, meant that she never worshiped any other god.

TATIME:
You're really knowledgeable walahi! So the word Virgins to you means they'll be men who never had sexual relations with women. Hmmmmmmmmm so pathetic. OK what about when the Bible mentioned a "scarlet coloured wild beast" with "seven heads and ten horns" from the "sea" and the "harlot" and the harlot sitting on the beast? Hmmmmmmm Thanks to Jehovah for giving us the GB,i wonder how those Pastors of your Church will be able to interpret all of that!

What has this got to do with the points I raised?

Please, we are not talking about scarlet beast here. Address my points one after the other.

TATIME:
Go and read Proverbs 8:22-30 compared to Genesis 1:26 and John 1:1 Please don't forget to explain what the one speaking in Proverbs meant by saying in verse 22 "The LORD possessed me in the beginning"(KJV) moreover the Bible said He(Jesus) is the image of God (just like Adam) but first born of all creations. Colossians 1:15 Then you can correctly say JWs are wrong with our conclusion that Jesus was CREATED.

If you get possessed by an evil spirit, does that mean you were created by that spirit?

Now, you guys don't understand what the Bible means by firstborn. You think it means the first created just like a first child given birth to. Firstborn as used in Colossians stands for preeminence. If not, How come David who was his family's last born is now called firstborn by God?


Psalm 89:20 , 27
"I have found David My servant; with My holy oil I have anointed him . . . I also shall make him My first-born." (NASB).

As you can see, David, who was the last one born in his family, was called the firstborn by God. This is a title of preeminence.

Barristter07:



Very. Good. Hahahaha this is the conclusion I was expecting you to arrive at , KJV erred by translating " Worship " for Created beings like David , Daniel , and Jesus .

All are Created beings . " Homage " as seen in your screenshot expressed it better .

Hope you understand now

Let's go with the word homage.

Now, how many of those whom you say were paid homage to were also referred to as "My Lord and My God" in the process ?

This distinguishes the worship seen in all the cases. Moreover, it isn't mentioned that Thomas worshiped Jesus. But the act and his saying speaks louder then those Daniel and David verses that say they were worshiped. For theirs, it can be said to be homage.

LifestyleTonite:
Stop saying what the Bible doesn't day. The Bible not only referred to them as virgins, but also it states that they were never defiled by WOMEN. The Bible here is not talking about idol worshiping but literal women.

In your warped ideology of what virgin means biblically, you might as well tell us that the Bible, when it said Mary was a virgin, meant that she never worshiped any other god.

Pls prove it with your Bible that Mary "worshipped any other god"

If we are to go by your analogy, the Church is the bride of Christ. Therefore, all those in the Church of Christ are virgins. !

The ancient Israelites were God's special people. Their lack of faith & falling into idolatry was viewed by God as unfaithfulness to HiM, their husbandly owner.

"You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God?" James 4:4.

The personal relationship between Jehovah & His servants is akin to a marriage covenant. Because Jehovah expects exclusive devotion. As long as U are faithful to HIM, U are spotless in his eyes, that is a virgin , so to speak. But if a worshipper of Jehovah for any reason, renounces his faith in God &Jesus Christ , he is tainted, "polluted" as it were. No longer spotless ,like a virgin.

LifestyleTonite:
Let's go with the word homage.

Now, how many of those whom you say were paid homage to were also referred to as "My Lord and My God" in the process ?

This distinguishes the worship seen in all the cases. Moreover, it isn't mentioned that Thomas worshiped Jesus. But the act and his saying speaks louder then those Daniel and David verses that say they were worshiped. For theirs, it can be said to be homage.

That's an assumption U want to hold on to, as basis to justify the Trinity fallacy. Jesus ,Daniel & David ,all of them are sons of God. If theirs is "homage" ,it should also be applied to Christ.

For the sole reason that Jesus did not ascribe worship to himself.

"For it is written: It is Jehovah your God you must worship,& it is TO HIM ALONE YOU MUST RENDER SACRED SERVICE". Matt 4:

Bro, your submission is weak.

LifestyleTonite:
If you get possessed by an evil spirit, does that mean you were created by that spirit?

Now, you guys don't understand what the Bible means by firstborn. You think it means the first created just like a first child given birth to. Firstborn as used in Colossians stands for preeminence. If not, How come David who was his family's last born is now called firstborn by God?


Psalm 89:20 , 27
"I have found David My servant; with My holy oil I have anointed him . . . I also shall make him My first-born." (NASB).

As you can see, David, who was the last one born in his family, was called the firstborn by God. This is a title of preeminence.

"Possessed me" ,"brought me forth"", created me", " formed me", made me " etc ,these words in Prov8:22 were used in different Bible versions.
(https://www.biblestudytools.com).

The last time I checked, "possessed" is synonymous with created.

True ,"possessed" could mean control by demons or supernatural forces. But in the context of Prov 8:22, it means "created" .

Bro, If indeed, it's preeminence, how would those individuals acquire "pre eminence " ? From a higher power superior to them. True or false?

David get Father ? Jesus get Father? Who them born wey no get Father?
With sophistry ,"firstborn " could be twisted & labelled as preeminence..


But this word, "BORN" na strong akobe.
There is absolutely no way to twist its meaning.

Sorry to disappoint U, Jesus Christ was created.
Shalom.

alBHAGDADI:
I wanted to stop reading your post when you said Adam will neither be in heaven or earth, which is a silly thing to say, but then I got to the part where you said plan changed concerning the 144,000... I just gave up on you.

Adam's case is already settled jare. God's judgement, no appeal
Genesis 3:19-24. 5:5.

OneJ:


"Possessed me" ,"brought me forth"", created me", " formed me", made me " etc ,these words in Prov8:22 were used in different Bible versions.
(https://www.biblestudytools.com).

The last time I checked, "possessed" is synonymous with created.

True ,"possessed" could mean control by demons or supernatural forces. But in the context of Prov 8:22, it means "created" .

Bro, If indeed, it's preeminence, how would those individuals acquire "pre eminence " ? From a higher power superior to them. True or false?

David get Father ? Jesus get Father? Who them born wey no get Father?
With sophistry ,"firstborn " could be twisted & labelled as preeminence..


But this word, "BORN" na strong akobe.
There is absolutely no way to twist its meaning.

Sorry to disappoint U, Jesus Christ was created.
Shalom.

I showed you were the word firstborn was also used for David, yet you try to rubbish it even when David is the lastborn of his earthly family.

David labeled as firstborn is of preeminence, not that he was the first child to be born. It simply means he is preeminent over all things in Israel. He was a type of Christ. So when such word is used to describe Christ, it simply means he is preeminent over all things.

In referring to Jesus as the firstborn of the dead, John is drawing words and imagery from Psalms 89:1 which celebrates the kingship of David and his line with phrases like “the firstborn,” “the highest of the kings of the earth,” and the idea that the Messiah’s throne will be a “faithful witness in the sky.” Calling Jesus firstborn portrays him as the heir of David, exalted and lifted up as the representative of his people.

And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth ( Revelation 1:5 ).

Jesus was the first person in time to come back from the dead never to die again. In addition, He is preeminent over the dead and death itself. Jesus said that He has the keys, or the authority, to death and Hades.

OneJ:


That's an assumption U want to hold on to, as basis to justify the Trinity fallacy. Jesus ,Daniel & David ,all of them are sons of God. If theirs is "homage" ,it should also be applied to Christ.

For the sole reason that Jesus did not ascribe worship to himself.

"For it is written: It is Jehovah your God you must worship,& it is TO HIM ALONE YOU MUST RENDER SACRED SERVICE". Matt 4:

Bro, your submission is weak.

On one hand, you say Daniel and David were worshiped. On the other, you say it is only God that should be worship. Doesn't that mean that those people who accepted worship have sinned against God?

Jesus said all that the father has are mine. The angels and Humans who worship God are his, therefore he deserves worship. Moreover, God even commanded the angels to worship him. The elders in heaven worshiped him.

OneJ:


Pls prove it with your Bible that Mary "worshipped any other god"

If we are to go by your analogy, the Church is the bride of Christ. Therefore, all those in the Church of Christ are virgins. !

The ancient Israelites were God's special people. Their lack of faith & falling into idolatry was viewed by God as unfaithfulness to HiM, their husbandly owner.

"You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God?" James 4:4.

The personal relationship between Jehovah & His servants is akin to a marriage covenant. Because Jehovah expects exclusive devotion. As long as U are faithful to HIM, U are spotless in his eyes, that is a virgin , so to speak. But if a worshipper of Jehovah for any reason, renounces his faith in God &Jesus Christ , he is tainted, "polluted" as it were. No longer spotless ,like a virgin.

What you are saying now is that the word virgin is used to say someone is literally a virgin and also hasn't worshiped another god. In the case if Mary, she was a virgin and didn't worship another god.

Shouldn't it also means that those 144,000 will be literal virgins who also haven't wotshiped another god? I'm surprised that you want to ignore the literal part and go with the worship part so as to include Peter in the 144,000. I'm more surprised that you ignored the Bible passage wHuch mentioned that the 144,000 are people still on earth during the tribulation, whereas Peter is dead.

LifestyleTonite:
What you are saying now is that the word virgin is used to say someone is literally a virgin and also hasn't worshiped another god. In the case if Mary, she was a virgin and didn't worship another god.

Shouldn't it also means that those 144,000 will be literal virgins who also haven't wotshiped another god? I'm surprised that you want to ignore the literal part and go with the worship part so as to include Peter in the 144,000. I'm more surprised that you ignored the Bible passage wHuch mentioned that the 144,000 are people still on earth during the tribulation, whereas Peter is dead.

Back in our old school days the mathes teacher will say "solve this equation" then every student will pick up their pens to do the workings to prove what answers each student presents as CORRECT. But when it comes to God's words you people want to say "Nobody can explain it" simply because you and your Pastors can't. The meaning of the sacred secret word "VIRGIN" i have interpreted to you my friend so it's left to you whether to meditate and do more research on it, no body can force the meaning into your head. There has never been a time when Jews agreed that their men should stop marrying so that they'll remain as virgins throughout their lifetime,neither has there been anyone born without sin as spotless (blemish) nor lived all their lives in the flesh without any mistakes. For you to know that there are so many words in the Bible book of Revelations and Daniel that you can NEVER know the MEANING unless you're told by someone given the spirit of discernment, i pointed to some other SACRED SECRETS to make you understand that they're not to be taken LITERALLY but you're arguing. Please suit yourself as you have concluded that 144,000 Israelites will go and RULE with Jesus in heaven and they MUST be VIRGINS so that most of Jesus' disciples are not inclusive in the number, yet Jesus pointedly told His 12 Apostles that they're the ones to sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel. Luke 22:30 Where will those 144,000 VIRGINS come from? You can't explain but insisting they MUST be LITERAL VIRGINS since the Bible book of Revelations said VIRGINS.

TATIME:
Back in our old school days the mathes teacher will say "solve this equation" then every student will pick up their pens to do the workings to prove what answers each student presents as CORRECT. But when it comes to God's words you people want to say "Nobody can explain it" simply because you and your Pastors can't. The meaning of the sacred secret word "VIRGIN" i have interpreted to you my friend so it's left to you whether to meditate and do more research on it, no body can force the meaning into your head. There has never been a time when Jews agreed that their men should stop marrying so that they'll remain as virgins throughout their lifetime,neither has there been anyone born without sin as spotless (blemish) nor lived all their lives in the flesh without any mistakes. For you to know that there are so many words in the Bible book of Revelations and Daniel that you can NEVER know the MEANING unless you're told by someone given the spirit of discernment, i pointed to some other SACRED SECRETS to make you understand that they're not to be taken LITERALLY but you're arguing. Please suit yourself as you have concluded that 144,000 Israelites will go and RULE with Jesus in heaven and they MUST be VIRGINS so that most of Jesus' disciples are not inclusive in the number, yet Jesus pointedly told His 12 Apostles that they're the ones to sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel. Luke 22:30 Where will those 144,000 VIRGINS come from? You can't explain but insisting they MUST be LITERAL VIRGINS since the Bible book of Revelations said VIRGINS.

You just compiled a load of crap with no clear head.

To you, it is only the 8 old men in GB with failed prophesies that have the spirit of discernment to understand the bible.

You are the one forcing the word virgin as used in revelations to conform to your JW theology.

I showed you that the 144,000 are people who will be o. earth during the tribulation, yet you want to smuggle Peter who is dead into their midst. Those 144,000 aren't even people alive now or ever lived. They are to be during the tribulation.

LifestyleTonite:
What you are saying now is that the word virgin is used to say someone is literally a virgin and also hasn't worshiped another god. In the case if Mary, she was a virgin and didn't worship another god.

Shouldn't it also means that those 144,000 will be literal virgins who also haven't wotshiped another god? I'm surprised that you want to ignore the literal part and go with the worship part so as to include Peter in the 144,000. I'm more surprised that you ignored the Bible passage wHuch mentioned that the 144,000 are people still on earth during the tribulation, whereas Peter is dead.

Hmmmmmmmm when you're reading your Bible try to pray along with meditation my friend. Jesus is the one given most of those prophecies to John in Revelations Jehovah only spoke few times to confirm what HIS only begotten son says. Remember Jesus PRIMARILY told His Apostle that they're going to be His witnesses "to the most distant part of the earth" but none of them came to Nigeria. So what does He meant by saying that? It simply means Born Again Christians like these faithful Jews will continue the work so that it reaches everywhere. The same thing goes with the 144,000,some of them will still be alive on earth during the great tribulation. That's the secret!

LifestyleTonite:
You just compiled a load of crap with no clear head.

To you, it is only the 8 old men in GB with failed prophesies that have the spirit of discernment to understand the bible.

You are the one forcing the word virgin as used in revelations to conform to your JW theology.

I showed you that the 144,000 are people who will be o. earth during the tribulation, yet you want to smuggle Peter who is dead into their midst. Those 144,000 aren't even people alive now or ever lived. They are to be during the tribulation.

Jesus never said "all of them will be on earth" but "they will be" which is just as He initially told 500 of His disciples that "they will be His witnesses to the most distant part of the earth" Act 1:8 Please my friend it's clear that none of those whom Jesus spoke to stepped his foot in Nigeria!

TATIME:
Hmmmmmmmm when you're reading your Bible try to pray along with meditation my friend. Jesus is the one given most of those prophecies to John in Revelations Jehovah only spoke few times to confirm what HIS only begotten son says. Remember Jesus PRIMARILY told His Apostle that they're going to be His witnesses "to the most distant part of the earth" but none of them came to Nigeria. So what does He meant by saying that? It simply means Born Again Christians like these faithful Jews will continue the work so that it reaches everywhere. The same thing goes with the 144,000,some of them will still be alive on earth during the great tribulation. That's the secret!

I repeat, Peter is not among the 144,000 because he is dead while they will be alive on earth. The Bible says they will be sealed by angels during the tribulation. The sealed people aren't people who existed in the past, are existing now, neither will they include dead people or Peter. Your anger is that they don't include some brainwashed elders in JW who tHink they belong to the number. They don't because they are not of any Israelite tribe. And don't tell me about spiritual Israel cos I know that already.. That's what we Christians are, and we are not tribes.


Revelation 7

Revelation 7 King James Version (KJV)
And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nephthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

#LifestyleTonite; I really appreciate your inquisitive attitude my friend and i pray that you continue like this because it is not easy to find the truth. Many of us not born as JWs fought a lot of battles with families and friends who keep insisting that we must remain with them in their ignorance of Bible understanding! So please keep it up but don't forget that you will start sinning against the holy spirit when your heart is telling you "could this people be the true Christians?" And you keep arguing just because of the crowd criticising them. Exodus 23:2 God bless you!

LifestyleTonite:
What you are saying now is that the word virgin is used to say someone is literally a virgin and also hasn't worshiped another god. In the case if Mary, she was a virgin and didn't worship another god.

Shouldn't it also means that those 144,000 will be literal virgins who also haven't wotshiped another god? I'm surprised that you want to ignore the literal part and go with the worship part so as to include Peter in the 144,000. I'm more surprised that you ignored the Bible passage wHuch mentioned that the 144,000 are people still on earth during the tribulation, whereas Peter is dead.

Infact ehn.. I'm just shaking my head here
So in essence, he's trying to say Mary wasn't a virgin physically.
Something that was stated that the 144,000 were not defiled by women yet they give it another twist.
Thats the same way the GB took Jesus's parable of the faithful and discreet slave and applied it to themselves. They just do things to suite their agenda.
Same way they came up with the 607/1914 doctrine. Scientists and other researchers claim the real date is 587 but since the GB knows more than everyother Christians and scientists, they claimed they are right.

LifestyleTonite:
I repeat, Peter is not among the 144,000 because he is dead while they will be alive on earth. The Bible says they will be sealed by angels during the tribulation. The sealed people aren't people who existed in the past, are existing now, neither will they include dead people or Peter. Your anger is that they don't include some brainwashed elders in JW who tHink they belong to the number. They don't because they are not of any Israelite tribe. And don't tell me about spiritual Israel cos I know that already.. That's what we Christians are, and we are not tribes.


Revelation 7

Revelation 7 King James Version (KJV)
And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nephthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

Yes you're quoting the Bible but let's go deeper into the scriptures to find the meaning. The word "SEAL" shouldn't be a problem, it simply means the NUMBER will stop COUNTING as in that figure will not continue because they must have been 144,000 during the great tribulation. The number started counting from the day of Pentecost until our time but it's during the great tribulation (which will soon begin) the NUMBER as in FIGURE will have COMPLETED. As for the twelve tribes mentioned in Revelations 7:5-8,that is "NOT THE ORIGINAL TWELVE TRIBES OF ISRAEL" you can compare with the ORIGINAL names of those twelve. Exodus 1:2-5 It's because that tribal arrangement is also not to be taken LITERALLY!

search4truth:

Infact ehn.. I'm just shaking my head here
So in essence, he's trying to say Mary wasn't a virgin physically.
Something that was stated that the 144,000 were not defiled by women yet they give it another twist.
Thats the same way the GB took Jesus's parable of the faithful and discreet slave and applied it to themselves. They just do things to suite their agenda.
Same way they came up with the 607/1914 doctrine. Scientists and other researchers claim the real date is 587 but since the GB knows more than everyother Christians and scientists, they claimed they are right.

You're right jare no problem, just that you can't figure out the religious GROUP that a honest hearted person interested in Christ will ASSOCIATE with!

TATIME:
Jesus never said "all of them will be on earth" but "they will be" which is just as He initially told 500 of His disciples that "they will be His witnesses to the most distant part of the earth" Act 1:8 Please my friend it's clear that none of those whom Jesus spoke to stepped his foot in Nigeria!

Jesus was speaking to His disciples telling them that they will be his witness to the ends of the earth. His disciples aren't only the 12. The 12 were special whom he named apostles. He had other disciples too.

The 12 were his apostles, but he had other disciples

Luke 6:13
And when day came, He called His disciples to Him and chose twelve of them, whom He also named as apostles:

His followers today are also his disciples. Christians are his disciples. You claim that the disciples never set foot in. Nigeria. You made this claim by quoting acts 1:8 but forgot that it wasn't only the 12 the holy spirit is promised. It is promised to every beLiever. Jesus promised to send the holy spirit to fulfill God's word which says He will pour out His spirit on all flesh. It's even in acts 1:17. It doesn't say it will only be on the 12 alone. So, this means others could have set foot in Africa. Some people filled with the holy spirit brought Christianity to Africa and Nigeria, until you JW came with your perversion.


Acts 1:8 King James Version (KJV)
But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.